My theory for why everyone's so steamed.

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My theory for why everyone's so steamed.
Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:08 pm
  • Over the last 3 years, our overall strategy was to take players with upside/tremendous physical tools and coach them up to success with the whole competition, swagger, etc.
    So even though a bunch of people on here did not like the Michael pick, they were still able to digest it. The guy owned the combine.

    But... from the shadows and depths of the dark and unruly Penn state... comes an "effort" guy.
    High floor?
    Low ceiling?
    We've been conditioned to fear anything that looks or smells like a Ruskell pick. And for good reason.

    But that's the idea of conditioning.

    It's subconscious. We've learned to trust PC & JS. But sometimes our body becomes aversive to what had made us sick, :pukeface: and from where we stand, this guy is not a high upside/tremendous-physical-tools guy.

    And another thing.
    Somehow, with Hill, we are trying to imagine him as a physical freak because he was drafted by our own GM, but it's just not working. Cognitive dissonance (thinking of two opposing things at once) is uncomfortable.

    And yes. I'm a psych major. And I'm bored. Let's go back to drafting some more big nasties on day 3.
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  • It's not the Michael pick that steams me, I can live with it; I just don't get the Jordan Hill pick. I should trust in JS&PC by now, but this one just reaks to me at the moment, I don't like it at all.

    More than likely I'll be eating crow sometime about it probably, who knows, not I
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  • This board is always entertaining...

    We will never have 100% agreement, which is a good thing. Even now, I guarantee you there are posters who haven't bought into Pete, John, Russell Wilson, etc.

    Just the way it rolls.

    I nitpicked everything Ruskell and Mora did. I've learned to embrace the idea that Pete and John are operating on a much higher level than I can speculate.
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  • City Of Reign wrote:It's not the Michael pick that steams me, I can live with it; I just don't get the Jordan Hill pick. I should trust in JS&PC by now, but this one just reaks to me at the moment, I don't like it at all.

    More than likely I'll be eating crow sometime about it probably, who knows, not I

    Exactly. It reeks to me also. It's the conditioning. We were all expecting a workout warrior with bad tape or character issues. Instead we got an "effort guy." I think this was the first "effort guy" we ever drafted.

    Although he seems like good competition for Bennet, methinks.
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  • I'm not steamed at all. I think they made 2 great picks
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  • I think part of the problem is that PC & JS have had such success over the last three drafts that we're expecting every pick they make to be a difference maker. The draft is bit like batting in baseball, even the best only succeed 1/3 of the time.
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  • No way I'm going to complain til I see the kids play.
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  • PC and JS have earned the benefit of the doubt with the draft. Have there been some misses? Of course. But look at the impact players they have chosen. I don't need to waste your time naming them. We know.

    Do i get the picks on the surface? Not really. But i'll hear an interview or two explaining the rational at the end of the draft and be excited again until camps start.

    In PC/JC I trust.
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  • I think NFL fans just love the draft, after reading every scouting report they can put their hands on. All the video highlight film they can find and just the dedicated art it has become to folks. It is like Fantasy Football but as a GM. People figure they have followed the team, so they have a good feel for the strengths and weaknesses of the team. They build their top 100, put in all kind of time doing Mock drafts.

    Then the draft comes and a big curveball gets thrown or a pick that doesn't seem to be of much worth and a huge disappointment follows. I wouldn't try to analyze the behavior of the NFL fan. It's like trying to understand what is love.

    Just give the folks their space unless they pick up sharp objects or start threatening you. Then take dead aim.
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  • I don't know remotely enough to judge the Jordan pick and I wouldn't judge the Michael pick either as I don't really follow the draft that closely. But I heard him talking on KJR tonight and my BS meter went off big time. Knowing nothing about him, I sensed this guy has serious maturity issues and probably doesn't have what it takes to make it in the NFL. Then I came home, read up on him, and wasn't at all surprised to hear that he's a headcase.

    But Pete isn't a normal head coach either. So if anyone can get through to a BS jive turkey like Michael, it would be Pete. I hear Michael has the physical talent. Let's see if he can keep his head in the game and be a professional.
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  • Anyone who is steamed over the picks needs to get over themselves. You really think you have a right to be angry because the team didn't pick who YOU wanted? They sure didn't get worse today. I have no doubt that the Hawks have very specific plans in mind for these guys.

    Enjoy the show, we are one of the strongest rosters in the league.
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  • Absolutely,

    If you hate the Christine Michael pick, its like you're bashing on Marshawn Lynch.

    If you hate the Jordan Hill pick, its like you're almost hating on Brandon Mebane.

    Also, what people don't get about Hill is, he had knee surgery in Nov, added 10 pounds on his college playing weight, wasn't fully 100% going into workouts but his best numbers at the Combine & Pro Day have him on par with the likes if not better than Sharif Floyd, Sylvester Williams, and Kawaan Short.

    28 bench reps, 30 inch vert, 9’03 broad jump, 4.97 40-yard dash, 1.76 10-yard dash, 4.51 yard shuttle, 7.49 3-cone drill.

    Whether the doubters think so or not, Quinn got a player he can work with as a quick twitch gap penetrating 3 tech versatile enough to also take reps at 1 and 5 tech, and the fans get a player who loves football the right way and plays his heart out.

    Just because Hill's not 6'4, 320 pounds doesn't mean he isn't any good.
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  • Curly Culp, Chartric Darby, size

    At 6'1" and 265 lbs, Culp

    Curley Culp was a tremendous athlete,” Pro Football Hall of Fame QB, Len Dawson, said. “He had such strength and quickness. I remember Jack Rudnay used to say that every center in the league should have to go against Curley in order to know what it’s like to go against the very best.”


    The read up on Culp sounds a lot like Hill, Quinn made Bryant the Monster he is also by switching him, with Hills motor and athletic ability I think they have a use that may be out of the box for this kid.
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  • FlyingGreg wrote:This board is always entertaining...

    We will never have 100% agreement, which is a good thing. Even now, I guarantee you there are posters who haven't bought into Pete, John, Russell Wilson, etc.

    Just the way it rolls.

    I nitpicked everything Ruskell and Mora did. I've learned to embrace the idea that Pete and John are operating on a much higher level than I can speculate.


    Yeap. Hard to beat this board for entertainment value during the draft. :th2thumbs:
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  • I'm so glad that we have such a high percentage of our community occupied by rational, informed, and humble fans. I just don't see how any one is crying or angry at this Draft class - BY THE WAY IT'S NOT OVER YET. Enjoy day 3, take notes and prepare to see a few of those players turn into gems.

    Try to have some faith in the people that have built our superbowl favorite, highest amount of pro-bowl drafted players over the last 4 years accomplishing, incredibly exciting and regional pride enhancing team that we all love...
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  • AbsolutNET wrote:Anyone who is steamed over the picks needs to get over themselves. You really think you have a right to be angry because the team didn't pick who YOU wanted? They sure didn't get worse today. I have no doubt that the Hawks have very specific plans in mind for these guys.

    Enjoy the show, we are one of the strongest rosters in the league.


    I was trying to find a thread to post something along these lines but you absolutely nailed it Absolut. This sums up how I'm feeling entirely.

    The Outfield wrote:No way I'm going to complain til I see the kids play.


    And this does too. I love all of you, you sick bastards, I really do. I love all the mocks and the banter and the buildup before the draft. It's one of my favorite things in all honesty. But once the draft starts and actual Seahawks picks are being made, there's no way I'm trusting any one of you more than John Schneider or Pete Carroll. I love you guys, I swear, but there's just no f'n way!

    I hope to hell that Jordan Hill turns into a beast. Seems like the ultimate "it's the size of the fight in the dog" type football player. A freakin warrior. I love the fact that he was an afterthought in college recruiting as well. You want to talk about a chip on the shoulder? This guy's is the size of Olmec from Legends of the Hidden Temple, no doubt.

    Ahhh, this is why I love late April. Because somehow, unimaginably despite their track record, Pete and John find some way to alienate themselves from the fanbase for even just a few brief days and have people freaking out about the potential of the new draft class. Seriously, I love it. Let's me know that Training Camp's just around the corner.
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  • oasis wrote:Cognitive dissonance (thinking of two opposing things at once) is uncomfortable.

    And yes. I'm a psych major. And I'm bored.

    I was a psych major. Graduated with a BS in Counseling Psych, Magna cum Laude.

    GIVE IT UP NOW WHILE YOU STILL HAVE ANY COMMON SENSE LEFT! Psychology is treated as a science -- but anything with six or eight contradictory, mutually exclusive theories that are all considered equally valid is not science. Talk about cognitive dissonance!


    Oh yeah, the topic. I'm not steamed, I'm stoked.
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  • I actually like both pics very much. Lynch is a top 3 back in this league, but we've seen what happens when he's out. Turbo is a good back right now, but a whole lot of upside still, but if Lynch goes down I don't want to lose much so we have two to back up Lynch. We NEED to run the ball. Our balance sets us apart and makes Wilson all the more deadly off play action. That's our identity: Balance. The idea is to become greatly proficient in both aspects to...at least come close to a guarantee offensive production no matter which defensive strength you're facing.

    With Hill you have a very active leverage player who has violent hands against the block. He's in the backfield a lot. Size, frame, blah, blah, blah...this kid is a football player. As previously stated, this is a player not unlike Mike Patterson before when he was young before he got too fat, which is essentially a poor man's Mebane in a draft with not a lot of high end talent (like Christine Michael). I think this guy has better usage of hands and extension than Patterson ever did though and I've seen a lot of Mike Patterson.
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  • I liked the Christine Pick more than any pick last year that wasn't Russell Wilson. People that are bashing this pick misunderstand Seattle's long term outlook at RB while failing to value Michael's intense upside. When the haters see this guy in pads, they won't be hating for long. Trust me. Remember how pissed we were when Seattle dealt Ahman Green? Because Christine Michael is a virtual Ahman Green clone. I'd say he did alright for himself.

    I feel confident that Seattle just drafted one of the core pieces a championship team today.

    Some people have NO IDEA how much more explosive this team has gotten this offseason, and the Seahawks still have 10 picks left in a loaded day 3. Michael is as explosive as it gets at RB. Ditto Harvin at WR. We added some major spark on defense too. This was already an explosive team. This is a freaking scary team, and it just got downright disgusting with Michael added, IMO.
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  • kearly wrote:I liked the Christine Pick more than any pick last year that wasn't Russell Wilson. People that are bashing this pick misunderstand Seattle's long term outlook at RB while failing to value Michael's intense upside. When the haters see this guy in pads, they won't be hating for long. Trust me. I feel confident that Seattle just drafted one of the core pieces a championship team today.

    Some people have NO IDEA how much more explosive this team has gotten this offseason, and the Seahawks still have 10 picks left in a loaded day 3. Michael is as explosive as it gets at RB. Ditto Harvin at WR. We added some major spark on defense too. This was already an explosive team. This is a freaking scary team, and it just got downright disgusting with Michael added, IMO.

    Word.
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  • Every draft is the same thing. So hilarious. Every single fan and analyst lose their mind over Seattle's picks. Myself included.

    A RB as our first pick? WTF?? The dude has a woman's name! Another midget in the 3rd round, but at least he's at a position we need: DT. What next?

    I'm actually chuckling as I write this. Seriously, it's going to be hilarious tomorrow, watching the Seahawks pick some random no-namer at a position where we have no "need", seemingly ignoring positions we think they need to improve. Or maybe it'll be some guy with a day-old DUI. Who knows.

    All I know is, I fully expect at least one of these picks to be playing in the next Pro-Bowl. Some how, some way, it's going to happen. And I'll still be cracking up at the absurd beauty of it all.
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  • Anyone remember last year, when our RB corps was so thin in the pre-season, that we had a WR at RB?

    That won't happen again. WE were lucky that Lynch didn't get hurt last year. In fact, I thought Lych was hurt as the season ended, thus all the fumbles.
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  • kearly wrote:I liked the Christine Pick more than any pick last year that wasn't Russell Wilson. People that are bashing this pick misunderstand Seattle's long term outlook at RB while failing to value Michael's intense upside. When the haters see this guy in pads, they won't be hating for long. Trust me. Remember how pissed we were when Seattle dealt Ahman Green? Because Christine Michael is a virtual Ahman Green clone. I'd say he did alright for himself.

    I feel confident that Seattle just drafted one of the core pieces a championship team today.

    Some people have NO IDEA how much more explosive this team has gotten this offseason, and the Seahawks still have 10 picks left in a loaded day 3. Michael is as explosive as it gets at RB. Ditto Harvin at WR. We added some major spark on defense too. This was already an explosive team. This is a freaking scary team, and it just got downright disgusting with Michael added, IMO.


    This should shut up anyone that is steamed. I on the other hand, am Gacked.

    And yes, remember Lynch sitting out practices routinely last year, and then the costly fumbles? I think we just shored up a huge potential problem. The Hill pick is one I don't know much about.
    Last edited by Largent80 on Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Yeah, I actually love the Michael pick. It would be cool to see Michael take the majority of the carries in the first half to open up the pass game with long runs, and then in the second half, when the opposing defense is getting gassed, we pound them -- beast mode style, into submission.
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  • The highlights of Michael Christine are impressive. If he can help with punt returns or kick off returns, I think he would be great pick up.
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  • I also just completely changed my mind on the Jordan Hill pick. Because I think I may have grasped what was in the minds of PC & JS:

    Our CB's like to jam, so a one-gap guy can completely disrupt backfield stuff before the WR can get out of the jam. And if we still need run-stuffers, I'm sure there are plenty left over -- why draft one now when we can get it later?

    I think people will warm up to both of these picks sooner or later.
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  • Its just a matter of time before Marshawn gets a high ankle or something when someone drips off the 5 guys trying to get him on the ground. The thing you got to like about Michael is that there is a ton of mileage left on the tires and he is yet to reach the peak of his abilities. Remember Lynch has battled back issues and other dings the past couple seasons also. I didn't see the need quite as much a few days ago but the more I think about it, the more I love this pick.

    I really liked Hill pre-draft and think he is gonna become a very good player in the inside of our defense. Didn't really think he fit what we were looking for but I like him as a player none the less. Time will tell?
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  • Spounge84 wrote:I think part of the problem is that PC & JS have had such success over the last three drafts that we're expecting every pick they make to be a difference maker. The draft is bit like batting in baseball, even the best only succeed 1/3 of the time.


    Are you saying that even without letting the new rookies prove themselves or knowing what the other ten picks look like that JS/PC struck out?
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  • For a team that runs the ball more than any other team in the league, the Michael pick makes all the sense in the world. They need to be able to go three deep at the RB position and, if nothing else, Michael should be a significant upgrade over Leon Washington as the third back. He and Turbin will be competing in training camp for the role as the primary #2 back and we'll see who comes out on top.
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  • My theory for why a minority are so steamed. There I fixed it for ya!
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  • For the record I love the picks. And I will love the picks today. We could have struck out this draft completely and we'd still have the best roster in the league. Anything we get in the draft is gravy.
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  • We added two pretty stellar talents to our offense in the first 2 rounds, and a guy that can be a solid role player on our DL, where we needed it. Those are 3 good looking picks, imo. Sure the RB was a head scratcher to begin with, but then we realized we aren't used to lacking a glaring hole on our roster. We actually had the luxury to draft for talent for once! Its not like we are desperate for starters going into the draft, so we can afford to draft guys based on talent. Feels good
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  • I think is standard to always be pissed with a least a few picks. And if we have learned anything Pete and John like to surprise us.

    I was surprised at first about drafting a running back, but I understand the pick. It's valuable depth, especially with the current shelf life of running backs and allows us to continue to pound the ball.

    I am not sure if Jordan Hill was the best player available, but we need DL depth and our DC has been a DL coach.
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  • I like both the Michael and Hill picks as well. Seem to fit the new mold nicely.

    Like Kip said, the team is getting "disgusting". Personally, I like the word "filthy".
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  • The only thing that bothers me about the first two picks is that Prisco liked them. That can't be good!
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  • Effort? Isn't Russell Wilson a "high effort" kind of guy?

    ;)
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  • Steamed is probably the wrong word, maybe the best word is puzzled.

    Take C Mike, I think the larger issue is not whether or not he is a great back, but how the team is set long term.

    We have a lot of players now that are essentially one year deals. We also have several players getting near the end of their contracts.

    The only way you can re-sign key pieces for what they are worth is to pay other people less than they are worth. That is the nature of the cap when you have outstanding players in many positions.

    One of the easiest ways to do this is to get performance from your rookies who are stuck in a rookie payscale vs a veteran.

    So even with depth at certain positions (DE & WR), you still could have used a guy there.

    Combine that with what looks like a screaming need at LB still (we look horrifically thin there), so I was a little shocked we didn't just get the guy that Baltimore picked up (Brown?).

    That said, they earned the right to take a swing for the fences if that was the goal here. They won't succeed with every choice, nobody does - but their process seems to work and you have to go with the hot hand until it stops working.

    Regardless, imagine if we had picked a WR with our 1st round pick, then I imagine people would be freaking out less about the RB in the 2nd round. Since we did pick a WR for our 1st, I think it is more that the RB was the first player picked this year that we could latch onto.

    But what does it tell us if we spend the 1st pick on (not 1st round but first) on a luxury pick when we clearly have needs? Well it tells us that perhaps our talent eval people don't see big contributors coming from the pool. Basically, it means nobody seems to be sticking out. That is clearly bad when we have a lot of later round picks in what is likely a crap draft, but it might also be good considering our key rival also has a lot of picks and has some significant depth issues they have to address to hold us off.

    My take is that people are upset because they believe this too. They see our needs, know we probably won't address them in this draft and understandably are bothered by that.
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  • I LOVE both of these picks. I love them. Kearly's predraft write ups had me studying the RB and by draft day I was texting my brother saying I hoped we take him. Lynch is one of my all-time favorite NFL players and I was hoping for Turbin last year prior to the draft. So why would I want a third running back at this stage in the draft?

    It puts ALL durability concerns to rest at the position for the coming year. We can run out THREE very very talented runners. I can't think of a precedent for it.

    Re: the DT. I remain worried about the behind and alongside Mebane. We can be dominant vs the run when Mebane is fresh. But the more I think about it, the more I think our offense is so explosive that we might not need a bevy of runstoppers.

    Pass rushing DTs inquire within.
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  • Well we are conditioned for the Hawks to take wild non media conventional picks that get poo poo'ed by the media. That is not happening this year so everyone (in hawkville) is in shock.

    As example Pete Prisco has given us a b+ for each of our picks. Hawk fans are not used to this. I think the picks have all been solid so far.
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  • Basis4day wrote:PC and JS have earned the benefit of the doubt with the draft. Have there been some misses? Of course. But look at the impact players they have chosen. I don't need to waste your time naming them. We know.

    Do i get the picks on the surface? Not really. But i'll hear an interview or two explaining the rational at the end of the draft and be excited again until camps start.

    In PC/JC I trust.



    that and we "drafted" Percy Harvin in the first
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  • kearly wrote:I liked the Christine Pick more than any pick last year that wasn't Russell Wilson. People that are bashing this pick misunderstand Seattle's long term outlook at RB while failing to value Michael's intense upside. When the haters see this guy in pads, they won't be hating for long. Trust me. Remember how pissed we were when Seattle dealt Ahman Green? Because Christine Michael is a virtual Ahman Green clone. I'd say he did alright for himself.

    I feel confident that Seattle just drafted one of the core pieces a championship team today.

    Some people have NO IDEA how much more explosive this team has gotten this offseason, and the Seahawks still have 10 picks left in a loaded day 3. Michael is as explosive as it gets at RB. Ditto Harvin at WR. We added some major spark on defense too. This was already an explosive team. This is a freaking scary team, and it just got downright disgusting with Michael added, IMO.



    HOLY HAND GRENADE IM SO EXCITED I ACCIDENTALLY CAPSLOCK

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    But seriously...I love this front office with a passion. I think they have not only built a championship defense, but now a championship offense for sure. Such a dynamic team.
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  • I can think of a couple of guys who didn't pop off the charts initially when Pete and his staff were recruiting at USC. They were both considered too small, etc. But both guys had that non-stop motor, that will to outwork other guys. One worked his way into a scholarship out of high school by showing in camps that he could get the job done in spite of his size. The other walked on and worked his way up.

    Those two guys are Ryan Kalil and Clay Matthews III.

    Let's not forget that an awful lot of people thought a certain QB was too short, as well.

    Athletic measurables are only part of the picture.
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  • I liked our draft . They filled the needs we had at DT Jordan Hill looks like a slightly smaller but quicker Kawaan Short , i'll take that. Williams is a huge space eating run stuffer that can collapse the pocket i'll take that to. And they may have gotten the steal of this draft with Michael. I really like the physical CB and WR they added as well.
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  • Loved all of the media phone interviews after the picks were made
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  • I'm not steamed, but I'm not overly excited. I am sure that once we get to camp and the preseason, I'll get what these guys are all about, just as happened last year with Wilson, Turbin, Wagner, and Lane, all guys who knocked me out as I saw them play and progress.

    I do really like the Jesse Williams pick, and if Michael can stay healthy, I think a Michael/Turbin backfield for our future is a great one. After that, I need to see everyone play. Believe me, I won't be shocked if a guy like Jordan Hill ends up making a Brandon Mebane cut possible next year, for one example.
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  • sc85sis wrote:I can think of a couple of guys who didn't pop off the charts initially when Pete and his staff were recruiting at USC. They were both considered too small, etc. But both guys had that non-stop motor, that will to outwork other guys. One worked his way into a scholarship out of high school by showing in camps that he could get the job done in spite of his size. The other walked on and worked his way up.

    Those two guys are Ryan Kalil and Clay Matthews III.

    Let's not forget that an awful lot of people thought a certain QB was too short, as well.

    Athletic measurables are only part of the picture.


    Kalil and Matthews are incredible athletes with strong NFL bloodlines. Not the best examples, IMO. I think a much better USC example would be Brian Cushing. He was skinny as a rail when he arrived at USC, IIRC he was a walkon too. Sure, he roided up like a madman, but he's a great example of a guy with heart that turned himself into an NFL star at an athleticism dependent position.
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  • If the draft grade thread is any indication, people aren't steamed. Most seem to feel the draft was at least average with or without including Harvin. Dissonance may play a part, particularly like the OP is suggesting with our 3rd round selection, but I'd have to guess the biggest contributor to the negativity is the fallout from heightened expectations. Our FO was basically clairvoyant for the first three rounds last year and just about any selections we made this year weren't going to top that, particularly for our short-term speculation and gratification (which we've become much less patient with since the SB expectations emerged).
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  • AbsolutNET wrote:Anyone who is steamed over the picks needs to get over themselves. You really think you have a right to be angry because the team didn't pick who YOU wanted?


    Thats like 90% of the draft day forum.... lol
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  • If I had to attach a grade to the Seahawks draft

    c-

    I'm not an expert, however, and I'll trust the administration is trying to do what they can to make the team better.

    I think they drafted a lot for depth.

    Don't really have anything good to say after that.
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