Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?

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Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:12 pm
  • I ask this before we start the 2nd round because there's a chance we may draft a WR today. Picking a WR when we already have fairly good depth at the position might raise questions on the longevity of some of these players as Seahawks. Obviously, the 2013 season will probably give us a clearer indication of what we will do with our guys.

    Personally, I hope we restructure Sidney Rice and re-sign/extend Golden Tate. Sid can catch every damn ball within 10 feet of him, and always seems to put his body on the line. You can tell he has a lot more pride in being a Hawk this year than he did last year. Tate has been one of the most entertaining players I have ever seen on the team. He has developed a whole lot of valuable chemistry with Dangeruss on and off the field.

    A lot of you think today we will draft a future replacement for one them. Who do you think will eventually be replaced and what scenario do you hope for?
    Last edited by Hawken-Dazs on Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:13 pm
  • I hope Sidney and Percy become BFFs, and Sidney reworks his deal considerably to stay here.

    Frankly, I'm torn between which one I'd rather keep. They're different kinds of receivers. I want both. :(
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:24 pm
  • Rice is going to have to restructure if he wants to stay
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:27 pm
  • to keep them both Rice will have to take a considerable pay cut, and Tate will have to sign for well below market value (if he plays like he did last year, anyway).
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:27 pm
  • Miller's contract will also be in discussion.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:34 pm
  • Good discussion for next offseason I think.. I think we are going to draft a WR in the 2/3rd in order to plan for the inevitable departure of one of those two guys next season.. Tate via UFA or Rice as a cap casualty.

    Would not be surprised to see Tate traded today either.
    Last edited by Barthawk on Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:35 pm
  • EastCoastHawksFan wrote:Rice is going to have to restructure if he wants to stay


    Yep.

    My hope is that he has another productive year, then restructures at a lower salary, but for another year or two. Rice is only 26, so he's got at least another good 4-5 years left if he can stay healthy........maybe even longer.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:36 pm
  • Rice has a huge number this year and Tate is in a contract year.

    To me, long term, Tate has way more upside than Rice.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:36 pm
  • chevelle03 wrote:Miller's contract will also be in discussion.


    Miller's cap # is about half of what it is this season.. he should be safe if he continues to produce like he did at the end of the season.. RW and Miller had it going in DEC and the playoffs..
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:38 pm
  • After thinking about it further, I definitely want to keep Tate over Rice. No disrespect to Rice intended.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:39 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:I hope Sidney and Percy become BFFs, and Sidney reworks his deal considerably to stay here.

    Frankly, I'm torn between which one I'd rather keep. They're different kinds of receivers. I want both. :(

    I'm with ya on that one.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:43 pm
  • Rice
    2013 9,700,000
    2014 9,700,000
    2015 10,200,000

    Harvin
    2013 4,900,000
    2014 13,400,000
    2015 12,900,000
    2016 12,300,000
    2017 12,350,000

    Tate
    2013 784,375
    2014 911,875

    Baldwin
    2013 560,833

    We're fine this season, but 2014... it will be interesting to see how they move $$ around. Harvin will have the highest salary on the team, with Rice at #3, two receivers in the Top 3 paid players on the team? Hhhhmmm
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:46 pm
  • I'd probably rather keep Tate long term simply because I do not trust Rice to stay healthy. Has Tate ever even gotten hurt?
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:47 pm
  • Too soon to make judgments like this. I'm guessing Tate's market value will depend almost entirely on his production this year. He's an unconventional player and still a bit of a mystery. Good chance he's available at a bargain price next year. However, he also has the potential to blow up in year four like Jordy Nelson.

    And what if Rice goes off for something like 1,200 yards next year? This seems entirely plausible to me. He was easily our best receiver on the field last year, and everyone is expecting this offense to open up and take off even further. All of a sudden, $9-10 million sounds pretty reasonable. Would you cut a 1,000 yard receiver?

    These guys will be competing like everyone else. Obviously, tough decisions will eventually need to be made.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:06 pm
  • Largent80 wrote:
    To me, long term, Tate has way more upside than Rice.


    While I don't disagree that Tate hasn't fully tapped his potential, my feeling is that with Harvin Tate's now become expendable. He's kinda caught in no man's land as a receiver..........he's not big enough for the X (split end) position, and he's not fast enough to be a true burner Z position.

    So how do you justify giving him a new deal next year, even if Rice leaves? I personally don't want to commit big dollars to Tate when IMO on this team he's never going to be more than a 40 catch a year guy. I'd rather keep Rice and draft a burner to develop this year.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:10 pm
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:14 pm
  • It's WAY too soon to be discussing this with any amount of certainty. It's still not impossible that they extend Tate before the season even starts. There is just too much going on pre draft and pre preseason to really be able to judge it IMO
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:17 pm
  • Missing_Clink wrote:I'd probably rather keep Tate long term simply because I do not trust Rice to stay healthy. Has Tate ever even gotten hurt?

    I remember something happened to his leg in preseason (this year? Last year?) while returning a punt, but it seemed to be a freak accident type thing. I don't think it has bothered him since.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:17 pm
  • I wouldn't trade Tate today unless we can get a mid-2nd rounder for him, and pick up Robert Woods.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:20 pm
  • Tate signed a 5yr deal? I thought he was a 4yr deal with this being his 4th year.. hmmm
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:25 pm
  • Tate will be a cap casualty in '14 unless he has a monster year. Look for a tall rookie to step in sometime. Tate is built for the slot but plays as a wide. Baldwin is a better backup to Harvin and is a bargain.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:29 pm
  • Restructure should not be an option. All that does is push around money and put you in cap hell sooner. Look at the Stealers.

    Rice would need to take a pay cut and Tate would need to give us a hometown discount in order for both to stay.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:32 pm
  • Happypuppy wrote:Tate will be a cap casualty in '14 unless he has a monster year. Look for a tall rookie to step in sometime. Tate is built for the slot but plays as a wide. Baldwin is a better backup to Harvin and is a bargain.

    Tate is not Harvin's backup. They are two completely different WRs. And Tate>>>Baldwin. Tate is an outside WR, period.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:33 pm
  • Barthawk wrote:Tate signed a 5yr deal? I thought he was a 4yr deal with this being his 4th year.. hmmm


    As far as I know he did sign a 4 year deal, and this is his final year under that original contract.

    I'm surprised nobody has brought up Doug Baldwin. He is in the final year of his 3 year deal as well, and his position is pretty much what Harvin will play. Baldwin will only be a restricted free agent this coming offseason, but with the injuries he had last year and bringing in Harvin, it makes his situation more interesting this year IMO than anyones. He could also be an interesting trade candidate now that we have Harvin.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:34 pm
  • Tate is getting better every year, it is easy to see, AND he is Tough and becoming a way better blocker, pretty valuable guy and has the Y.A.C. and S.T. factor as well.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:34 pm
  • I really don't know why would you cut someone that's 26 (barely in their prime), who performed very well last year after dual shoulder surgeries, with a rookie quarterback. This team is much, much better with Rice. He routinely makes incredible catches, and built good chemistry with Wilson last year. Having more than a weapon or two at wide receiver is pretty important. I don't think saving a few million bucks, when the team is already under the cap, is a good reason to lesson your chances of winning a super bowl.

    I don't think Rice is going anywhere. Whether or not the Hawks draft a WR today. Bates, Kearse and the rest of the guys competing for WR5 certainly need to be concerned.

    Tate's salary isn't even a blip for this season. His status beyond this season is question mark, certainly. But that's another conversation, after the 2013 season.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:39 pm
  • kidhawk wrote:I'm surprised nobody has brought up Doug Baldwin. He is in the final year of his 3 year deal as well, and his position is pretty much what Harvin will play. Baldwin will only be a restricted free agent this coming offseason, but with the injuries he had last year and bringing in Harvin, it makes his situation more interesting this year IMO than anyones. He could also be an interesting trade candidate now that we have Harvin.


    Well, the cost of a RFA tender is really low compared to what it would cost to retain Rice or Tate. I don't think he's brought up, because we can keep him for at least two more years at a reasonable cost. Not much benefit in letting him walk, especially since he's probably giving you a lot of value for the price.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:57 pm
  • DavidSeven wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:I'm surprised nobody has brought up Doug Baldwin. He is in the final year of his 3 year deal as well, and his position is pretty much what Harvin will play. Baldwin will only be a restricted free agent this coming offseason, but with the injuries he had last year and bringing in Harvin, it makes his situation more interesting this year IMO than anyones. He could also be an interesting trade candidate now that we have Harvin.


    Well, the cost of a RFA tender is really low compared to what it would cost to retain Rice or Tate. I don't think he's brought up, because we can keep him for at least two more years at a reasonable cost. Not much benefit in letting him walk, especially since he's probably giving you a lot of value for the price.


    True, but you still need that other outside receiver. We have Rice outside and Harvin as a slot guy, we'd still need to keep a starting capable wide out. Baldwin doesn't fit that bill like Tate does. We may only have to pay Baldwin $1.5 million as a RFA, but we could fill his position as a backup from the draft for a million less.

    Looking through the players under contract next season, there are really only 2 players whose contracts we absolutely cannot cut due to dead money and that is Harvin and Irvin. Anyone else, is fair game for cutting, reworking or anything else they may want to do to keep us within the numbers.

    We also have currently about $4.5 million under the cap which we could use to get Tate signed to an extension and keep the cap number fairly decent the next two seasons, or we could roll that money over and use it to sign guys next year (tate included). So it's still too early to really call
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:22 pm
  • kidhawk wrote:
    DavidSeven wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:I'm surprised nobody has brought up Doug Baldwin. He is in the final year of his 3 year deal as well, and his position is pretty much what Harvin will play. Baldwin will only be a restricted free agent this coming offseason, but with the injuries he had last year and bringing in Harvin, it makes his situation more interesting this year IMO than anyones. He could also be an interesting trade candidate now that we have Harvin.


    Well, the cost of a RFA tender is really low compared to what it would cost to retain Rice or Tate. I don't think he's brought up, because we can keep him for at least two more years at a reasonable cost. Not much benefit in letting him walk, especially since he's probably giving you a lot of value for the price.


    True, but you still need that other outside receiver. We have Rice outside and Harvin as a slot guy, we'd still need to keep a starting capable wide out. Baldwin doesn't fit that bill like Tate does. We may only have to pay Baldwin $1.5 million as a RFA, but we could fill his position as a backup from the draft for a million less.

    Looking through the players under contract next season, there are really only 2 players whose contracts we absolutely cannot cut due to dead money and that is Harvin and Irvin. Anyone else, is fair game for cutting, reworking or anything else they may want to do to keep us within the numbers. With or without an extra $1 million, I think we'll have to get pretty creative to retain both Tate and Rice as our outside receivers.

    We also have currently about $4.5 million under the cap which we could use to get Tate signed to an extension and keep the cap number fairly decent the next two seasons, or we could roll that money over and use it to sign guys next year (tate included). So it's still too early to really call


    Yeah, I agree. I would just be surprised if they thought $1.5 million (or even $2 million @ a 2nd round tender) was too much to spend on Baldwin. Of course, I'm one of those guys who thinks Baldwin's pretty underrated. Like you said, though, it's still way too early for this kind of speculation. Tate's value to both Seattle and other teams will vary hugely depending on how he performs in 2013.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:24 pm
  • Happypuppy wrote:Tate will be a cap casualty in '14 unless he has a monster year. Look for a tall rookie to step in sometime. Tate is built for the slot but plays as a wide. Baldwin is a better backup to Harvin and is a bargain.


    I look at it as almost the complete opposite. Unless Tate has a monster year, which makes his potential new contract too expensive to afford, he will be back on a reasonable 4 or so year deal.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:22 pm
  • Hawkfan77 wrote:They are two completely different WRs.


    Disagree.
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Re: Cap Casualty: Tate or Rice?
Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:56 pm
  • Agree with Kidhawk. This is too early to tell.

    I also wish everyone would quit prognosticating Miller being a cap casualty. He has less than half of his salaray cap hit next year from this year. We get him at least for 2 more years on a reasonable deal.

    Baldwin has show flashes, but he's too injury prone. He won't command much money.

    Tate is the big question mark. He's kinda like Harvin without the blazing speed, and better agility. He has elite short area agility and quickness, and is easily as elusive as Harvin, if not more so. He also highpoints the ball better than Harvin, making him a better fit outside. He's the one that's going to be really hard to call what happens to.
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