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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:28 pm 
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The Outfield wrote:
Uncle Si wrote:
To be fair, the club has amazing pitching talent like 4 months away from the big league squad. Atleast three maybe four very good pitchers. They traded from a position of strength to add offense, something every Ms fan has been begging for since the ill adviosed Bedard trade.


That's true... I just hope they don't trade them all away for more garbage.



Nah, these kids are really good. Looking at filling in the bullpen with pryor, capps and wilhemson for the year and id say atleast two are rotation guys next year.

On Zunino.. yes he may be excellent. But Smoak and Montero were supposed to be as well. Man I hope those twp (and ackely) start hitting


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:00 pm 
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Can I also just say that I think Ackley is gonna prove to disappoint again this year. His new batting form has seemed to make him worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Blitzer88 wrote:
Can I also just say that I think Ackley is gonna prove to disappoint again this year. His new batting form has seemed to make him worse.



been a rough start for 4 players that need to be better for us to win games (Ackely, Montero, Smoak, Seeger). Maybe Safeco and Astros pitching (although I believe we draw Humber... of the perfect game against the Mariners Humber... tonight)


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:21 pm 
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The Mariners last year did a great job of rejuvenating crappy pitchers' careers by providing them with their best games of their careers.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Cannot believe I am about to speak up for Smoak, but at least he is hitting the ball hard. That will eventually lead to more base hits as long as he keeps it up. I am not as worried about Seeger (for some reason) as much as I am worried about Montero and Ackley. Morse and Morales are doing their job, and at least Michael Saunders is doing his part so far. I will be more worried if these guys fail to perform against the Astros.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:21 pm 
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Smoak has been making some solid contact, which is all you can ask for. It's extremely early in the season, and even after the Astros series it's not enough time to make a judgment about how these guys are doing. Give it a couple of months and see where they're at in early June.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:46 pm 
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jkitsune wrote:
Smoak has been making some solid contact, which is all you can ask for. It's extremely early in the season, and even after the Astros series it's not enough time to make a judgment about how these guys are doing. Give it a couple of months and see where they're at in early June.


Yep, agreed.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:35 pm 
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Good night for Saunders! Granted, it was the Astros, but still impressive.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:57 pm 
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Normally I would say give it a couple months, but these guys have had long enough. Put up or shut up. One month max and if they are still hitting .200 or worse than I think it is okay to worry. Smoak and Ackley especially.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:10 am 
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Good win in the home opener, but the preseason bats seem to have suddenly dried up somewhat. That's disturbing, considering their track record over the past few years.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:08 am 
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TheLargentLine wrote:
Normally I would say give it a couple months, but these guys have had long enough. Put up or shut up. One month max and if they are still hitting .200 or worse than I think it is okay to worry. Smoak and Ackley especially.


If you like, but it's probably wasted effort. A month in baseball is, what, 24 games? About an 8th of the season? That's like 2 games in football. Impatience has led to a lot of catastrophic moves in Mariners history, and while I'm certainly nearing my threshold with Smoak, Ackley is only in his 2nd full year in the majors. Same with Montero, if I'm not mistaken. These guys have all the talent in the world, and Michael Saunders is a great example of a talented player taking a few years to figure it out. They're not players you want to give up on unless you're pretty damn sure it's not going to work out with them, and no matter what happens with Ackley this year, I don't think we can say that.

At any rate, the failure of highly touted young prospects like Smoak is catastrophic to the franchise's development, so I don't blame them for giving him a pretty long leash before calling it good.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:24 am 
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Am I the only one that has noticed the Michael Morse fails in the clutch? Last night, bases loaded and grounded into a double play. Sunday in Shitcago he came up with guys in scoring position twice and struck out both times after a solo homer in the first. I see why he only has 8 RBI to go with those 5 HRs. It's pissing me off already.

Man Ackley looks nothing like the guy we sawe his first year. Smoak is still sucking. His major league career appears to be just about over. Looks like the league has caught up with Seeger. Montero doesn't look like he'll amount to a hill of dog manure. On the positive side, Morales hits, doesn't he? Hope they don't just start pitching around him cuz the rest of the lineup blows. Saunders looks good......so far. Ryan hitting a bit so far and considering his fielding any hitting from him is a bonus. Gutierrez healthy and if he stays that way he will produce.

Agree with jkitsune that you can't give up yet on Ackley, Montero and Seeger but shit they look bad so far after the same last year. Smoak though, as I said above it's very close to time to put a fork in his career.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:20 am 
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hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
Am I the only one that has noticed the Michael Morse fails in the clutch? Last night, bases loaded and grounded into a double play. Sunday in Shitcago he came up with guys in scoring position twice and struck out both times after a solo homer in the first. I see why he only has 8 RBI to go with those 5 HRs. It's pissing me off already.


Still way too early to say that he fails in the clutch. I saw him come through quite a few times for the Nats, and I am sure he will for us too.

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TheLargentLine wrote:
Normally I would say give it a couple months, but these guys have had long enough. Put up or shut up. One month max and if they are still hitting .200 or worse than I think it is okay to worry. Smoak and Ackley especially.


If you like, but it's probably wasted effort. A month in baseball is, what, 24 games? About an 8th of the season? That's like 2 games in football.


Being too patient could kill us too. Comparing it to two games in the NFL is not accurate. In a months time, Ackley and Smoak will see somewhere around 90 - 100 at bats. Maybe a little more. Add that to spring training at bats and cuts taken during the offseason.. well, I don't see any reason why they should need more than a month.

I am not saying that we should dump these guys after a month or anything like that. I am simply saying that being worried about these guys would be justified.

Ackley scares me the most because he came into the big leagues red hot and completely capable of hitting around .300 and there was even talk of him possibly winning some batting awards in the future. Now, he has completed changed his swing and is starting off ice cold. A huge part of the game is self confidence, and I think Ackley lost that sometime last season. I hope he regains it because I like Ackley and I know he is capable! Smoak, on the other hand, is at least ripping the ball and I think his hard work will begin to show.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:17 am 
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Good Lord Dustin Ackley looks terrible at the plate. I saw him when he came up and he looked like a player.

What is with the bat on the shoulder , hands close to his waist , very upright , neutral stance .... When he swings most players turn the lead shoulder away from the pitch a bit and rotate the waist back with the arms whipping through the hitting zone. He has is just throwing his arms at the ball with no body at all.

Who screwed this guy up? He really is a mess


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:28 am 
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TheLargentLine wrote:
hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
Am I the only one that has noticed the Michael Morse fails in the clutch? Last night, bases loaded and grounded into a double play. Sunday in Shitcago he came up with guys in scoring position twice and struck out both times after a solo homer in the first. I see why he only has 8 RBI to go with those 5 HRs. It's pissing me off already.


Still way too early to say that he fails in the clutch. I saw him come through quite a few times for the Nats, and I am sure he will for us too.

Agree, but it's on my radar already. Drive in some damned runs Morse!!

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:29 am 
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Happypuppy wrote:
Good Lord Dustin Ackley looks terrible at the plate. I saw him when he came up and he looked like a player.

What is with the bat on the shoulder , hands close to his waist , very upright , neutral stance .... When he swings most players turn the lead shoulder away from the pitch a bit and rotate the waist back with the arms whipping through the hitting zone. He has is just throwing his arms at the ball with no body at all.

Who screwed this guy up? He really is a mess

It sure looks like he has been screwed up. Maybe he needs to tell everyone to buzz off and just hit like he has his whole life. <shrug>

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:17 pm 
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hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
Happypuppy wrote:
Good Lord Dustin Ackley looks terrible at the plate. I saw him when he came up and he looked like a player.

What is with the bat on the shoulder , hands close to his waist , very upright , neutral stance .... When he swings most players turn the lead shoulder away from the pitch a bit and rotate the waist back with the arms whipping through the hitting zone. He has is just throwing his arms at the ball with no body at all.

Who screwed this guy up? He really is a mess

It sure looks like he has been screwed up. Maybe he needs to tell everyone to buzz off and just hit like he has his whole life. <shrug>



Ms have a history of trying to remake players in their own screwed up way.

Remember they spent 2 years trying to make Ichiro change his style cause they wanted more home runs & more conventional hitting. One of the best hitters ever in baseball and they wanted him to change and be a Mariner style hitter. We know how well that worked out.

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Carter Capps will be a top teir bullpen/closer role for years to come. I can only hope for our team. I can see him as trade material come around the all star break. With his release point and his arm rotation batters can't pick up the ball as easy it seems. Call me crazy.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:37 pm 
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TheLargentLine wrote:
hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
Am I the only one that has noticed the Michael Morse fails in the clutch? Last night, bases loaded and grounded into a double play. Sunday in Shitcago he came up with guys in scoring position twice and struck out both times after a solo homer in the first. I see why he only has 8 RBI to go with those 5 HRs. It's pissing me off already.


Still way too early to say that he fails in the clutch. I saw him come through quite a few times for the Nats, and I am sure he will for us too.

jkitsune wrote:
TheLargentLine wrote:
Normally I would say give it a couple months, but these guys have had long enough. Put up or shut up. One month max and if they are still hitting .200 or worse than I think it is okay to worry. Smoak and Ackley especially.


If you like, but it's probably wasted effort. A month in baseball is, what, 24 games? About an 8th of the season? That's like 2 games in football.


Being too patient could kill us too. Comparing it to two games in the NFL is not accurate. In a months time, Ackley and Smoak will see somewhere around 90 - 100 at bats. Maybe a little more. Add that to spring training at bats and cuts taken during the offseason.. well, I don't see any reason why they should need more than a month.

I am not saying that we should dump these guys after a month or anything like that. I am simply saying that being worried about these guys would be justified.

Ackley scares me the most because he came into the big leagues red hot and completely capable of hitting around .300 and there was even talk of him possibly winning some batting awards in the future. Now, he has completed changed his swing and is starting off ice cold. A huge part of the game is self confidence, and I think Ackley lost that sometime last season. I hope he regains it because I like Ackley and I know he is capable! Smoak, on the other hand, is at least ripping the ball and I think his hard work will begin to show.


Worrying is justified, sure, but my point is mostly that it's very easy to be too reactionary in baseball. That the number of at-bats is 100 doesn't make it a good enough sample size, it's still a tiny fraction of one season and has little predictive value (but not none) of what the remainder of his season will look like. People who have All-Star quality first halves have awful second halves, and vice-versa, and all you can reasonably hope for (IMO) is that a player's process is good. You hope he swings at good pitches, lays off bad pitches, makes solid contact (and hits line drives), etc. Whether or not these things turn into a high batting average or more rbis or 'hitting in the clutch' is more luck and statistical fluctuation than anything.

Far be it from me to tell ANYONE how to watch baseball, or what judgments to make. But deciding that 'the league has caught up to Seager,' 'Smoak's career is over,' 'Ackley is screwed up' based on the current sample is reactionary - just as certain as hypothetical statements (not necessarily made by any posters here) that 'Morales is going to have a career year' are reactionary. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. He's had a good start, but two games ago his stats looked awful. We as fans tend to over-react to the ebbs and flows of player performance, which can make watching sports fun... or torturous.

All of that said, I definitely resonate with the drive to negativity with regards to the Mariners. It has been an awful decade for Mariners baseball, and the struggles of Smoak, Montero, and Ackley have snuffed some of the hope for brighter days which have gotten us through some tough years. So if it feels better to freak out on these players now, by all means, have at. We're all in the same boat here.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Man....Mauer is struggling tonight!

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:35 pm 
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Blitzer88 wrote:
Man....Mauer is struggling tonight!


This is brutal to watch. Fortunately, there's no reason to believe it's predictive of how his career will pan out!


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:39 pm 
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After putting aside my frustration with how the inning went, I feel bad for the kid. That was just awful.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:50 pm 
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Man again......this Loe guy needs to go , he is awful!

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:53 pm 
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Well, just over an inning through and down 9-0? Yep. That's the Mariners we all know and love.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Seahawk Sailor wrote:
Well, just over an inning through and down 9-0? Yep. That's the Mariners we all know and love.


Nothing ever changes with this team.....nothing, I hate being a fan of them sometimes.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:19 pm 
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Im happy to be a fair weather fan


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:23 pm 
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Man none of the hitters are going up to bat with a sense of urgency......they have already given up tonight. Wouldn't be surprised if they got no hit.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:23 pm 
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Watch Bedard throw a no no against us, that would really cap the night.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:36 pm 
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I could tell this kid might have confidence issues. It's a shame because I think he's a good pitcher otherwise. I hope he can figure it out.

Meanwhile, is Erasmo healthy yet?


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:10 pm 
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I consider myself to be generally one of the more tolerant M's fans out there. And even I had to turn it off. Do we still not have a hit?


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:13 pm 
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I don't know why you guys do this to yourselves every year. I mean, I do. You're fans, that's what fans do. Still, the only decent move the M's seemed to have made was getting Morales. They lost Vargas, still didn't pick up a closer and were still going with most of the same shitty bats. I hope things turn around, but it looks like another long and miserable year for the hardcore Ms fans.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:13 pm 
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jkitsune wrote:
I consider myself to be generally one of the more tolerant M's fans out there. And even I had to turn it off. Do we still not have a hit?


Saunders got a hit. Now Bedard is out of the game at only 66 pitches. I decided to leave it on and am rooting for a comeback :)


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:14 pm 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
I don't know why you guys do this to yourselves every year. I mean, I do. You're fans, that's what fans do. Still, the only decent move the M's seemed to have made was getting Morales. They lost Vargas, still didn't pick up a closer and were still going with most of the same shitty bats. I hope things turn around, but it looks like another long and miserable year for the hardcore Ms fans.


Morse and Ibanez were good moves imo. Along with re-signing Felix and Iwakuma.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
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I am of the mindset that the M's will never be a consistent winner with Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong at the helm.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
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Luetge got a haircut. New man.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
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4 Runs in the 9th... All with 2 outs!

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
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Oh well.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
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The rally was obviously doomed with Montero and Ackley up to bat with 2 outs.

I'm glad they came back with 9 runs.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:56 pm 
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No kidding. I've expected Montero to be a so-so hitter anyway but what in the hell is up with Ackley? Who messed this kid up? Cause he looked promising when he first came in. Now he looks completely lost at the plate.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
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Ackley has been a HUGE disappointment..........I think we might have to send him down now.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:47 pm 
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Okay, I'm going to stop trying to preach the whole "small sample size" thing, because its obviously not catching. I get that. I'm actually not opposed to the idea of sending our top prospects back down, either. I doubt it will happen, unfortunately, because the only people behind them are less major league-ready prospects. Let the record show that I think all judgments are premature, that the mariners will be slightly better this year than last, that they'll miss the playoffs, and that someday in the distant future the mariners will actually be good again.

But how about the homers? We've hit a lot of them so far. That's got to be worth something right?


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:51 pm 
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ohmergerdz it's the same as every year! They're doomed already!

The M's still made smart offseason acquisitions, still look poised to be better than last year, and still have a lot of exciting young talent. I'm not worried.

And mofuggin' Zoo-nee-no.



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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
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Good thing we traded a very good pitcher for Montero. Am I the only one starting to thing our front office overrated what they had in the minors pitching wise?


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:31 am 
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I don't know why Mauer stsyed on. He plsyed well in spting training but I think hr is due for assignment.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:00 am 
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CPHawk wrote:
Good thing we traded a very good pitcher for Montero. Am I the only one starting to thing our front office overrated what they had in the minors pitching wise?


Yes. You are cmplaining about getting a young bat for a pitcher that would have never returned. You are also complaining about a rookie pitcher that was not in what many consider to be "the big three."

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:33 am 
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CurryStopstheRuns wrote:
CPHawk wrote:
Good thing we traded a very good pitcher for Montero. Am I the only one starting to thing our front office overrated what they had in the minors pitching wise?


Yes. You are cmplaining about getting a young bat for a pitcher that would have never returned. You are also complaining about a rookie pitcher that was not in what many consider to be "the big three."


And Pineda has been injured and invisible for the Yankees.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:54 am 
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CPHawk wrote:
Good thing we traded a very good pitcher for Montero. Am I the only one starting to thing our front office overrated what they had in the minors pitching wise?



Well tbf Pineda hasnt done anything for the Yankees.

As for our pitching talent in the minors... they're still in the minors (aside from Maurer and Pryor) and doing very well. There are 3-4 excellent prospects down there.

So i dont think the FO overrated our prospects. I think perhaps our manager overrated Maurer (or underrated one of the vets he tried out).

If we're giving small sample sizes to our hitters we must give it to our pitchers as well

In regards to the homeruns, yes there has been a massive uptick. Alarmingly it has come from the free agents. This is both good and bad. The FO seems to have identified the right bats to bring in to help the younger players. but the younger players havent responded. Again, we're 9 games in. But i think we'd all prefer to see alot different from Ackley (who does have a hit in two consecutive games now, so theres that), Montero, Smoak and Seeger


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:56 am 
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good news is we scored 9 runs, bad news is we gave up 16... :shock: it happens , every team has one game like this every year...

now i'm not going to come down on young Mauer, but he needs to get over these nerve issues and get some confidence, he was actually making some good pitches towards the end, i think he just got pissed and said F it... but he needs a strong outing to get his confidence back, hopefully that will happen soon..

Ackley, needs to be sent down and figure it out, smoak is a bust, i'm calling it now... Ryan, does it get to the point where stellar defense does not out way zero production at the plate? i'd settle for a mediocre shortstop with a solid bat..

positive notes, Morales, Saunders, Guti, Morse, Ibanez, Seigler all solid players

early season prediction.. where i think we'll be better than last year record wise, we're still 2 or 3 players away from fielding a winning club, we're getting zero production from our middle infielders, montero is still a question mark at this point, and our starting rotation falls off dramatically after the first two.... going to be a long season boy's...

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:20 am 
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hawker84, Ryan is doing fairly well so far this year. He has a .273 average. Hope he can keep it up, because that would be a huge improvement over last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Mariners
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:37 am 
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hawker84, Ryan is doing fairly well so far this year. He has a .273 average. Hope he can keep it up, because that would be a huge improvement over last year.


Key phrase, i hope so as well....

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