49ers OC claims he didn't use real offense during 42-13 loss

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  • RW had the playbook significantly limited until the second half of the season. From that point on it became evident that the Seahawks had found their FIRST ever franchise QB (the 49-er's have had several back in the day). That is what makes this fan very jacked up for the coming seasons. Look at RW's stats from the first half vs the second half to see why. I liked Kaepernick when he was available in the draft, but our guys thankfully went in a different direction. I will say that Kaepernick has a pretty good chance to be a *very good* QB, but the Seahawks have a QB that has a chance to be a *great* QB as he continues to improve and excell at the position. That's what has all of us Seahawks fans really, really excited.
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  • How often did they run out of pistol prior to the Hawks game?
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  • AbsolutNET wrote:How often did they run out of pistol prior to the Hawks game?


    Up to 30.9% of the plays, according to the article. Peaking in week 14 against Miami then dropping back down for NE, Seattle and Arizona respectively as they approached the playoffs.
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  • AbsolutNET wrote:How often did they run out of pistol prior to the Hawks game?


    Not nearly as much as they did in the playoffs but more than they did vs Seattle and Arizona. Whats more, they ran DIFFERENT plays out of the Pistol.

    All anyone is saying is that they scaled back the playbook at the end of the season and then opened it up in the playoffs. That is NOT an excuse for their performance in Seattle.
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  • Okay, now I loathe Abs as much as the 49er fans defending their gimmick.
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  • CamanoIslandJQ wrote:RW had the playbook significantly limited until the second half of the season. From that point on it became evident that the Seahawks had found their FIRST ever franchise QB (the 49-er's have had several back in the day). That is what makes this fan very jacked up for the coming seasons. Look at RW's stats from the first half vs the second half to see why. I liked Kaepernick when he was available in the draft, but our guys thankfully went in a different direction. I will say that Kaepernick has a pretty good chance to be a *very good* QB, but the Seahawks have a QB that has a chance to be a *great* QB as he continues to improve and excell at the position. That's what has all of us Seahawks fans really, really excited.


    See this stuff just amazes me.

    Wilson can be great but Kaep only "very good"? Based on what? Kaep took his team to the Super Bowl in his 10th freakin start. Is Wilson the only one who can improve. It seems like this conversation is always that somehow Wilson will continue to improve till he is the second coming of Jesus Christ (unless he is already that) and that Kaep is a pretender who will obviously decline (jeez, who doesn't know that?).

    I think both guys have the potential to be the among the best in the NFL. I understand liking the QB who's on your team, but dude....Kaep has a chance to be INCREDIBLE.
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  • pehawk wrote:Okay, now I loathe Abs as much as the 49er fans defending their gimmick.


    "gimmick"?

    You mean the Pistol? the same one Seattle runs?
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    AbsolutNET wrote:How often did they run out of pistol prior to the Hawks game?


    Not nearly as much as they did in the playoffs but more than they did vs Seattle and Arizona. Whats more, they ran DIFFERENT plays out of the Pistol.

    All anyone is saying is that they scaled back the playbook at the end of the season and then opened it up in the playoffs. That is NOT an excuse for their performance in Seattle.


    What you're saying is they ran it considerably more in the playoffs than at any point during the regular season. By your argument, they scaled back the playbook the entire season.

    They ran it so much against GB because early on they realized that Dom Capers is a dinosaur that had no idea how to stop something he hadn't faced before in his career. SF didn't take over that game until they decided to stick with it after getting down early. Or, let me guess, the OC "scaled it back" during the 1st quarter, too?
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Okay, now I loathe Abs as much as the 49er fans defending their gimmick.


    "gimmick"?

    You mean the Pistol? the same one Seattle runs?


    No, gimmick as in being a 49er fan. My GF's a Seahawks fan, but like you, she doesn't know the game either.
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  • pehawk wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Okay, now I loathe Abs as much as the 49er fans defending their gimmick.


    "gimmick"?

    You mean the Pistol? the same one Seattle runs?


    No, gimmick as in being a 49er fan. My GF's a Seahawks fan, but like you, she doesn't know the game either.


    Dude. Seriously? Attacking my knowledge of the game? Really? Thats just sad.

    Football is my passion. I record the freakin draft and have since 1990. I got no prob testing what I do or do not know.

    I've been a Niner fan since 1984. Thats seeing alot of great football followed by some horrific football. The best part is that I appreciate the success much more now than I did when I first became a fan because I didn't experience the lean years. This time I got to see the process of turning it around. I also see that winning the offseason doesn't often turn into winning in the regular season.

    I'll stand on my knowledge of the game against just about anyone. I also wouldn't be bold enough to challenge anyone elses knowledge simply because they are a fan of a different team.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • AbsolutNET wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    AbsolutNET wrote:How often did they run out of pistol prior to the Hawks game?


    Not nearly as much as they did in the playoffs but more than they did vs Seattle and Arizona. Whats more, they ran DIFFERENT plays out of the Pistol.

    All anyone is saying is that they scaled back the playbook at the end of the season and then opened it up in the playoffs. That is NOT an excuse for their performance in Seattle.


    What you're saying is they ran it considerably more in the playoffs than at any point during the regular season. By your argument, they scaled back the playbook the entire season.

    They ran it so much against GB because early on they realized that Dom Capers is a dinosaur that had no idea how to stop something he hadn't faced before in his career. SF didn't take over that game until they decided to stick with it after getting down early. Or, let me guess, the OC "scaled it back" during the 1st quarter, too?


    No...they ran it more and more as the season went on and then stopped using it as much around the time they played NE. They then used it on almost 50% of their snaps in the playoffs. Read the other poster for specific %'s.

    I mean seriously people. This isn't rocket science. Two things can be mutually true. it is possible that the 49ers scaled back the offense AND that they were trying to win. It worked against NE. The OC stated that this was the case late in the year and it was the WRITER who braught up Seattle. The only reason you guys are offended is that you are taking it as some sort of slight on your precious "42-13" mantra.

    Seattle won. Enjoy it. Nobody is taking it away.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Easy Marvin, I'm attacking all 49er fans knowledge of the game.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:No...they ran it more and more as the season went on and then stopped using it as much around the time they played NE. They then used it on almost 50% of their snaps in the playoffs. Read the other poster for specific %'s.


    So after Alex Smith got hurt, they started running the pistol more often? that's weird.
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  • pehawk wrote:Easy Marvin, I'm attacking all 49er fans knowledge of the game.


    ...and you somehow think that's BETTER?

    I mean seriously...I've seen posters on this site claim that the only reason the 49ers beat Atlanta was that they had a full week off before the game AND the game was at Candlestick.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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  • AbsolutNET wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:No...they ran it more and more as the season went on and then stopped using it as much around the time they played NE. They then used it on almost 50% of their snaps in the playoffs. Read the other poster for specific %'s.


    So after Alex Smith got hurt, they started running the pistol more often? that's weird.


    Alex was hurt LONG before NE. Kaep had been the starter for more than a month.
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  • So you're basing your sample size of a new offense on 4 games? You really think by NE that your coaching staff was as sold on the pistol as they were when they started running GB up and down the field after being down early?

    They didn't know what they had until GB. Teams trying to win the conference don't stop doing what they're best at with 3 weeks to go.
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  • I"m not going back into this, but are 49er fans really buying the notion their punk ol team laid down and let us kick 'em in the face?

    I'm not buying that. I'm sure Harbaugh, as much of a doofus as he is, isn't the type of guy to say "okay we're gonna lay 'em on down and let Seattle do their thing when they're still on our heals for the division"

    Get the hell up outta here with that...

    If thats what they're saying.
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  • QuickLightning wrote:Here's your stats to back up the point.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... -formation

    They ran 9% of their plays from the Pistol in Seattle and only 2 snaps against Arizona... that figure jumped up to 45.3 in Green Bay and 54.9% in Atlanta. I think it is pretty obvious looking at those numbers they were trying to set Green Bay up to game plan for a more generic offense.


    Nope, sorry. Because the Yahoo article is making the claim that Roman began to scale back the playbook to set up potential playoff teams AFTER the New England game. But you have made the case in multiple posts on this thread that they started limiting their use of the pistol IN the New England game:

    QuickLightning wrote:Up to 30.9% of the plays, according to the article. Peaking in week 14 against Miami then dropping back down for NE, Seattle and Arizona respectively as they approached the playoffs.


    QuickLightning wrote:I was reading earlier (after the divisional round of the playoffs) that they ran something like 10% of their plays from the pistol in the Seattle, New England and Arizona games


    So if they stopped using the pistol as much in New England but didn't start "scaling back the playbook" until Seattle, it follows that not using the pistol as much isn't proof that that were "scaling back the playbook." And as I said in my first post on this thread, there are many reasons why San Francisco might not want to use the pistol in a particular game--defensive personnel, familiarity with mobile quarterbacks, etc. That doesn't mean they were scaling back the playbook, only that they were adjusting their gameplans for each specific opponent. And as many people on this thread have said multiple times, it would be beyond foolish for an offensive coordinator to start going to a vanilla offense when there was still a chance that they might not earn the first round bye or even win the division.

    Look, you're going to believe this theory because it takes the sting out of an ugly loss. We're not going to believe it because we are of the opinion that Seattle's 42-13 victory meant a hell of a lot more than you want to admit. But answer me this: we've had dozens of 49er fans on this board offering every excuse imaginable for your team's loss. If it's so obvious that they dumbed down the playbook to rope-a-dope potential playoff teams, why is it that NOBODY thought to make that case before when they tried every other excuse you can think of?
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  • AbsolutNET wrote:So you're basing your sample size of a new offense on 4 games? You really think by NE that your coaching staff was as sold on the pistol as they were when they started running GB up and down the field after being down early?

    They didn't know what they had until GB. Teams trying to win the conference don't stop doing what they're best at with 3 weeks to go.


    oi.

    Lets put this a different way....

    Lets just look at the 7 games Kaep played in the regular season.

    If in the first 4 he ran increasingly more plays in every game up to Miami where he played in the formation 30% of the time, and then the formation all but disappeared in the final 3 games of the year...and then in the playoffs they used it 50% of the time....wouldn't it make sense that they were saving it for the playoffs?

    In particular if the OC as much as admitted it while never even mentioning the loss in Seattle, wouldn't that be logical?

    If you were the fan of ANY team outside of the three teams they played in those last few games, wouldn't that simply make sense?

    Wait...I already know your answer. We can never spoil the 42-13 mantra.
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  • Throwdown wrote:I"m not going back into this, but are 49er fans really buying the notion their punk ol team laid down and let us kick 'em in the face?

    I'm not buying that. I'm sure Harbaugh, as much of a doofus as he is, isn't the type of guy to say "okay we're gonna lay 'em on down and let Seattle do their thing when they're still on our heals for the division"

    Get the hell up outta here with that...

    If thats what they're saying.


    Is reading an issue here?

    NO. Nobody is saying the 49ers let Seattle win. Sigh. If you are gonna have an issue here at least have it on topic.
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:[quote="QuickLightning']Here's your stats to back up the point.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... -formation

    They ran 9% of their plays from the Pistol in Seattle and only 2 snaps against Arizona... that figure jumped up to 45.3 in Green Bay and 54.9% in Atlanta. I think it is pretty obvious looking at those numbers they were trying to set Green Bay up to game plan for a more generic offense.[/quote]

    Nope, sorry. Because the Yahoo article is making the claim that Roman began to scale back the playbook to set up potential playoff teams AFTER the New England game. But you have made the case in multiple posts on this thread that they started limiting their use of the pistol IN the New England game:

    [quote="QuickLightning']Up to 30.9% of the plays, according to the article. Peaking in week 14 against Miami then dropping back down for NE, Seattle and Arizona respectively as they approached the playoffs.[/quote]

    [quote="QuickLightning']I was reading earlier (after the divisional round of the playoffs) that they ran something like 10% of their plays from the pistol in the Seattle, New England and Arizona games[/quote]

    So if they stopped using the pistol as much in New England but didn't start "scaling back the playbook" until Seattle, it follows that not using the pistol as much isn't proof that that were "scaling back the playbook." And as I said in my first post on this thread, there are many reasons why San Francisco might not want to use the pistol in a particular game--defensive personnel, familiarity with mobile quarterbacks, etc. That doesn't mean they were scaling back the playbook, only that they were adjusting their gameplans for each specific opponent. And as many people on this thread have said multiple times, it would be beyond foolish for an offensive coordinator to start going to a vanilla offense when there was still a chance that they might not earn the first round bye or even win the division.

    Look, you're going to believe this theory because it takes the sting out of an ugly loss. We're not going to believe it because we are of the opinion that Seattle's 42-13 victory meant a hell of a lot more than you want to admit. But answer me this: we've had dozens of 49er fans on this board offering every excuse imaginable for your team's loss. If it's so obvious that they dumbed down the playbook to rope-a-dope potential playoff teams, why is it that NOBODY thought to make that case before when they tried every other excuse you can think of?[/quote]


    Who said they started scaling back the playbook in Seattle? I think they started in New England...and they won there.

    Some of you seem to think scaling back the offense means "let Seattle win". Thats not what ANYONE is saying. They are just saying that they intentionally didn't use portions of the playbook that they wanted to save for the playoffs. The % of time they spent in the pistol bears that out.

    Why is this so difficult to believe?

    There is no guarantee that if the entire offense had been in play that the score would have been any different. None. You guys all seem to read it as an excuse even though Roman wasn't even talking about Seattle when he made the comment.

    49er fans only buy this because it gives an excuse?

    1) No it doesn't. There is no excuse.

    2) Seattle fans don't WANT it to be true because it spoils their 42-13 mantra.

    I guess, you know.....Harbaugh is such a jerk. When he isn't tossing dwarves he's skinning kittens. It would logically follow that his OC is a downright liar.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:None of this was because he was "shaken". Seattle fans like to say that it was, largely because they see their own QB as unshakable and would like to use it as a point of emphasis when comparing the two QBs.


    I find this accusation particularly amusing given how you started your very next paragraph:

    Marvin49 wrote:Kaep doesn't get shaken. If you knew much about him, you'd understand that.


    Physician, heal thyself. ;)
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  • Marvin49 wrote:I guess, you know.....Harbaugh is such a jerk. When he isn't tossing dwarves he's skinning kittens. It would logically follow that his OC is a downright liar.


    I'm proud of you. Glad you're finally seeing the light.
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:None of this was because he was "shaken". Seattle fans like to say that it was, largely because they see their own QB as unshakable and would like to use it as a point of emphasis when comparing the two QBs.


    I find this accusation particularly amusing given how you started your very next paragraph:

    Marvin49 wrote:Kaep doesn't get shaken. If you knew much about him, you'd understand that.


    Physician, heal thyself. ;)


    uh...nothing wrong with what I said. You just don't like it because you want to believe that Wilson can't be shaken and Kaep can.

    I personally think both guys are incredible in that regard and show an ability to stay calm that some HOF QBs never did (Cough....Elway...cough). Wilson was cool under pressure all year. He almost came all the way back vs Atlanta. It was the D that failed them. Kaep DID come all the way back in Atlanta and almost did it in the SB.

    When you consider their playoff performances and the amount of time they've actually been under center in the NFL, it's amazing.
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  • Marvin, I am sure you are well versed in all things Niner, though I have probably watched all their games twice myself. However, you appear to know damn near nothing about the rest of the NFL, like most Niner fans we see here.

    I personally think Roman is pretty smart. So smart that he watches how other teams play against pistol looks and tailors his game plan quite well. The Patriots have a pretty effective scheme against the pistol, having seen it twice the year before with Tebow, and absolutely killing it the second time they saw it. Seattle held Cam Newton to three offensive points earlier in 2012 and in the few looks in the first half Roman did use it, we killed the look. Makes sense, Seattle practices against it every day. As it turns out, no pistol QB scored more than 14 on us last year in three games. Besides, the Niners were too far behind to pose a serious run threat from any look, so why use the Pistol? The Cards have pretty good edge speed too, and in week 17 it makes perfect sense to not show a lot of what you have planned in two more weeks against a team unlikely to put up more than 20 (the Cards). But if you think Kaep's production against the Pack has anything to do with not showing them plays, you are daft. The Pack couldn't put a finger on him, only 4 of his yards were after contact. Sometimes coordinators just shit the bed by not being ready or in Capers case, lining up in 4 and 5 man man coverage looks, which just made QB runs easy. In Kaepernicks first game vs the Bears, same thing, a defensive coordinator very unprepared for Kaepernick.

    But Roman isn't so smart that he didn't get his car towed when hanging with his buddy Silver.

    See Marvin, how it's done? There were true facts about 4 teams besides the Niners and Hawks in my post. Go drop the 30 bucks or so on a rewind package, and try to watch games not involving your Niners. You just might become an NFL fan instead of a blind homer.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:Who said they started scaling back the playbook in Seattle? I think they started in New England...and they won there.


    From the Yahoo article that started this thread (emphasis mine):

    Except, of course, when he intentionally doesn't. In mid-December, after the Niners pulled out a 41-34 victory over the New England Patriots to improve to 10-3-1, Roman consciously decided to dial back the offense in order to keep potential playoff opponents off balance.


    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--offensive-guru-and-coaching-candidate-greg-roman-a-victim-of-his--niners--success-022509392.html

    Who said they started scaling back the playbook in Seattle? Michael Silver of Yahoo Sports did.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    In my post I said that the Seahawks were good. Never argued otherwise.

    The "point" I was making that you call nonexistant was simply that the 43-13 win wasn't everything you guys seem to think it is. Do you really think that if they played again the score would be the same? Do you really think that the factors I listed played no role whatsoever in the outcome of the game? If you do then I feel sorry for you. You are in for a rude awakening.

    The Niners and Seahawks are gonna battle this year in a big way. Its gonna be a tough division. To read the posts on this site tho you'd think it was a forgone conclusion that the Seahawks are the better team. All you have to do is look at the score of that last game. That proves everything, right?

    The problem is that it doesn't. It proves nothing. You still lost the division. You are still 1-3 vs Harbaugh. You still only split the division series. You were still 3-5 on the road. You still lost to the team the Niners eliminated in the playoffs.

    The problem with annoining yourself the king in the offseason is that very often it doesn't happen in the REGULAR season.


    Of course it wouldn't be a 30 point blow out when we meet again; 30 point blowouts (let alone 3 in a row) are rare in the NFL. But I'm quite sure Seattle will win comfortably, by 10-14 points. Past record vs. Harbaugh will have zero influence on future meetings. Sure, we split the series last year, but had Carroll and Bevell not been handcuffing the playcalling (same argument you're using) in order to bring Wilson along slowly, it would've been a Seattle sweep. Lastly, congrats on getting one more break than Seattle got against ATL. One break, one play... that the was difference between a W and L against ATL for both Seattle and SF.
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:Who said they started scaling back the playbook in Seattle? I think they started in New England...and they won there.


    From the Yahoo article that started this thread (emphasis mine):

    Except, of course, when he intentionally doesn't. In mid-December, after the Niners pulled out a 41-34 victory over the New England Patriots to improve to 10-3-1, Roman consciously decided to dial back the offense in order to keep potential playoff opponents off balance.


    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--offensive-guru-and-coaching-candidate-greg-roman-a-victim-of-his--niners--success-022509392.html

    Who said they started scaling back the playbook in Seattle? Michael Silver of Yahoo Sports did.


    Hell, the coach himself said it.
    "My post-New England mindset was to hold back and try to save things for the playoffs," Roman says.
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:Who said they started scaling back the playbook in Seattle? I think they started in New England...and they won there.


    From the Yahoo article that started this thread (emphasis mine):

    Except, of course, when he intentionally doesn't. In mid-December, after the Niners pulled out a 41-34 victory over the New England Patriots to improve to 10-3-1, Roman consciously decided to dial back the offense in order to keep potential playoff opponents off balance.


    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--offensive-guru-and-coaching-candidate-greg-roman-a-victim-of-his--niners--success-022509392.html

    Who said they started scaling back the playbook in Seattle? Michael Silver of Yahoo Sports did.


    I stand corrected.

    See that...I can admit when I'm wrong.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:uh...nothing wrong with what I said. You just don't like it because you want to believe that Wilson can't be shaken and Kaep can.


    Hate to break it to you, Marv, but only one person on this thread has made the claim that his team's quarterback can't be shaken. Here's a hint: it wasn't me.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:Marvin, I am sure you are well versed in all things Niner, though I have probably watched all their games twice myself. However, you appear to know damn near nothing about the rest of the NFL, like most Niner fans we see here.

    I personally think Roman is pretty smart. So smart that he watches how other teams play against pistol looks and tailors his game plan quite well. The Patriots have a pretty effective scheme against the pistol, having seen it twice the year before with Tebow, and absolutely killing it the second time they saw it. Seattle held Cam Newton to three offensive points earlier in 2012 and in the few looks in the first half Roman did use it, we killed the look. Makes sense, Seattle practices against it every day. As it turns out, no pistol QB scored more than 14 on us last year in three games. Besides, the Niners were too far behind to pose a serious run threat from any look, so why use the Pistol? The Cards have pretty good edge speed too, and in week 17 it makes perfect sense to not show a lot of what you have planned in two more weeks against a team unlikely to put up more than 20 (the Cards). But if you think Kaep's production against the Pack has anything to do with not showing them plays, you are daft. The Pack couldn't put a finger on him, only 4 of his yards were after contact. Sometimes coordinators just shit the bed by not being ready or in Capers case, lining up in 4 and 5 man man coverage looks, which just made QB runs easy. In Kaepernicks first game vs the Bears, same thing, a defensive coordinator very unprepared for Kaepernick.

    But Roman isn't so smart that he didn't get his car towed when hanging with his buddy Silver.

    See Marvin, how it's done? There were true facts about 4 teams besides the Niners and Hawks in my post. Go drop the 30 bucks or so on a rewind package, and try to watch games not involving your Niners. You just might become an NFL fan instead of a blind homer.


    Wow. Dude you know NOTHING about my knowledge of the game. Nothing.

    You think that I am somehow unaware of other teams running the Pistol? You think I don't know that it was Chris Ault at Nevada who created the thing? You think I don't know that when it was initially installed there was no read-option element to it and that was a dded a year into Kaeps time there? You think I don't know that Washington ran it the most this season? You think that I don't know that while Seattle began runing it later in the year that Wilson had NEVER run it in college?

    You tyhink that because I am talking Niners that I know nothing about the NFL at large?

    Dude, you don't have a clue who you're dealing with. I've been recoirding the draft since 1990. I remember the days Seattle drafted Dan McGuire and Rick Mirer. I've been a football fan since 1984. I remember Chris Warren and even Steve Largent. I remember Warren Moon when he was first in the CFL and then in Houston...you know long before he was in the media in Seattle.

    Just test me on this.

    The OC of a team comes out and says they scaled back their offense and all of you call him a liar even if the numbers seem to bear that out. I am a blind homer though because I agree with him and dare to tread on the 42-13 mantra and happen to think that Kaep isn't a timid little boy.

    You guys are nuts sometimes.
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  • Marvin is a football genius. It is known.
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:uh...nothing wrong with what I said. You just don't like it because you want to believe that Wilson can't be shaken and Kaep can.


    Hate to break it to you, Marv, but only one person on this thread has made the claim that his team's quarterback can't be shaken. Here's a hint: it wasn't me.


    Actually, they have. That was what I was responding to.

    When anyone here or even Seattle fans on Niner boards compare Wilson and Kaep they always like to talk about Kaep being shaken in Seattle and that Wilson has never been shaken. You can't say Wilson is taller or faster or has a bigger arm....so you go to intangibles.

    Wilson has them. No question. Its just wishful thinking tho that Kaep doesn't.

    Wilson is a great young QB. No question. Given their respective ages, I'd want Kaep more than anyone else right now followed by Wilson...altho Rodgers isn't that old so he might trump them both. Brady and Manning are better, but also far older.

    I have nothing but good things to say about Wilson.
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  • JSeahawks wrote:Marvin is a football genius. It is known.


    Glad we're on the same page. :)

    In all seriousness, I just think the "you don't know football" is the lamest of all lame attacks in a football forum.

    I wouldn't say that to anyone here. Its a total cop out.
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  • Teqneek wrote:The statement doesnt even make sense... They were still in a fight for the division.. and the season only had 3 games left. What were teams going to pick up against the Seahawks they hadnt the other 13 games? Besides like someone else said. What does our offense scoring 42 points have to do with their inept attempt?

    Their real offense with Alex Smith scores 13 at home.. their non real offense with Kaep can barely get a TD against our backups? Doesnt sound to promising for his game plan lol


    Wasn't at least 7 of those 42 scored by the special teams?
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  • Marvin, until any of us see a 49er fan post anything non-49er related, we're correct.

    You think I'm saying this to be a dick? I'm saying it because I like discussing the NFL, and discussions should include a variety of viewpoints and angles. All any 49er fan does here is seek out posts defending their teams honor. Its predictable and old.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:Oh. LOL. Is that "all that matters"?

    That is kinda MY entire point. One game means nothing. The game got out of hand early. Cudos to the Seahawks for the win.

    It doesn't mean that the Seahawks are hands down the better team. It means that they were the better team ON THAT DAY.

    I mentioned the GB games, Atlanta...all of that not to say "we beat them, we're better. My entire point was that its Any Given Sunday.

    If Kaep doesn't throw that wild pitch in St. Louis, the Niners would have won by 1.5 games. If David Akers can hit just 1 freakin field goal, it would have been another game.

    I'm sure as Seattle fans you can see many similar circumstances in your games.

    All I have ever been saying is that the 42-13 result you guys have been harping on means far less than you want it to.


    I said right in my post this game doesn't mean a divisional shift, only that after this coming season it could be seen as one. At the moment we really don't know what it means for the coming season. However the game does mean something no matter how much you try and dismiss it. Close games can go either way, with their being plenty of what ifs, but blowouts not so much. I am sorry good teams don't often get taken to the woodshed like that when they are evenly matched or better then their opponent. Sure it could have been a game that got out of hand quickly and the 49ers weren't able to recover from it (like they did against the Falcons and Ravens) or it could mean they were just plain outmatched. At the very minimum it has destroyed any mental edge the 49ers had over the Seahawks up to that point. My guess is that the game means something in between the things getting out of hand and just being outmatched. I personally expect a hard fought series this year, as I said earlier I don't expect a sweep. I fully expect both teams will win their home game.
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  • Giedi wrote:
    Teqneek wrote:The statement doesnt even make sense... They were still in a fight for the division.. and the season only had 3 games left. What were teams going to pick up against the Seahawks they hadnt the other 13 games? Besides like someone else said. What does our offense scoring 42 points have to do with their inept attempt?

    Their real offense with Alex Smith scores 13 at home.. their non real offense with Kaep can barely get a TD against our backups? Doesnt sound to promising for his game plan lol


    Wasn't at least 7 of those 42 scored by the special teams?


    No but, what's that got to do with the price of tea in England anyway?
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  • razor150 wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:Oh. LOL. Is that "all that matters"?

    That is kinda MY entire point. One game means nothing. The game got out of hand early. Cudos to the Seahawks for the win.

    It doesn't mean that the Seahawks are hands down the better team. It means that they were the better team ON THAT DAY.

    I mentioned the GB games, Atlanta...all of that not to say "we beat them, we're better. My entire point was that its Any Given Sunday.

    If Kaep doesn't throw that wild pitch in St. Louis, the Niners would have won by 1.5 games. If David Akers can hit just 1 freakin field goal, it would have been another game.

    I'm sure as Seattle fans you can see many similar circumstances in your games.

    All I have ever been saying is that the 42-13 result you guys have been harping on means far less than you want it to.


    I said right in my post this game doesn't mean a divisional shift, only that after this coming season it could be seen as one. At the moment we really don't know what it means for the coming season. However the game does mean something no matter how much you try and dismiss it. Close games can go either way, with their being plenty of what ifs, but blowouts not so much. I am sorry good teams don't often get taken to the woodshed like that when they are evenly matched or better then their opponent. Sure it could have been a game that got out of hand quickly and the 49ers weren't able to recover from it (like they did against the Falcons and Ravens) or it could mean they were just plain outmatched. At the very minimum it has destroyed any mental edge the 49ers had over the Seahawks up to that point. My guess is that the game means something in between the things getting out of hand and just being outmatched. I personally expect a hard fought series this year, as I said earlier I don't expect a sweep. I fully expect both teams will win their home game.


    I could argue the point about the margin of victory (Niners lost 21-0 against the Bucs in 2010 then the following year beat the Bucs 48-3...any given sunday), but for the most part I agree with you. I think it'll be another divisional split and both teams will be fighting for the division crown.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Shadowhawk wrote:Green Bay gameplanned like they thought Alex Smith was still starting. Just because their coaching staff utterly failed to do their job, it doesn't constitute proof that this was all some master plan of San Francisco's to hide their playoff schemes over the last few weeks of the season.

    To buy this argument you have to believe that SF--a team that, as Marvin so thoroughly pointed out, was suffering injuries to key players and exhausted after two straight road games--was willing to risk losing out on a badly-needed first round bye and even the chance to host a playoff game just to keep their cards close to the vest. Not buying it.


    You not buying it doesn't make it less true.

    I realize you guys don't pay as much attention to the 49ers, interviews with players and coaches and the like (I wouldn't expect you to), but its pretty common knowledge that the 49ers spent alot of time in the off week before the Packer game on installing a number of permiations of the Pistol and read-option. The offense they ran in Seattle was vanilla. That doesn't mean that they didn't try to win. It doesn't mean that they weren't throwing deep.

    It also doesn't mean that the score would have been any different had they NOT been running a vanilla O. It just means that they kept some things in reserve for later games.

    BTW...this isn't the first time they have done this. He often roles out exotic plays and then goes vanilla another week. He'll throw to a DT one week do nothing close to that the next.

    This strategy worked against GB. They had no idea what was coming. It clearly DIDN'T work in Seattle. Had it cost them the division it would have been a huge mistake. Thankfully, it didn't and they surprised the hell out of GB. I just remember the stunned look on Clay Mattews face after the game saying that they hadn't seen any of that stuff on tape.


    You haven't proven that it is true. If you are correct that Roman came up with some new tricks for the Packers game, good for him. But the Yahoo article that launched this thread wasn't talking about Roman's game plan for the Packers game, it was making the claim A) that he dialed back the playbook in the last two games of the season and B) did it to keep from showing his hand to potential playoff teams. Not the same thing; for all we know, Roman sat down after the regular season and said, "the usual stuff isn't working. I need to try something new." All you have proved is that he tried some new things in the playoffs. You haven't proven that he ran a "vanilla O" to end the regular season. And the reason why I am skeptical that he did is because that would be a very foolish thing to do with a division title and a first-round bye up for grabs.

    You're right that I don't pay as much attention to the 49ers as you do, but I have been a Seahawks season ticket holder for 14 years, and I can honestly say I have never seen a quarterback look so rattled and shaken as Kaepernick looked last December. I don't say it to slam him--I expect he will put together a much better game in Seattle this season--but he looked completely lost out there. What you call a vanilla gameplan, I call the result of a quarterback who, for that game at least, was completely overmatched.

    I think the shellshock was more the defense being run over by Seattle and the Seattle special teams creaming the 49ers, than the QB getting shell shocked. They are a power run team, and if you get a lead on them, they start to panic and cant to their regular routine of winning the game in the 2nd half with the power run game. Seattle did a great job of getting the jump on them early and they started to break down and panic and get away from their game plan. It happens. Anytime the score margin is in the plus 14 differential, *something* has happned that the losing team didn't expect. Most NFL teams are within a 14 point differential of each other, I think the parity in the NFL is that close.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Marvin, I am sure you are well versed in all things Niner, though I have probably watched all their games twice myself. However, you appear to know damn near nothing about the rest of the NFL, like most Niner fans we see here.

    I personally think Roman is pretty smart. So smart that he watches how other teams play against pistol looks and tailors his game plan quite well. The Patriots have a pretty effective scheme against the pistol, having seen it twice the year before with Tebow, and absolutely killing it the second time they saw it. Seattle held Cam Newton to three offensive points earlier in 2012 and in the few looks in the first half Roman did use it, we killed the look. Makes sense, Seattle practices against it every day. As it turns out, no pistol QB scored more than 14 on us last year in three games. Besides, the Niners were too far behind to pose a serious run threat from any look, so why use the Pistol? The Cards have pretty good edge speed too, and in week 17 it makes perfect sense to not show a lot of what you have planned in two more weeks against a team unlikely to put up more than 20 (the Cards). But if you think Kaep's production against the Pack has anything to do with not showing them plays, you are daft. The Pack couldn't put a finger on him, only 4 of his yards were after contact. Sometimes coordinators just shit the bed by not being ready or in Capers case, lining up in 4 and 5 man man coverage looks, which just made QB runs easy. In Kaepernicks first game vs the Bears, same thing, a defensive coordinator very unprepared for Kaepernick.

    But Roman isn't so smart that he didn't get his car towed when hanging with his buddy Silver.

    See Marvin, how it's done? There were true facts about 4 teams besides the Niners and Hawks in my post. Go drop the 30 bucks or so on a rewind package, and try to watch games not involving your Niners. You just might become an NFL fan instead of a blind homer.


    Wow. Dude you know NOTHING about my knowledge of the game. Nothing.

    You think that I am somehow unaware of other teams running the Pistol? You think I don't know that it was Chris Ault at Nevada who created the thing? You think I don't know that when it was initially installed there was no read-option element to it and that was a dded a year into Kaeps time there? You think I don't know that Washington ran it the most this season? You think that I don't know that while Seattle began runing it later in the year that Wilson had NEVER run it in college?

    You tyhink that because I am talking Niners that I know nothing about the NFL at large?

    Dude, you don't have a clue who you're dealing with. I've been recoirding the draft since 1990. I remember the days Seattle drafted Dan McGuire and Rick Mirer. I've been a football fan since 1984. I remember Chris Warren and even Steve Largent. I remember Warren Moon when he was first in the CFL and then in Houston...you know long before he was in the media in Seattle.

    Just test me on this.

    The OC of a team comes out and says they scaled back their offense and all of you call him a liar even if the numbers seem to bear that out. I am a blind homer though because I agree with him and dare to tread on the 42-13 mantra and happen to think that Kaep isn't a timid little boy.

    You guys are nuts sometimes.


    Oh, you are a fan of your team, no doubt. But knowlege? I knew you lacked in that the second you put out your 4 bullet points of excuses why the Niners lost that game. You list did not include outplayed and outcoached, but did include tired and hurt. Weak. And bullshit. We lost to the Cardinals week 1. I was there. Got both outcoached and outplayed, just barely. Lost to the Rams. We executed better but got outcoached by Fisher. Lost to the Lions, their QB took advantage of our biggest problem, linebacker coverage and the nickel. Lost to the Dolphins, they kicked our ass in the trenches. Lost to your Niners, once again, your O-line pushed our guys around. Alex tried to lose it for you, but our offense could not catch. Lost to the Falcons, bad first half coaching and Matt Ryan did his thing in the last 30. He's good, I know because I watched a dozen Falcon games too. That is all distilled versions, but you get my drift. Sometimes you lose for reasons besides the dumb ass mantra you used of "our defense didn't get off the bus." It is a bullshit way to say you didn't lose, you beat yourself.
    But yeah, tape the draft. That will prove you know the ins and outs of football.
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  • Giedi wrote:
    Shadowhawk wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:[quote="Shadowhawk"]
    Green Bay gameplanned like they thought Alex Smith was still starting. Just because their coaching staff utterly failed to do their job, it doesn't constitute proof that this was all some master plan of San Francisco's to hide their playoff schemes over the last few weeks of the season.

    To buy this argument you have to believe that SF--a team that, as Marvin so thoroughly pointed out, was suffering injuries to key players and exhausted after two straight road games--was willing to risk losing out on a badly-needed first round bye and even the chance to host a playoff game just to keep their cards close to the vest. Not buying it.


    You not buying it doesn't make it less true.

    I realize you guys don't pay as much attention to the 49ers, interviews with players and coaches and the like (I wouldn't expect you to), but its pretty common knowledge that the 49ers spent alot of time in the off week before the Packer game on installing a number of permiations of the Pistol and read-option. The offense they ran in Seattle was vanilla. That doesn't mean that they didn't try to win. It doesn't mean that they weren't throwing deep.

    It also doesn't mean that the score would have been any different had they NOT been running a vanilla O. It just means that they kept some things in reserve for later games.

    BTW...this isn't the first time they have done this. He often roles out exotic plays and then goes vanilla another week. He'll throw to a DT one week do nothing close to that the next.

    This strategy worked against GB. They had no idea what was coming. It clearly DIDN'T work in Seattle. Had it cost them the division it would have been a huge mistake. Thankfully, it didn't and they surprised the hell out of GB. I just remember the stunned look on Clay Mattews face after the game saying that they hadn't seen any of that stuff on tape.


    You haven't proven that it is true. If you are correct that Roman came up with some new tricks for the Packers game, good for him. But the Yahoo article that launched this thread wasn't talking about Roman's game plan for the Packers game, it was making the claim A) that he dialed back the playbook in the last two games of the season and B) did it to keep from showing his hand to potential playoff teams. Not the same thing; for all we know, Roman sat down after the regular season and said, "the usual stuff isn't working. I need to try something new." All you have proved is that he tried some new things in the playoffs. You haven't proven that he ran a "vanilla O" to end the regular season. And the reason why I am skeptical that he did is because that would be a very foolish thing to do with a division title and a first-round bye up for grabs.

    You're right that I don't pay as much attention to the 49ers as you do, but I have been a Seahawks season ticket holder for 14 years, and I can honestly say I have never seen a quarterback look so rattled and shaken as Kaepernick looked last December. I don't say it to slam him--I expect he will put together a much better game in Seattle this season--but he looked completely lost out there. What you call a vanilla gameplan, I call the result of a quarterback who, for that game at least, was completely overmatched.

    I think the shellshock was more the defense being run over by Seattle and the Seattle special teams creaming the 49ers, than the QB getting shell shocked. They are a power run team, and if you get a lead on them, they start to panic and cant to their regular routine of winning the game in the 2nd half with the power run game. Seattle did a great job of getting the jump on them early and they started to break down and panic and get away from their game plan. It happens. Anytime the score margin is in the plus 14 differential, *something* has happned that the losing team didn't expect. Most NFL teams are within a 14 point differential of each other, I think the parity in the NFL is that close.[/quote]


    I was there. I saw the deer in headlights, hoofs over ears look.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Shadowhawk wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:uh...nothing wrong with what I said. You just don't like it because you want to believe that Wilson can't be shaken and Kaep can.


    Hate to break it to you, Marv, but only one person on this thread has made the claim that his team's quarterback can't be shaken. Here's a hint: it wasn't me.


    Actually, they have. That was what I was responding to.

    When anyone here or even Seattle fans on Niner boards compare Wilson and Kaep they always like to talk about Kaep being shaken in Seattle and that Wilson has never been shaken. You can't say Wilson is taller or faster or has a bigger arm....so you go to intangibles.

    Wilson has them. No question. Its just wishful thinking tho that Kaep doesn't.

    Wilson is a great young QB. No question. Given their respective ages, I'd want Kaep more than anyone else right now followed by Wilson...altho Rodgers isn't that old so he might trump them both. Brady and Manning are better, but also far older.

    I have nothing but good things to say about Wilson.


    No, it wasn't what you were responding to. You went off because I had the audacity to suggest that Kaepernick was rattled and shaken in Seattle. Nobody ON THIS THREAD said that Wilson can't be shaken. I never said Wilson can't be shaken, despite your trying to put words in my mouth. But you said point blank that Kaepernick can't be shaken. THAT is wishful thinking.

    Getting back to the topic of the thread, Scottemojo is correct: there are many reasons why San Francisco might used the Pistol as much during the last three weeks of the season, and as such you can't point to the fact that they did as proof that they did it to "scale back their playbook" for the playoffs. They could have done it for any number of reasons. So if you are looking for anyone here to admit that they are wrong, sorry. You haven't proven us wrong.
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  • CamanoIslandJQ wrote:RW had the playbook significantly limited until the second half of the season. From that point on it became evident that the Seahawks had found their FIRST ever franchise QB (the 49-er's have had several back in the day). That is what makes this fan very jacked up for the coming seasons. Look at RW's stats from the first half vs the second half to see why. I liked Kaepernick when he was available in the draft, but our guys thankfully went in a different direction. I will say that Kaepernick has a pretty good chance to be a *very good* QB, but the Seahawks have a QB that has a chance to be a *great* QB as he continues to improve and excell at the position. That's what has all of us Seahawks fans really, really excited.

    I think it's also good for the entire NFL as a whole. The more great QB's on teams, the more aerial shows there will be, and I'm sure the aerial shootouts will bring out the fireworks and ratings. It's a win win for the NFL. Specially if the teams meet in the playoffs. That will be something if both organizations pull that off.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Marvin, I am sure you are well versed in all things Niner, though I have probably watched all their games twice myself. However, you appear to know damn near nothing about the rest of the NFL, like most Niner fans we see here.

    I personally think Roman is pretty smart. So smart that he watches how other teams play against pistol looks and tailors his game plan quite well. The Patriots have a pretty effective scheme against the pistol, having seen it twice the year before with Tebow, and absolutely killing it the second time they saw it. Seattle held Cam Newton to three offensive points earlier in 2012 and in the few looks in the first half Roman did use it, we killed the look. Makes sense, Seattle practices against it every day. As it turns out, no pistol QB scored more than 14 on us last year in three games. Besides, the Niners were too far behind to pose a serious run threat from any look, so why use the Pistol? The Cards have pretty good edge speed too, and in week 17 it makes perfect sense to not show a lot of what you have planned in two more weeks against a team unlikely to put up more than 20 (the Cards). But if you think Kaep's production against the Pack has anything to do with not showing them plays, you are daft. The Pack couldn't put a finger on him, only 4 of his yards were after contact. Sometimes coordinators just shit the bed by not being ready or in Capers case, lining up in 4 and 5 man man coverage looks, which just made QB runs easy. In Kaepernicks first game vs the Bears, same thing, a defensive coordinator very unprepared for Kaepernick.

    But Roman isn't so smart that he didn't get his car towed when hanging with his buddy Silver.

    See Marvin, how it's done? There were true facts about 4 teams besides the Niners and Hawks in my post. Go drop the 30 bucks or so on a rewind package, and try to watch games not involving your Niners. You just might become an NFL fan instead of a blind homer.


    Wow. Dude you know NOTHING about my knowledge of the game. Nothing.

    You think that I am somehow unaware of other teams running the Pistol? You think I don't know that it was Chris Ault at Nevada who created the thing? You think I don't know that when it was initially installed there was no read-option element to it and that was a dded a year into Kaeps time there? You think I don't know that Washington ran it the most this season? You think that I don't know that while Seattle began runing it later in the year that Wilson had NEVER run it in college?

    You tyhink that because I am talking Niners that I know nothing about the NFL at large?

    Dude, you don't have a clue who you're dealing with. I've been recoirding the draft since 1990. I remember the days Seattle drafted Dan McGuire and Rick Mirer. I've been a football fan since 1984. I remember Chris Warren and even Steve Largent. I remember Warren Moon when he was first in the CFL and then in Houston...you know long before he was in the media in Seattle.

    Just test me on this.

    The OC of a team comes out and says they scaled back their offense and all of you call him a liar even if the numbers seem to bear that out. I am a blind homer though because I agree with him and dare to tread on the 42-13 mantra and happen to think that Kaep isn't a timid little boy.

    You guys are nuts sometimes.


    Oh, you are a fan of your team, no doubt. But knowlege? I knew you lacked in that the second you put out your 4 bullet points of excuses why the Niners lost that game. You list did not include outplayed and outcoached, but did include tired and hurt. Weak. And bullshit. We lost to the Cardinals week 1. I was there. Got both outcoached and outplayed, just barely. Lost to the Rams. We executed better but got outcoached by Fisher. Lost to the Lions, their QB took advantage of our biggest problem, linebacker coverage and the nickel. Lost to the Dolphins, they kicked our ass in the trenches. Lost to your Niners, once again, your O-line pushed our guys around. Alex tried to lose it for you, but our offense could not catch. Lost to the Falcons, bad first half coaching and Matt Ryan did his thing in the last 30. He's good, I know because I watched a dozen Falcon games too. That is all distilled versions, but you get my drift. Sometimes you lose for reasons besides the dumb ass mantra you used of "our defense didn't get off the bus." It is a bullshit way to say you didn't lose, you beat yourself.
    But yeah, tape the draft. That will prove you know the ins and outs of football.


    Oh....sorry I didn't add it, but I do think they were outcoached that night...particularly if Roman scaled back the O. Saying that the D didn't get off the bus isn't an excuse. Its TRUE. They SUCKED that night like I'd seldom seen before. They continued to suck all the way through the playoffs. In fact, the suckage started in the second half the week BEFORE vs New England.

    Man...you have GOT to get off this knowledge rant. Its just LAME. It's a TOTAL copout. It's the insult you use when you don't have a better argument.
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  • And you still have added nothing.
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    Scottemojo
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  • Giedi wrote:I think the shellshock was more the defense being run over by Seattle and the Seattle special teams creaming the 49ers, than the QB getting shell shocked. They are a power run team, and if you get a lead on them, they start to panic and cant to their regular routine of winning the game in the 2nd half with the power run game. Seattle did a great job of getting the jump on them early and they started to break down and panic and get away from their game plan. It happens. Anytime the score margin is in the plus 14 differential, *something* has happned that the losing team didn't expect. Most NFL teams are within a 14 point differential of each other, I think the parity in the NFL is that close.


    Personally, from my POV in the stands and re-watching the game on TV later, my opinion is that Kaepernick was shell shocked, too. Not just because of the delay of game penalties that Marvin mentioned, though I believe that's part of it. To give just one example, early in the second quarter (right before the blocked field goal) Kaepernick threw a dangerous pass into the back of the end zone that probably should have been intercepted. No big deal; rookie mistake. But in the fourth quarter, he throws the EXACT SAME PASS and gets picked off by Richard Sherman. That's more than a rookie mistake: that's a quarterback who has been completely thrown for a loop.

    Now, as I said before I expect that Kaepernick will turn in a better performance in his next trip to CenturyLink Field. But the young QB I saw that night was shaken to the bone. There's no shame in that: if he's the kind of quarterback 49er fans think he is, a night like that will make him better in the long run. But I still stand by my opinion that San Francisco's woeful offensive performance that night was the result of a quarterback who was rattled by a tough defense and a deafening crowd, and not the result of an attempt to scale down the playbook. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
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    Shadowhawk
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:No, it wasn't what you were responding to. You went off because I had the audacity to suggest that Kaepernick was rattled and shaken in Seattle. Nobody ON THIS THREAD said that Wilson can't be shaken. I never said Wilson can't be shaken, despite your trying to put words in my mouth. But you said point blank that Kaepernick can't be shaken. THAT is wishful thinking.

    Getting back to the topic of the thread, Scottemojo is correct: there are many reasons why San Francisco might used the Pistol as much during the last three weeks of the season, and as such you can't point to the fact that they did as proof that they did it to "scale back their playbook" for the playoffs. They could have done it for any number of reasons. So if you are looking for anyone here to admit that they are wrong, sorry. You haven't proven us wrong.


    Just looked back over it and you are correct on that first part...it wasn't in THAT post. Someone did talk about how they were amazed because Wilson had never been shaken. This thread is now 8 pages long though so I'm not going to go every post. Feel free to prove me wrong. I have to apologize because I'm actually trying to pull off multiple conversations at once on multiple sites. I am not too arrogant to admit that I sometimes get them mixed up. :D

    Here's a better question tho...are you suggesting that Wilson CAN be shaken?
    Marvin49
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:
    Giedi wrote:I think the shellshock was more the defense being run over by Seattle and the Seattle special teams creaming the 49ers, than the QB getting shell shocked. They are a power run team, and if you get a lead on them, they start to panic and cant to their regular routine of winning the game in the 2nd half with the power run game. Seattle did a great job of getting the jump on them early and they started to break down and panic and get away from their game plan. It happens. Anytime the score margin is in the plus 14 differential, *something* has happned that the losing team didn't expect. Most NFL teams are within a 14 point differential of each other, I think the parity in the NFL is that close.


    Personally, from my POV in the stands and re-watching the game on TV later, my opinion is that Kaepernick was shell shocked, too. Not just because of the delay of game penalties that Marvin mentioned, though I believe that's part of it. To give just one example, early in the second quarter (right before the blocked field goal) Kaepernick threw a dangerous pass into the back of the end zone that probably should have been intercepted. No big deal; rookie mistake. But in the fourth quarter, he throws the EXACT SAME PASS and gets picked off by Richard Sherman. That's more than a rookie mistake: that's a quarterback who has been completely thrown for a loop.

    Now, as I said before I expect that Kaepernick will turn in a better performance in his next trip to CenturyLink Field. But the young QB I saw that night was shaken to the bone. There's no shame in that: if he's the kind of quarterback 49er fans think he is, a night like that will make him better in the long run. But I still stand by my opinion that San Francisco's woeful offensive performance that night was the result of a quarterback who was rattled by a tough defense and a deafening crowd, and not the result of an attempt to scale down the playbook. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.


    I remember the play...and (big surprise) I don't think he was shell-shocked.

    I think he was just trying to make something happen and Sherman made a good play on the ball. If there is one criticism I have of Kaep right now is that he hasn't yet mastered the red-zone. Most of his TDs came from outside 20 yards. He had the same issue in the Super Bowl.

    Additionally, while I DO think the O was scaled down, I don't attribute the loss to that. The crowd certainly played a part in the loss. There is a reason why Seattle was 8-0 at home and 3-5 anywhere else. That building is nuts.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    razor150 wrote:I said right in my post this game doesn't mean a divisional shift, only that after this coming season it could be seen as one. At the moment we really don't know what it means for the coming season. However the game does mean something no matter how much you try and dismiss it. Close games can go either way, with their being plenty of what ifs, but blowouts not so much. I am sorry good teams don't often get taken to the woodshed like that when they are evenly matched or better then their opponent. Sure it could have been a game that got out of hand quickly and the 49ers weren't able to recover from it (like they did against the Falcons and Ravens) or it could mean they were just plain outmatched. At the very minimum it has destroyed any mental edge the 49ers had over the Seahawks up to that point. My guess is that the game means something in between the things getting out of hand and just being outmatched. I personally expect a hard fought series this year, as I said earlier I don't expect a sweep. I fully expect both teams will win their home game.


    I could argue the point about the margin of victory (Niners lost 21-0 against the Bucs in 2010 then the following year beat the Bucs 48-3...any given sunday), but for the most part I agree with you. I think it'll be another divisional split and both teams will be fighting for the division crown.


    I think the biggest shift in your example about the Bucs is what a difference having a decent coach makes. The 49ers were laying eggs under Singletary every year, even against bad teams. I think most people who know anything about football knew the 49ers had an awesome roster that was hamstrung by it's head coach before Harbaugh took over. The 49ers turning the score around like that isn't that surprising in retrospect. Also, if memory serves correctly, the Bucs kind of sucked in 2011 as well.
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