Let's Talk Mariners

Can I also just say that I think Ackley is gonna prove to disappoint again this year. His new batting form has seemed to make him worse.

Blitzer88":3nvum0pd said:

Can I also just say that I think Ackley is gonna prove to disappoint again this year. His new batting form has seemed to make him worse.

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been a rough start for 4 players that need to be better for us to win games (Ackely, Montero, Smoak, Seeger). Maybe Safeco and Astros pitching (although I believe we draw Humber... of the perfect game against the Mariners Humber... tonight)

The Mariners last year did a great job of rejuvenating crappy pitchers' careers by providing them with their best games of their careers.

Cannot believe I am about to speak up for Smoak, but at least he is hitting the ball hard. That will eventually lead to more base hits as long as he keeps it up. I am not as worried about Seeger (for some reason) as much as I am worried about Montero and Ackley. Morse and Morales are doing their job, and at least Michael Saunders is doing his part so far. I will be more worried if these guys fail to perform against the Astros.

Smoak has been making some solid contact, which is all you can ask for. It's extremely early in the season, and even after the Astros series it's not enough time to make a judgment about how these guys are doing. Give it a couple of months and see where they're at in early June.

jkitsune":2cmfpwnd said:

Smoak has been making some solid contact, which is all you can ask for. It's extremely early in the season, and even after the Astros series it's not enough time to make a judgment about how these guys are doing. Give it a couple of months and see where they're at in early June.

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Yep, agreed.

Good night for Saunders! Granted, it was the Astros, but still impressive.

Normally I would say give it a couple months, but these guys have had long enough. Put up or shut up. One month max and if they are still hitting .200 or worse than I think it is okay to worry. Smoak and Ackley especially.

Good win in the home opener, but the preseason bats seem to have suddenly dried up somewhat. That's disturbing, considering their track record over the past few years.

TheLargentLine":anqza5kr said:

Normally I would say give it a couple months, but these guys have had long enough. Put up or shut up. One month max and if they are still hitting .200 or worse than I think it is okay to worry. Smoak and Ackley especially.

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If you like, but it's probably wasted effort. A month in baseball is, what, 24 games? About an 8th of the season? That's like 2 games in football. Impatience has led to a lot of catastrophic moves in Mariners history, and while I'm certainly nearing my threshold with Smoak, Ackley is only in his 2nd full year in the majors. Same with Montero, if I'm not mistaken. These guys have all the talent in the world, and Michael Saunders is a great example of a talented player taking a few years to figure it out. They're not players you want to give up on unless you're pretty damn sure it's not going to work out with them, and no matter what happens with Ackley this year, I don't think we can say that.

At any rate, the failure of highly touted young prospects like Smoak is catastrophic to the franchise's development, so I don't blame them for giving him a pretty long leash before calling it good.

Am I the only one that has noticed the Michael Morse fails in the clutch? Last night, bases loaded and grounded into a double play. Sunday in Shitcago he came up with guys in scoring position twice and struck out both times after a solo homer in the first. I see why he only has 8 RBI to go with those 5 HRs. It's pissing me off already.

Man Ackley looks nothing like the guy we sawe his first year. Smoak is still sucking. His major league career appears to be just about over. Looks like the league has caught up with Seeger. Montero doesn't look like he'll amount to a hill of dog manure. On the positive side, Morales hits, doesn't he? Hope they don't just start pitching around him cuz the rest of the lineup blows. Saunders looks good......so far. Ryan hitting a bit so far and considering his fielding any hitting from him is a bonus. Gutierrez healthy and if he stays that way he will produce.

Agree with jkitsune that you can't give up yet on Ackley, Montero and Seeger but shit they look bad so far after the same last year. Smoak though, as I said above it's very close to time to put a fork in his career.

hawksfansinceday1":1957bz7g said:

Am I the only one that has noticed the Michael Morse fails in the clutch? Last night, bases loaded and grounded into a double play. Sunday in Shitcago he came up with guys in scoring position twice and struck out both times after a solo homer in the first. I see why he only has 8 RBI to go with those 5 HRs. It's pissing me off already.

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Still way too early to say that he fails in the clutch. I saw him come through quite a few times for the Nats, and I am sure he will for us too.

jkitsune":1957bz7g said:

TheLargentLine":1957bz7g said:

Normally I would say give it a couple months, but these guys have had long enough. Put up or shut up. One month max and if they are still hitting .200 or worse than I think it is okay to worry. Smoak and Ackley especially.

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If you like, but it's probably wasted effort. A month in baseball is, what, 24 games? About an 8th of the season? That's like 2 games in football.

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Being too patient could kill us too. Comparing it to two games in the NFL is not accurate. In a months time, Ackley and Smoak will see somewhere around 90 - 100 at bats. Maybe a little more. Add that to spring training at bats and cuts taken during the offseason.. well, I don't see any reason why they should need more than a month.

I am not saying that we should dump these guys after a month or anything like that. I am simply saying that being worried about these guys would be justified.

Ackley scares me the most because he came into the big leagues red hot and completely capable of hitting around .300 and there was even talk of him possibly winning some batting awards in the future. Now, he has completed changed his swing and is starting off ice cold. A huge part of the game is self confidence, and I think Ackley lost that sometime last season. I hope he regains it because I like Ackley and I know he is capable! Smoak, on the other hand, is at least ripping the ball and I think his hard work will begin to show.

Good Lord Dustin Ackley looks terrible at the plate. I saw him when he came up and he looked like a player.

What is with the bat on the shoulder , hands close to his waist , very upright , neutral stance .... When he swings most players turn the lead shoulder away from the pitch a bit and rotate the waist back with the arms whipping through the hitting zone. He has is just throwing his arms at the ball with no body at all.

Who screwed this guy up? He really is a mess

TheLargentLine":t9vnc81a said:

hawksfansinceday1":t9vnc81a said:

Am I the only one that has noticed the Michael Morse fails in the clutch? Last night, bases loaded and grounded into a double play. Sunday in Shitcago he came up with guys in scoring position twice and struck out both times after a solo homer in the first. I see why he only has 8 RBI to go with those 5 HRs. It's pissing me off already.

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Still way too early to say that he fails in the clutch. I saw him come through quite a few times for the Nats, and I am sure he will for us too.

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Agree, but it's on my radar already. Drive in some damned runs Morse!!

Happypuppy":25xbk9uh said:

Good Lord Dustin Ackley looks terrible at the plate. I saw him when he came up and he looked like a player.

What is with the bat on the shoulder , hands close to his waist , very upright , neutral stance .... When he swings most players turn the lead shoulder away from the pitch a bit and rotate the waist back with the arms whipping through the hitting zone. He has is just throwing his arms at the ball with no body at all.

Who screwed this guy up? He really is a mess

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It sure looks like he has been screwed up. Maybe he needs to tell everyone to buzz off and just hit like he has his whole life. <shrug>

hawksfansinceday1":3mlb4bgh said:

Happypuppy":3mlb4bgh said:

Good Lord Dustin Ackley looks terrible at the plate. I saw him when he came up and he looked like a player.

What is with the bat on the shoulder , hands close to his waist , very upright , neutral stance .... When he swings most players turn the lead shoulder away from the pitch a bit and rotate the waist back with the arms whipping through the hitting zone. He has is just throwing his arms at the ball with no body at all.

Who screwed this guy up? He really is a mess

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It sure looks like he has been screwed up. Maybe he needs to tell everyone to buzz off and just hit like he has his whole life. <shrug>

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Ms have a history of trying to remake players in their own screwed up way.

Remember they spent 2 years trying to make Ichiro change his style cause they wanted more home runs & more conventional hitting. One of the best hitters ever in baseball and they wanted him to change and be a Mariner style hitter. We know how well that worked out.

:roll:

Carter Capps will be a top teir bullpen/closer role for years to come. I can only hope for our team. I can see him as trade material come around the all star break. With his release point and his arm rotation batters can't pick up the ball as easy it seems. Call me crazy.

TheLargentLine":22ig1r3w said:

hawksfansinceday1":22ig1r3w said:

Am I the only one that has noticed the Michael Morse fails in the clutch? Last night, bases loaded and grounded into a double play. Sunday in Shitcago he came up with guys in scoring position twice and struck out both times after a solo homer in the first. I see why he only has 8 RBI to go with those 5 HRs. It's pissing me off already.

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Still way too early to say that he fails in the clutch. I saw him come through quite a few times for the Nats, and I am sure he will for us too.

jkitsune":22ig1r3w said:

TheLargentLine":22ig1r3w said:

Normally I would say give it a couple months, but these guys have had long enough. Put up or shut up. One month max and if they are still hitting .200 or worse than I think it is okay to worry. Smoak and Ackley especially.

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If you like, but it's probably wasted effort. A month in baseball is, what, 24 games? About an 8th of the season? That's like 2 games in football.

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Being too patient could kill us too. Comparing it to two games in the NFL is not accurate. In a months time, Ackley and Smoak will see somewhere around 90 - 100 at bats. Maybe a little more. Add that to spring training at bats and cuts taken during the offseason.. well, I don't see any reason why they should need more than a month.

I am not saying that we should dump these guys after a month or anything like that. I am simply saying that being worried about these guys would be justified.

Ackley scares me the most because he came into the big leagues red hot and completely capable of hitting around .300 and there was even talk of him possibly winning some batting awards in the future. Now, he has completed changed his swing and is starting off ice cold. A huge part of the game is self confidence, and I think Ackley lost that sometime last season. I hope he regains it because I like Ackley and I know he is capable! Smoak, on the other hand, is at least ripping the ball and I think his hard work will begin to show.

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Worrying is justified, sure, but my point is mostly that it's very easy to be too reactionary in baseball. That the number of at-bats is 100 doesn't make it a good enough sample size, it's still a tiny fraction of one season and has little predictive value (but not none) of what the remainder of his season will look like. People who have All-Star quality first halves have awful second halves, and vice-versa, and all you can reasonably hope for (IMO) is that a player's process is good. You hope he swings at good pitches, lays off bad pitches, makes solid contact (and hits line drives), etc. Whether or not these things turn into a high batting average or more rbis or 'hitting in the clutch' is more luck and statistical fluctuation than anything.

Far be it from me to tell ANYONE how to watch baseball, or what judgments to make. But deciding that 'the league has caught up to Seager,' 'Smoak's career is over,' 'Ackley is screwed up' based on the current sample is reactionary - just as certain as hypothetical statements (not necessarily made by any posters here) that 'Morales is going to have a career year' are reactionary. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. He's had a good start, but two games ago his stats looked awful. We as fans tend to over-react to the ebbs and flows of player performance, which can make watching sports fun... or torturous.

All of that said, I definitely resonate with the drive to negativity with regards to the Mariners. It has been an awful decade for Mariners baseball, and the struggles of Smoak, Montero, and Ackley have snuffed some of the hope for brighter days which have gotten us through some tough years. So if it feels better to freak out on these players now, by all means, have at. We're all in the same boat here.

Man....Mauer is struggling tonight!

Blitzer88":apftcd6z said:

Man....Mauer is struggling tonight!

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This is brutal to watch. Fortunately, there's no reason to believe it's predictive of how his career will pan out!