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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:37 pm 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
SacHawk2.0 wrote:
Cloud Atlas - Seriously, if you guys haven't seen it you should.


Haven't seen it. Heard less than flattering things from people I normally trust with movie opinions. If you burn me on this I will find you and I will destroy you.


Kind of harsh there Zeb. It's a good movie, but one you definitely have to pay attention to. Don't think you can cook dinner while it's on and follow what's happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Mallrats

She's Out of My League

A Time To Kill

Crazy Stupid Love

And the biggest of all: Safety Not Guaranteed
You want to enjoy an indie movie with great acting, a cool plot and some very funny scenes then check this one out. Total box office take was a whopping $4.0 million, which was huge because the production cost was a measly $750K. Seriously check it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:12 pm 
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SacHawk2.0 wrote:
Zebulon Dak wrote:
SacHawk2.0 wrote:
Cloud Atlas - Seriously, if you guys haven't seen it you should.


Haven't seen it. Heard less than flattering things from people I normally trust with movie opinions. If you burn me on this I will find you and I will destroy you.


Kind of harsh there Zeb. It's a good movie, but one you definitely have to pay attention to. Don't think you can cook dinner while it's on and follow what's happening.


Hahaha I won't really destroy you. I've promised to only use my powers for good. Plus, if I watch it and end up liking it, then I can bring back this thread and give you kudos and call out anybody who may disagree like Wenhawk.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:30 am 
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Bernie. Watch this if you haven't yet.

Indie game: The movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Be kind, rewind is another.

The most recent Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy with Martin Freeman was fantastic and underrated, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:33 pm 
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Prince of Tides. Nolte was great in that.


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:25 pm 
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Inside Job - Spike Lee's middle-finger to Hollywood..showing he can make a $100M box office hit. I loved it.


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:10 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
Inside Job - Spike Lee's middle-finger to Hollywood..showing he can make a $100M box office hit. I loved it.


I think you mean "Inside Man", and it wasn't underrated, it performed very well at the box office and was fairly highly rated by critics.

You're a hack.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:20 pm 
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This thread has demonstrated to me that most people don't know the dictionary definition of "underrated".

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:24 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
This thread has demonstrated to me that most people don't know the dictionary definition of "underrated".


Yep. Sometimes I think there's just you and me left, Jim.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:38 pm 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
This thread has demonstrated to me that most people don't know the dictionary definition of "underrated".


Yep. Sometimes I think there's just you and me left, Jim.


Agreed--Hey, wait, I see what you did there.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:40 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
This thread has demonstrated to me that most people don't know the dictionary definition of "underrated".


Doesnt underrated have a different value to each and every one of us? If I think Gigli is the greatest movie in the history of movies, but you think its only the 2nd best movie in the history of movies, then in my eye you have underrated Gigli.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:41 pm 
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JSeahawks wrote:
Doesnt underrated have a different value to each and every one of us? If I think Gigli is the greatest movie in the history of movies, but you think its only the 2nd best movie in the history of movies, then in my eye you have underrated Gigli.


No, it doesn't. Being underrated has a specific meaning that one can demonstrate with box office sales figures, DVD/Blu-ray sales data, number of awards won (and the importance of them), etc.

How good or bad these movies are, on the other hand, is completely subjective, and I agree with you wholeheartedly in regards to that; but not whether they're underrated or not, in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:07 am 
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omg gigli is totes the g.o.a.t. by far.

Roland's correct though. I would also submit the word of mouth evidence; we all know that many people think Usual Suspects, Big Lebowski, Memento & Donnie Darko are the greatest movies ever made, hence they are not underrated.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:10 am 
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I'm coloring within the lines here, guys. Honest!? Please!


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:18 am 
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Quantum of Solace.

I think I'm the only one who likes that Bond film.


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:42 am 
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pehawk wrote:
Quantum of Solace.

I think I'm the only one who likes that Bond film.


I really liked it. I've liked all three of the Daniel Craig Bonds.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:52 am 
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I like them too. Casino Royale its favorite. They are all a bit long and drawn out though. Quantum is probably my least favorite.


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Romeo is Bleeding...Gary Oldman Gets used up by Lena Olin.

A River Runs Through It...Brad Pitt, before he was a star, and acted well with others.

Gettysburg...Star studded cast, an accurate recreation.

The Border...Jack Nicholson branching out in a more reflective role.

Carnal Knowledge...Jack Nicholson, Art Garfunkle, and a naked Ann Margret.

A History of Violence...Viggo Mortensen, Ed Harris

Hidalgo...Viggo Mortensen, and an awesome horse.


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:37 am 
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Speaking of Viggo - Eastern Promises? That was a great film, and I'd say quite underrated.

Also, Cronenberg's adaptation of "The Naked Lunch".

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:52 am 
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Clifford is an underrated one. And, I HATE Martin Short, but, I giggle at that flick. Change Up count as a underrated comedy?


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:35 am 
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pehawk wrote:
Clifford is an underrated one. And, I HATE Martin Short, but, I giggle at that flick. Change Up count as a underrated comedy?


Martin Short is underrated. Jiminy Glick is hilarious.


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:38 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:00 am 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
JSeahawks wrote:
Doesnt underrated have a different value to each and every one of us? If I think Gigli is the greatest movie in the history of movies, but you think its only the 2nd best movie in the history of movies, then in my eye you have underrated Gigli.


No, it doesn't. Being underrated has a specific meaning that one can demonstrate with box office sales figures, DVD/Blu-ray sales data, number of awards won (and the importance of them), etc.

How good or bad these movies are, on the other hand, is completely subjective, and I agree with you wholeheartedly in regards to that; but not whether they're underrated or not, in my opinion.


un·der·rate (ndr-rt)
tr.v. un·der·rat·ed, un·der·rat·ing, un·der·rates
To rate too low; underestimate.

Actually, J's example fits the definition, not yours. Trying to apply some sort of linear or concrete system to this discussion is impractical and impossible.

Sales figures = concrete but requires funding to advertise so more people know about it, which means it can be influenced by forces not related to the quality of the film. I'm surprised to see that you think that sales are a reflection of quality and/or importance.

And, Awards = arbitrary. And how do you determine the importance of a given award?

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:18 am 
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Absolut, by the dictionary definition of "underrated", every single movie in the history of man is underrated, because you can find at least a handful of people that will consider any movie you can think of to be underrated. That's not the practical meaning of the word.

If that's your argument, then let's just post the IMDB top 250 movies list in here.

I also never indicated that sales are a reflection of quality or importance, both of which are not directly related to whether a film is underrated or overrated. (I actually said they were subjective, so basically, the opposite of your assertion.) A horrible film can be underrated, or overrated.

I agree that awards are arbitrary, but what other criteria do you insist should be used, then; or is your argument that anything/everything can be underrated and/or overrated, and therefore, anything can make the list?

I maintain that the commonplace meaning of the word is not strictly its dictionary definition. Hell, Merriam-Webster lists the first meaning of the word "gay" as "a : happily excited : merry <in a gay mood>", but let's be real; the vast majority of English-speaking people think of an entirely different definition when someone uses that word, don't they?

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:28 am 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
This thread has demonstrated to me that most people don't know the dictionary definition of "underrated".


RolandDeschain wrote:
I maintain that the commonplace meaning of the word is not strictly its dictionary definition.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:29 am 
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For conversations sake, Im considering "underrated" to mean "underappreciated".. as a practical matter Im taking it to mean a movie not enough people have seen for what it is, or a movie that for whatever reason maybe people didnt appreciate on some level -- its over all quality, its message, its importance..

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:31 am 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
This thread has demonstrated to me that most people don't know the dictionary definition of "underrated".


RolandDeschain wrote:
I maintain that the commonplace meaning of the word is not strictly its dictionary definition.


Alright, yes, that is amusing. I never bothered to look up the dictionary definition of it. However, the dictionaries seem to have a ridiculously ambiguous definition of it. Look at the synonyms they provide for it, and you'll see they fall much more in line with what I claimed. Unless you want to claim that synonyms don't count.

Your argument is essentially that underrated cannot be quantified. I disagree about the real-world use of the word.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:42 am 
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I spent over 3 years sharing an office with a guy who disagreed and argued with everything just because he was good at it. He would get so tangled up in his argument that for all intents and purposes, he didn't even know what he was disagreeing with - just that he disagreed with it. It was fun to lead him down that path.

1. No one knows the definition of the word.

2. The word goes beyond simple definition.

3. The definition is too ambiguous and shouldn't be considered.

4. But, I can quantify the ambiguity.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:48 am 
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Ok, if you think that's me, that's fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

In all seriousness, I'd like to see you argue against every movie in existence not being able to be called "underrated" by the dictionary definition of the word, then.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:15 pm 
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Ok, give me a movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:16 pm 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
Ok, give me a movie.


What, for free? Can I have it back when you're done?

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:19 pm 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
AbsolutNET wrote:
Ok, give me a movie.


What, for free? Can I have it back when you're done?


DTex will be on this like white on rice.

@Absolut: That's hardly an apt demonstration. We're discussing a method of evaluating whether any given movie is underrated. Turning the demonstration into one particular film's merits lets you find ways to pick one example apart, when we're not talking about a specific film, we are talking about an entire process of evaluating them. In other words, nice try at trying to narrow it down into a way you could "win" when it's beside the real topic at hand.

So, no, I refuse to name a single movie for this. I want you to address the process of determining whether something is underrated or not, not discuss the finer points of *insert random film*.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Tokyo Drift. The most underrated of the fast and furious franchise.



Seriously though, pitch black and lucky number sleven.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:28 pm 
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I think Pitch Black is too well-known and considered good by many to be underrated, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:30 pm 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
Speaking of Viggo - Eastern Promises? That was a great film, and I'd say quite underrated.


Totally! Came across that one quite by accident and watched it never having heard a single thing about it. Excellent movie, and a poster case for the definition of "underrated" as it pertains to movies.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Seahawk Sailor wrote:
peachesenregalia wrote:
Speaking of Viggo - Eastern Promises? That was a great film, and I'd say quite underrated.


Totally! Came across that one quite by accident and watched it never having heard a single thing about it. Excellent movie, and a poster case for the definition of "underrated" as it pertains to movies.


YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

I got one right!

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:44 pm 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
Seahawk Sailor wrote:
peachesenregalia wrote:
Speaking of Viggo - Eastern Promises? That was a great film, and I'd say quite underrated.


Totally! Came across that one quite by accident and watched it never having heard a single thing about it. Excellent movie, and a poster case for the definition of "underrated" as it pertains to movies.


YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

I got one right!


No you didn't. Eastern Promises doesn't qualify for consideration for underratedness due to lack of required DVD/Blu-Ray sales and having not won any distinguished awards.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:54 pm 
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And, Eastern Promises is only underrated in terms of the "average", rube, no class movie going public. For people with tastes and appreciation for the artform, its a good film.


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:00 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
And, Eastern Promises is only underrated in terms of the "average", rube, no class movie going public. For people with tastes and appreciation for the artform, its a good film.


I will say this: I could have done with seeing more of Viggo's taint in the shower attack scene.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:07 pm 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
pehawk wrote:
And, Eastern Promises is only underrated in terms of the "average", rube, no class movie going public. For people with tastes and appreciation for the artform, its a good film.


I will say this: I could have done with seeing more of Viggo's taint in the shower attack scene.


Disagree. It was slightly tanned; to remind all of us what its used for.


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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:14 pm 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
No you didn't. Eastern Promises doesn't qualify for consideration for underratedness due to lack of required DVD/Blu-Ray sales and having not won any distinguished awards.


Reading comprehension fail. I specifically said how many they've won and of what type, and how many disc sales they've had, count. We're talking about underrated movies, so the fewer awards/sales, the better, by and large.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:17 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
AbsolutNET wrote:
No you didn't. Eastern Promises doesn't qualify for consideration for underratedness due to lack of required DVD/Blu-Ray sales and having not won any distinguished awards.


Reading comprehension fail. I specifically said how many they've won and of what type, and how many disc sales they've had, count. We're talking about underrated movies, so the fewer awards/sales, the better, by and large.


So you're saying Eastern Promises is overrated?

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:18 pm 
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I have no idea; I haven't even seen it. I was just referring to the rest of that post.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:20 pm 
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So you're telling me that you can judge whether or not a movie is underrated just based on certain factors like awards and DVD sales even if you haven't seen it???

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:21 pm 
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No, I'm not talking about that movie in any way; or any other one I haven't seen. I was commenting on your criteria, or more specifically, you making fun of my criteria in a way I never intended it when I explained it.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:28 pm 
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I'm just trying to apply your construct of concrete measures to an determine an arbitrary system of value. How do you apply the theory that if a film sells a lot of blu-rays and wins a bunch of awards, someone thinks it's overrated? So far your paradigm only allows for that movie to be underrated.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:32 pm 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
I'm just trying to apply your construct of concrete measures to an determine an arbitrary system of value. How do you apply the theory that if a film sells a lot of blu-rays and wins a bunch of awards, someone thinks it's overrated? So far your paradigm only allows for that movie to be underrated.


:snack:

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:40 pm 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
I'm just trying to apply your construct of concrete measures to an determine an arbitrary system of value. How do you apply the theory that if a film sells a lot of blu-rays and wins a bunch of awards, someone thinks it's overrated? So far your paradigm only allows for that movie to be underrated.


It's an amalgamation of criteria, kind of like a sliding scale, to help figure out if a movie is underrated, or not. It's not a scale that "automatically implies" That movie X is underrated. You posted the dictionary definition of "underrated" which, as it turns out, is ridiculously ambiguous and highly open to interpretation. I've asked you twice to define what you think makes a movie underrated, but you haven't given an answer. Since the definition of the word is something you can apply to any film, it needs some sort of series of criteria to be set for it. If you just want to stick with "well, anything can be underrated, it depends on people's opinions" or something along those lines, then just say so.

My point that you're asking about earlier is that, by the dictionary definition of "underrated", even a film that everyone loves that won a ton of awards and sold a gazillion copies can still be underrated.

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 Post subject: Re: Underrated Movies
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:43 pm 
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Wow, I paid a little big of attention to this thread a while back, just to see what people thought, and then ignored it. Looking at it now, it's the perfect example of how the internet works. This thread has everything.


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