What's your most annoying anti-Seahawk talking point?

There are a few Seahawks doubters out there, and they've come up with a handful of flimsy excuses for supporting that view. Which of their talking points annoys you the most?

For me, it's the "Russell Wilson still has to prove himself" line. As if to suggest that Wilson's 2012 season was a fluke, or that he's due for a major regression in 2013 when defenses make adjustments. There are so many things that annoy me about this.

#1: Wilson is not a gimmick quarterback. He runs one of the most diverse and talented offenses in the NFL. Further, Seattle only passed on 45% of their plays last season. If you wanted to slow Seattle's offense just enough to win, you wouldn't key on Wilson, you'd key on Lynch. Just ask the last two teams to beat Seattle: Miami and Atlanta. Even when Wilson was getting sacked like crazy against the Rams and Redskins, he still posted excellent passer ratings and his offense still scored 20+ points. You can't game plan this guy any more than you can game plan Aaron Rogers, and with his work ethic he's only going to grow. I'd put the odds of a Wilson decline among the lowest of all starting QBs next year.

#2: What more does he need to do to prove he's a great QB? Did people not watch him last season? Or in the playoffs? Or even in the pro-bowl where he stood tall over some of the league's best? Or even in college, for that matter?

Granted, I get that normally you'd be cautious about a QB coming off a great season that MOST people (not me) were not expecting. But then again, is Wilson like other QBs? Were people expecting a huge down year in 2002 from Tom Brady? How'd that work out?

Anyway, that's mine. I could have probably named 5 more. This season is going to be fun proving the few remaining doubters and cynics wrong.

Cheaty Petey...

can't win against elite teams on the road

That Wilson landed on the easiest team for a young QB to win with.

If that were true, why didn't they think Flynn would get us more then an 8-8?

Ad Hawk":1oomtdnb said:

Cheaty Petey...

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This really chaps my ass. Or the adderall jokes. Please...

For what it's worth, I still believe Wilson has some major hurdles he has to clear this year. Not that I doubt he will, but until we see it, you just can't know for sure. He has tendencies now, and coaches and teams are going to adjust. He tends to bail out backwards and almost always retreats around the DE to get outside the pocket. Teams are going to start holding their DE's responsible for keeping Wilson inside of them, making him step up, rather than step around. They are going to send late pressure to the edges rather than early pressure up the middle.

Wilson is going to have to get better from the pocket, and some point is going to have to make it easy on himself by hitting a few quick rhythm passes every now and again. We now have a receiver that can get open on a slant or dig, so hopefully we start to see some easy 1st down passes. You can't survive forever making things happen with your feet, at least, I don't think you can. Can Wilson do the dance forever?

Again, I have very little doubt that Wilson will adapt adequately, but I'm not willing to put him in the hall of fame after his first time through the league.

On topic, I can't really think of anything. I'm not hearing too many anti-Hawk folks out there. The oddsmakers have us as the favorites to win it all along with the 49ers, and we're at or near the top in just about every power ranking out there. There just isn't much you can say. We're stacked.

Ad Hawk":13pha0hj said:

Cheaty Petey...

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That would have been my #2.

Tical21":13pha0hj said:

For what it's worth, I still believe Wilson has some major hurdles he has to clear this year. Not that I doubt he will, but until we see it, you just can't know for sure. He has tendencies now, and coaches and teams are going to adjust. He tends to bail out backwards and almost always retreats around the DE to get outside the pocket. Teams are going to start holding their DE's responsible for keeping Wilson inside of them, making him step up, rather than step around. They are going to send late pressure to the edges rather than early pressure up the middle.

Wilson is going to have to get better from the pocket, and some point is going to have to make it easy on himself by hitting a few quick rhythm passes every now and again. We now have a receiver that can get open on a slant or dig, so hopefully we start to see some easy 1st down passes. You can't survive forever making things happen with your feet, at least, I don't think you can. Can Wilson do the dance forever?

Again, I have very little doubt that Wilson will adapt adequately, but I'm not willing to put him in the hall of fame after his first time through the league.

On topic, I can't really think of anything. I'm not hearing too many anti-Hawk folks out there. The oddsmakers have us as the favorites to win it all along with the 49ers, and we're at or near the top in just about every power ranking out there. There just isn't much you can say. We're stacked.

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According to Sando's breakdown, Wilson was actually better in the pocket than outside of it.

The games where Wilson struggled the most was when teams collapsed the pocket from the interior and not only took away his ability to step up but also closed his passing lanes. I also thought the Rams and Redskins did a wonderful job containing the gaps with their DL to punish Wilson when he tried to take off- but both have terrific pass rushing lines and few teams can do that.

I'm not saying that Wilson is infallible, but the only defenses I can really see giving him problems are the ones with elite pass rushing defensive lines. And even in those instances, he still played highly efficient football, he just scored a few less points.

Sorry, I'm not savvy enough to quote properly on this site yet. But in retort, I know you watch all the games and break them down in a very similar way that I do. You know as well as I do when Wilson is at his best and what he struggles with. He held the ball longer than any other starting QB in the NFL. I guess I would disagree with Sando as far as what qualifies as a pocket pass. Dropping back ten yards, dodging two rushers, and hitting a late crossing route still qualifies as a pocket pass, but that is far different from dissecting a defense from the pocket. With numbers like those, you have no choice but to use the eyeball test.

I do agree that the Rams had a terrific gameplan for Wilson. If they had more defensive talent, that game could have been much uglier than it was. We're going to see a lot of that this year. Percy will help, and Wilson will adjust. All I'm saying is that there are more tests he's going to have to pass before we can declare him a mainstay in the elite QB category. Again, he's well on his way and EVERYTHING looks promising, but at the same time, there are quite a few things he hasn't done yet.

For me, it is the can't win on the road label.

Yes, historically they have been weaker on the road, and they posted a meager 3-5 in the regular season last year . . . But,
that 3-5 was front loaded, with a QB who was being muzzled while the coaches figured out what they had. Also, don't forget that even with a muzzle dRussel, the 'Hawks were IN every single opne of those games . . . a play or 2 made instead of dropped, and we could have been 6-2 on the road.

Tical21":1dey93cm said:

For what it's worth, I still believe Wilson has some major hurdles he has to clear this year. Not that I doubt he will, but until we see it, you just can't know for sure. He has tendencies now, and coaches and teams are going to adjust. He tends to bail out backwards and almost always retreats around the DE to get outside the pocket. Teams are going to start holding their DE's responsible for keeping Wilson inside of them, making him step up, rather than step around. They are going to send late pressure to the edges rather than early pressure up the middle.

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That's because they were attacking the weakness of our offensive line - the guard position, so Wilson HAD to escape the pocket to avoid being sacked.
Wilson has proven he is stronger passing from the pocket, so such defensive attacks would be playing into our strengths rather than vice versa.

Also, the way Wilson spins backwards to avoid pressure is the most beautiful thing in football

Good topic.

For me, I used to get teased for wearing Seahawks garb around by people actually living in the Seattle area! I mean, it just wasn't cool to be a Hawks fan for so many folks out there. All of the names we used to hear like "Seabags" (et. al.) made being a fan an unpopular choice. Like having to wear Toughskin jeans rather than Hash jeans, back in the day. It was almost like Seahawks fans were a lower class of folks. None of those feelings apply anymore.

I could say my degree of fandom has additional merit for having hung in there for so many years, but the kind of person I am just wont let me. I could hold a bit of distain for folks who just became Seahawks fans in the past six months saying, "where were you in 2009 bro?", but I'm not doing that either. No, I'm going to take the high road and forgive the bashers of the 80's, and welcome the newly-awakened folks warmly. So much more satisfaction in that than the alternative.

So, I suppose the thing bothering me now is... Well.... Nothing. I can honestly say I'm happier than a Mark Hamill look-alike at a Comic Con.

We should rename this thread to, "idea's for 49ers fans" :/

our db's get away with more contact downfield then any other team... i've debated this several times ... like the league decided we're going to let seattle, a nobody team way over there in the PNW get away with more hand checking and grabbing then any other team this season.. just nonsense....

TheRealDTM":1ylfkblk said:

We should rename this thread to, "idea's for 49ers fans" :/

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I have two:

The notion that regardless of the front office, coaching staff, recent wins, recent formidable stats, and the relative wealth of competitive playmakers, the Seahawks are undeserving of respect simply because they so far have zero Lombardis while opposing Team B homer fan's team has 50,000. Hey -- that was then. This is now.

The other, that Seahawks have historically been perpetual "basement dwellers." Wrong. They've often been 7-9, 8-8, and 9-7. Idiots!

#1. Wilson is a running QB. This was a fallacy taken as gospel during the draft process. It has persisted throughout his rookie year and even into this postseason. At this point, I just consider people that say this to be complete media aping morons with zero actual knowledge of what he is. It's like a big scarlet M.

#2. "There's no smiling in FOOTBALL!" Pete is a rah rah coach. This is another one of those, "I see video highlights of him smiling and jumping on the sidelines. Blasphemy!!!" type reactions. It's kind of laughable really. Apparently the only acceptable demeanor that a coach must employ, is the "Someone pissed in my cereal this morning" puckered and constipated demeanor of Emperor Palpatine -- err sorry Coach Belichick.

These two are the biggest ones. It's like a hater's wet dream. To see both Wilson and Carroll fail because they have the nerve to break the mold. These types of fans are so easy to spot. They seem almost dogmatically incapable of seeing these guys as genuine. They typically frame their bile in comments framed around their imminent and predictable failure.

Yep. The whole Russell is not a real QB argument. Comments I've seen from just today.

Pocket passer? You're out of your mind. He can't even see over the tops of the linemens heads. He Runs, thats it.

Russel Wilson is not a real quarterback. Real quarterbacks play from the pocket. Scrambling is for cowards.

Shut up and play Russell. The wildcat brought lots of excitement to the game too, where is it today?

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Anyone who does not acknowledge that the superbowl that shall not be named was influenced by the mafia.

Seahawks are a weak road team. I don't think it's so much that we are weak on the road. It's that we just have such a heavy home field advantage, and it's very difficult to win on the road period.

Given our schedule Home Vs Away for this upcoming season. I can EASILY see the same argument being made. We could realistically go 8-0 at home this year vs teams like the Jags and Titans, and the hardest teams really being the Saints and Niners. Where as on the road we challenge the Falcons, Giants, Texans, Colts, Niners. Four teams that just made playoffs and one that recently one a SB. Despite how strong our team is, we could still realistically end up with a measly 2-6 or 4-4 road schedule if things don't play out right. And people will go right back to saying "Same Seahawks, Weak on the Road" despite looking at the difference in opponents faced on the road vs home.

Realistically I see us going 6-2 (or 7-1) Home and 5-3 Road (or 4-4), which puts us at best 12-4 and worst 10-6. And the critics will still say "weak road team". That's my 2 cents.

I have two that are tied:

1.) Pete Carroll is a bad coach and slinked out of USC to avoid going "down with the ship" - well duh. Pete is a smart guy, and a BILLIONAIR offered to make him one of the highest paid coaches in the NFL. As a man who takes care of his family as well as involves himself in an incredible amount of charity work, trying to say that he is disloyal/a cheat because he took that rather than staying at USC to face sanctions and bowl bans is completely ridiculous and reeks of jealousy. That would have made him a FOOL. So people critique him for doing what's best for his family? Isn't that the point of basically ...well. . . everything?

2.) Seahawks home games have piped in crowd noise - this comes up now and again. It's pathetic.