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 Post subject: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:00 am 
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of helmet will be a penalty. :141847_bnono: :141847_bnono:

Here is the LINK to NFL.com that carries a better explanation of the rule that has everybody up in arms right now. Watch and listen to the video on that page it explains from the committee where they are going with it, and it’s great if you ask me.

Listen, as a fan I understand the complaint on this rule. But I don’t think the rule is being understood all that well. It’s not that a running back cannot attack a defender, even with his helmet leading into the defender. For example the Marshawn run featured above would not be a penalty… ever!

The rule (should) come into effect only in those rare instances when there is a 1-on-1, non-imminent collision in the open field (outside of the tackle box) and the running back launches himself to the chin/face of the defender. He doesn’t have to leave the ground, but when the back intentionally uses the CROWN OF HIS HELMET to dislodge the defender. It also protects (to some extent) defenders that are easing up, trying to avoid a late hit on the sidelines.

Basically that rare hit that everyone would cringe at and say “GOD that was dangerous, I hope either player is ok” (again OUTSIDE of the tackle box) is what the League is trying to eliminate. The problem with lowering your head is that it completely exposes your vertebrae and paralysis becomes a major possibility with momentum, especially if you get pulled to the ground and your neck is still bent downward. Trying to eliminate that to an extent is something I’m all for! But even in the instance of little Jacquizz Rodgers truck-sticking Earl Thomas in the NFC Divisional game, it wouldn’t be a penalty, because it happened inside the tackle box.

I don’t believe I’ve seen a Marshawn hit yet that should be called a penalty under the new rule. He uses his helmet but rarely in a 1-on-1 situation in the open field. He’d rather hit you with his entire upper body, run you over and keep trucking down the field. That should be entirely legal in all instances, according to the clarification by the league officials, as stated in that video. It’s also been stated that in a situation where the running back is trying to get across the goal line or the first down marker or taking on multiple defenders, unless it’s INTENTIONAL it should not be called. It’s supposed to save a “defenseless” defender from receiving an UNNECESSARY facial that could result in injury. If it’s a necessary maneuver it’s supposed to be deemed “incidental”.

A play that you could point to as a penalty under this new rule would be back in the Chicago/Seattle game, when Michael Robinson (FB) caught a ball in the flats and ducked his head, knocking out the defender on the sideline


Last edited by Darrenv17 on Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:12 am 
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Yep. Goodell is turning the NFL into touch-football. I am about ready to quit watching this game. Seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:16 am 
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It sounded like that topic was table yesterday and there won't be a vote. Is this incorrect?


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:18 am 
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jlwaters1 wrote:
It sounded like that topic was table yesterday and there won't be a vote. Is this incorrect?



incorrect....its passed


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:18 am 
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There were only two new rules passes yesterday and neither were the one the OP suggested.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:23 am 
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/90718 ... le-changes


According to this they delayed it and it gets voted on today.


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:36 am 
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Hope they come to their senses and vote that one down. This is rediculous.


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:38 am 
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This is like telling the Army they can't shoot armor piercing bullets, cause it may hurt someone. It's football. It's a sad day when the Lingerie League is making harder hits.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:41 am 
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If the type of hit in question is so incredibly rare, why even have a rule for it? It just sounds like like something a dumbshit ref would misunderstand and make the wrong call at a terrible time. Like the tuck rule.

I bet Mike Carey can't wait to call it though so he can look hella smart.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:44 am 
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New Rule passes the year the Hawks should go to the Superbowl....... Ya, no Hawks fan should fear this biting us in the butt.


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:51 am 
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To me, the NFLPA is the driving force behind this rule, not the NFL or the commissioner. The NFLPA has been beating the player safety drum for some time now, they even want their own doctors on the sidelines because they don't trust team doctors to properly clear players. Plus with all the lawsuits from former players...what was the NFL supposed to do other than to "limit" injuries?

I don't blame the NFL for this one bit, I blame the NFLPA

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:51 am 
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Can we wait till the rule passes before we post completely false information? In no article I read could I even come to half a conclusion that rule was passed yesterday.

It is being voted on today.


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:52 am 
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How about marshawns first td vs the 49ers in Seattle last year and one of his first runs vs them in san fran last year?


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:53 am 
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heres what I dont get. How many times in the last 6 years have a RB 1-on-1 launched himself into a defender? Maybe once? And how many defenders have been hurt by this launching? Maybe 1?

Its a pointless rule that will add more interpretation from teh refs, and give them more ability to control games the way they see fit.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:54 am 
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StaffAmerica74 wrote:
How about marshawns first td vs the 49ers in Seattle last year and one of his first runs vs them in san fran last year?

I read that under this rules, only 2 or 3 plays from last year would have been flagged. I don't think people understand what this rule is which is why some are making it into a big deal.

It's offensive spearing outside the tackle box. Yes, players can still lower their shoulders and brace for contact.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:56 am 
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sa_seahawker wrote:
This is like telling the Army they can't shoot armor piercing bullets, cause it may hurt someone. It's football. It's a sad day when the Lingerie League is making harder hits.


It's hardly the same. It's not only dangerous for the player being speared, but the running back too. There's no reason for it in football. Lynch uses a stiff arm or pure brute strength to run players over so it won't affect him

It won't stop him from doing his thing:
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Also, it will lead to less helmet to helmet collisions. If the RB leads with his head it forces the defender to get even lower to make the tackle. Think of the number of times Kam was fined in 2011 for this very problem.


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:58 am 
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themunn wrote:
sa_seahawker wrote:
This is like telling the Army they can't shoot armor piercing bullets, cause it may hurt someone. It's football. It's a sad day when the Lingerie League is making harder hits.


It's hardly the same. It's not only dangerous for the player being speared, but the running back too. There's no reason for it in football. Lynch uses a stiff arm or pure brute strength to run players over so it won't affect him

It won't stop him from doing his thing:
Image
and

Also, it will lead to less helmet to helmet collisions. If the RB leads with his head it forces the defender to get even lower to make the tackle. Think of the number of times Kam was fined in 2011 for this very problem.



He dropped his head... Looks like what its intending to stop?


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:58 am 
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So much for the goal line fullback dive. That move leads with the crown of the helmet too.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:01 am 
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Hawkfan77 wrote:
StaffAmerica74 wrote:
How about marshawns first td vs the 49ers in Seattle last year and one of his first runs vs them in san fran last year?

I read that under this rules, only 2 or 3 plays from last year would have been flagged. I don't think people understand what this rule is which is why some are making it into a big deal.

It's offensive spearing outside the tackle box. Yes, players can still lower their shoulders and brace for contact.


That seems fine until you have refs calling the penalty in real-time. To many plays will get flagged because its to fast and the refs will flag it regardless. To many huge plays have been reversed because of flags. See Kam hit on Davis for an example. All were doing is giving the refs more opinionated control of the game.

This has way to much conspiracy written into it, but I truly think that money talks. And with the amount of money that football betting brings in, you would be stupid not to assume that some of these refs cant be bought. And you would also be stupid to not assume, that some of these rules are in place just to give the refs some extra ability at controlling games.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:02 am 
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sa_seahawker wrote:
So much for the goal line fullback dive. That move leads with the crown of the helmet too.


Dives are ALWAYS between the tackles, and this rule is only OUTSIDE the tackles. It doesn't change this one bit. This is for OPEN FIELD situations, not BUNCHED up groups.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:04 am 
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Let's actually give them time to vote on the subject before we say the sky is falling.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:05 am 
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Bakergirl wrote:
Let's actually give them time to vote on the subject before we say the sky is falling.


Why? We should be slamming the twitter handles of all the owners before they vote on this. Once they vote it through, complaining will be pointless. Complain now and let all the owners hear it, before they vote.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:06 am 
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It's just one more little thing for the refs to have to pay attention to and screw up.

In the end it will probably not make things any safer.

this is getting to the point where it would be like loading up your new car with 400 fancy techie doo-dads for 'safety' that end up just being a sensory overload of distractions that in the end aren't helping anymore than simply "paying attention".


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:09 am 
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Cartire wrote:
Bakergirl wrote:
Let's actually give them time to vote on the subject before we say the sky is falling.


Why? We should be slamming the twitter handles of all the owners before they vote on this. Once they vote it through, complaining will be pointless. Complain now and let all the owners hear it, before they vote.


Do you really think the opinions of fans on the subject will do anything to sway their opinions or decision on the matter? No. Players have already voiced their concerns with it, and the owners may or may not listen to them.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:13 am 
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Bakergirl wrote:
Cartire wrote:
Bakergirl wrote:
Let's actually give them time to vote on the subject before we say the sky is falling.


Why? We should be slamming the twitter handles of all the owners before they vote on this. Once they vote it through, complaining will be pointless. Complain now and let all the owners hear it, before they vote.


Do you really think the opinions of fans on the subject will do anything to sway their opinions or decision on the matter? No. Players have already voiced their concerns with it, and the owners may or may not listen to them.


I think I see owners all the time using their twitter. And the fact that most of them our good business men, they do take into account fan reaction when its loud enough. Sure, we can assume it wont work, and not do anything, and then we will have already answered our question. Or we do reach out to them (like I already have done) and give it a chance.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:15 am 
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I don't like it.

I also read just a minute ago on nfl.com that they reviewed all the games from week 16 last year and found 5 instances where they would flag.


The crown of the helmet one of the GM's was trying to define as if you were to put a beanine on the helmet.

"If this idea -- which first gained traction in Indianapolis during the competition committee's meeting at the NFL Scouting Combine -- is approved, the head-on move will result in a 15-yard penalty, and the offending player will be subject to a fine. If an offensive player and a defensive player both lower their heads, the resulting penalties will offset. The rule only will be in effect outside the tackle box, or 3 yards downfield."

:177692:

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:16 am 
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Bakergirl wrote:
Cartire wrote:
Bakergirl wrote:
Let's actually give them time to vote on the subject before we say the sky is falling.


Why? We should be slamming the twitter handles of all the owners before they vote on this. Once they vote it through, complaining will be pointless. Complain now and let all the owners hear it, before they vote.


Do you really think the opinions of fans on the subject will do anything to sway their opinions or decision on the matter? No. Players have already voiced their concerns with it, and the owners may or may not listen to them.


Yeah, most successful business people tend to completely ignore the wishes of their clients. Seems like a good business practice...

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:18 am 
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Bakergirl wrote:
Let's actually give them time to vote on the subject before we say the sky is falling.


The time to bitch and complain about something really important to you is not after the fact. If someone cheats in a board game you dont let him play anyway and then complain about how he cheated and its not fair after he wins.


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
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NEWS

NFL owners yet to vote on crown-of-helmet rule
March 19, 2013

Team owners passed two player health and safety-related rules Tuesday at the NFL Annual Meeting in Phoenix. One rule bans peel-back blocks, and the other keeps teams from overloading one side of the defensive line on point-after and field-goal attempts.

Still at issue is the controversial rule proposal to ban crown-of-the-helmet hits by ball carriers.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:19 am 
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Bakergirl wrote:
Cartire wrote:
Bakergirl wrote:
Let's actually give them time to vote on the subject before we say the sky is falling.


Why? We should be slamming the twitter handles of all the owners before they vote on this. Once they vote it through, complaining will be pointless. Complain now and let all the owners hear it, before they vote.


Do you really think the opinions of fans on the subject will do anything to sway their opinions or decision on the matter? No. Players have already voiced their concerns with it, and the owners may or may not listen to them.

Yeah, players have publicly voiced their concerns, but their actions (and actions of former players) speak volumes much more so than the words of some publicly outspoken guys. The lawsuits and the NFLPA, imo, are why this rule will pass. All these lawsuits result in money out of the owner's pockets. So they will take a "stand" to make the game "safer" Honestly though, what are they supposed to do?

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:21 am 
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nwgamer wrote:
I don't like it.

I also read just a minute ago on nfl.com that they reviewed all the games from week 16 last year and found 5 instances where they would flag.


:177692:


And lets not forget that this is guys who are watching film and discussing the events. These are not refs in realtime. Chances are very likely that this penalty would get called 3 times that amount, wrongly, because of the speed of the game.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:22 am 
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Teqneek wrote:
themunn wrote:
sa_seahawker wrote:
This is like telling the Army they can't shoot armor piercing bullets, cause it may hurt someone. It's football. It's a sad day when the Lingerie League is making harder hits.


It's hardly the same. It's not only dangerous for the player being speared, but the running back too. There's no reason for it in football. Lynch uses a stiff arm or pure brute strength to run players over so it won't affect him

It won't stop him from doing his thing:
Image
and

Also, it will lead to less helmet to helmet collisions. If the RB leads with his head it forces the defender to get even lower to make the tackle. Think of the number of times Kam was fined in 2011 for this very problem.


He dropped his head... Looks like what its intending to stop?


No, he lowers his shoulder. The rule is to prevent LEADING with the head.
I can't access youtube from work but if you can find the video from the Vikings game (2nd quarter 7:52 to go, AP 16 yard run tackle by Earl Thomas) you'll see exactly what it's aiming to prevent (I have NFL gamepass so can access highlights of the full match, but can't post any videos here)


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:22 am 
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Bakergirl wrote:
Cartire wrote:
Bakergirl wrote:
Let's actually give them time to vote on the subject before we say the sky is falling.


Why? We should be slamming the twitter handles of all the owners before they vote on this. Once they vote it through, complaining will be pointless. Complain now and let all the owners hear it, before they vote.


Do you really think the opinions of fans on the subject will do anything to sway their opinions or decision on the matter? No. Players have already voiced their concerns with it, and the owners may or may not listen to them.


I'm not saying it'll do any good, but the more vehement the protests are, the higher the possibility that they can't get enough votes to pass it and they table it for further review. It may not get that desired outcome, but I can't see how it would hurt to voice displeasure to those doing the voting so they know the feelings (or for those who are behind it, to voice that as well).

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:23 am 
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CANHawk wrote:

Yeah, most successful business people tend to completely ignore the wishes of their clients. Seems like a good business practice...

Let's be real, the NFL stands to lose absolutely nothing if this rule passes and nothing if it doesn't. No one will stop watching the NFL or stop spending their money on the product based on outcome of the this rule.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:26 am 
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yes!! Great idea!! Lets allow even more subjective interpretation to the fantastic referees this game has! Because, you know, they've totally shown they can be trusted to not throw the flag on random plays like the Lynch one above where the offensive player slightly lowers his head. Too bad I dont share your great enthusiasm for the refs we have.


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Hawkfan77 wrote:
Yeah, players have publicly voiced their concerns, but their actions (and actions of former players) speak volumes much more so than the words of some publicly outspoken guys. The lawsuits and the NFLPA, imo, are why this rule will pass. All these lawsuits result in money out of the owner's pockets. So they will take a "stand" to make the game "safer" Honestly though, what are they supposed to do?


Create waiver forms.... Why are they constantly trying to solve lawsuit problems like this? NFL players recieve MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to play the game. They make more money in a few years then 90% of the population will in a lifetime. They knowingly play a game that is physical and dangerous.

I was in the navy for 8 years. I had to sign waiver forms all time time (hazmat, ect) because the Navy and most work places are not gonna allow employees the right to sue them, just because they got hurt doing a dangerous job.

They need to stop the problem at the source. But overpaid lawyers will always try and find ways to exploit wealthy people, and this is one of them. Most these class action lawsuits come from lawyers calling explayers and asking if they hurt.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:29 am 
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Just to play devil's advocate, Marshawn appears to use his helmet like a bighorn sheep on a lot of plays :stirthepot:

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themunn wrote:

No, he lowers his shoulder. The rule is to prevent LEADING with the head.
I can't access youtube from work but if you can find the video from the Vikings game (2nd quarter 7:52 to go, AP 16 yard run tackle by Earl Thomas) you'll see exactly what it's aiming to prevent (I have NFL gamepass so can access highlights of the full match, but can't post any videos here)


The very fact that you have to debate this situation, with a slo mo view, is why this rule is horrible. Cause interpretation has you thinking its one thing and others thinking its another. Speed this play up with an excited ref, and you have a flag. 15 yard penalty.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:31 am 
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The crown-of-the-helmet rule has also passed by a wide margin, I'm told.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:33 am 
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On paper, it sounds fine. But you KNOW that live speed, every time a RB dips his head they will call a penalty. They will be over eager to get the call right, and it will be called incorrectly more times than not.

Yes, Marshawn would not be flagged for that SF run on replay, but in live game speed he would have been called for a penalty...and it is not challengable. Especially because he ran so vicious on that play. That's what worries me about this rule.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:33 am 
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Hawkfan77 wrote:
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Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 6m
The crown-of-the-helmet rule has also passed by a wide margin, I'm told.



just saw it. Well, there goes that.

I predict that next year, they will have instant replay on penalties because of all the egregious penalties, further slowing down the game and creating 5 hour long games.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:37 am 
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Lynch is going to be one of the backs targeted most for this. He's even the guy they feature in the picture on ESPN.com for the link to the story about the rule.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9072189/nfl-owners-meetings-proposed-rb-helmet-rule-only-fair

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:38 am 
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As long as they only penalize blatant violations of this rule than I'm okay with it, but as one of the other posters said, officials watching the play at full speed will probably end up flagging legitimate plays that look like violations at first blush. It's the Chancellor hit all over again: perfectly legal in retrospect, but it LOOKED illegal at the time and wound up being flagged. The same thing will happen here.

And I'm okay with reviewing personal foul penalties, but only if they take reviews away from the on-field officials and have them done in a replay booth upstairs like they do in college football and pro hockey. Any time taken up by additional reviews would be more than offset by the time saved not having to wait for some fat-@$$ed referee to jog over to one corner of the field and back any time there is a replay.


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:40 am 
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I don't think it'll affect Lynch too much as far as penalties are concerned. He has his panted stiff arm that he likes to use in the open field. I think what may happen is that it could open him up to more fumbles when using his stiff arm and someone comes from behind to try and knock the ball loose. That would be where my concern lies.

I understand the reason behind the ruling. With the NFL facing dramatic lawsuits due to post career injuries, they HAVE to show that they are working towards making the sport safer or else they risk losing way too much in the courts to sustain the league. It's a lose/lose scenario we are in. Hopefully the refs will use a lot of discretion or at least fairness when handing out the penalties on this.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
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These guys get paid MILLIONS to play this game. They know the risks. They could also choose another occupation. The NFL is becoming "touch football". What's next? Flag football? And yes, the games will be way longer because of replay review concerning this. Ughh...Why does this have to happen when the Hawks actually become good?


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
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Seahwkgal wrote:
These guys get paid MILLIONS to play this game. They know the risks. They could also choose another occupation. The NFL is becoming "touch football". What's next? Flag football? And yes, the games will be way longer because of replay review concerning this. Ughh...Why does this have to happen when the Hawks actually become good?


unfortunately how much the players make is insignificant. It's all about how much the executives, agents, and advertisers get. The players make a lot of money but it's a tiny fraction of the business.


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
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Ultimate coward move by the NFL. Way to ruin the game we love assholes, one rule at a time


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:58 am 
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... itter_news

Yep gonna hate this new rule I'm sure, but I'm willing to let it play out and see how well the refs officiate it before I totally dismiss it.


Last edited by BallHawker on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
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Roger Goodell is the Devil. It is known.


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 Post subject: Re: well they pass the new rule leading with crown...
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Seahwkgal wrote:
Roger Goodell is the Devil. It is known.

It's kind of annoying that Goodell automatically gets blamed for everything is some sort of knee jerk reaction. You don't have to like the guy but seriously...how is this on him?

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