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 Post subject: Victor Cruz - what am I missing
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:43 pm 
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I don't get the Victor Cruz situation. So giants place a first round tender which I get to mean two things:

1) He gets paid about $2.9 million next year
2) It takes a first round pick to Giants if he signs with another team and giants can match the offer

So why aren't teams offering three years at $18 million or something. He is worth the first round pick right? He is worth $6million per year right? Worst thing that happens Giants have to spend more and if you are in their division then great. Best case you get a good deal.

I must be missing something obvious and appreciate if someone can enlighten me


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Cruz - what am I missing
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:01 pm 
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Teams don't tend to want to give up the pick, and from what I've heard, teams tend to look at the whole RFA thing as pretty much doing all the work of negotiating a deal just so their current team can match it. I think it's just kind of fruitless. Either you pay him a ton + give up a 1st or the Giants just match, and you might just be able to get him in FA the next offseason.

Look at Mike Wallace. Got a 1st round tender last offseason, this year walks and gets a contract there's no way the Steelers would've paid the year before.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Cruz - what am I missing
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:27 am 
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If I wanted Cruz, I'd just call up the Giants and ask them, "which would you rather have, a 1st round pick or Victor Cruz at 6/67?" If they answered the 2nd option, I'd walk away. Pretty good chance they'd say option 1 though. Pinksheets makes some fantastic points, but I've never understood why more teams don't treat RFA like a trade opportunity and work with the other team for a deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Cruz - what am I missing
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:57 am 
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It would have made a ton of sense for the Vikings to go after Cruz, IMHO. Put together an offer that the Giants would have trouble matching--I don't think they have much cap room to work with--and then if they get Cruz, they lose the #23 pick in the draft but still have our #25 pick. They get a playmaking receiver for Christian Ponder, they have him signed to a long term deal, and they still have a first round pick to work with.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Cruz - what am I missing
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:40 am 
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There are a few teams that could put together a Bowe-like deal and the Giants would be screwed to match it unless they whacked 2 or three guys off their roster to free up the money. I hope this happens being a Giant hater but if you need a young #1 wr, why wouldn't you do it? I would say the Patriots should do it just to stick it to NY for once. They have the cap space and a 1st at 29 that is way worth Victor Cruz.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Cruz - what am I missing
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:08 am 
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I don't even see why it has to be a deal that giants can't match. Right now they are getting him for $2.9 million. Make it at least $6 million - mission accomplished....


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Cruz - what am I missing
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:28 am 
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Yea I dont know why a team at the end of the first round wouldn't make that move. Houston would be a good fit.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Cruz - what am I missing
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:26 am 
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mikeak wrote:
I don't even see why it has to be a deal that giants can't match. Right now they are getting him for $2.9 million. Make it at least $6 million - mission accomplished....


Because if the Giants choose to match the $6 million, the team that goes after him, wouldn't get him and they'd be out the ability to have been negotiating with other free agents at the time.

Once you make the offer to Cruz, the Giants have a time frame in which to match it. As a team, you have that cap money locked into Cruz waiting on the Giants to respond and can't use that money elsewhere until the Giants decide to keep him. If it is well known around the league that the Giants would match most offers, then you are wasting time, and resources and possibly losing out on other free agents by going this route. Perhaps after they've gotten the other players they want, they might make a play for him, but really it might just be better to let him play disgruntled for the Giants, then go get him next year when he may not want to remain a Giant any longer.

See the Mike Wallace Pittsburgh situation for a prime example

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 Post subject: Re: Victor Cruz - what am I missing
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:28 am 
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IMO, Eli makes Cruz, not the other way around. Eli's good enough that someone's going to get their yards.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Cruz - what am I missing
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:02 am 
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kidhawk wrote:
mikeak wrote:
I don't even see why it has to be a deal that giants can't match. Right now they are getting him for $2.9 million. Make it at least $6 million - mission accomplished....


Because if the Giants choose to match the $6 million, the team that goes after him, wouldn't get him and they'd be out the ability to have been negotiating with other free agents at the time.

Once you make the offer to Cruz, the Giants have a time frame in which to match it. As a team, you have that cap money locked into Cruz waiting on the Giants to respond and can't use that money elsewhere until the Giants decide to keep him. If it is well known around the league that the Giants would match most offers, then you are wasting time, and resources and possibly losing out on other free agents by going this route. Perhaps after they've gotten the other players they want, they might make a play for him, but really it might just be better to let him play disgruntled for the Giants, then go get him next year when he may not want to remain a Giant any longer.

See the Mike Wallace Pittsburgh situation for a prime example


I see the point of having to keep the money on the cap until a deal is done - good info thanks!. Looking at it online based on that it looks like it will be locked up for 7 days. With that said a few teams are way under the cap and I am surprised they don't do this just to annoy the Giants. Even if he gets $5-$6 million he would be disgruntled........

Players stay disgruntled one year but if they get a big contract afterwards they tend to forget about it quickly....... so make it painful right now. The Giants are right on the cap. I get why Patriots and other cap troubled teams aren't doing it but some teams like Browns way under the cap come on piss the Giants off a little bit :)


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Cruz - what am I missing
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:26 am 
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mikeak wrote:
kidhawk wrote:
mikeak wrote:
I don't even see why it has to be a deal that giants can't match. Right now they are getting him for $2.9 million. Make it at least $6 million - mission accomplished....


Because if the Giants choose to match the $6 million, the team that goes after him, wouldn't get him and they'd be out the ability to have been negotiating with other free agents at the time.

Once you make the offer to Cruz, the Giants have a time frame in which to match it. As a team, you have that cap money locked into Cruz waiting on the Giants to respond and can't use that money elsewhere until the Giants decide to keep him. If it is well known around the league that the Giants would match most offers, then you are wasting time, and resources and possibly losing out on other free agents by going this route. Perhaps after they've gotten the other players they want, they might make a play for him, but really it might just be better to let him play disgruntled for the Giants, then go get him next year when he may not want to remain a Giant any longer.

See the Mike Wallace Pittsburgh situation for a prime example


I see the point of having to keep the money on the cap until a deal is done - good info thanks!. Looking at it online based on that it looks like it will be locked up for 7 days. With that said a few teams are way under the cap and I am surprised they don't do this just to annoy the Giants. Even if he gets $5-$6 million he would be disgruntled........

Players stay disgruntled one year but if they get a big contract afterwards they tend to forget about it quickly....... so make it painful right now. The Giants are right on the cap. I get why Patriots and other cap troubled teams aren't doing it but some teams like Browns way under the cap come on piss the Giants off a little bit :)


True, they could, but then do you want to give up the quality of first round pick that Cleveland would have to give up? It's not like they are picking near the end of the round. That's a pretty steep price to pay when they could get a pretty good young receiver much cheaper with that same pick or someone at a more needed position, while the Giants could let them have him, and get that nice little pick to fill in a hole with an inexpensive talent from the draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Victor Cruz - what am I missing
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:43 am 
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pehawk wrote:
IMO, Eli makes Cruz, not the other way around. Eli's good enough that someone's going to get their yards.


I have a feeling that a lot of people in the league think this, which also explains why teams would hesitate to give up a first rounder on him. I agree. None of the Giants' former receivers look like anything special without Eli throwing to them. Eli takes shots and has reasonably good accuracy. At least one receiver is going to put up #1 WR numbers just by being around.


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