RolandDeschain wrote:To be fair, BFS, if we aren't using that as an excuse for losing to the Falcons; then it shouldn't be used to benefit the 49ers in their loss to us, certainly.

You're missing the point. Read the context of Salish's post. He claims the talent level of the two teams isn't close because of the differential in score of that one game.

RolandDeschain wrote:To be fair, BFS, if we aren't using that as an excuse for losing to the Falcons; then it shouldn't be used to benefit the 49ers in their loss to us, certainly.

Do you guys compare playing at the Redskins the same as playing at New England in December?

NinerLifer wrote:

RolandDeschain wrote:To be fair, BFS, if we aren't using that as an excuse for losing to the Falcons; then it shouldn't be used to benefit the 49ers in their loss to us, certainly.

Do you guys compare playing at the Redskins the same as playing at New England in December?

Oh please, it was RAINING in your game. We're used to cold rain around here in December and January. You know, since it's Seattle. Typically not quite as cold as it was in that one, but...Again. PLEASE. If it had been a blizzard out there, you'd have a point. Not to mention, we beat the Jets in a ton of snow when Favre was with them, in our house.

bestfightstory wrote:You're missing the point. Read the context of Salish's post. He claims the talent level of the two teams isn't close because of the differential in score of that one game.

Naw, I get that, and agree with you; I was just speaking more to your point, is all.

NinerLifer wrote:

RolandDeschain wrote:To be fair, BFS, if we aren't using that as an excuse for losing to the Falcons; then it shouldn't be used to benefit the 49ers in their loss to us, certainly.

Do you guys compare playing at the Redskins the same as playing at New England in December?

No. 'We guys' don't. And if Roland were to think about it, he wouldn't either. It's a moot point. We smashed you guys the last time we played you and I don't expect many (if any) of our near future matches to be as lopsided. Both our teams are too good for that to be the norm.

BFS, I'm not comparing them, I was just saying that the "New England in December" conditions the 49ers played in were mild, considering what that can typically mean. He implied those conditions were hell, when they weren't really that bad; and that's all I'm saying about that.

He wasn't implying those weather conditions were hell.

He was playing off my point that New England and Seattle are incredibly difficult places to win games for the opposition.

He was referring to the fact that the Patriots AT HOME IN DECEMBER are about 80(exaggeration, obviously)&1 in the last few years.

Very difficult place to get a win in December. Weather aside.

We're talking about the Patriots here though not the Jets. And the rain isn't the point as the Niners have no problems playing in the elements. The conditions weren't what I was focusing on so you miss understood that. Tom Brady hadn't lost at home in the month of December since 2002 against coincidently the Jets.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/ ... story.html

bestfightstory wrote:

NinerLifer wrote:

RolandDeschain wrote:To be fair, BFS, if we aren't using that as an excuse for losing to the Falcons; then it shouldn't be used to benefit the 49ers in their loss to us, certainly.

Do you guys compare playing at the Redskins the same as playing at New England in December?

No. 'We guys' don't. And if Roland were to think about it, he wouldn't either. It's a moot point. We smashed you guys the last time we played you and I don't expect many (if any) of our near future matches to be as lopsided. Both our teams are too good for that to be the norm.

Agreed.

Ah. I misunderstood what you meant, indeed. However, Foxborough isn't particularly loud; the advantage they enjoy is due mainly to the fact that they've been an incredibly elite team. That was an impressive streak they had, but going 10 years w/o losing in that month at home is really only 21 or so games, total. Not an unbreakable streak/record, certainly.

I'm not trying to down-talk it, but teams that are elite for so long typically wind up with records like that, or nearly having records like it. Isn't Aaron Rodgers something like 45 TDs to 2 ints in the red zone at home, if I recall correctly?

I'd say we have more volume of young talent than any other team not just the Hawks, course there has been plenty of talented teams who didnt live up to it. Weve got a great base to start from but football is a game that takes many things coming together, we'll see what happens. I wouldnt trade the Niners position in the NFL right now for any other team, the hord of top draft pics is just the icing on the cake. Hawks are in pretty good shape draft wise too so you guys have a big opportunity there as well.

bestfightstory wrote:
How will we Seahawks keep pace?

Enter Percy Harvin.

Goldrush wrote:I'd say we have more volume of young talent than any other team not just the Hawks

Not to slap you around with hard facts or anything, (oh, who am I kidding; that's exactly what I'm doing) but the 49ers are one of the oldest teams in the league.

http://www.nflen.com/2012/09/average-ag ... uding.html

Sorry to burst your "volume of young talent" bubble. Rams and Seahawks are significantly younger than the 28th-ranked 49ers.

Anquan Boldin to SF for a 6th round pick.

wingoz 2:11pm via Web
Holy.....RT @RavensInsider: Anquan Boldin traded to 49ers for a sixth-round pick

Nooooo!!! i would rather have the boldin deal.

Meh. I'd rather have Percy for the payload we gave off than Boldin for a 6th, easily.

Hasselbeck wrote:Anquan Boldin to SF for a 6th round pick.

wingoz 2:11pm via Web
Holy.....RT @RavensInsider: Anquan Boldin traded to 49ers for a sixth-round pick

good move for them. Hope Kam doesn't fined again for knocking his head off.

Who's fretting the Cards are gona step up next...2014 3rd rounder for CARSON PALMER!?!?!?!

One positive about the Boldin deal?

He's due $6M, the Niners aren't sitting on a ton of cap space.. so I think we can put to bed the Revis to SF rumors.

Quite frankly I think Sherman and Browner matchup fine with Crabtree and Boldin.. don't think they have a DB that can slow down Harvin though.

Hasselbeck wrote:One positive about the Boldin deal?

He's due $6M, the Niners aren't sitting on a ton of cap space.. so I think we can put to bed the Revis to SF rumors.

Quite frankly I think Sherman and Browner matchup fine with Crabtree and Boldin.. don't think they have a DB that can slow down Harvin though.

Are you forgetting that they just opened up a ton of cap space getting rid of Akers and Alex Smith? If they let Goldson go too, they have a ridiculous amount of room to sign another veteran or two.

QuickLightning wrote:

Hasselbeck wrote:One positive about the Boldin deal?

He's due $6M, the Niners aren't sitting on a ton of cap space.. so I think we can put to bed the Revis to SF rumors.

Quite frankly I think Sherman and Browner matchup fine with Crabtree and Boldin.. don't think they have a DB that can slow down Harvin though.

Are you forgetting that they just opened up a ton of cap space getting rid of Akers and Alex Smith? If they let Goldson go too, they have a ridiculous amount of room to sign another veteran or two.

Niners were at about $14m in cap space with Akers and Smith out, Boldin would put them at $8m before signing any FAs or attempting to re-sign Goldson (which isn't going to happen, most likely).

More Niners, this form Rotoworld:

CSN Bay Area's Matt Maiocco reports the 49ers are expected to "make a run at the right price" on free agent Sean Smith.
The 49ers are in the market for a "cornerback with size," and Smith obviously fits that mold at 6-foot-3 and 214 pounds. Per Maiocco, the Niners will have to fend off the Eagles, Chiefs, and Buccaneers for Smith. Smith has made it blatantly obvious that he will sign with the highest bidder. Of the aforementioned group, San Francisco easily has the least amount of salary cap room.

Arms Race, Indeed.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/clark ... -arms-race

they have more holes to fill probably need a few starters to replace when some of their free agents sign else where. where we are a more solidified roster and there will be no better window for us to win than in the next few years but what the 9ers have that we don't have is a constant interrior disruptive force AKA Justin Smith.

The WR trades for SF and SEA respectively were perfect for what each team wanted to do. All eyes will be on the production of both players next season.

RolandDeschain wrote:

Goldrush wrote:I'd say we have more volume of young talent than any other team not just the Hawks

Not to slap you around with hard facts or anything, (oh, who am I kidding; that's exactly what I'm doing) but the 49ers are one of the oldest teams in the league.

http://www.nflen.com/2012/09/average-ag ... uding.html

Sorry to burst your "volume of young talent" bubble. Rams and Seahawks are significantly younger than the 28th-ranked 49ers.

I'm. not talking about tie roster too to bottom, which includes average players and even scrubs. I'm talking about the elite players, the pro bowlers, all pros, those on the verge, etc. who are still young and you can build the franchise around. If busted a bubble seems it was the wrong one.

Kaepernick, Crabtree, Davis, Willis, Bowman, Aldon Smith, * Goldson, * Walker, Iupati, Staley, Yada yada..and I've left out a few. Few teams have that much young talent to build on.

21Sanders&Moss84 wrote:The WR trades for SF and SEA respectively were perfect for what each team wanted to do. All eyes will be on the production of both players next season.

Pretty much, Boldin is a good rent a player for however long you guys got him. Harvin has the potential to be deadly in space when Wilson gets to scrambling.

That being said, I'm looking forward to seeing Harvin put a 49er defender on skates.

Goldrush wrote:
I'm. not talking about tie roster too to bottom, which includes average players and even scrubs. I'm talking about the elite players, the pro bowlers, all pros, those on the verge, etc. who are still young and you can build the franchise around. If busted a bubble seems it was the wrong one.

Kaepernick, Crabtree, Davis, Willis, Bowman, Aldon Smith, * Goldson, * Walker, Iupati, Staley, Yada yada..and I've left out a few. Few teams have that much young talent to build on.

Thomas, Chanccellor, Sherman, Wagner, Irvin, Arvil, Mebane, okung, unger, miller, rice, harvin, wilson, lynch, etc. I believe the oldest player on that list is mebane at 28.

Goldrush wrote:I'm. not talking about tie roster too to bottom, which includes average players and even scrubs. I'm talking about the elite players, the pro bowlers, all pros, those on the verge, etc. who are still young and you can build the franchise around. If busted a bubble seems it was the wrong one.

Kaepernick, Crabtree, Davis, Willis, Bowman, Aldon Smith, * Goldson, * Walker, Iupati, Staley, Yada yada..and I've left out a few. Few teams have that much young talent to build on.

Just admit you were wrong and stop trying to backpedal. Good Lord, the world doesn't end of one admits they were mistaken about something they said.

+Avril

Free Agency isn't yet over and we still have the draft ahead, but thus far Im liking the way we have answered the question intended in this thread.

RolandDeschain wrote:

Goldrush wrote:I'm. not talking about tie roster too to bottom, which includes average players and even scrubs. I'm talking about the elite players, the pro bowlers, all pros, those on the verge, etc. who are still young and you can build the franchise around. If busted a bubble seems it was the wrong one.

Kaepernick, Crabtree, Davis, Willis, Bowman, Aldon Smith, * Goldson, * Walker, Iupati, Staley, Yada yada..and I've left out a few. Few teams have that much young talent to build on.

Just admit you were wrong and stop trying to backpedal. Good Lord, the world doesn't end of one admits they were mistaken about something they said.

LOL yeah really. Plus the fact that Goldson and Walker are gone, and while Willis isn't old, he isn't young either. Same for Vernon Davis.

I want to start off by saying while I don't agree with every one of your members I really enjoy getting insight from your board members, this is a very exciting time for us fans getting to see teams literally get FA to counter a certain team like what sea and sf are doing! I am a Carroll fan from USC days being a California native, I enjoy his enthusiasm. I have gone to every niners sea hawk game for 5 years now in SF love the rivalry which is created by us fans and the media feeds off of us a its awesome being in the national scene instead of steelers, pats , giants aagghhh I think we have surpassed them.. I do find the strategy of niners being different than seahawks, niners almost do moneyball style have you noticed older first round picks trying to get their old college skills back that got them to the NFL.. Seahawks are front runners for the SB I have to think losing the SB makes it tough the next year.. we will see

Michael Bennett to Seattle.

John Schneider, you have answered my question.

This reminds me of the type of threads the Eagle Fans used to create for the past 2 years

Ninerguy wrote:This reminds me of the type of threads the Eagle Fans used to create for the past 2 years

Hahahaha. Sure thing. Get the most of that meme while you can cuz once the season begins it will die a fast death.

Ninerguy wrote:This reminds me of the type of threads the Eagle Fans used to create for the past 2 years

Right because we're not adding complimentary/depth pieces, we're counting on free agents to be our cornerstones, and our qb just got out of prison and has been out of football. How did I not see the connection before?

Ninerguy wrote:This reminds me of the type of threads the Eagle Fans used to create for the past 2 years

How? We've signed 2 of the best DEs on the market to reasonable deals after the market cooled and made one trade for a young elite talent at wideout. The Eagles were straight up handing out big contracts to risky big names and pieces that didn't fit.

I get you're trying to poo poo on our parade, but it's stupid.

pinksheets wrote:
I get you're trying to poo poo on our parade, but it's stupid.

Incorrect, I get the excitement at signing a bunch of FAs.
But FA signings do not mean all those players will work out well, history of the NFL proves that out. Thats why it is such a surprise the JS would go away from what he preaches which was VALUE your draft picks and build through the draft!!!

I think he sees a window here before you have to pay or lose many young players and they are swinging for the fences. Not a crazy move but somewhat surprising. I think the Hawks are a very good team as I think the Niners are a very good team...but regardless of all the FA signings for either club it will come down to play on the field and coaching. I like our chances just as much as you like yours.
Fair?

Schneider has worked free agency every year. What about signing both Rice and Miller in quick succession? This organization does prefer to build through the draft, but you act as if that means they will never trade picks or ever go hard in FA, which was proven false before you even got the idea.

Valuing your picks does not = overvaluing them. Percy Harvin is worth more than the draft capital given up, period. Not to mention the Seahawks still have a ton of picks on top of a ton of depth that will make it extremely hard for rookies to make the roster.

You want to write the narrative that this is anything like what the Eagles did, when it isn't, not even remotely.

Ninerguy wrote:Incorrect, I get the excitement at signing a bunch of FAs.
But FA signings do not mean all those players will work out well, history of the NFL proves that out. Thats why it is such a surprise the JS would go away from what he preaches which was VALUE your draft picks and build through the draft!!!

I think he sees a window here before you have to pay or lose many young players and they are swinging for the fences. Not a crazy move but somewhat surprising. I think the Hawks are a very good team as I think the Niners are a very good team...but regardless of all the FA signings for either club it will come down to play on the field and coaching. I like our chances just as much as you like yours.
Fair?

I tried reading this but all I kept seeing was, "PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC"

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:

Ninerguy wrote:Incorrect, I get the excitement at signing a bunch of FAs.
But FA signings do not mean all those players will work out well, history of the NFL proves that out. Thats why it is such a surprise the JS would go away from what he preaches which was VALUE your draft picks and build through the draft!!!

I think he sees a window here before you have to pay or lose many young players and they are swinging for the fences. Not a crazy move but somewhat surprising. I think the Hawks are a very good team as I think the Niners are a very good team...but regardless of all the FA signings for either club it will come down to play on the field and coaching. I like our chances just as much as you like yours.
Fair?

I tried reading this but all I kept seeing was, "PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC"

lol, then you missed the point English.
SHEETS...My original point was that in signing a bunch of FAs does not guarantee success. It can definitely help but it is not a slam dunk in any way. Hawks are very good, I say that, they were good last season. But if we all know anything is that one years success does NOT guarantee success the next season. So its said, I thought the Eagles were going to be VERY good the past 2 seasons, I was wrong.

BTW, I know you will all flame out on this but I do not think that a 1st,3rd and 7th round pick for a guy that averages 800 yds and 5 TDs a yr as a WR is great value. Just my opinion and let the hate begin but those are marginal numbers at best. You can add in the return game but the Hawks already had one of the best return man in the NFL in Leon Washington. I havent even addressed the injury history of Harvin or his attitude. Trading for Harvin is a high risk high reward proposition is it not? If he hits it out of the park than its a high reward, if he has 800 yards and 5 tds this next season than are you happy with that as compensation?
the 1st and 3rd rounders are serious draft picks and most likely players who actually make your team, the 7th means nothing.

At best the 49ers the same as last year, perhaps a bit older. I don't see much impact of any rookies...where would they play ? These guys we have now make our defense ,in my humble and biased option better, at least on paper

DL - Seahawks
LB Niners
DB Seahawks

One of the reasons the Niners in the glory days did well was free agents such as Fred Dean and Dion. That helped them over the hump like we did

But that's where you're being either intentionally or unintentionally moronic. Judging Percy by stats alone doesn't work for a couple of reasons: he has had terrible QB play every year but his rookie season and a huge part of his benefit is that he's so explosive and versatile that his presence on the field opens up a ton of options for other players.

If you put Percy in this draft class, he'd be the 1st WR off the board, easily, and he'd go far higher than the 20th pick, which is what those picks would get you.

And yeah, not all FAs work out, but they can, and that's why 9er fans are scared. If these signings do work out (and so far the vast majority of Pete and John's decisions have) our team is going to be terrifying. The amount of improvement over last year will outpace the 49ers and their moves by a large margin at this point. We'll see how the draft goes.

Ninerguy wrote:

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:

Ninerguy wrote:Incorrect, I get the excitement at signing a bunch of FAs.
But FA signings do not mean all those players will work out well, history of the NFL proves that out. Thats why it is such a surprise the JS would go away from what he preaches which was VALUE your draft picks and build through the draft!!!

I think he sees a window here before you have to pay or lose many young players and they are swinging for the fences. Not a crazy move but somewhat surprising. I think the Hawks are a very good team as I think the Niners are a very good team...but regardless of all the FA signings for either club it will come down to play on the field and coaching. I like our chances just as much as you like yours.
Fair?

I tried reading this but all I kept seeing was, "PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC"

lol, then you missed the point English.
SHEETS...My original point was that in signing a bunch of FAs does not guarantee success. It can definitely help but it is not a slam dunk in any way. Hawks are very good, I say that, they were good last season. But if we all know anything is that one years success does NOT guarantee success the next season. So its said, I thought the Eagles were going to be VERY good the past 2 seasons, I was wrong.

BTW, I know you will all flame out on this but I do not think that a 1st,3rd and 7th round pick for a guy that averages 800 yds and 5 TDs a yr as a WR is great value. Just my opinion and let the hate begin but those are marginal numbers at best. You can add in the return game but the Hawks already had one of the best return man in the NFL in Leon Washington. I havent even addressed the injury history of Harvin or his attitude. Trading for Harvin is a high risk high reward proposition is it not? If he hits it out of the park than its a high reward, if he has 800 yards and 5 tds this next season than are you happy with that as compensation?
the 1st and 3rd rounders are serious draft picks and most likely players who actually make your team, the 7th means nothing.

to look at Harvin's numbers and judge that as his only impact on the game is stupid and simplistic at best.

I honestly hope we dont need to explain to you how Harvins presence on this team makes everyone else more dangerous as well? Perhaps we do.

As far as Percy's numbers go they don't equate to his value. He's a field stretcher, he can line up anywhere and he can spell your HB. I agree with you on the KR/PR thing, i thought we should have kept leon, I don't want to put that risk on a 10m a year player. BUT, Percy is a top 10 receiver, he's always been on running teams and he will be here so his stats aren't going to be Calvin Johnson, JJ level. We aren't going to need that from him with nearly 2k yards rushing and 2 other 700+ yard receivers.

Tech Worlds wrote:to look at Harvin's numbers and judge that as his only impact on the game is stupid and simplistic at best.

I honestly hope we dont need to explain to you how Harvins presence on this team makes everyone else more dangerous as well? Perhaps we do.

Nah, you dont, I get that point and it is valid. Just like Vernon Davis makes everyone else better since teams have to account for his speed from the TE position correct.
Numbers dont lie though, you are what you are just like win loss records.

why do you guys have to call names? Moronic, stupid....just an NFL fan and I happen to live near a team I USED to like(Hawks) and attend games until they got dropped into my teams(NINERS) conference so now its all about hate

So numbers ultimately tell the story then?

So 42-13 right? You can't have it both ways.

pinksheets wrote:So numbers ultimately tell the story then?

So 42-13 right? You can't have it both ways.

yes, you won a football game last season, one of 17 games over 4 1/2 months, congratulations. Im surprised it took you that long to beat that dead horse. Again, congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!

Ninerguy wrote:

pinksheets wrote:So numbers ultimately tell the story then?

So 42-13 right? You can't have it both ways.

yes, you won a football game last season, one of 17 games over 4 1/2 months, congratulations. Im surprised it took you that long to beat that dead horse. Again, congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!

You're the one making statistics the be all end all, I'm not. Numbers tell part of the story, but not all of it. You want to boil Harvin down to his numbers, not what you see on the field, not what he forces opposing defense to do. It's a blatantly self-serving argument that doesn't carry any weight.

obviously the main thing is that percy harvin owns in madden.

Ninerguy wrote:BTW, I know you will all flame out on this but I do not think that a 1st,3rd and 7th round pick for a guy that averages 800 yds and 5 TDs a yr as a WR is great value. Just my opinion and let the hate begin but those are marginal numbers at best. You can add in the return game but the Hawks already had one of the best return man in the NFL in Leon Washington. I havent even addressed the injury history of Harvin or his attitude. Trading for Harvin is a high risk high reward proposition is it not? If he hits it out of the park than its a high reward, if he has 800 yards and 5 tds this next season than are you happy with that as compensation?
the 1st and 3rd rounders are serious draft picks and most likely players who actually make your team, the 7th means nothing.

So, you think the Hawks drafted him as a receiver and nothing else. Tell me how many backs would have taken carries from possibly the greatest RB in NFL history in Adrian Peterson?

If he was JUST A SLOT RECEIVER he wouldn't be on our team.

1) He allows us to protect ourselves against Lynch getting hurt or suspended (and yes, he could receive a suspension if he's convicted in his DUI case) or just plain getting old and tiring out as he approaches 30.

2) Leon took up a space on our roster that needed to be filled by a 3rd down back that can actually make a difference, Lynch had the highest carries total of his career this year in part because Washington was ineffective in our offense.

3) and yes he can play receiver, and no he wont ever get a 1000 yard season with the Hawks. Russell Wilson isn't Kaepernick, and Harvin isn't gonna be Crabtree and over targeted. We have weapons besides him, and the ball will be spread around.

4) He's reuniting with his rookie Offensive Coordinator, Sidney Rice, and finally will have a capable QB that isn't Favre on the decline and a nothing like Ponder.

So, keep on thinking were going to be lining him up in the slot 100% of his snaps and pinning our hopes on his receiving skills if it helps you sleep at night.