Its br?

This was also discussed by Hugh Millen and Rob Dibble on FoxSports radio tonight.

Makes sense. They need to move some cap space to afford Harvin.

LaConforia was reporting this as well. Suspect Leon is going to be cut since I don't think anyone is going to give up a draft pick for him knowing the Seahawks most likely will have to cut him to make room for Harvin as well as sign any other FAs they might have their eyes on.

Still wouldn't surprise me to see JS get our 7th back for Leon.. basically making it a 1st and 4th for Harvin.

Hasselbeck wrote:Still wouldn't surprise me to see JS get our 7th back for Leon.. basically making it a 1st and 4th for Harvin.

Crossed my mind, as well.

Then he will get a 4th or better from Jax/Jets/Browns for Flynn.

I guess I'm not seeing why we cut our special teams record holder? Solid field position player, to have our potential 10 mil a year receiver return kicks, and not have a nice solid 3rd back as an option. When for the same money we can say good by to Ben Obomanu and a few others, that would make just more of a logical impact from a salary standard vs removing our spark in the Special teams department to remove the same cap.

Criticial Success Player vs 30 percent Snap guys (one highly overpaid)

Teqneek wrote:I guess I'm not seeing why we cut our special teams record holder? Solid field position player, to have our potential 10 mil a year receiver return kicks, and not have a nice solid 3rd back as an option. When for the same money we can say good by to Ben Obomanu and a few others, that would make just more of a logical impact from a salary standard vs removing our spark in the Special teams department to remove the same cap.

Criticial Success Player vs 30 percent Snap guys (one highly overpaid)

The counterargument would be that Harvin/Tate replaces most of what Leon provides and the absence of Leon allows us to fill his roster spot with an additional D-Lineman, maybe?

bestfightstory wrote:

Hasselbeck wrote:Still wouldn't surprise me to see JS get our 7th back for Leon.. basically making it a 1st and 4th for Harvin.

Crossed my mind, as well.

Then he will get a 4th or better from Jax/Jets/Browns for Flynn.

Then he will bet all our salary cap room with Largent80's bookie on the over win total at +1600 odds.

JS = GENIUS!

This is one of the biggest problems with this trade.

Yes, we got additional value.

But the difference between the value the player had vs the aggregate value this player brings to us vs the old roster is pretty wide.

We paid a premium for value we already had. The 49ers had a massive hole at WR, we didn't. We just had an average corps.

We already had a very very good kick returner, so getting that additional value from Harvin is not really that great. Even worse, it just puts our supposed star performer in a position to get injured. And it does not help that we are bringing in a guy to supplant a guy that was busting his tail for this team, and was improving every year (Tate)

One giant need was a WR to stretch the field, and we got that. But another giant need is still our DL which was not only not addressed but is going to be harder to address with the giant cap monkey on our back from this signing. Special teams return guys was not a glaring need. And I would even submit our defensive line needed more help than our WR group did.

We were really close, and maybe this puts us over the top. It also potentially brings a bad attitude into the team while irritating guys that busted their tails for us.

In the end, the trade will be measured by whether or not we get to the SuperBowl. If we do, then it is a clear benefit. If not, then it will probably be a situation where something a little more specific into areas of weakness might have been a better option.

I am on the fence with this one, we will see.

Still feel like we should keep him for at least another year. Are we really going to have a #1 receiver take all the returns? Keeping Leon means our special teams remains on point with our offense and defense without risking injury to an expensive investment. Why not keep this team stacked while we're paying pennies for our superstar QB? We have cap space, and there are cuts/trades to be made elsewhere (Flynn, Obomanu).

Leon deserves to stay. Come on, 1 more year. Could be the year for everyone! He doesnt cost that much. Cut back on other things. Stop paying the guy with the bird during home games or something!

djb28 wrote: Stop paying the guy with the bird during home games or something!

Sacrilege.

Teqneek wrote:I guess I'm not seeing why we cut our special teams record holder? Solid field position player, to have our potential 10 mil a year receiver return kicks, and not have a nice solid 3rd back as an option. When for the same money we can say good by to Ben Obomanu and a few others, that would make just more of a logical impact from a salary standard vs removing our spark in the Special teams department to remove the same cap.

Criticial Success Player vs 30 percent Snap guys (one highly overpaid)

How often did you see Leon in the game on offense on 3rd down? Pretty much never, rarer still in truly meaningful game situations. Leon has no material value left on offense, and he's not a coverage guy on ST's. His sole value is as a returner, and that value is significantly diminshed now with the lower % of returnable KO's due to the rule changing the KO line to the 35. Furthermore, players whose success is entirely predicated on their speed and athleticism customarily drop off a cliff once they hit the wrong side of 30, and Leon will be 31 when this season starts. He can still be a solid-average (or better) return man for a little while longer, but a $2.875M cap number for a post-prime return specialist with diminished opportunities who doesn't contribute elsewhere is not a savvy investment of cap space or a roster spot. Esp. when you have a guy in Harvin who would have led the league in KOR average by a mile if he'd had enough returns to qualifiy, not to mention other options such as Tate, Lane, Thurmond, et al who don't require a dedicated roster spot amongst the 53 just to return kicks and punts. The Seahawks have gotten just about everything they could have hoped for out of Leon during his 3 seasons here, but given his age, cap charge, and diminished role, bleeding that turnip no longer makes a lot of sense.

If JS and PC thinks looking at getting value for Leon to get an upgrade to another position I in. Leon is a good player but he just isn't on the field enough to justify not utilizing his value for a player on the field more.

sorry Leon its time to go. We don't really need a return specialist when they keep kicking it in the back of the endzone. How much is this guy making a year? something like 5-7 millions correct?? and he can't really play RB either with Turbin. Now I'm not saying I want Harvin taking punts or kickoffs, but I can see Tate taking the role or mostlikely we will be drafting the next return specialist. Guys I keep saying this and its EXACTLY whats going to happen. Everyone who is getting over paid is getting shipped out or cut or restructured. Flynn and Leon are probably going, while Red and Mebane will probably e asked to restructure or take pay cut next year so we can bring back our whole secondary next year *

bestfightstory wrote:

djb28 wrote: Stop paying the guy with the bird during home games or something!

Sacrilege.

Pretty sure he's not affecting the salary cap anyway.

Not surprised to see this, but still I love Leon and would hate to see him go.

Yeah it sucks but i think it needs to happen Harvin is too good in the return game to sit on the sideline and we would be doing opposing teams a favor if we did'nt use Harvin in special teams, it would not be getting the full potential of a player like Harvin. I don't think anyone will trade for Leon but i know someone will pick him up just hope its no one in our division he is one of my favorite players since he's been here it sucks to see him go and will hurt to see him in a different uniform be cool if he retired a seahawk.

leon was arguably the best kick returner last year, y'all really think we cant get nothing out of him?

Leon was an important part of the team, and i'm gonna miss him if he goes, but I really wanna see Harvin on kickoff returns and Tate on punt returns. I don't know why Tate hasn't been used on punt returns more often, he's a legit playmaker.

I love Leon. I will miss him.

I like Leon. however i am sure JS and PC will bring something back if they do trade Leon.

TwistedHusky wrote:This is one of the biggest problems with this trade.

Yes, we got additional value.

But the difference between the value the player had vs the aggregate value this player brings to us vs the old roster is pretty wide.

We paid a premium for value we already had. The 49ers had a massive hole at WR, we didn't. We just had an average corps.

We already had a very very good kick returner, so getting that additional value from Harvin is not really that great. Even worse, it just puts our supposed star performer in a position to get injured. And it does not help that we are bringing in a guy to supplant a guy that was busting his tail for this team, and was improving every year (Tate)

One giant need was a WR to stretch the field, and we got that. But another giant need is still our DL which was not only not addressed but is going to be harder to address with the giant cap monkey on our back from this signing. Special teams return guys was not a glaring need. And I would even submit our defensive line needed more help than our WR group did.

We were really close, and maybe this puts us over the top. It also potentially brings a bad attitude into the team while irritating guys that busted their tails for us.

In the end, the trade will be measured by whether or not we get to the SuperBowl. If we do, then it is a clear benefit. If not, then it will probably be a situation where something a little more specific into areas of weakness might have been a better option.

I am on the fence with this one, we will see.

Obviously the FO is setting the table this way because they see ample opportunity to improve our defense in the draft. JS doesn't just make these calls on a whim.

I lost count of how many times Russell had to scramble all day long while waiting for somebody to come open. This was a bigger need than some people want to admit. As illusive as Russell is, the risk to his health increases with how long he has to hold on to the ball.

Want improvements on D? JS an PC can now devote almost all of their attention to it.

why are people worried about Harvin getting injured returning kicks?
Can't remember the last time someone suffered a serious injury returning a kick - half the time the ball is kicked out of the back of the endzone, or the punt returner has to call fair catch. And he can always split reps with Golden Tate, who was pretty good returning punts his rookie year, and has been not too bad in the preseason either.

bestfightstory wrote:

Teqneek wrote:I guess I'm not seeing why we cut our special teams record holder? Solid field position player, to have our potential 10 mil a year receiver return kicks, and not have a nice solid 3rd back as an option. When for the same money we can say good by to Ben Obomanu and a few others, that would make just more of a logical impact from a salary standard vs removing our spark in the Special teams department to remove the same cap.

Criticial Success Player vs 30 percent Snap guys (one highly overpaid)

The counterargument would be that Harvin/Tate replaces most of what Leon provides and the absence of Leon allows us to fill his roster spot with an additional D-Lineman, maybe?

But again why Leon, its not Leon is breaking the bank at 2 Mil a year, or that there isnt 2 lesser players we can easily replace in mid round.. Dunno, I just dont see getting rid of such an electric player at that price when you have other ways to make room.

Guess we'll see. Good thing I didnt buy a Washington JErsey last year

Also worth noting, Leon is a 30 year old running back. Not saying he doesn't have some left in the tank, but he isn't a spring chicken.

the fact that we still question anything PS&JS do surprises me

Would suck to Lose Leon over this. Guy is a pro bowl caliber returner and he isn't hurting the salary cap. And with Harvin's demonstrated fragility i'm not sure using him to return kicks is the best use of his abilities.