Is Pete Carroll still the head honcho in Seattle?

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  • On the eve of free agency, just wanted to start a topic that I've been thinking about and talking about with JonRud...

    Everyone knows that Pete Carroll is "THE MAN" in Seattle. The head honcho, sheriff, etc. His ComPete and Win Forever philosophies are what drive this organization and the players on the field. Having said that, is Pete Carroll actually #4 on the Seattle football totem pole?

    First, let me say that I LOVE Pete and there isn't a guy I'd rather have coaching the Hawks. His youthful exuberance, his charity work, I just think he's a great coach and a pretty cool person. There's nobody else I'd rather have in Seattle. However, is he the best gameday coach around? I don't think so. I know I've personally had many "WTF Pete?!" moments during his time in Seattle. In the end, I get over it because of everything he does for the team and the city. But is Pete Carroll REALLY still the most important man in the Seahawks organization? Here's my list of the "Big 4" and where I rank them relative to their importance to the team.

    1) John Schneider - You could argue that Pete should be #1 because he hired John Schneider, but I still think Schneider deserves the majority of the credit for the work he's done constructing this roster. If Carroll were to retire, I think the team would soldier on with a new head coach. However, if Schneider were to leave town for his "dream job" in Green Bay (hypothetically speaking of course), I think it'd be impossible to find an equal replacement. Seattle would definitely take a hit. So let's hope that Schneider NEVER leaves. Make it happen Paul.

    2) Russell Wilson - In due time, he'll probably take over #1 on the list. I don't think I need to explain why. He's going to be a Super Bowl champion, probably multiple times, and while Schneider is the reason Russell's in Seattle in the first place, we won't be able to overlook the performance on the field from #3.

    3) Paul Allen - Some might rank him #1 on their list and he probably should be because he saved the team from certain death. He's the perfect sports owner in that he backs his team with unlimited resources and stays out of the way. That's hurt him, and the team, in the past on occasion though. Remember the Holmgren/Whitsitt feud? Don't know if there's anything he could have done to avoid that (don't know the backstage politics) but it happened regardless. Then there was also the Jim Mora move. That sucked. Having said all that, Allen is still the man and I'll always be grateful for everything he's done for us. He's a man that can do no wrong in my mind.

    4) Pete Carroll - He's the guy I trust the least when it comes to the Hawks "Big 4." His gameday management is sometimes a little shaky but everything else is pretty great with Pete. Like I said, there's no one I'd rather have in charge of the Hawks. I can't wait to see him celebrating a Super Bowl victory with the Hawks, it's going to be incredible and it's going to piss off A LOT of non-Hawks fans. With Sherman and Carroll on board, the Hawks have a serious chance to be "hated on" by mostly anyone who's not a Hawks fan if they start winning some Super Bowl's. They'll be that team that people love to hate. Back to the topic at hand, I just think that Pete is the most replaceable guy on this list which isn't a knock on him but rather a testament to how great Schneider and Wilson have and may (WILL) become.

    What's everyone else thinkin?
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    NYCoug
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  • #1 Paul Allen signs the paychecks....not literally, of course, but you know what I mean....:)

    #2 Pete Carroll has more than one title, one of which, IIRC, is Team President, which makes him superior to....

    #3 John Schneider, who apparently has a very collaborative relationship with Pete when it comes to selecting players.

    #4 Russell Wilson....because no player is more important than the team, as I'm sure he would tell you.

    That would be my hierarchy.

    As far as game day decisions, I've never seen any coach/OC/DC hit 100% of the time. They all have :187734: moments. The question is how they do in total. Winning 10+ games in a season is pretty good, regardless of the occasional brain fart here and there. If we win 10+ again next year, good job everybody. But the org chart follows my version IMHO.

    :)
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  • Very interesting. The more I think of it I'd probably have Wilson #1 on my list.

    If someone said to me - ok either Schneider or Wilson is leaving the organization - which one do you keep...I would probably have to keep Wilson at this point. Hopefully both of them are around for a long, long time.

    I love all 4 of these guys. They're better than The Beatles.
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  • I don't want to participate! Haha, this is like saying, "which child do you love more?"
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  • JonRud wrote:I love all 4 of these guys. They're better than The Beatles.


    Great quote Jon, I love it! Somebody's gotta photoshop a picture of the 4 of them as the Beatles. Preferably a black and white picture for added affect.

    These four are giving Led Zeppelin a serious run for their money as my favorite 4 people to ever work together.
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  • JonRud wrote:Very interesting. The more I think of it I'd probably have Wilson #1 on my list.

    If someone said to me - ok either Schneider or Wilson is leaving the organization - which one do you keep...I would probably have to keep Wilson at this point. Hopefully both of them are around for a long, long time.

    I love all 4 of these guys. They're better than The Beatles.


    I'd keep Schneider. Better to keep the talent evaluator that found your stud QB (and stud CB, LB, S, G, RB...etc.) than keep the stud QB and suffer through another Whitsett/Ferguson poo poo platter in the front office.
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  • No one on this team makes it without Carrolls final say, just putting it out there.
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  • Throwdown wrote:No one on this team makes it without Carrolls final say, just putting it out there.


    Very true, but Pete's getting up there in age and who knows how long he wants to stay on the sidelines. I'm sure that, when he does decide to give it up, he'll stay in the organization as either President or some sort of consultant, so his legacy and everything he has instilled in the team will probably carry on. So maybe he is the most important man in Seattle football.

    Wouldn't that be something? Decades after he's gone, the organization still follows the principles and beliefs that he established. Pete Carroll framed quotes and plaques hanging all around the VMac. If he gets Seattle their first Super Bowl, this might just become a reality at some point down the road.
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  • NYCoug wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:No one on this team makes it without Carrolls final say, just putting it out there.


    Very true, but Pete's getting up there in age and who knows how long he wants to stay on the sidelines. I'm sure that, when he does decide to give it up, he'll stay in the organization as either President or some sort of consultant, so his legacy and everything he has instilled in the team will probably carry on. So maybe he is the most important man in Seattle football.

    Wouldn't that be something? Decades after he's gone, the organization still follows the principles and beliefs that he established. Pete Carroll framed quotes and plaques hanging all around the VMac. If he gets Seattle their first Super Bowl, this might just become a reality at some point down the road.


    I think at a certain point, I'm sure he will retire, and it'd be nice if he left his mark on this franchise. All proud franchises have that one coach, GM, or owner that came in and turned it into something. I really do believe that Pete is our guy for that, just look at what he's built in his short amount of time and with how bare the cupboards were. The guy is well on his way to be the best mind we've had in the Seahawks organization to me.
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  • If Pete Carroll wins the Super Bowl with the Hawks he will never have to pay for a latte [or insert other Seattle cliche] again for the rest of his life.

    On a totally unrelated note - if the Hawks host the NFC Championship game next year I want Holmgren to raise the 12th Man Flag. The place would come down.
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  • JonRud wrote:If Pete Carroll wins the Super Bowl with the Hawks he will never have to pay for a latte [or insert other Seattle cliche] again for the rest of his life.

    On a totally unrelated note - if the Hawks host the NFC Championship game next year I want Holmgren to raise the 12th Man Flag. The place would come down.


    I would be in tears.
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  • Is Carroll still the head honcho? Give me a break. :34853_doh:
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  • sutz wrote:#1 Paul Allen signs the paychecks....not literally, of course, but you know what I mean....:)

    #2 Pete Carroll has more than one title, one of which, IIRC, is Team President, which makes him superior to....

    #3 John Schneider, who apparently has a very collaborative relationship with Pete when it comes to selecting players.

    #4 Russell Wilson....because no player is more important than the team, as I'm sure he would tell you.

    That would be my hierarchy.

    As far as game day decisions, I've never seen any coach/OC/DC hit 100% of the time. They all have :187734: moments. The question is how they do in total. Winning 10+ games in a season is pretty good, regardless of the occasional brain fart here and there. If we win 10+ again next year, good job everybody. But the org chart follows my version IMHO.

    :)


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  • I'm sorry but the first thing I did when I read the original post headline was look at the calendar and see if a couple of weeks had gotten away from me and this was April 1st.

    I know its slow and little news right now but to me this is just trying to find a problem where there doesn't appear to be one. Or just outright conspiracy theorys.

    Again, no offense but this is way to far out there for me, and hopefully most others.

    :roll:

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  • I guess I phrased it incorrectly.

    I'm basically asking who everyone thinks is the most important man in the Seahawks organization. No conspiracy theories. Nothing like that. Just wondering who everyone thinks is the best at what they do in the organization, and how you'd rank them accordingly.
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  • Sometimes when you sit down to think about things, you find new and interesting possibilities.

    Other times, you over think the obvious.

    I'm not leaning towards this being the first possibility.
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  • NYCoug wrote:I guess I phrased it incorrectly.

    I'm basically asking who everyone thinks is the most important man in the Seahawks organization. No conspiracy theories. Nothing like that. Just wondering who everyone thinks is the best at what they do in the organization, and how you'd rank them accordingly.



    Then how about saying.....Team in complete freefall we have to start over. So the owner does just that. Look down the names of your list and say to yourself.

    "SELF"

    Who did the owner hire first?

    To me that should answer your question. Any questions?

    :D
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  • The Radish wrote:
    NYCoug wrote:I guess I phrased it incorrectly.

    I'm basically asking who everyone thinks is the most important man in the Seahawks organization. No conspiracy theories. Nothing like that. Just wondering who everyone thinks is the best at what they do in the organization, and how you'd rank them accordingly.



    Then how about saying.....Team in complete freefall we have to start over. So the owner does just that. Look down the names of your list and say to yourself.

    "SELF"

    Who did the owner hire first?

    To me that should answer your question. Any questions?

    :D


    It does, and I most definitely agree with that and I have thought that.

    But over times things evolve. Things change. I'm not saying that Schneid is gonna have a hit put out on Carroll so that he can take his spot as Team President. I'm just wondering if Pete is really still the most important man the Seahawks have right now. I guess I should have taken Allen out of the equation, since he's the owner. Between Carroll, Schneider, and Wilson though I think that Schneider and Wilson are more important to this team at this point in team. That's all.

    I could be over thinking the obvious, and probably am Sarlacc. Admittedly. But what the heck, it's March 11th and if it weren't for this Percy Harvin trade there wouldn't be much to talk about. :th2thumbs:
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  • #1: Pete Carroll

    Without Pete, this team doesn't exist. Without Pete, John Schneider might still be in Green Bay. Without Pete, we almost certainly wouldn't have the caliber of assistant coaches we have. Think about the value Tom Cable alone has brought us. Without Pete, you aren't finding mid to late round diamonds and polishing them into megastars every year. No Pete, No Richard Sherman. No Pete, and possibly no Russell Wilson. I could also see many other NFL coaches overruling their GM's regarding a 5'10" QB, and very few would start a 5'10" QB as a rookie. Few coaches know how to put players in position to succeed like Carroll does. He's also built what has to be the NFL's very best locker room environment. Carroll is a visionary who in just 3 years not only transformed one of the league's bleakest franchises into it's very best. In just 3 years, he went from a has-been college coach to the most influential man in the NFL. He's the new Bill Walsh.

    #2: John Schneider

    The perfect enabler for Pete Carroll. I think Carroll makes Schneider look like more of a genius than he really is (pretty much all of our late round coups were coach up jobs). That said, Schneider is, at minimum, the hardest working GM in the NFL. I think he has a great eye for talent as well, and I love his disciplined "moneyball" type approach to things. It's really unfair that we have the NFL's best talent developer and the NFL's best GM.

    #3: Russell Wilson

    I believe Wilson is already the NFL's most valuable player. It's daring to say that now, but a year or two from now it won't be. That said, I think we could probably win a championship with a far lesser QB and if for example we had taken the Matt Barkley route this offseason instead, our franchise would still have a very bright outlook. Wilson is extremely valuable, and I think anywhere else he'd be #1. But he's #3 here.

    #4: Paul Allen

    Most of Paul Allen's value comes from three things. One, he saved us from Ken Behring back in the 90s. Two, he cares about this football team but is wise enough to leave the decisions up to professionals. Three, he has I think the perfect sense of accountability, knowing to be patient but also knowing when to cut bait and move on with failed hires. There is a 4th role form of value he brings, but we have yet to see it. That final form of value deals with how the post-Paul Allen transition will be handled. If he dies, who gets the team? If he sells before then, who does he sell it to? Hopefully someone that reminds us of Chris Hansen, and not someone who reminds us of Clay Bennett. Obviously, if he screws up on this final point, it makes him easily the most important person in the organization, but not in a good way. Given everything he's done so far, I really doubt he'd screw that part up. So Allen's a massively distant 4th- even John Schneider didn't list his owner when talking about the 3 most important people in the building.
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  • I think Pete and John are 1A and 1B. Theirs has been very much a collaborative effort. I'd give Pete the A part because his philosophy and vision are the base for all that has come after.
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  • No, we traded him and 1st rounder for Percy Harvin :)
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  • Good points everyone. Interesting that only a few people actually have Paul Allen as #1. I guess the rest of us don't really "understand business." haha just poking fun.

    I guess you guys, and Kip, are right because most teams probably shy away from the Harvin trade because of Harvin's character issues. With Pete in charge, it's barely a worry because you just know that Pete will make Harvin feel a part of the team/family and get his screwed on straight. Not many fan bases could feel confident with this type of move, but the Hawks can because you just know they're still going to kill it in the draft and fix the pass rush. This is Year 4 of the 4 Year Plan, Carroll and Schneider are going to do EVERYTHING they can to complete this roster. And they will. It might mean guy's like Flynn and Leon hitting the bricks but in order to complete the roster, it's probably necessary.
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  • This made me laugh out loud.


    I guess you guys, and Kip, are right



    Hey Kip, it appears you are no longer one of the guys.

    :D
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  • I noticed that too after I wrote it. Was too lazy to fix it though. It's only 9:30 out here and I just woke up. Shows where my priorities are at right now since I was on .Net first thing in the morning checking to see what another grown man's contract numbers are going to look like. No, fear not, Kip is not a tranny or a God, he's still one of the guys haha

    Glad you got a kick out of that Radish and that you picked up on it, but what the hell are you doing awake at this time?! The life of a mod is no joke!
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  • NYCoug wrote:I noticed that too after I wrote it. Was too lazy to fix it though. It's only 9:30 out here and I just woke up. Shows where my priorities are at right now since I was on .Net first thing in the morning checking to see what another grown man's contract numbers are going to look like. No, fear not, Kip is not a tranny or a God, he's still one of the guys haha

    Glad you got a kick out of that Radish and that you picked up on it, but what the hell are you doing awake at this time?! The life of a mod is no joke!


    And besides had to be up, shower, and at the physical therapists in a half hour. I'm a pretty early riser anyway, 5am pacific time is pretty normal. Sucks,,,when I worked had to fight myself to get up. Now retired and can sleep in wake up early.

    :les:
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  • The Radish wrote:Hey Kip, it appears you are no longer one of the guys.
    :D


    lol.
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