Justin Hunter SDB article

McGruff · Mar 8, 2013

Hunter excels are getting separation and makes catches . . . and has the productivity to show it . . . so I'm confused how you are discounting him based on productivity.

And I really like Bailey as well, but don't think he has the upside of Hunter, Patterson, Rogers or even Austin. But among the second tier receivers, he's at the top of my list.

McGruff · Mar 8, 2013

BTW, Hunter is not without weaknesses, principle among which is his medical history.

I also notice that he doesn't have a tendency to get easily frustrated, with both his own performance and his QB. Reminds me a bit of Rice in that way.

Finally, he's a mess when trying to run in traffic. In the open field, he's got good burst away from would be tacklers, but in traffic he's a disaster runningt with the football.

CamanoIslandJQ · Mar 8, 2013

""Hunter excels are getting separation and makes catches . . . and has the productivity to show it . . . so I'm confused how you are discounting him based on productivity"".

I guess it may boil down to your definition of productivity. To me, production is best judged by # of TD's, but # of catches and yards are also very important evidences of production (over "potential" production).

Justin Hunter, WR:
2012 = 73 catches for 1083 yards, 9-TD's, (#26 of all WR's in 2012 by yardage)
Career = 106 catches for 1812 yards., 18-TD's

Steadman Bailey, WR:
2012 - 114 catches for 1622 yards, 25-TD's, (#3 of all WR's in 2012 by yardage)
Career = 210 catches for 3218 yards, 41-TD's, (Bailey's career TD total is more than 2x Hunters.)

Bailey had more catches in 2012 than Hunter has had in his career. IMO, Bailey had more productiuon and it's not by a small margin. I'm not touting Bailey as a 1-st round pick. I'd like to see him drafted by the Seahawks in round 2 (or possibly in round 3, if they are lucky) - which would be optimum VALUE for the Seahawks. I would hope they also draft another, taller WR in the mid to late rounds to satisy that element. (B. Kaufman, M. Wilson, M. Davis, C. Fuller, etc.) I could also see the Seahawks having interest in Tavarres King, WR, 6'/189, 4.47/40 that had 42 catches for 950 yards last season, that's 22.6 average yards per catch (#1 in that stat.) A probable round 4/5 pick from Georga. I think the Seahawks just need more arrows for RW's quiver. IMO-both speed and the ability to seperate trump undeveloped height in a WR, of course they also have to catch the ball (which is the bigest gripe on Hunter).
http://espn.go.com/college-football/sta ... 2/group/80

Scottemojo · Mar 8, 2013

CamanoIslandJQ":3s54uvw9 said:
""Hunter excels are getting separation and makes catches . . . and has the productivity to show it . . . so I'm confused how you are discounting him based on productivity"".

I guess it may boil down to your definition of productivity. To me, production is best judged by # of TD's, but # of catches and yards are also very important evidences of production (over "potential" production).

Justin Hunter, WR:
2012 = 73 catches for 1083 yards, 9-TD's, (#26 of all WR's in 2012 by yardage)
Career = 106 catches for 1812 yards., 18-TD's

Steadman Bailey, WR:
2012 - 114 catches for 1622 yards, 25-TD's, (#3 of all WR's in 2012 by yardage)
Career = 210 catches for 3218 yards, 41-TD's, (Bailey's career TD total is more than 2x Hunters.)

Bailey had more catches in 2012 than Hunter has had in his career. IMO, Bailey had more productiuon and it's not by a small margin. I'm not touting Bailey as a 1-st round pick. I'd like to see him drafted by the Seahawks in round 2 (or possibly in round 3, if they are lucky) - which would be optimum VALUE for the Seahawks. I would hope they also draft another, taller WR in the mid to late rounds to satisy that element. (B. Kaufman, M. Wilson, M. Davis, C. Fuller, etc.) I could also see the Seahawks having interest in Tavarres King, WR, 6'/189, 4.47/40 that had 42 catches for 950 yards last season, that's 22.6 average yards per catch (#1 in that stat.) A probable round 4/5 pick from Georga. I think the Seahawks just need more arrows for RW's quiver. IMO-both speed and the ability to seperate trump undeveloped height in a WR, of course they also have to catch the ball (which is the bigest gripe on Hunter).
http://espn.go.com/college-football/sta ... 2/group/80

I don't like the idea of Hunter to the Hawks, but college numbers are a piss poor way to cross him off your list. By that line of reasoning, Keenan Allen sucks.

McGruff · Mar 8, 2013

Does scheme have anything to do with it, or just raw numbers?

Because one team runs a pro-style offense, and one team runs a goofy college spread offense that inflates receiver numbers.

Or how about QB play?

Because one team had a very average QB, and the other had a Heisman Trophy candidate?

And at the end of the day, if scouting was only about college production, Danny Wuerfell would be winding up a 20 year career with the Broncos instead of Peyton Manning, and David Greene would still be the Seahawks starting QB. But college production is not what scouting is all about, is it? Scouting is about professional projection, and while I like Bailey as a quality 3, borderline 2 . . . its Hunter that projects as a potential #1 receiver in the pros.

theENGLISHseahawk · Mar 8, 2013

Yeah pretty hard to compare production within Dana Holgorsen's air raid offense to a more conventional scheme.

lukerguy · Mar 8, 2013

[youtube]U7Qs7shr5Uw[/youtube]

He may have better tape than this, but this guy doesn't look like a top 3 WR to me in this draft. His hands are awful, and he always catches the ball in close to his body. Even his catch on the 15 yard in route- he bobbled it.

I'm amazing by his fame & speed combo but he seems like more of a project. I think you draft a guy like this and he becomes similar to Michael Floyd in Arizona.

When you watch players, I want to encourage you to view their game tape- not their highlights.

McGruff · Mar 8, 2013

lukerguy":3iuxk9k0 said:
[youtube]U7Qs7shr5Uw[/youtube]

He may have better tape than this, but this guy doesn't look like a top 3 WR to me in this draft. His hands are awful, and he always catches the ball in close to his body. Even his catch on the 15 yard in route- he bobbled it.

I'm amazing by his fame & speed combo but he seems like more of a project. I think you draft a guy like this and he becomes similar to Michael Floyd in Arizona.

When you watch players, I want to encourage you to view their game tape- not their highlights.

I don't watch highlights, just like you.

And you did pick the worst game . . . this was an example of one of my concerns with Hunter in that he does tend to sprial with his drops. That's a legit concern.

And there is no doubt that Hunter is "more" raw than Hopkins . . . notice I didn't say he's raw, but more raw. Raw by comparison. And there's a couple ways you can look at that. You will say that Hopkins is more polished, which would be true. I would say Hopkins is closer to his ceiling, which IMO is lower compared to Hunter. I've said it before, but I get a Rashaun Woods feeling from Hopkins. But he could just as easily be Reggie Wayne.

And Hunter could be Koren Robinson . . . or he could be Randy Moss. Time will tell, but I'm willing to gamble on Randy Moss.

McGruff · Mar 8, 2013

Watch the tape against Missouri for another angle on Hunter

lukerguy · Mar 8, 2013

McGruff":7kiuir9j said:
lukerguy":7kiuir9j said:

[youtube]U7Qs7shr5Uw[/youtube]

He may have better tape than this, but this guy doesn't look like a top 3 WR to me in this draft. His hands are awful, and he always catches the ball in close to his body. Even his catch on the 15 yard in route- he bobbled it.

I'm amazing by his fame & speed combo but he seems like more of a project. I think you draft a guy like this and he becomes similar to Michael Floyd in Arizona.

When you watch players, I want to encourage you to view their game tape- not their highlights.

Click to expand...

I don't watch highlights, just like you.

And you did pick the worst game . . . this was an example of one of my concerns with Hunter in that he does tend to sprial with his drops. That's a legit concern.

And there is no doubt that Hunter is "more" raw than Hopkins . . . notice I didn't say he's raw, but more raw. Raw by comparison. And there's a couple ways you can look at that. You will say that Hopkins is more polished, which would be true. I would say Hopkins is closer to his ceiling, which IMO is lower compared to Hunter. I've said it before, but I get a Rashaun Woods feeling from Hopkins. But he could just as easily be Reggie Wayne.

And Hunter could be Koren Robinson . . . or he could be Randy Moss. Time will tell, but I'm willing to gamble on Randy Moss.

Lots of good stuff here, but I can promise you his upside is nowhere near Randy Moss. Randy Moss ran an unofficial 4.25 out of college with some of the best hands this game has seen. I knew a guy who played against him, they said they put their fastest guy on him who had no issues covering anyone in the past, and he ran past him every time with a safety over the top. They don't call him superfreak for no reason.

CamanoIslandJQ · Mar 8, 2013

McGruff-- ""so I'm confused how you are discounting him based on productivity"

You asked, and I explained why I think Bailey is more productive than Hunter. Exactly how do you measure production, by what some talking head expert says? IMO- college stats are a measure of production, and I fully understand differences in scheme, QB's, etc. However, you are implying that Hunter is productive, even though he hasn't shown that as much as Bailey. Hunter's stats say he's inexperienced and most all scouting reports I've seen are pretty firm in their assertion that Hunter is a body catcher, is inconsistent and drops passes. I don't want to express anything other than MY opinion and I don't want to ruffle your feathers about a player you obviously want the Seahawks to draft. You can have your favorites, and so can I.

PS: I've watched about 15-16 hours of tape specifically on WR's so far this pre-draft season and read many, many scouting reports, so I'm not just throwing a name around, but again, it is just MY opinion, you don't have to buy in at all and of course, you are also entitled to your opinions. Just......Go Seahawks.

volshawk · Mar 8, 2013

Caveat: I am a homer so take with a grain of salt

I've seen every game that Hunter played in his collegiate career and I strongly feel he will be a very good pro. He was WR1 before the injury and severely outplayed Da'Rick. Also, he was a legitimate high jump track star as well. Last year was an enigma as the staff was Dead Man Walking and Hunter was protecting himself for the NFL. Was that mature? No. But he does have a young child, didn't trust his knee and was playing for a sinking ship team. I would love if we drafted him or CP. but, I'm a homer and was very vocal about drafting Berry over ET as well so what the heck do I know.

ImTheScientist · Mar 8, 2013

CamanoIslandJQ":20qyhbf9 said:
McGruff-- ""so I'm confused how you are discounting him based on productivity"

You asked, and I explained why I think Bailey is more productive than Hunter. Exactly how do you measure production, by what some talking head expert says? IMO- college stats are a measure of production, and I fully understand differences in scheme, QB's, etc. However, you are implying that Hunter is productive, even though he hasn't shown that as much as Bailey. Hunter's stats say he's inexperienced and most all scouting reports I've seen are pretty firm in their assertion that Hunter is a body catcher, is inconsistent and drops passes. I don't want to express anything other than MY opinion and I don't want to ruffle your feathers about a player you obviously want the Seahawks to draft. You can have your favorites, and so can I.

PS: I've watched about 15-16 hours of tape specifically on WR's so far this pre-draft season and read many, many scouting reports, so I'm not just throwing a name around, but again, it is just MY opinion, you don't have to buy in at all and of course, you are also entitled to your opinions. Just......Go Seahawks.

Guess we will see how the professional nfl scouts and teams see it in April :th2thumbs:

ivotuk · Mar 9, 2013

Scottemojo":13cm2xot said:
CamanoIslandJQ":13cm2xot said:

""Hunter excels are getting separation and makes catches . . . and has the productivity to show it . . . so I'm confused how you are discounting him based on productivity"".

I guess it may boil down to your definition of productivity. To me, production is best judged by # of TD's, but # of catches and yards are also very important evidences of production (over "potential" production).

Justin Hunter, WR:
2012 = 73 catches for 1083 yards, 9-TD's, (#26 of all WR's in 2012 by yardage)
Career = 106 catches for 1812 yards., 18-TD's

Steadman Bailey, WR:
2012 - 114 catches for 1622 yards, 25-TD's, (#3 of all WR's in 2012 by yardage)
Career = 210 catches for 3218 yards, 41-TD's, (Bailey's career TD total is more than 2x Hunters.)

Bailey had more catches in 2012 than Hunter has had in his career. IMO, Bailey had more productiuon and it's not by a small margin. I'm not touting Bailey as a 1-st round pick. I'd like to see him drafted by the Seahawks in round 2 (or possibly in round 3, if they are lucky) - which would be optimum VALUE for the Seahawks. I would hope they also draft another, taller WR in the mid to late rounds to satisy that element. (B. Kaufman, M. Wilson, M. Davis, C. Fuller, etc.) I could also see the Seahawks having interest in Tavarres King, WR, 6'/189, 4.47/40 that had 42 catches for 950 yards last season, that's 22.6 average yards per catch (#1 in that stat.) A probable round 4/5 pick from Georga. I think the Seahawks just need more arrows for RW's quiver. IMO-both speed and the ability to seperate trump undeveloped height in a WR, of course they also have to catch the ball (which is the bigest gripe on Hunter).
http://espn.go.com/college-football/sta ... 2/group/80

Click to expand...

I don't like the idea of Hunter to the Hawks, but college numbers are a piss poor way to cross him off your list. By that line of reasoning, Keenan Allen sucks.

"piss poor way to cross him off your list?" Based on what he has said in his other posts, I don't think that is the complete reasoning for Camano's choices. He is making "a" point in a comparison between 2 receivers and I really don't see where you get the idea that his whole reasoning is based on that one thing.

Scottemojo · Mar 9, 2013

ivotuk":2g7ss8xs said:
Scottemojo":2g7ss8xs said:

CamanoIslandJQ":2g7ss8xs said:

""Hunter excels are getting separation and makes catches . . . and has the productivity to show it . . . so I'm confused how you are discounting him based on productivity"".

I guess it may boil down to your definition of productivity. To me, production is best judged by # of TD's, but # of catches and yards are also very important evidences of production (over "potential" production).

Justin Hunter, WR:
2012 = 73 catches for 1083 yards, 9-TD's, (#26 of all WR's in 2012 by yardage)
Career = 106 catches for 1812 yards., 18-TD's

Steadman Bailey, WR:
2012 - 114 catches for 1622 yards, 25-TD's, (#3 of all WR's in 2012 by yardage)
Career = 210 catches for 3218 yards, 41-TD's, (Bailey's career TD total is more than 2x Hunters.)

Bailey had more catches in 2012 than Hunter has had in his career. IMO, Bailey had more productiuon and it's not by a small margin. I'm not touting Bailey as a 1-st round pick. I'd like to see him drafted by the Seahawks in round 2 (or possibly in round 3, if they are lucky) - which would be optimum VALUE for the Seahawks. I would hope they also draft another, taller WR in the mid to late rounds to satisy that element. (B. Kaufman, M. Wilson, M. Davis, C. Fuller, etc.) I could also see the Seahawks having interest in Tavarres King, WR, 6'/189, 4.47/40 that had 42 catches for 950 yards last season, that's 22.6 average yards per catch (#1 in that stat.) A probable round 4/5 pick from Georga. I think the Seahawks just need more arrows for RW's quiver. IMO-both speed and the ability to seperate trump undeveloped height in a WR, of course they also have to catch the ball (which is the bigest gripe on Hunter).
http://espn.go.com/college-football/sta ... 2/group/80

Click to expand...

I don't like the idea of Hunter to the Hawks, but college numbers are a piss poor way to cross him off your list. By that line of reasoning, Keenan Allen sucks.

Click to expand...

"piss poor way to cross him off your list?" Based on what he has said in his other posts, I don't think that is the complete reasoning for Camano's choices. He is making "a" point in a comparison between 2 receivers and I really don't see where you get the idea that his whole reasoning is based on that one thing.

He is trying to make the case that Bailey is better than Hunter based on college numbers. Just tell me how Bailey is better any way besides stats. Show me tape of Bailey abusing a corner who is going to be a high pick in the draft. Show me Bailey sinking his hips and making a cut. Show me Bailey looking the ball into his hands. But don't compare stats, that is what I mean. Stats may not be his whole reasoning, but in the case of Hunter vs Bailey that is how he framed it.

There are stats that matter. Hunter getting two thirds of his touchdowns vs tiny football schools, that is useful, now I have context. Now I can watch him vs a bigger school and look at who had an easy time shitting him down and why.

Sorry if it sounded harsh. Sometimes I forget that terse text isn't very nice.

ivotuk · Mar 9, 2013

Scottemojo":3ucrcq45 said:
Sometimes I forget that terse text isn't very nice.

LOL! That cracked me up

I've always found it interesting how easy it is for one's attitude or emotions to be transferred to text. You can sometimes learn something about the person posting just by reading. The classic example is: "HOW DID YOU KNOW I WAS ONLY 12?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!" I laughed the first time I read that and since then have always equated all caps with immaturity.

As far as Hunter goes, imaho, I don't think he would hold up a full season and considering that we already have seen injuries with Sidney and Doug, I would prefer to go with a stouter receiver. I would love to get DeAndre Hopkins or Quinton Patten. Patten looked good at the Senior Bowl and some of his highlights are pretty good. Don't know much about Stedman Bailey but Tavon Austin in an interview spoke highly of him. Tavon also has a lot of love for Bruce Irvin

CamanoIslandJQ · Mar 10, 2013

Allright allready,
I should explain my Bailey choice a little better. IMO-The Seahawks priority needs (as of right now, before FA) are DL & OLB. My thought is that rounds 1 and 2 should probably be DL/OLB.
(like D. Jones, K. Greene -or- K. Short, Sio Moore, for example. If that is how the draft goes down, the earliest pick available (without trades of course) for a WR would have to be in rounds 3 and beyond.

Due to Hunters height/speed and "potential" upside, several WR needy teams will jump on him in round 1 or 2 or early round 3 at the latest. it is my feeling that he wouldn't be on the board when the 3-rd round pick (+/- #87) comes up for the Seahawks. It is impossible to know any players positioning in this draft but from all indications I see on the draft rating sites, Hunter is not going to be there anywhere after early round 3. So, WR in round-3 - IMO is where the Seahawks get their guy. Again, IMO the best available WR's in round-3 are Bailey, Swope, Stills, Dobson, Hamilton, Harper & possibly Da'Rick Rogers (if he falls some).

Of that group, with the possible exception of Rogers (if he falls badly), I like Steadman Bailey the best for numerous reasons (including his experience & production). IMO, of the above listed round 3+ WR's Bailey is the most starter ready (and brings to mind Bobby Engram's play in the past), a real safety valve for RW. I also like Swope and I think he could be impactful in year one, his health is a question mark at this time, so Bailey is my 3-rd round choice for now. Does any of this make sense to y'all?

kearly · Mar 10, 2013

Scottemojo":15pz4y4s said:
Hunter is a gangly runner. He runs like RG III in tight quarters, his explosion isn't there when cutting in tight quarters and it gets him smashed.

I didn't mention it in my write-up, but I got RG3 vibes from his running style and leg structure as well.

Scottemojo":15pz4y4s said:
If it was a Seattle scout who leaked this, I see it as just draft talk. I agree that the athletics are right up Pete's alley, but Pete has always liked BIG fast receivers, and slim pickins from Tennessee isn't big. Just fast.

Basically, Mark Harrison.

Justin Hunter SDB article

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