QB Problem

SacHawk2.0":3333kut0 said:

Hey SpokaneTroll,

What's so special about his 8 attempts last year that you think those are relevant?

Do you have a special source that tells you those 8 attempts mean more than his collective body of work?

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Hey NoSac 3.2,

It was the body of work that they allowed him. He did everything they asked and did a fine job of it, thats why it is relevant.
Making up numbers and name calling can be fun, but when we have a recent body of work, we should use that.
(It was the same deal with Flynn) in this "Who cares what you did 2 years ago" world.

Again folks, read the pages before re asking questions. I don't mind being the nice guy and answering them, I just think you would save time and credibility

Name calling is fun, but I didn't make up any numbers.

Why do you suppose he was only allowed 8 attempts?

Here is another one, do you think ANY NFL GM is going to look at only what he did last year and ignore everything else?

It is the same reason why the GM was fired and the coach is on the hot seat...bad management.

When the Jets let him throw he hit his target 75% of the time, so his accuracy was AMAZING and a non issue, again your answer is poor management.

Here is another one, do you think ANY NFL GM is going to look at only what he did last year and ignore everything else?

SacHawk2.0":302pweuw said:

Do you think ANY NFL GM is going to look at only what he did last year and ignore everything else?

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Clearly Tim did not have the best numbers in the NFL during 2011, however the jets and Jags were still on his nuts. So with increasling better % numbers, It would not be a shock.

I have been persuaded. Tebow for HOF!!!

SacHawk2.0":tz5m6zd8 said:

@Teamofthecentury

If you think my opinion of Tebow is based on anything other than his ability as a passer, you're mistaken.

I don't care about the mans beliefs, one way or another.

That subject is completely irrelevant to me. Completely.

He may have a good work ethic and he may be a good team mate, but that won't change his throwing motion and delivery.

It takes tens of thousands of repetitions for something to be ingrained in your muscle memory. How many more would be needed to change the horrible throwing motion he's been using since his high school days?

He may be able to do it in controlled circumstances but we've all seen him revert back when he's pressured. That's because when you're pressured you muscle memory takes over.

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@SacHawk2.O Then, why do you insist on perpetuating Straw Man Arguments? Meaning... you seem to insist that others are arguing that Tim Tebow is an elite QB. Not so. You're throwing the baby out... so, I'm trying to figure out what the bath water is. (No one need educate me on Tebow inadequacies. I get that - though, I also don't believe for 5 seconds that the "football critique" is merely that.) I can't speak for others, but my thought is that He would be a valuable pick up. Never said as a top QB. But, I've watched him play since High School. He's been a winner since that time through the last time he had an opportunity to put a Denver team headed for the toilet bowl and engineered a turnaround as a leader - not the elite stats or mechanics or any other criticisms. Then, beat the Pittsburgh Steelers in the Playoffs. (I was pleased as punch that he "delivered" the ball to Demaryius Thomas to stick it to the Steelers!) All that doesn't "just happen" if you're some chump. He's a winner that wins and will give a team everything he's got. I like guys like that on football teams. Phillip Rivers has odd mechanics. Dan Fouts did, too. And before you jump on me about that... I'm not comparing them as QB's. Just saying that there's more to the makeup of a successful player than merely mechanics. You and others like you on this board do come across to me as though you're taking the media's lead on this with all the hate. Much of that gets amplified by those who hate his Worldview. So, if that's not you and you want to come out and say that's just not so about you... then, fine. But, if you're going to talk about him purely as a football player... at least don't put words into others mouths and attack your own straw man. NEVER, I repeat NEVER... have I heard such criticism about a guy that WINS... and the only things that are talked about are the negatives. The guy is so squeaky clean that no one wants to give him any credit for the positives. I've always respected the approach that if one is going to give constructive criticism... to start with the positives. Critics like to skip that part and just jump to anything and everything they may critique about a player like Tebow who still needs work on his Pro game. So do many others who play the Pro game. The phantom ideal player is always the bar and Tim Tebow is never going to measure up to that. A wise team that is able to utilize his talents and get him producing on the field is going to reap the benefits. Michael Robinson just did that video clip about changing positions. Just think about Tebow coming to Seattle and guys like PC, RW, Mike Rob and all the GREAT guys on this team embracing Tim Tebow... the football player... and him, in return, only caring about being part of making the team he is part of successful? THAT'S Tim Tebow. Not the prima donna that many want to make him to be. He's passionate about God. He's passionate about Football. When things don't go his way... his passion shows there, too. I'd rather have that than apathy. Too, isn't that welcomed in the comPETE philosophy? Still, Tebow is going to be a team player. The whole NYJ thing was a mistake when internally they were not on the same page about him. Wouldn't it be great to see the Seahawks getting out of Tebow what others speculate could be there? If one answers "no", then it logically MUST be something else other than just about him as a football player.

Golden Tate hit 100% of his passes, and he is the same size as Wilson. Maybe we should switch him to QB.

7 of Ladainian Tomlinson's 8 pass attempts went for touchdowns, and he averaged 20 yards per completion. Boo Yah! His coaches were SOOOOOO STUPID! He never should have been a running back with those stats.

These are facts people, and these stats prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that not only should Pete bring Tebow to Seattle, trading away a valuable pick to do so, but Pete should take our most valuable player, Russell Wilson, off the field, or at least take the ball out of his hands, on a handful of plays each game. Tebow's biggest problem with the Jets last year, besides the fact that his throwing motion is timed with a sun dial and looks like he is starting a lawn mower over his shoulder, is that he just didn't get enough snaps to get his playing rhythm going. I think if he got maybe 20 plays a game, Russell wouldn't miss those at all. In fact, since Tebow will run all the option stuff, we will be saving Russell from injury! And, he could teach Russell how to celebrate a touchdown less humbly. Russell's touchdown nothing nothing is dumb!

If you godless heathens would just look at the facts with your Damned to Hell eyes, you would see what I see. Tim does not need the Hawks, but the Hawks need him.

Scottemojo":1orp7l6z said:

Golden Tate hit 100% of his passes, and he is the same size as Wilson. Maybe we should switch him to QB.

7 of Ladainian Tomlinson's 8 pass attempts went for touchdowns, and he averaged 20 yards per completion. Boo Yah! His coaches were SOOOOOO STUPID! He never should have been a running back with those stats.

These are facts people, and these stats prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that not only should Pete bring Tebow to Seattle, trading away a valuable pick to do so, but Pete should take our most valuable player, Russell Wilson, off the field, or at least take the ball out of his hands, on a handful of plays each game. Tebow's biggest problem with the Jets last year, besides the fact that his throwing motion is timed with a sun dial and looks like he is starting a lawn mower over his shoulder, is that he just didn't get enough snaps to get his playing rhythm going. I think if he got maybe 20 plays a game, Russell wouldn't miss those at all. In fact, since Tebow will run all the option stuff, we will be saving Russell from injury! And, he could teach Russell how to celebrate a touchdown less humbly. Russell's touchdown nothing nothing is dumb!

If you godless heathens would just look at the facts with your Damned to Hell eyes, you would see what I see. Tim does not need the Hawks, but the Hawks need him.

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That was that wall of text was about?

I don't want the ball out of Wilson hands at all, unless its to hand it off to Lynch & Turbin. If you're going to be a back up, thats what you're going to be, you're not the staple of anything on this team until an injury happens.

Also to bring up something else, bringing in Tebow for those couple times a game, killed any momentum that Sanchez had going. We saw this in Seattle first hand, Sanchez hit a couple rhythm passes, and then here comes Tebow in to screw everything up, good job coaching! I hope whoever's bright idea that was never finds his stinkin' ass way onto the Seahawks coaching staff, because it was dumb.

When was the last time the old swap QBs during the game at the NFL level really worked? I would say not in last 30+ years.

The starter needs to be on the field playing QB, with the back up subbing in as a holder for FGs and PATs. The Jets screwed themselves with bad coaching.

IF Tim were a Seahawk the only time he would be on the field is during standard pre-season/late game blow outs, PC knows how to coach.

Throwdown":6oo02gjn said:

Bringing in Tebow for those couple times a game, killed any momentum that Sanchez had going. We saw this in Seattle first hand, Sanchez hit a couple rhythm passes, and then here comes Tebow in to screw everything up, good job coaching! I hope whoever's bright idea that was never finds his stinkin' ass way onto the Seahawks coaching staff, because it was dumb.

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I watched and loved that game!
Mark went 9 for 22 that game, and Tebow went 3 for 3, Tebow did not kill Mark's momentum, Mark killed Tebow's momentum.

Spokane":2lu9pr6j said:

When was the last time the old swap QBs during the game at the NFL level really worked? I would say not in last 30+ years.

The starter needs to be on the field playing QB, with the back up subbing in as a holder for FGs and PATs. The Jets screwed themselves with bad coaching.

IF Tim were a Seahawk the only time he would be on the field is during standard pre-season/late game blow outs, PC knows how to coach.

Throwdown":2lu9pr6j said:

Bringing in Tebow for those couple times a game, killed any momentum that Sanchez had going. We saw this in Seattle first hand, Sanchez hit a couple rhythm passes, and then here comes Tebow in to screw everything up, good job coaching! I hope whoever's bright idea that was never finds his stinkin' ass way onto the Seahawks coaching staff, because it was dumb.

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I watched and loved that game!
Mark went 9 for 22 that game, and Tebow went 3 for 3, Tebow did not kill Mark's momentum, Mark killed Tebow's momentum.

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...You can't be serious

Not sure what area your question relates to, but I am guessing its "
I watched and loved that game!
Mark went 9 for 22 that game, and Tebow went 3 for 3, Tebow did not kill Mark's momentum, Mark killed Tebow's momentum."

On the legit side I did watch the game, Sanchez sucked at about 41% and Tebow did his job. When you have a guy going a good job you leave him in.

Throwdown":2u5vd8fs said:

Scottemojo":2u5vd8fs said:

Golden Tate hit 100% of his passes, and he is the same size as Wilson. Maybe we should switch him to QB.

7 of Ladainian Tomlinson's 8 pass attempts went for touchdowns, and he averaged 20 yards per completion. Boo Yah! His coaches were SOOOOOO STUPID! He never should have been a running back with those stats.

These are facts people, and these stats prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that not only should Pete bring Tebow to Seattle, trading away a valuable pick to do so, but Pete should take our most valuable player, Russell Wilson, off the field, or at least take the ball out of his hands, on a handful of plays each game. Tebow's biggest problem with the Jets last year, besides the fact that his throwing motion is timed with a sun dial and looks like he is starting a lawn mower over his shoulder, is that he just didn't get enough snaps to get his playing rhythm going. I think if he got maybe 20 plays a game, Russell wouldn't miss those at all. In fact, since Tebow will run all the option stuff, we will be saving Russell from injury! And, he could teach Russell how to celebrate a touchdown less humbly. Russell's touchdown nothing nothing is dumb!

If you godless heathens would just look at the facts with your Damned to Hell eyes, you would see what I see. Tim does not need the Hawks, but the Hawks need him.

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That was that wall of text was about?

I don't want the ball out of Wilson hands at all, unless its to hand it off to Lynch & Turbin. If you're going to be a back up, thats what you're going to be, you're not the staple of anything on this team until an injury happens.

Also to bring up something else, bringing in Tebow for those couple times a game, killed any momentum that Sanchez had going. We saw this in Seattle first hand, Sanchez hit a couple rhythm passes, and then here comes Tebow in to screw everything up, good job coaching! I hope whoever's bright idea that was never finds his stinkin' ass way onto the Seahawks coaching staff, because it was dumb.

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Nope. I was just trying to use really stupid stats to prop up a really stupid argument.

Scottemojo":my10w5mx said:

Golden Tate hit 100% of his passes, and he is the same size as Wilson. Maybe we should switch him to QB.

7 of Ladainian Tomlinson's 8 pass attempts went for touchdowns, and he averaged 20 yards per completion. Boo Yah! His coaches were SOOOOOO STUPID! He never should have been a running back with those stats.

These are facts people, and these stats prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that not only should Pete bring Tebow to Seattle, trading away a valuable pick to do so, but Pete should take our most valuable player, Russell Wilson, off the field, or at least take the ball out of his hands, on a handful of plays each game. Tebow's biggest problem with the Jets last year, besides the fact that his throwing motion is timed with a sun dial and looks like he is starting a lawn mower over his shoulder, is that he just didn't get enough snaps to get his playing rhythm going. I think if he got maybe 20 plays a game, Russell wouldn't miss those at all. In fact, since Tebow will run all the option stuff, we will be saving Russell from injury! And, he could teach Russell how to celebrate a touchdown less humbly. Russell's touchdown nothing nothing is dumb!

If you godless heathens would just look at the facts with your Damned to Hell eyes, you would see what I see. Tim does not need the Hawks, but the Hawks need him.

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Your cynicism accomplishes nothing. :141847_bnono: If you're directing this rant at me... you're not winning me over. From posts and interactions with you in other threads, I held you in high regard. If this is the way you're going to be... then, my impression of you is going to deflate.
In no way would I see Tebow hitting the field on the Seahawks team unless it's at some sort of H-back role. I do, however, think that the passionate way he has always played the game would be much better than possibly some other backup (if Flynn is traded) should that, God forbid, need be. I see RW as a smart QB as well who will likely avoid injuries. You never know, though. I would rather have a backup QB with the will to win like Tebow than some guy out there scared to make a mistake and just underperform and bring the team down. There could be QB's like Josh Johnson, maybe David Garrard?... I don't know. JS/PC know what they're doing. The only purpose of this (which isn't even speculation) is to say that bringing in Tebow to THIS team wouldn't be a bad idea. Any player coming to Seattle knows it's about Competition and Team. Tebow wouldn't come to Seattle thinking he has any chance to unseat Wilson. No way. He may not even be brought in as a QB. And, for my opinion... NO WAY a trade for him. Only if the Hawks can sign him off the streets for a look (and no guarantee he makes it out of camp.)
The Tebow hate is understandable. Why some of you guys insist upon attacking fellow Seahawk fans with your own "straw-man" arguments is very disenchanting. I'm used to being treated like the only skunk at a garden party by fans of other teams. If this is the way this forum is... it's not going to be worth my time. I was hoping to be able to engage in dialogue with fans of my favorite team. I respect others opinions, but I don't appreciate reading other posters being called dumb and mocking others for their opinions as if there's a standard of agreement on all opinions and if you violate that... you're the target of all to receiving all this sort of treatment. BTW.... THIS is the number one complaint about this board I read on other Seahawk fan forums. Seems to me you all would know that and work to change that perception... which is starting to annoy me.

Spokane":2lst1zdj said:

It is the same reason why the GM was fired and the coach is on the hot seat...bad management.

When the Jets let him throw he hit his target 75% of the time, so his accuracy was AMAZING and a non issue, again your answer is poor management.

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Tebows Season stats for 2012: 6 of 8 passing, so yeah 75% for 4 yards a completion, you're a joke.

Right from the get go you were saying that the negativity towards Tebow must be based on something besides football, so you were basically declaring all talk of Tebow not being good as invalid.

So can it.

pinksheets":3avtz4uw said:

Right from the get go you were saying that the negativity towards Tebow must be based on something besides football, so you were basically declaring all talk of Tebow not being good as invalid.

So can it.

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Is this directed at me? If so, I said nothing of the sort. Again... "straw man argument". From the get go I actually posed that as a question (go back and check), to which I apparently received the venting of both you and SacHawk2.0 That was a pretty quick assumption and verbal assault after only a mere question. I could tell there was some history with you both there, and I'm sorry for that. But, why take it out on me if I wasn't pressing the point in that manner? Let me suggest that you're hearing what you want to hear out of anyone who even mentions Tebow's name and you're just on auto-pilot with assumptions and ready to launch missiles at will. I'm not going to take the time to re-state what I have already stated clearly enough for such a forum. All I'm asking is to not use logical fallacies to accuse those who disagree with your opinions.
Also, since it's on point... (not to speak of religious issues in this forum, but only to address that which is relevant to the current discussion)... using the Lord's name in vain as you did in a reply doesn't help alleviate those suspicions of that very thing I posed in that question. (It's sort of like saying, "I'm not a bigot, you _____") Whether or not one believes that Jesus is Lord, that sort of conduct shouldn't be considered appropriate language in a forum. If it's not "out of bounds" in this forum, then it is insensitive and even bordering on intolerance towards those who do hold Jesus to be God incarnate. Since that is so very prevalent today, that is partly why Tebow is so polarizing. I'll try to wrap this up so to not take it too far down that route for these purposes... but, I just don't get why it's necessary to use that language? To me, if you have any wherewithal whatsoever that using the name of Jesus like that is possibly offensive to others... why use it in such a manner? It's unnecessary and even calculated. You have a choice whether to use such language in a public forum or not.

Oh for Zeus's sake.

pinksheets":10wvjr7x said:

Oh for Zeus's sake.

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As long as you can amuse yourself... your happy, right?

I think we have went over every area that this thread really should have. And even though up to this point the banter has been in fun, I could see a true name being called due to the pain of just running over the same information. So I am out on this thread. I had fun!