McGruff wrote:

SalishHawkFan wrote:How fast is Abraham? Is he an edge rusher or does he use technique? Is he better hand on the ground or does he fit the LEO mold of standing up, lined up a little wide?

Just stop it. LEO does not stand up. Or does so rarely.

The whole point of the Leo is that he can do both. At USC we used 2 linebackers (Cushing and then Matthews the following year) in that role. Sometimes they'd put their hand in the dirt and sometimes not.

DJrmb wrote:

Lady Talon wrote:

DJrmb wrote:I think Greg Scruggs is getting over looked a little bit here.

Not neccessarily, if the Hawks are after Datone Jones as a first round DT, he can play multiple Dline positions. Challenge Red Bryant, be part of a rotation for both ends as well as specialized tackle work. I'm not giving up on Scruggs.

I'm more talking to those that are saying to bring in 3 or 4 D-lineman. I think 2 is the magic number. 1 DT for 3-tech and 1 DE for depth and filling in while Clems out. If you can get a guy or two like Datone Jones that can play multiple positions all the better. I like Greg Scruggs to get more playing time this coming year, he looked pretty good at times last year.

I think we fans in general tend to discount players already on the roster, partly because they were drafted lower or are otherwise not high profile guys.

I also want to see Scruggs get more chances to prove himself.

But I have no problem with adding a FA or two and drafting. The Pete/John mold seems to be to throw a lot of bodies at a problem area and let them fight it out. Just might see that this year with DL/pass rush.

sutz wrote:I think we fans in general tend to discount players already on the roster, partly because they were drafted lower or are otherwise not high profile guys.

I also want to see Scruggs get more chances to prove himself.

We discount players already on the roster if they deserve to be discounted. There's a reason John and Pete are flying in free agents, because they know what we know, there's NO ONE on the current roster than can fill Clemons position. Scruggs is a 7th round draft pick, he's nowhere near ready to start.......and I don't think he'll ever be more than a one or two series a game sub.

DJrmb wrote:

Lady Talon wrote:

DJrmb wrote:I think Greg Scruggs is getting over looked a little bit here.

Not neccessarily, if the Hawks are after Datone Jones as a first round DT, he can play multiple Dline positions. Challenge Red Bryant, be part of a rotation for both ends as well as specialized tackle work. I'm not giving up on Scruggs.

I'm more talking to those that are saying to bring in 3 or 4 D-lineman. I think 2 is the magic number. 1 DT for 3-tech and 1 DE for depth and filling in while Clems out. If you can get a guy or two like Datone Jones that can play multiple positions all the better. I like Greg Scruggs to get more playing time this coming year, he looked pretty good at times last year.

This is the offseason, you can bring in multiple D linemen to challenge each other. since our DE depth was exposed last year, as well as 3 tech DT futility after J Jones was injured, I'm all for a FA DT signing like D. Bryant (or maybe a player like Vance Walker whose a run stuffer and gets penetration) and bringing in a high pick DT and 2-3 more draft picks of DE's along with Abraham. I don't expect all of them to be on the roster. But it will protect against a Clemons cut (not out of the question) and foster competition for the best DL we can build.

I dont care what it costs. Its not my money.

Just get someone who can make the other QB fall down and go boom!

sc85sis wrote:

McGruff wrote:

SalishHawkFan wrote:How fast is Abraham? Is he an edge rusher or does he use technique? Is he better hand on the ground or does he fit the LEO mold of standing up, lined up a little wide?

Just stop it. LEO does not stand up. Or does so rarely.

The whole point of the Leo is that he can do both. At USC we used 2 linebackers (Cushing and then Matthews the following year) in that role. Sometimes they'd put their hand in the dirt and sometimes not.

That's a fact however, we have yet to do it here, so......

djb28 wrote:I dont care what it costs. Its not my money.

Just get someone who can make the other QB fall down and go boom!

Or like that great Coach Robin Williams said, "Go out and attack all the O's on the field"

Abraham won't sign with us unless the Niners and other teams in a warmer, dryer climates than ours severely undercut his value. Bold prediction: He'll be a Niner when it's all said and done.

He will get way more playing time for Seattle than SF, after the way Brandon Jacobs and Randy Moss got treate, and how much of a d-bag that Harbaugh is I don't think they are that desierable. Plus we crushed them and a younger and only getting better, they are starting their decline now.

Plus, Abraham has to decide this late in his career if he's ready and to not Bly change defensive schemes, but defensive positions.

In SF he'd play OLB.

McGruff wrote:

SalishHawkFan wrote:

McGruff wrote:
Just stop it. LEO does not stand up. Or does so rarely.

Bull. LEO doesn't have to stand up, but it's a hallmark of the position since Carroll coined the term LEO.

A review of Clemons' snaps over the last three years proves otherwise. Clemons is in the up position maybe 10-20% of the time.

And I'm to believe that you just went over watched tape of every down for the last three years and counted. Riiiight.

Tell me, what percentage of each down was Clemons standing? You got to the other numbers so fast, surely you have that stat right at your fingertips.

Looks like he was just estimating. Simmer down.

Wenhawk wrote:He will get way more playing time for Seattle than SF, after the way Brandon Jacobs and Randy Moss got treate, and how much of a d-bag that Harbaugh is I don't think they are that desierable. Plus we crushed them and a younger and only getting better, they are starting their decline now.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but SF is going to be annoyingly elite and a thorn in our sides for years to come.

King Dog wrote:

Wenhawk wrote:He will get way more playing time for Seattle than SF, after the way Brandon Jacobs and Randy Moss got treate, and how much of a d-bag that Harbaugh is I don't think they are that desierable. Plus we crushed them and a younger and only getting better, they are starting their decline now.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but SF is going to be annoyingly elite and a thorn in our sides for years to come.

That is good news. I look forward to the rivalry. I look forward to the competition. I look forward to hating the 49ers. I do not want to win our division because every team in the division sucks, nope I want to win our division because we beat elite teams to earn that honer.

You can not be the best if you can't beat the best

Lady Talon wrote:This is the offseason, you can bring in multiple D linemen to challenge each other. since our DE depth was exposed last year, as well as 3 tech DT futility after J Jones was injured, I'm all for a FA DT signing like D. Bryant (or maybe a player like Vance Walker whose a run stuffer and gets penetration) and bringing in a high pick DT and 2-3 more draft picks of DE's along with Abraham. I don't expect all of them to be on the roster. But it will protect against a Clemons cut (not out of the question) and foster competition for the best DL we can build.

This is the off-season but there is still a salary cap and guaranteed portions in contracts. You can bring in multiple guys to take a look at but you have to be careful. You're playing with fire doing that with FA's unless you are getting them on vet minimum deals with no guarantee's or signing bonuses (which is no one that's been mentioned here so far). One of the biggest focuses of this off-season will be rolling over as much money as possible so we can be ready for the big contracts coming up.

People seem to be failing to realize we're actually in a little worst shape then it seems with our cap. We actually have the highest paid Offense in the league next year!
http://www.overthecap.com/offensebreakdown.php?Year=2013

Wonder if this raises the pressure to sign Abraham. Cullen Jenkins signed with Giants today.

King Dog wrote:

Wenhawk wrote:He will get way more playing time for Seattle than SF, after the way Brandon Jacobs and Randy Moss got treate, and how much of a d-bag that Harbaugh is I don't think they are that desierable. Plus we crushed them and a younger and only getting better, they are starting their decline now.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but SF is going to be annoyingly elite and a thorn in our sides for years to come.

Yeah, I fail to see this 'decline' a few people are wishfully mentioning. The 9ers have plenty of good seasons ahead of them and a great coaching staff. They also dominated against GB and the Pat's...teams we barely scraped out a win against AT HOME. That's before even mentioning our losses to weak teams on the road. Great teams dominate mediocre teams like Detroit and GB, as SF did. Oh, and let's not forget about the almighty Dolphins.

This team needs to prove that they can consistently win road games. If they can't figure that out, they'll be second or third fiddle in a strengthened NFC West.

DJrmb wrote:

Lady Talon wrote:This is the offseason, you can bring in multiple D linemen to challenge each other. since our DE depth was exposed last year, as well as 3 tech DT futility after J Jones was injured, I'm all for a FA DT signing like D. Bryant (or maybe a player like Vance Walker whose a run stuffer and gets penetration) and bringing in a high pick DT and 2-3 more draft picks of DE's along with Abraham. I don't expect all of them to be on the roster. But it will protect against a Clemons cut (not out of the question) and foster competition for the best DL we can build.

This is the off-season but there is still a salary cap and guaranteed portions in contracts. You can bring in multiple guys to take a look at but you have to be careful. You're playing with fire doing that with FA's unless you are getting them on vet minimum deals with no guarantee's or signing bonuses (which is no one that's been mentioned here so far). One of the biggest focuses of this off-season will be rolling over as much money as possible so we can be ready for the big contracts coming up.

People seem to be failing to realize we're actually in a little worst shape then it seems with our cap. We actually have the highest paid Offense in the league next year!
http://www.overthecap.com/offensebreakdown.php?Year=2013

If Branch and Jones sign elsewhere, and Clemons isn't recovering fast enough to justify PUP listing him for months and swallowing his salary and gets cut, there goes a large slice of money that was allocated to the DL.

In that situation, signing Bryant to a fair contract and Abraham to a lesser 1 year along with 1 first round rookie contract, and about 2 late round minimum contracts for competition wouldn't exactly bust the Seahawk's bank.

I wasn't playing addition and forgetting my subtraction.

I am concerned that, with Cullen Jenkins signing, Abraham's price has gone up since the FA pass-rushers' market is a bit thinner. I know that Jenkins plays on the interior, but still, it seems like the market tends to lump the pass-rushing market all together regardless of where the player lines up.

Getting Jason Jones back is a must, IMO, injury history be damned. He was effective at getting a significant push when he played, and his work alone got Bruce Irvin some early sacks on stunts.

Lady Talon wrote:If Branch and Jones sign elsewhere, and Clemons isn't recovering fast enough to justify PUP listing him for months and swallowing his salary and gets cut, there goes a large slice of money that was allocated to the DL.

In that situation, signing Bryant to a fair contract and Abraham to a lesser 1 year along with 1 first round rookie contract, and about 2 late round minimum contracts for competition wouldn't exactly bust the Seahawk's bank.

I wasn't playing addition and forgetting my subtraction.

Well Branch and Jones currently aren't counting against the cap so there's no real saving there (though I know what you mean, we'll have to apply some money as we have to fill those positions with someone). As far as cutting Clemons, I don't think that's very likely. He still has guaranteed money on his contract so you would only save about 2.3M and that is only if he's healthy. If you cut him because he's hurt as you suggest then you have to give him an injury settlement which would likely eat up most if not all of what you would have saved...

DJrmb wrote:

Lady Talon wrote:If Branch and Jones sign elsewhere, and Clemons isn't recovering fast enough to justify PUP listing him for months and swallowing his salary and gets cut, there goes a large slice of money that was allocated to the DL.

In that situation, signing Bryant to a fair contract and Abraham to a lesser 1 year along with 1 first round rookie contract, and about 2 late round minimum contracts for competition wouldn't exactly bust the Seahawk's bank.

I wasn't playing addition and forgetting my subtraction.

Well Branch and Jones currently aren't counting against the cap so there's no real saving there (though I know what you mean, we'll have to apply some money as we have to fill those positions with someone). As far as cutting Clemons, I don't think that's very likely. He still has guaranteed money on his contract so you would only save about 2.3M and that is only if he's healthy. If you cut him because he's hurt as you suggest then you have to give him an injury settlement which would likely eat up most if not all of what you would have saved...

Chris Clemons was injured in the 2012 football year. He was placed on IR and paid his full salary for they year. From what I've read, injury settlements only apply to the current league year in which the injury actually takes place. Ergo, the Hawks are exempt from having to pay him an injury settlement if they release him in the 2013 football year.

If Clemons gets PUPed we have to wait 6 weeks until we can activate him to even practice. Or we can carry him on the roster until he's fit to be activated for a game, or we can IR him again. With either of those 3 options, we'd still have to pay his salary.

HawKnPeppa wrote:
Yeah, I fail to see this 'decline' a few people are wishfully mentioning. The 9ers have plenty of good seasons ahead of them and a great coaching staff. They also dominated against GB and the Pat's...teams we barely scraped out a win against AT HOME. That's before even mentioning our losses to weak teams on the road. Great teams dominate mediocre teams like Detroit and GB, as SF did. Oh, and let's not forget about the almighty Dolphins.

This team needs to prove that they can consistently win road games. If they can't figure that out, they'll be second or third fiddle in a strengthened NFC West.

Yeah because being blown out by the giants is pretty elite. Or not beating the Rams. Football is not that black and white. Will they decline from their stellar records the last two years? Probably, its hard to be that good in the nfl every year. Will they become a crap team? No way. It is unlikely they become a dynasty because all dynasties have something in common and thats a hof qb and most sports people without a san fran bias say kap isnt even the best qb in his division.

Hey, any Info on his actual visit to Seattle...

Don't we still have the rule of 51 in place, where only the top 51 players count against the cap until the cut downs in pre-season? Maybe that starts when FA officially begins?

Cap worries are real, of course, but our guys in the FO have proven to be good at working the system well. If Pete and John follow precedent they've set in place, we will see a mix of FA signings and draft picks thrown at the pass rush situation. I think Lady Talon has it about right. Sign some guys, draft some guys and let the best players win.

Sure, that prices us out of the "top talent" but that has been their modus operandi so far. I see no reason to do this any differently. Hell, they did it (admittedly on a smaller scale) at QB. If they approach "the most important position on the team" that way, why wouldn't they build the DL that way?

Remember, we now have a new cap guy, we will see how all of this shakes out in the next few days/weeks.