How to get Sheldon?

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How to get Sheldon?
Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:54 pm
  • Man, I really want Sheldon Richardson....I keep coming back to him as the only first round player that really fits our needs in the D-line....I hate it when I feel that way.

    Do you think this might be realistically possible?...
    Trade Flynn and our 3rd (4th rounder? 5th rounder? 6th rounder?) to Jets in exchange for flip in positions in the first round (i.e. we get pick #9 and Jets get pick #25). At the #6 spot, I think there is a really good chance that Richardson will be available. Maybe Idzik may still bleed a little blue'n'green and help his old team out.

    My dream draft
    1. Richardson
    2. Swope
    3. traded
    4. Gooden
    5. S. Thomas
    6. Slay
    7. Backup QB

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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:03 pm
  • I like Flynn as much as anyone, and as embarrassed as I am to admit this, I was probably the last person on the Russell Wilson bandwagon.

    That being said, you (as well as the 9000 other posters who have asked the exact same thing) are wayyyyyyy overvaluing his worth. To get from 25th to the 9th pick without Flynn would probably take our first, another first, and a mid-round pick. Essentially, you're valuing Flynn at a first round value. I think he'd be great as the starter on a lot of teams, but nobody is giving us first round value for him.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:07 pm
  • We'd need to include at least our 2nd in that deal.

    It will be interesting to see these tackles shake out. Star is a health concern. Floyd is rising inexplicably, and IMO Richardson is the best of the bunch.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:23 pm
  • We can forget about using Flynn as any kind of heavyweight bargaining chip in a move up into the top ten. There's very little chance of that.

    If Seattle wants to get to #9 the price is pretty simple. The #25 pick, a 2014 first rounder and some change. And as much I LOVE the idea of Sheldon Richardson in Seattle, I'm not making that trade. I think we have to hope he falls into the teens and a team like Pittsburgh would be willing to deal for a R3 and maybe something like a R2 next year. Expensive, but at least you keep a first rounder.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:30 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:We can forget about using Flynn as any kind of heavyweight bargaining chip in a move up into the top ten. There's very little chance of that.

    If Seattle wants to get to #9 the price is pretty simple. The #25 pick, a 2014 first rounder and some change. And as much I LOVE the idea of Sheldon Richardson in Seattle, I'm not making that trade. I think we have to hope he falls into the teens and a team like Pittsburgh would be willing to deal for a R3 and maybe something like a R2 next year. Expensive, but at least you keep a first rounder.


    This sounds more reasonable. Who does Sheldon Richardson compared to in the NFL?
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:33 pm
  • SeahawksFanForever wrote:This sounds more reasonable. Who does Sheldon Richardson compared to in the NFL?


    I hate making comparisons to be honest. He's a gritty, pain in the ass defensive tackle who spends the entire game getting in the offensive line and quarterbacks head. He sprints to the sideline to track the ball even when he doesn't need to. He holds the point tremendously well despite being 6-2 and 293lbs. His best pass rushing years will come and he'll be the type of guy who is constantly having an impact -- if not with sacks, you'll know he's there.

    Brilliant, brilliant prospect. Any 4-3 team without Geno Atkins, Ndamukong Suh or Henry Melton will want this guy.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:52 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    SeahawksFanForever wrote:This sounds more reasonable. Who does Sheldon Richardson compared to in the NFL?


    I hate making comparisons to be honest. He's a gritty, pain in the ass defensive tackle who spends the entire game getting in the offensive line and quarterbacks head. He sprints to the sideline to track the ball even when he doesn't need to. He holds the point tremendously well despite being 6-2 and 293lbs. His best pass rushing years will come and he'll be the type of guy who is constantly having an impact -- if not with sacks, you'll know he's there.

    Brilliant, brilliant prospect. Any 4-3 team without Geno Atkins, Ndamukong Suh or Henry Melton will want this guy.


    I think Richardson is impossible to compare. I've never seen a DT play the whole field the way he does.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:53 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:We can forget about using Flynn as any kind of heavyweight bargaining chip in a move up into the top ten. There's very little chance of that.

    If Seattle wants to get to #9 the price is pretty simple. The #25 pick, a 2014 first rounder and some change. And as much I LOVE the idea of Sheldon Richardson in Seattle, I'm not making that trade. I think we have to hope he falls into the teens and a team like Pittsburgh would be willing to deal for a R3 and maybe something like a R2 next year. Expensive, but at least you keep a first rounder.


    That just kills me.... I can't trade next year's 1st. Maybe next year's 2nd.

    If we can't get Sheldon in the 1st, I might just rather go for a pass-catcher in 1st. I'm really just not excited about the other DTs for round 1.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:38 pm
  • As soon as I read the title I thought Flynn plus our first and second this year for the jets first. I'd like to think if any compensation next year would be based on his success either we give less if he does good or we get something back if hour does good.

    I'm starting to feel that if we can't get Star or richardson in the first we should go wr/te as I don't think the value is good at #25 for dl.
    Last edited by Wenhawk on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:20 pm
  • HunnyBadger wrote:Man, I really want Sheldon Richardson....I keep coming back to him as the only first round player that really fits our needs in the D-line....I hate it when I feel that way.

    Do you think this might be realistically possible?...
    Trade Flynn and our 3rd (4th rounder? 5th rounder? 6th rounder?) to Jets in exchange for flip in positions in the first round (i.e. we get pick #9 and Jets get pick #25). At the #6 spot, I think there is a really good chance that Richardson will be available. Maybe Idzik may still bleed a little blue'n'green and help his old team out.

    My dream draft
    1. Richardson
    2. Swope
    3. traded
    4. Gooden
    5. S. Thomas
    6. Slay
    7. Backup QB

    :179417: ...don't wake me up... :177692:


    I started a Sheldon Richardson trade scenario post in order to illustrate the problem associated with doing that. In that scenario, I asked hypothetically IF Richardson were to fall down to the #15 Pick somehow ... would it be worth it for the Hawks to trade up to grab him ... and what would it cost? Here is what I said in that posting on the cost of just going from #25 to #15 ...

    It IS a bit antiquated, but Jimmy Johnson's old point formula for the draft is definitely useful here.

    According to his chart, the #15 Pick is worth 1,050 Points.
    The #25 Pick (which the Hawks currently hold) is worth 720 Points.

    So IF (in theory) one were looking to move up in to that range ... somehow, some way you've got to come up with about 300 more points. And that #56 Pick (according to the chart) just so happens to be worth 340 points. There you go -- the likely cost of moving up 10 spots to nab him.

    Source:
    http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=65941

    Now that's just 10 spots, mind you. To hop up there to #6 would be incredibly expensive. According to Johnson's point value chart, the #6 Pick is worth 1,600 Points. The #25 Pick again is worth 720 Points. In your scenario here, trading our 2nd Round pick (340 Points) gets us up to just 1060 Points (540 points short). On 710 ESPN today, Clayton talked about a Flynn draft day trade scenario and thought at best he'd be worth a 3rd. So, best case scenario -- let's say hypothetically if he were worth the 1st Pick in the 3rd Round that would be 265 Points.

    In other words, even if the Hawks were to flip flop 1st Round positions (as you suggest) ... chip in the #56 Pick ... AND Flynn ... that would net us only 1325 Points -- still 275 points short of what would be necessary to hop up there to the #6 Pick (IF they would go by Johnson's chart and hold fast to it that is). Nice idea in theory ... but such a deal I believe would be much too expensive in reality.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:41 pm
  • Rat wrote:I like Flynn as much as anyone, and as embarrassed as I am to admit this, I was probably the last person on the Russell Wilson bandwagon.


    The Whitehurst avatar is starting to make some sense to me now.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:56 pm
  • SeahawksFanForever wrote:Who does Sheldon Richardson compared to in the NFL?


    I love making player comparisons. Never perfect, but powerful nonetheless as an easy abstract way of communicating something intensely complex.

    That said, there are so few good DTs in the NFL, or even in recent decades, that it's tough to find one that seems appropriate. In terms of attitude and intensity, he reminds me of Warren Sapp, but Sapp was so much more dominant physically.

    Another player he reminds me of a little is Derek Wolfe, a DT I loved last year who was an early 2nd for the Broncos and had 6 sacks in his very first season. Both have "bumble bee" bodies, for lack of a better term. Smallish lower bodies but giant back/shoulders.

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    Watching Richardson, I feel like I am watching a giant bumble bee up there. It's weird, but that's what his body type always reminds me of.

    Derek Wolfe was the same thing body type wise.

    Both were extreme high motor types too. Unfortunately, Wolfe was actually a better prospect. He was a beast against the run (Richardson is okay but not amazing), and Wolfe has a shitload of upper body strength, a little like John Simon. Wolfe basically "beasted" around blocks, Richardson is more of a quick/smart/arm-use/athletic guy.

    I wouldn't trade up for Richardson. This draft is too good. Too deep. You'd be giving up two really good players for one. However, if it did happen I'd support it. That's a steep price to pay, but Richardson will make a difference for us, and the list of difference makers in this draft at DT is a very short one.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:45 am
  • Thanks theENGLISHseahawk and kearly!

    One more question, Would you guys consider him as "can't miss prospect"? Not comparing them directly, but Suh was can't miss prospect in my opinion.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:09 am
  • kearly wrote: In terms of attitude and intensity, he reminds me of Warren Sapp, but Sapp was so much more dominant physically.

    Another player he reminds me of a little is Derek Wolfe, a DT I loved last year who was an early 2nd for the Broncos and had 6 sacks in his very first season. Both have "bumble bee" bodies, for lack of a better term. Smallish lower bodies but giant back/shoulders.

    Image

    Watching Richardson, I feel like I am watching a giant bumble bee up there. It's weird, but that's what his body type always reminds me of.

    Derek Wolfe was the same thing body type wise.

    Both were extreme high motor types too. Unfortunately, Wolfe was actually a better prospect. He was a beast against the run (Richardson is okay but not amazing), and Wolfe has a shitload of upper body strength, a little like John Simon. Wolfe basically "beasted" around blocks, Richardson is more of a quick/smart/arm-use/athletic guy.
    .


    I loved Derek Wolfe last year too, too bad we didn't stand a chance of getting him. I think Mizzou's colors are somewhat bumblebee colors too, gold and black. But that comparison is a great one, always buzzing around, annoying the crap out of the offensive line, covering long distances and he has a real "sting" when he lays the wood to the offensive player.

    I would love a trade up to get this guy and I think the number of good players available in the first round on the offensive line may cause him to slide a bit, especially if the team considering him has a need on that side of the ball and also ranks other DTs such as Short just below Sheldon.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:14 am
  • Out of these two scenarios, Which one would you guys prefer?

    Scenario 1: Trade up and get Richardson. This involves giving up a lot of draft picks.

    Scenario 2: (Assuming Bears don't franchise Melton) Sign Melton to a big enough deal that he chooses to come here. This scenario might bring cap issues in the near future knowing that we have to sign a lot of our young guys.


    Both are somewhat risky scenarios but the reward is there as well. If you must pick one, What do you guys prefer out of these two scenarios?
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:41 am
  • SeahawksFanForever wrote:Out of these two scenarios, Which one would you guys prefer?

    Scenario 1: Trade up and get Richardson. This involves giving up a lot of draft picks.

    Scenario 2: (Assuming Bears don't franchise Melton) Sign Melton to a big enough deal that he chooses to come here. This scenario might bring cap issues in the near future knowing that we have to sign a lot of our young guys.


    Both are somewhat risky scenarios but the reward is there as well. If you must pick one, What do you guys prefer out of these two scenarios?


    Personally? I'd do both.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:56 pm
  • McGruff wrote:
    SeahawksFanForever wrote:Out of these two scenarios, Which one would you guys prefer?

    Scenario 1: Trade up and get Richardson. This involves giving up a lot of draft picks.

    Scenario 2: (Assuming Bears don't franchise Melton) Sign Melton to a big enough deal that he chooses to come here. This scenario might bring cap issues in the near future knowing that we have to sign a lot of our young guys.


    Both are somewhat risky scenarios but the reward is there as well. If you must pick one, What do you guys prefer out of these two scenarios?


    Personally? I'd do both.


    That would be amazing if they can figure out a way to get them both.
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Re: How to get Sheldon?
Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:22 pm

Re: How to get Sheldon?
Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:23 pm
  • It depends how far Sharif Floyd and Star Lotulelei fall, but I don't think he gets past the Panthers at 14.
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