Talk about businesses failing because they can't afford to pay their employees, you eliminate all the illegal workers and business owners are going to be dreaming of a $9 minimum wage.

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Tanzania¹²

Most businesses would be just fine. The money saved by hiring illegal immigrants isn't going towards anywhere but greedy pockets.

So let's recap this thread: Lowering the minimum wage would allow businesses to offer current products at lower prices and add new products thus attracting new business, while the money saved on employing illegal workers "isn't going towards anywhere but greedy pockets."

Sweet. The bad guys are so easily identified, it's like a Dick Tracy movie. Glad we got that worked out. You can close the thread now.

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Tanzania¹²

I'm not sure how you think you can mix my opinion with someone elses and come to a conclusion. I don't think that we should lower minimum wage. I don't think the fed should raise theirs. I think it should be up to states to set the wage for their particular region, because what is reasonable in one area isn't in another. As for what companies would do, they will sell their products at the highest price they can get consumers to purchase it. Competition is what drives the price down to where they aren't overly greedy. Without competition, they'd charge more and pocket that too.

Sadly, the conclusion lacked any sort of resolution. I think you and fenderbender need to work out some differences.

I agree with your opinion on minimum wage, btw.

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Tanzania¹²

Because, you know, fuck everyone else. Amiright?

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Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Whatever, Stalin.

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My single greatest contribution to the board: "42-13" (formerly 24-14)

I'm not saying that one thing definitely will or will not happen. If we lowered the minimum wage (something I never even stated I supported), we would see dynamic results. To say nobody will lower their prices is bullshit. To say nobody won't pocket the extra change is bullshit too. Lowering the minimum wage could have just as many positive effects as negative ones.

Conservatives are the ones who want to pay as little tax as possible? Then WTF is Apple and Google and their offshore tax havens saving them BILLIONS in taxes that other corporations have to pay? Riiiiiight, it's just conservatives that pay as little tax as possible LMAO.

Charlie Rangel is talking out of his ass somewhere right now.

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"Are we rockin' and rollin' or what?!''

-- Seattle coach Pete Carroll, celebrating with his coaches after the Seahawks pulled off a trade with the Jets, netting running back Leon Washington on Saturday, via Seahawks.com

If you're sitting around having kids just to boost your per capita checks and blowing everything you get on three-day weekends at the casino, then yeah, you betcha.

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Thanks for making the point. I can think of no more conservative organizations than the ones you mentioned.

Corporations are the very soul of conservatism, especially over the last 30 years when they have been running rampant.

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Talent can get you to the playoffs.
It takes character to win when you get there.

If you're sitting around having kids just to boost your per capita checks and blowing everything you get on three-day weekends at the casino, then yeah, you betcha.[/quote]
wern't all these social safety nets created by Conservative Demigod Ted Roosevelt?

Republican does not = conservative. I don't know why people think the two are always interchangeable.

A lot of modern day Republicans "claim" a lot of great presidents who were at the time in the republican party like Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt. I'm not sure if they are trolling or not when it comes to the fact that Democrats and Republicans "switched sides"

Because that describes everyone who benefits from social programs! Painting with super wide brushes is fun!

Now let's talk about how the WBC means that all Christians are awful bigots!

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Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Republican platform is both socially and fiscally conservative. Socially liberal and fiscally conservative is Libertarian. Socially liberal and fiscally liberal is Democrat.

If you think the Republican party has been fiscally conservative, you are seriously off your rocker. They may hound the democrats for spending, but they spend as well. They just do it in a different manner. Neither party is fiscally conservative.

I totally agree with this man typed.......................

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Ok folks, let's look at the real problems here. It's not the minimum wage and increasing the minimum wage doesn't solve the problem. Artificially redistributing the value of money (ie raising the minimum wage) is what causes inflation, so adjusting minimum wage for inflation just causes more inflation. If you raise minimum wage you devalue everyone else's dollar, unless the work being performed actually produces a higher market value than minimum wage. And there is the real problem. Businesses are paying minimum wage for jobs that probably deserve a higher consideration because it's a buyers market on the job front and they get plenty of applicants. If you raise the minimum wage, in those cases where employers are underpaying employees it will bring things closer to equilibrium, but you also unbalance any job where the marginal value of an employee is exactly at or below the current minimum wage. A sweeping change will not fix this problem.

I'm certainly not proposing government regulated pay scales for private businesses, but it could be argued that the free market is not self correcting with unemployment numbers so high. Lets say you have complete transparency and you know that the job you're doing for $10/hour really has a value to your employer of $14/hour. You should demand a raise and the employer would be "right" to give it to you. However, there are thousands of people currently out of work who have the skillset to do your job, so you risk getting replaced by someone who is willing to do it for $10/hr because it's better than $0. Competition drives wages down, just like it drives down prices. So then you can see that the free market isn't allowed to work at all because of the minimum wage. Imagine if the Government tried to tell you that you have to pay at least $10,000 for a car, no matter how shitty it is. In kind, employers are forced to pay minimum wage for employees who may contribute less value than that to the end product and have to compensate by underpaying higher value employees.

When you raise the line on that minimum wage, employers have to decide between raising marginal prices to compensate or mitigating the lost value by underpaying their higher value employees. Maybe the engineer who makes $40/hr should be making $42/hr but since minimum wage went up the employer pays less for their engineers. This doesn't sound like a big deal, $40/hr is pretty good money but you're devaluing everything that engineer worked for, his degree, his experience and you're rewarding some nitwit that hasn't bothered to gain a skill.

I say the answer is more social programs to help people gain valuable skills, particularly in areas of present need to the overall populace. If the minimum wage isn't enough to afford basic needs, there are social programs for families that need help. I would propose adding an education element to all monetary assistance programs. It would cost more to fund the program, but rather than simply throwing dollars at a welfare recipient, give them the necessary assistance to maintain basic living standards and make it a requirement that they perform satisfactorily in an educational program aimed at getting them employed above a minimum wage level. People not able to perform satisfactorily in an educational program due to basic douchbaggery can get bent while those who have a learning disability should be in a different program.

The problem I still have is how to fund the above programs. You clearly create jobs because you need social workers and educators to pull it off but where does the money come from? Deprivatize, and legalize weed, blow and pills IMO.

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President of the Perfect Parents Society - est. 2013

I never said that everyone does. But enough do to make social programs infeasible.

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