This. Especially the bolded part. Benefits free up more salary to be spent which benefits everyone. Benefits should not be a job based thing but a needs based thing. A 24 year old would not need benefits because they will be on their parents insurance until they are 26 (as Obamacare says). A 27 year old though, would be more likely to need benefits in a job. What say you guys? Age based benefits system or one that includes more people in general?

_________________
Brass knuckles and a 2x4.

Minimum wage should go up. However since minimum wage is going up doesn't mean everyones wages should rise.

If you were making $10 before you should make $10 now (if that is the skill level necessary for your job).

I don't know about a 1.75 increase, but maybe up to $8?

_________________
RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

You're obviously a retard. The reason the federal minimum wage exists is to create a baseline for human employment. Or we could go back to the solely supply/demand days when you could get away with paying someone a pat on the back because that was there only option.

I would love to know what your job was. I bet I could hire a kid in India to do for a dollar a day and probably be better.

_________________
RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

Obummer doesn't pass budgets, (Republican Controlled) Congress does that. Obummer can only suggest budgets.
and the rich are paying historically low tax rates. History shows that the lower tax rates that they pay the economy is doing its worst. Trickle down econmics worked out great for Bush's final years? (I know it was not the only factory)

Reagan raised taxes, so did bill clinton.



Rich people having more money does not create jobs, more people in the middle class increasing demand will create jobs.
You have to create demand, Supply and Demand is the basis of Capitalism.

Profit doesn't scare business owners and investors. If there is a profit to be made from a investment, a investor isnt going to be say "I Dont know if i want to pay my employees $9.00" or "I dont want to because I do not want to pay those high taxes".

And if he/she doesn't, thats the thing about capitalism, someone else will

Simple. If minimum wage is lowered, then restaurants can either lower the prices of their goods or add additional services.

Ok. You've given your answer, now show your work. I'd love to see the math.

_________________
Tanzania¹²

Or they will keep everything the same and just pocket the additional profit, which is far more likely.

Heaven forbid people get paid their actual market value for their profession. Honestly though, I actually don't mind minimum wage laws as much as other forms of social needs corrections. It's simple and effective at establishing the baseline you're referring to, however the vast majority of people working full time minimum wage jobs aren't in poverty or don't need the extra money.



It's funny you say that, cause I actually work at a call center so you probably could

so I'm pretty well convinced fenderbender has no idea what the fuck he's talking about.

_________________
Tanzania¹²

Lets say a restaurant owner has to generate $50,000 a month to cover his costs. If employment costs go down $2,000 a month, then he only has to generate $48,000 to cover his costs. Lowering prices could be an option.

Also, most restaurants I'm aware of raise their prices when minimum wage goes up. I worked at a restaurant for several years and it was an annual thing. Why couldn't the reverse happen?

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not (still a little new to the board)

Think a little deeper.

What if your competitor(s) lowered prices to attract business?

If prices don't drop then the extra profit could become a barrier for future price increases.

That sounds great. Sounds like a problem out of an 8th grade algebra textbook.

How bout some real numbers? A business that has an overhead of $50,000 that has how many employees? How much does the owner take home? What's to keep him from pocketing the savings? How low does the minimum wage have to go to save that $2000, and then what do they do with that money that attracts business to the point that those employees that took the pay cut are now making more in tips?

I'm not saying that you're wrong (I'm kind of saying that you're wrong) but I'm very curious to know how this all works out mathematically.

_________________
Tanzania¹²

I realize that when it comes to real world examples we'd be dealing with an endless amount of other factors

As for my original comment, I think it's reasonable to claim that some restaurant owners could lower their prices as a result of less overhead, especially since many raise their prices as a result of more. An owner could pocket the extra dollars if he chooses to do so, but keep in mind that this new minimum wage is going to be effective for his competitors too, so if they choose to spend the extra wealth on lowering prices or increasing services, then our restaurant owner might lose some of his clientele to his competitors.

I didn't get any sleep last night so if what I'm writing isn't making any sense it's cause I'm a bit loopy and for that I apologize. When I first made the comment I was really just throwing out a possibility...which is why I used the qualifier "could".

A drop in minimum wage, and thus to the overall costs of running a restaurant, would see drops in the cost of product. While the owner could feasibly keep the costs, competition would indicate he'd make more by lowering his prices to beat or match competitors. We see this all the time with businesses.

An increase in minimum wage would similarly be passed on to the consumer. The business still needs to meet profit margins.

_________________
I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.

If the minimum wage was lowered by enough, right now, would some prices come down? Sure. But not if they didn't have to. If competition dictated it then yeah, but businesses aren't just going to lower their prices just because they all of a sudden have a lower overhead. They'll do it if they think it gives them an edge up on the competition, but if a product is selling well at where it's priced now they're not going to just lower the price because they're sweethearts. They're going to do the best they can to increase their profit margin.

Secondly, a well paid employee is a happy employee. If the minimum wage dropped $2-$3 an hour, or whatever increment we're hypothesizing here, there would be a lot of unhappy burger flippers, wait people, convenient store clerks, popcorn scoopers and soda pourers. A bag of popcorn might drop $0.50 (still don't think this is likely) but I imagine the service you'd be receiving, at least until the change levels out, is going to get exponentially worse.

Thirdly, fender's original comment was that as a result of all this, business would go up ergo workers' tips would go up. Maybe if you worked at a shitty slow restaurant that people were literally avoiding due to the high price in food, and now that the prices have come down a bit business has increased, but not the the point where the owner had to hire more employees (which would in turn raise the overhead once again and boom, right back to the higher prices, no?).

_________________
Tanzania¹²

Wal-mart pays their employees shit, they also get subsidized by the federal government (Crony Capitalism) and essentially we have to pay for their employees food stamps and medicaid. Stores like Target are actually on par with Wal-Mart in terms of prices. Stores like Costco pay their employees about $11 an hour and their prices are cheaper than wal-mart when purchasing items pound per pound.

Well, items sold in bulk are almost always cheaper anyway.

_________________
GO HAWKS!!!

Visit my Seahawks blog at 17power.blogspot.com!

Follow me on Twitter at @17power

So they are selling for less therefore profiting less and paying their employees more.
Caught You red handed.

Lowering the minimum wage would do little to nothing. In reality wage is hardly the biggest problem. If a business has A expenses he'll charge A+B. If his product isn't worth A+B (supply/demand) then his product is not worthwhile. If another company's A is less than his company's A then his B better be lower.

Raising minimum wage has the same effect. If your product isn't viable with a higher minimum wage then your product isn't viable. New products will replace it.

Minimum wage should reflect inflation.

I view business in the same way that many of you view individuals. If it fails, let it fail. If it succeeds, no limits. No helping, do it on your own.

_________________
RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012