The Thurmond III Experiment

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The Thurmond III Experiment
Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:38 pm
  • Look I know the guy had some upside, dude cannot stay healthy, I think its time to let him go. Has talent but we can't count on the guy...(reminds me of Tubbs, McIntosh et al)
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:53 pm
  • At his minimal salary it doesn't hurt to bring him to camp. Trufant you can assume won't be back. If we draft a corner and it comes down to Thurmond or Lane I might consider cutting him but at this point there is no reason to simply give up on him.

    Sidney Rice was pretty fragile before this season, I'm going to give Walter one more season to see if he can get right.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:56 pm
  • What are the chances that he will play 16 games next year? Less than 50%! Does the Front Office want to take that chance?
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:57 pm
  • the same can be said about James Carpenter, has he even played a full game in the last 2 years???
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:58 pm
  • Call Pete. Make it happen.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:01 pm
  • Too much talent to simply let go. If he can't stay healthy long enough to meaningfully contribute this next year, then not only will he not be on the Hawks roster, but probably not any roster. Remember, he was graded as a first rounder IIRC before he screwed his knee.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:10 pm
  • Don't be too quick to give up on talented players. For one reason or another, people said it was time to give up on Russell Okung (injuries) and Golden Tate (suckiness). Look how they turned out. Just give him some time. He's not making much, and he's not preventing us from keeping enough healthy and capable CBs.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:26 pm
  • I was reading that his injuries were really flukes.
    He should be able to come back this next season and actually contend for Browners spot.
    If not, he will be the nickle back we have needed..
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:38 pm
  • il never give up on WT3!!! not while hes playing on a rookie contract anyways
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:46 pm
  • I think thurmond and carpet probably have the same personal physician.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:01 am
  • Tech Worlds wrote:I think thurmond and carpet probably have the same personal physician.


    Is it RG3s doctor?
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:38 am
  • SPOHAWK wrote:Look I know the guy had some upside, dude cannot stay healthy, I think its time to let him go. Has talent but we can't count on the guy...(reminds me of Tubbs, McIntosh et al)


    I'll get right on it...
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:05 am
  • As if we can make that call? Let the process complete itself. The only thing he had wrong prior to IR was a strained hammy and that's OK now (he replied so to my tweet, surprisingly). So now we have a healthy WT who hopefully is taking good care of his legs. We'll see how that shakes out in TC.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:04 am
  • Certainly not now. At least give him training camp and pre-season to prove himself.

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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:55 am
  • No reason to give up on him when you're paying him pennies. He's a talented player who's had an unfortunate run of luck with injuries, which is exactly how I feel about Carpenter.

    I think both play 14+ regular season games each next season.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:02 am
  • It doesn't really cost us anything more that a spot on the pup list to hold out for Walter to get healthy. When he's in there he is a reeeally good corner. I'd hate to give up too soon.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:28 am
  • I remember people saying Huard was "injury prone" and then a bunch of folks went ballistic and "proved" Huard wasn't really injury prone and had a long career because he went to Indy and never got hurt. Of course, he never took a snap in Indy because he was behind Manning, but he did have a nice lengthy career as a backup QB.

    I think Walter's best chance of lasting a long time is to find a similar gig. Maybe he can be Earl Thomas or Richard Sherman's backup. He'll never see the field, and will have a long career.

    I love the guy's talent. Feel bad that he's always hurt. I actually spoke with one of the most well known orthopedic surgeons in the west as he was operating on my ankle for the third time. He does surgeries for the pro teams in the region as well as BYU, the University of Utah, Utah Valley University, Weber State, Utah State, and many others. He said that some guys ARE injury prone, and those who tend to tear ligaments, have lots of muscle strains/pulls/tears, etc. frequently have what he told me were "hypermobile joints".

    This may have been his dumbing it down for a layman. He explained that some guys have knees and the like that are strong enough that no brace will help them and the steel brace would bend or even break before any bone damage would happen, but because their joints move so much that they suffer damage to the soft tissues after the joint moves too far since they move easily in and out of socket basically.

    Was he pulling my leg (no pun intended)? I am not quite sure.... but I was told by both he and another surgeon that my joints functioned the same way, which was why I could pop my shoulders out and have a doctor pop them back in and keep playing. It is also why some players suffer what looks to be a catastrophic injury to their knee (where it looks like everything just explodes), but they are playing the next week. Their joint has that much 'play' in it, and as long as nothing tears they are fine after the swelling and initial pain subsides.

    It would be akin to being double jointed, but the joint is able to essentially hyperextend in all directions. How might this apply to WT3? Well... in the NFL, those little extra hyperextensions become full on disaster type injuries due to the speed, size, and strength of opponents doing the hitting. Instead of the knee just moving out and popping back in, it just keeps going and the ligament tears instead of doing a "booooing" and popping back into the right spot.

    Could he get past this? I guess it's possible. But there is obviously an issue with the number of ligament, tendon, muscle injuries he has sustained. He may just be more likely to suffer them. He may not be preparing properly with his training. Breaking a bone when you have strong bones can be considered flukey. I think continual injuries to ligaments and other soft structures means something is up. It could be random, but then why aren't Lane and Maxwell suffering the same injuries? They took more hits last year than Walter did and played in 14 or 15 more games. I think at this point you have to assume the guy is just going to suffer another injury and plan as such.

    Hopefully he comes back and never gets hurt again. But how many of you would say that Bob Sanders was injury prone? Was that also a fluke? It doesn't matter. The fact was that he was always hurt even though he was one of the top 5 defenders in the league and the Colts had to give up. He went to San Diego and was hurt yet again. It just happens to some guys unfortunately.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:19 am
  • Yes, hyper mobile joints are a real problem but it's also something that can be compensated for with a correct strength and conditioning program. It's not an accident that some pro sports teams have so many fewer injuries, e.g., 49ers, Suns. Seattle seems to have made progress in this regard itself.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:27 am
  • He has one year left on his contract and isn't making the big bucks. Let him pay out his contract and see what happens.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:40 am
  • Don't get me wrong. I'm all for keeping the guy around and seeing what happens. But I think counting on him to be a nickel or as some have suggested, the replacement during this year for Browner due to his speed advantage is a really careless way to handle things. I think Walter's upside is amazing. He's a great CB when he's healthy. Nothing would make me happier for him personally and for the Hawks as "my team" than to have Walter come through and have this all past him. But to not go in with a couple of backup plans would be very unwise.

    Thankfully we have management that doesn't put their eggs all in one basket. Lane and Maxwell are on the roster, and Lane in particular has shown tremendous growth in just a season. Who knows.... maybe Lane takes over at nickel and Walter takes over as a special teams ace like Lane was and really has a strong season. Let's hope so.

    To go off track a bit further... this is one reason why I've always been a strong defender of Trufant. No matter what, he's gone out and played and played through things that would end other guy's careers (his back problems alone put many people in bed for good, but here Tru is still suiting up on Sundays... as somebody who has been there I couldn't be more impressed). The coaches run him out there and he plays. I'm not questioning Walter's toughness. I'm just saying that he gets hurt a lot and has difficulty recovering. Too bad he doesn't have the capability to recover as quickly and stay healthy as well as Marcus has. If he did, we'd have quite the 3 headed monster at CB. Quite easily the best in the league in my view. No doubt Walter is a rare talent with excellent coverage and ball skills. Let's hope this year is the big turning point. I can't think of anybody who deserves it more after all of the setbacks and hard work he's put in.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:50 am
  • Bigpumpkin wrote:What are the chances that he will play 16 games next year? Less than 50%! Does the Front Office want to take that chance?


    Com'on how many players actually play a full 16 game season? A vast majority miss at least 1 game. You might want to re-frame your question.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:04 pm
  • I say keep the guy another season. He was good when he played and a healthy WT gives the team a nickel option better than most and depth.

    Give him a chance to truly get healthy, it isn't like he is big money player. I see another DB find in the draft coming also.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:14 pm
  • v1rotv2 wrote:
    Bigpumpkin wrote:What are the chances that he will play 16 games next year? Less than 50%! Does the Front Office want to take that chance?


    Com'on how many players actually play a full 16 game season? A vast majority miss at least 1 game. You might want to re-frame your question.


    The vast majority? Are you sure?
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:59 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:I was reading that his injuries were really flukes.
    He should be able to come back this next season and actually contend for Browners spot.
    If not, he will be the nickle back we have needed..


    I wouldn't quite call them flukes he has been injured A LOT going back to college but there is hope he can get healthy.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:22 pm
  • WestcoastSteve wrote:
    I wouldn't quite call them flukes he has been injured A LOT going back to college but there is hope he can get healthy.


    Well If anyone can get get him right, it's the present Hawks S&C guys. Glad they didn't let him do a S. Springs by coming back early and blowing a hole in his hammy.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:20 pm
  • If Thurmond comes back ready, the Legion will thrive.

    I don't think the Hawks should be doing anything with big money DB's, I think they should pick from PC's long list of recruits that he knew of that will be coming out this year. This being his fourth year, he still had some guys in mind that will be available. Thurmond plays? Nickel issue solved, but I would like to see some depth. I think Lane will improve too.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:44 am
  • sutz wrote:Certainly not now. At least give him training camp and pre-season to prove himself.

    :229031_shrug:


    This is the problem. Like Obu, he'll look great in camp and then come up lame a few games into the season. It's easier to tolerate while on a rookie contract, but there comes a time when he's just killing others possibilities.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:35 am
  • He has one more year left on his rookie deal. He will be on the roster this year unless he gets IR'd I'm sure. And given his history, we certainly cannot rule that out. He will do everything he can though, this is his last chance to get a decent second contract.
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:35 am
  • Cut him now!
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Re: The Thurmond III Experiment
Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:07 am
  • debevemos wrote:No reason to give up on him when you're paying him pennies. He's a talented player who's had an unfortunate run of luck with injuries, which is exactly how I feel about Carpenter.

    I think both play 14+ regular season games each next season.


    Carp's kind of on the Max Unger carreer path:

    Unger- Plays first year out of position- Guard and is underwhelming. 2nd year- get's injured after 1 game. 3rd year- becomes a fixture at Center and plays very well.

    Carp- Plays first year out of position - Right Tackle and is undewhelming. 2nd year He's injured, but plays 3+ games at LG and plays well. year 3- He should start the OTA's at Left guard fully healthy.
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