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The Radish
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Post subject: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:08 am |
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:18 pm Posts: 14172 Location: Spokane, Wa.
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OkieHawk
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:28 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:48 pm Posts: 702 Location: Oklahoma City
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It is rather sad that the 3rd Amendment is forgotten by people, myself included. I'm not so sure that this will change the minds of those who are so adamant on gun bans, but they should put up a sign like the dummy said 
_________________ 2013 AAR: Chris Harper
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Vetamur
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:36 am |
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:41 pm Posts: 5049
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Factually inaccurate and spreads myths and internet rumors. Awesome presentation.
Also, fails to point out that the Founding Fathers thought that the switch to a republic in itself would solve tyranny. The 2nd amendment mentioning militia wasnt meant to protect people from government, it was meant to protect the government as at the time the US had a very very small standing army, sometimes numbering just in the hundreds and militias were used to protect the government.
Hitler didnt disarm the German population and the law passed in 1938 made it easier for non-Jewish citizens to arm themselves.
The Japanese never had a plan to invade the US. They took all of the Pacific with just 12 divisions and when the Navy wanted to invade a part of Australia, the Army turned them down flat. Japan's goal in WWII was to essentially present the US with a fait acompli and they assumed the US wouldnt fight anymore after having lost their navy in a decisive battle.
The seemingly "even handed" tone of the presentation is quite smart because it just hits familiar talking points but makes them sound so unique because they arent being screamed.
_________________ “If somebody thinks they're a hedgehog, presumably you just give them a mirror and a few pictures of hedgehogs and tell them to sort it out for themselves.”
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OkieHawk
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:27 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:48 pm Posts: 702 Location: Oklahoma City
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Funny Vetamur, you talk about the German gun law of 1938, but fail to mention that while it made it easier for non-jews to have weapons, Jews were restricted first from manufacturing guns and ammo, and then from having firearms. This of course made it easier to round them up with no resistance. So, where is the internet rumors on that fact?
_________________ 2013 AAR: Chris Harper
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:23 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm Posts: 2365
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If the government wants to take over your home do you think your weapons are going to stop them?
How often do the police surround a home with someone with a weapon inside and eventually just give up? 0%? 0/100?
I understand the argument for having weapons as personal protection. But for defending vs. some kind of tyrannical power? No. That's just paranoia.
_________________ RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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OkieHawk
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:29 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:48 pm Posts: 702 Location: Oklahoma City
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But, you have to consider this, if you had a choice to either go down fighting protecting your home from a tyrant, or being herded like cattle to a death camp, which end would you choose? The German Jews couldn't have known that was the possible outcome, but we should, as students of history (I hope). I will choose the defense angle, because if I can take some of them down with me, it may help some of you who don't have guns realize what is happening and arm yourselves.
_________________ 2013 AAR: Chris Harper
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:47 am |
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:40 am Posts: 1704
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OkieHawk wrote: But, you have to consider this, if you had a choice to either go down fighting protecting your home from a tyrant, or being herded like cattle to a death camp, which end would you choose? The German Jews couldn't have known that was the possible outcome, but we should, as students of history (I hope). I will choose the defense angle, because if I can take some of them down with me, it may help some of you who don't have guns realize what is happening and arm yourselves. I hope our soldiers are students of history and choose not to herd Americans to slaughter. Unless future soldiers are robots, in which case we're all boned. Germany took out nations, Jews didn't stand a chance on their own. There were instances of armed Jews and their rebellions were stamped out.
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MontanaHawk05
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:51 am |
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| * 17Power Blogger * |
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:46 am Posts: 9699
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SonicHawk wrote: If the government wants to take over your home do you think your weapons are going to stop them? If the government wants to take over my home, and the reasons are unjustified by the spirit of the Constitution, then it has declared war on its citizens. The government would not then be facing a single individual or family, it would be facing an armed militia of millions, not to mention the torn consciences of some of its own soldiers. That's the situation we're talking about, and it's different from the one you're describing, and also different from the instance of the Jews being stamped out.
_________________ GO HAWKS!!! Visit my Seahawks blog at 17power.blogspot.com!Follow me on Twitter at @17power
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OkieHawk
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:59 am |
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Evan, given the choice, which would you choose though? The armed Jews you speak of made their choice, were they better or worse off than the ones who were put into camps?
_________________ 2013 AAR: Chris Harper
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:00 am |
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MontanaHawk05 wrote: If the government wants to take over my home, and the reasons are unjustified by the spirit of the Constitution, then it has declared war on its citizens. The government would not then be facing a single individual or family, it would be facing an armed militia of millions, not to mention the torn consciences of some of its own soldiers. That's the situation we're talking about, and it's different from the one you're describing, and also different from the instance of the Jews being stamped out. The government would own the media (or vice versa) and they could tell the story to Americans however they please. For all we know you were some paranoid radical threatening the very fabric of this country. We would feel justice was served in your home being raided. 
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:03 am |
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OkieHawk wrote: Evan, given the choice, which would you choose though? The armed Jews you speak of made their choice, were they better or worse off than the ones who were put into camps? Its a moral question. Either way is certain death. Should I die in vengeance or in peace? Vengeance sounds cooler but resisting in peace is more noble. Maybe I could be like Che and do both, then my ugly mug could be all over college kids t-shirts.
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volsunghawk
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:18 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:20 am Posts: 6169 Location: Surrounded by Elway, Tebow, and Manning jerseys
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MontanaHawk05 wrote: SonicHawk wrote: If the government wants to take over your home do you think your weapons are going to stop them? If the government wants to take over my home, and the reasons are unjustified by the spirit of the Constitution, then it has declared war on its citizens. Or it has declared eminent domain. 
_________________ Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.
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OkieHawk
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:19 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:48 pm Posts: 702 Location: Oklahoma City
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12evanf wrote: OkieHawk wrote: Evan, given the choice, which would you choose though? The armed Jews you speak of made their choice, were they better or worse off than the ones who were put into camps? Its a moral question. Either way is certain death. Should I die in vengeance or in peace? Vengeance sounds cooler but resisting in peace is more noble. Maybe I could be like Che and do both, then my ugly mug could be all over college kids t-shirts. Of course it's a moral question, and there is no certainty that it is death either way. There is a strong probability, but not certainty. I also wouldn't say it would be a from vengeance, unless your family was killed in the initial scuffle. And while I can respect your view on a peaceful resistance, but see at how that has fared for many races throughout history.
_________________ 2013 AAR: Chris Harper
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:19 am |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm Posts: 10263 Location: Anchorage, AK
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volsunghawk wrote: Or it has declared eminent domain.  Another interesting old topic rearing it's head 
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:44 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm Posts: 2365
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OkieHawk wrote: Evan, given the choice, which would you choose though? The armed Jews you speak of made their choice, were they better or worse off than the ones who were put into camps? That's a stupid question. History doesn't tell us that the Jews should have been armed. History tells us that the German people should have not stood for Hitler.
_________________ RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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OkieHawk
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:49 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:48 pm Posts: 702 Location: Oklahoma City
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SonicHawk wrote: OkieHawk wrote: Evan, given the choice, which would you choose though? The armed Jews you speak of made their choice, were they better or worse off than the ones who were put into camps? That's a stupid question. History doesn't tell us that the Jews should have been armed. History tells us that the German people should have not stood for Hitler. History tells us many things if you are willing to have an open mind, to include your point about the German people. Does it mean mine is any less valid? It's a matter of perspective, and what you would choose based on historical events that led to a dictator coming into power and committing genocide. If you are unwilling to see past your own views, and actually give something more than a second of thought, then ok, no harm no foul man.
_________________ 2013 AAR: Chris Harper
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SilNWest
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:54 am |
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:51 am Posts: 605 Location: Auburn, Wa
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Vetamur wrote: Factually inaccurate and spreads myths and internet rumors. Awesome presentation.
Also, fails to point out that the Founding Fathers thought that the switch to a republic in itself would solve tyranny. The 2nd amendment mentioning militia wasnt meant to protect people from government, it was meant to protect the government as at the time the US had a very very small standing army, sometimes numbering just in the hundreds and militias were used to protect the government.
Hitler didnt disarm the German population and the law passed in 1938 made it easier for non-Jewish citizens to arm themselves.
The Japanese never had a plan to invade the US. They took all of the Pacific with just 12 divisions and when the Navy wanted to invade a part of Australia, the Army turned them down flat. Japan's goal in WWII was to essentially present the US with a fait acompli and they assumed the US wouldnt fight anymore after having lost their navy in a decisive battle.
The seemingly "even handed" tone of the presentation is quite smart because it just hits familiar talking points but makes them sound so unique because they arent being screamed. The 2nd amendment had many goals, and one of them was definitely to protect the people from a tyrannical government, there are too many quotes by the founders mentioning that for it not to at least be a part of it. The Japanese never had a plan sure, but they of course talked about it. One of the reasons it never went beyond talks was because of the accurate quote in the video.
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MontanaHawk05
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:05 am |
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:46 am Posts: 9699
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12evanf wrote: MontanaHawk05 wrote: If the government wants to take over my home, and the reasons are unjustified by the spirit of the Constitution, then it has declared war on its citizens. The government would not then be facing a single individual or family, it would be facing an armed militia of millions, not to mention the torn consciences of some of its own soldiers. That's the situation we're talking about, and it's different from the one you're describing, and also different from the instance of the Jews being stamped out. The government would own the media (or vice versa) and they could tell the story to Americans however they please. For all we know you were some paranoid radical threatening the very fabric of this country. We would feel justice was served in your home being raided.  They had that obstacle in the Revolutionary War too, but the colonies found their way around it.
_________________ GO HAWKS!!! Visit my Seahawks blog at 17power.blogspot.com!Follow me on Twitter at @17power
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The Outfield
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:19 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:11 am Posts: 1163
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Great video. I think many Americans today have not even read the Constitution, or if they have, it's been many years and they didn't really take the time to fully understand it. The rights enumerated in the Constitution are very important. Our founding fathers fought a war to obtain those rights for the people and very carefully drafted the Constitution to protect those rights. It would be absolutely insane to give up any of those rights.
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Do you have the balls to learn about the 3rd amendment? Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:22 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm Posts: 2365
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The Outfield wrote: Great video. I think many Americans today have not even read the Constitution, or if they have, it's been many years and they didn't really take the time to fully understand it. The rights enumerated in the Constitution are very important. Our founding fathers fought a war to obtain those rights for the people and very carefully drafted the Constitution to protect those rights. It would be absolutely insane to give up any of those rights. Our founding fathers also fought to keep slavery.
_________________ RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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