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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:24 pm 
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As I've said before, half of RG3's passes were screens and shovels to the RB, it's BS that he won by such a large margin; and Luck getting 1 more vote than Wilson? Yeah, ok. Douches.

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:27 pm 
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http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-honors/0ap2000000134408/NFL-Honors-red-carpet-Russell-Wilson

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:28 pm 
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I call shenanigans.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:29 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
As I've said before, half of RG3's passes were screens and shovels to the RB, it's BS that he won by such a large margin; and Luck getting 1 more vote than Wilson? Yeah, ok. Douches.


I agree Wilson should have been closer, but come on man, the thing about dumpoff passes has been squashed. He lead the league in completion % on passes 20+ yards, and actually averaged slightly more yards per pass all year than Russel.

If anything you would say he benefited from a great running game, but of course, so did Russel.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:33 pm 
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DirtSkins wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
As I've said before, half of RG3's passes were screens and shovels to the RB, it's BS that he won by such a large margin; and Luck getting 1 more vote than Wilson? Yeah, ok. Douches.


I agree Wilson should have been closer, but come on man, the thing about dumpoff passes has been squashed. He lead the league in completion % on passes 20+ yards, and actually averaged slightly more yards per pass all year than Russel.

If anything you would say he benefited from a great running game, but of course, so did Russel.



Wilson benefited from a defense and special team that always put him in good position.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:34 pm 
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drdiags wrote:
but RGIII pulled the Skins back.


Ewwwww....


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:36 pm 
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Axx wrote:
DirtSkins wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
As I've said before, half of RG3's passes were screens and shovels to the RB, it's BS that he won by such a large margin; and Luck getting 1 more vote than Wilson? Yeah, ok. Douches.


I agree Wilson should have been closer, but come on man, the thing about dumpoff passes has been squashed. He lead the league in completion % on passes 20+ yards, and actually averaged slightly more yards per pass all year than Russel.

If anything you would say he benefited from a great running game, but of course, so did Russel.



Wilson benefited from a defense and special team that always put him in good position.


Yeh. Just like the Chicago game. They really put him in a good position. Whatever.

Doesn't matter. Wilson has shown he can florish no matter what.

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Rat wrote:
I'm OK with Griffin winning it, although that's obviously not where my vote would have gone.

After this season long debate, it Luck not winning it almost feels like a Russell victory.


+1.

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:03 pm 
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Something like 50 voters? That's pretty lame. The award should go to Robbie3G's publicity agent.

How can a guy that is THAT valuable dissregard his team"s investment and run outside of protection sustaining a VERY predictable injury and have any claim to be the best rookie?

People claim praise on his accomplishments in 12 or so games compared to 17 for Luck and a bright future for the Colt's where he can pick up where he left off...and 18 for Wilson who when deciding to run outside of the pocket did not sustain so much as a scratch allowing his brilliant rookie season to build into a very exciting second season for the Seahawks.

There is no gaurantee that 3Gc P O will be anything next season like he was in season one.

It isn't like he is Adrian Peterson that only has to do one thing well. AND Peterson is a fluke. NOBODY comes back from surgery like THAT. WASH will not have Bobby to help prepare for 2013. He will be lucky if he is healthy enough to play at all until mid or late September. His preventable injury and surgery has put WASH in a very bad position to "Pick up where a healthy 3G left off".

NFC East teams will be going after his repaired knee. RG3's rookie year will end up being a novelty. His award will end up being a joke.

This thing reminds me of Michael Vick's pre NFL publicity and what actually transpired minus the dog abuse.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:18 pm 
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I dunno how a nose tackle falling on your leg is predictable. RG was hurt in a scramble that every last QB in the NFL would have attempted. Down 8, 2 minute warning, had to get the yards. And it helped them win the game which was a downright miracle. So while you look at that as a bad thing, maybe others look at it as a gutsy performance with an unfortunate injury in between. The thing RG3 people need to fear is the designed runs/keeps, but even in that regard, he showed huge improvement throughout the year in protecting himself. You call it predictable because of all those designed runs, but he was never even CLOSE to getting hurt on any of those. Twas a scramble, was unfortunate.

As for Adrian Peterson being a freak, sure he is. But medicine comes a long way each and every year. Did you know they're using stem cells (from the patients own bone marrow) for these knee surgeries treatments in the last couple years? The return timetable gets shorter every year.

The only thing I'm with you on is that it sucks for the Skins to not have RG3 'evolve' as usual through offseason/preseason work. But all the talk (from Skins fans, too) about RG3 being careless and 'disregarding his teams investment' is just ridiculous. That's just not reality, there is no player that changes his style based on how much his team payed for him. He was hurt on a necessary scramble, and otherwise showed that he learned how to protect himself. And the Vick comparisons are getting SOOOOOOOO old....

Again, Russel beat the Skins in the playoffs. The Hawks currently own the Skins as far as playoff games. This little award really shouldn't be getting people so upset..


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:20 pm 
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DirtSkins wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
As I've said before, half of RG3's passes were screens and shovels to the RB, it's BS that he won by such a large margin; and Luck getting 1 more vote than Wilson? Yeah, ok. Douches.


I agree Wilson should have been closer, but come on man, the thing about dumpoff passes has been squashed. He lead the league in completion % on passes 20+ yards, and actually averaged slightly more yards per pass all year than Russel.

If anything you would say he benefited from a great running game, but of course, so did Russel.


Wilson was handcuffed through week 6. Look at the stats at the second half of the season for both of them (a more accurate picture as far as what to expect next year from both QBs) and check again. Wilson led the entire league in a bunch of categories since week 8. I'm not saying the first half doesn't count, I'm just saying you have to remember that our coaching staff kept him hamstrung to try and ease him into the pro game. The Redskins didn't really have to do that with RG3 because they basically copied his Baylor offense. That works for the first year, but he's going to go 5-11 or something if they do the SAME thing next year. Look for the Redskins to change the offense a bit. Defenses aren't stupid, even mediocre ones; they will adjust and be better prepared for the read option, and such.

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:34 pm 
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SO glad it's not Luck!

Wilson or RG3 were way more deserving. Justice prevails!

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:52 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:

Wilson was handcuffed through week 6. Look at the stats at the second half of the season for both of them (a more accurate picture as far as what to expect next year from both QBs) and check again. Wilson led the entire league in a bunch of categories since week 8. I'm not saying the first half doesn't count, I'm just saying you have to remember that our coaching staff kept him hamstrung to try and ease him into the pro game. The Redskins didn't really have to do that with RG3 because they basically copied his Baylor offense. That works for the first year, but he's going to go 5-11 or something if they do the SAME thing next year. Look for the Redskins to change the offense a bit. Defenses aren't stupid, even mediocre ones; they will adjust and be better prepared for the read option, and such.


Saying they simply 'copied Baylor's offense' gives far too little credit to Mike and Kyle Shannahan for what they did with the offense. It was more like a hybrid. If it was as simple as copying a college offense, everyone would do it. On the contrary, wouldn't you have to be one heck of a player to execute an offense that's not supposed to work in the NFL?

They will change the offense a bit, but not because they're scared of the NFL adjusting. You will still see plenty of pistol, and by the way...you know the Hawks do a lot of the same stuff right..?...and it's debatable as to whether Carrol and Harbaugh and others actually picked up on the idea from the Shannahans...at least the execution of it, it's not like they'd never heard of it.

By all accounts, yea, Carrol didn't really 'set Russel free' right away, but it all went as necessary. I watched every Seahawks game this year. For the first 5 weeks or so, Russel looked a little unsure, a little nervous, a little 'uh oh' during some plays, particularly his scrambles...which quickly evolved into what he's great at. But those first 5 weeks were necessary. Again, you're not giving enough credit to these coaches. Are you implying Carroll is a dummy for not 'setting him free' sooner? Maybe it was necessary for him to acclimate to the NFL, as it usually is for any rookie, it's nothing to be ashamed of or anything. RG3 was lights out, driving defenses nuts from week 1, and the only thing that slowed him down was injury.

I think you're forgetting just how similar the Seahawks and Redskins offenses are. You're basically predicting a 5-11 record for your team as well if you think everyone has to change everything every year. Nothing but a knee slowed down the Skins offense, and nothing but letting Matt Ryan get a couple late passes off stopped the Hawks. Did you also forget we're talking about the top 2 running games in the league? That's probably not going to change much (without RG3's yards, the Skins are still top 3 btw). I expect the Skins and Hawks to basically battle for the NFC for the foreseeable future.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:43 pm 
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RG3's yards aren't really relevant. It's the threat of his yards that helped Morris get a lot of yards this year. I also only said 5-11 would happen if nothing changed on offense. Despite what you think, I'm sure Papa Shanahan knows he needs to grow the offense and not do the same thing next year. Either the offense will evolve and be more "pro style", (I use that term rather loosely) or it will result in a good number of losses if it's the same. Just my opinion, we'll see what happens. Of course, your owner's craptastic field may have ruined RG3's mobility forever; we'll have to see how that knee comes back. It's always a crapshoot. Will he come back and be a bionic man like AP, or will it be more like one of the many guys that had their careers cut short or made the poorer? Hopefully the former, but damn, we might have lost against the Falcons because of the two guys we lost due to that crappy field, too. :(

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Pretty much agreed on the field, but really RG3's knee was gonna need a big fix regardless after the Ngata hit. That ugly bend on the field hurt a lot but wasn't really the killing blow, that thing was about to go on any field. Anyway, yea enough players like Clemons and Ed Reed etc, saying it sucks, I'll take their word for it.

I'll also take Trent Dilfer's word to some degree that this was a 'bridge' offense, and of course there should be more pro style plays. But this could be an exception. That's the beauty of the pistol, the threat to run will be there but you can just as successfully pass. RG3 will always be a 'threat' to run, and really Alfred Morris is pretty damn good. You watch his whole seasons worth of runs and it's certainly not just a result of RG3. Each announcer, every game mentioned his yards after contact, he's beasty, like baby beast mode. It's the same reason RW is still going to be able to scramble around and get guys open on play action, Marshawn has to be respected.

And they ran the ball at a higher % than anyone in the league......just ahead of Seattle. Having THAT either makes it easier to play around with your passing plays, or allows you to stick with the way you were awesome on offense. I really don't think the read option plays are as dangerous as everyone thinks, they actually give you tons of room to work and protect yourself. As long as you do it right, and I think RW and RG3 can be trusted to do it right, and I think we'll continue to see it. It's no 'wildcat'.

Anyway, I think changes to the field are indeed going to happen, they just have to wait till winter's over.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:16 pm 
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Well deserved for Griffin. Congrats to him.

Wilson definitely looked like the best of the rookie QBs in the second half of the season, but Griffin was consistently good the entire year. Got to give him credit for that. Can't fault the voters for this decision (if you want to point to anyone, Carroll is probably the right person to blame for Wilson not winning it... kept the reins too tight for too long).

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:44 pm 
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I'm not OK with it. While RG3 is talented and everything, the bottom line is Wilson was overall better than either Luck or RG3. He singlehandedly brought the Hawks back in ATL, won a road playoff game and played every snap of football when he wasn't blowing the other team out. There are those that said the others did it with less, but he did it regardless. No preseason hype, no big Gatorade commercials and he made the Bears defense look silly in Chicago, then followed it up by making the Niners look like toast.

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:46 pm 
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But I did think that RG3 would win anyways

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:52 pm 
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Well I think it's B.S. that the voting was that one-sided to RG3 over Wilson. But I would rather RG3 win it than Luck if Wilson isn't going to win it....

Also, at least Wilson won the Pepsi award.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:08 am 
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Rat wrote:
After this season long debate, it Luck not winning it almost feels like a Russell victory.


Maybe not a victory for Wilson, but a victory for brain cells. I would have been 10x more upset had Luck won over the intellectually bankrupt 9 win swing argument.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:14 am 
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drdiags wrote:
I thought Schneider was robbed.


Yeah, that's the one I can't figure. Maybe coach of the year should be voted on by coaches and exec of the year should be voted on by GMs. Because I'm pretty sure Schneider would have won pretty easily if voted on by his peers. Three months from now, teams are going to be following Schneider's every move, not Grigson's. Hell, if you look closely you can already see the Schneider copy-catting.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:29 am 
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DirtSkins wrote:
RG3 had 7 rookie of the weeks, 2 rookie of the months, 2 NFC player of the weeks, had a "perfect game" (59th in history, and youngest player to do so), and made the pro bowl.

Russel had 1 rookie of the week, 1 rookie of the month, 1 NFC player of the week, and made the pro bowl.


Classy post and all, but I think people who cite the Rookie of the week thing as if to show that Wilson didn't deserve the award miss the point. Wilson lost rookie of the week over and over all season long despite putting up the best passer rating during that week. If you look at the top passer rating performances of the season by rookies the top of the list is dominated by Wilson. There were many times were Wilson was clearly superior that week and still lost the award. Wilson posted a 100+ passer rating 9 times and won the award just once. Luck posted passer ratings over 100 twice and won the award 3 times. Kirk Cousins had as many rookie of the week awards as Wilson did. Yeah... see what we are dealing with here?

It's pretty obvious that East Coast bias played a factor, with Redskins players winning the award each of the last 7 weeks while Seattle was on a similar win streak with sensational performances from Wilson. Wilson's upset over Chicago was one of the most incredible rookie performances ever, and he didn't even win that week. Around the same time, he had a record setting 16 straight completions in a game (126 overall rating). Didn't win it. He scored 150 points over 3 weeks including a 42-13 dismantling of an elite 49ers team. Didn't win it any of those weeks. Wilson demolished arguably the best defense in the NFL but lost that week to RGIII, who managed a passer rating 13 points lower against a terrible Eagles team.

Long story short, if the rookie of the week was decided empirically, you would have had vastly different results.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:44 am 
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kearly wrote:
drdiags wrote:
I thought Schneider was robbed.


Yeah, that's the one I can't figure. Maybe coach of the year should be voted on by coaches and exec of the year should be voted on by GMs. Because I'm pretty sure Schneider would have won pretty easily if voted on by his peers. Three months from now, teams are going to be following Schneider's every move, not Grigson's. Hell, if you look closely you can already see the Schneider copy-catting.



The problem is that for EOTY, it was voted on by GMs and Coaches, not writers, fans or players which made it even worse. At lease according to this article on nfl.com

NFL link

Quote:
Colts general manager Ryan Grigson edged Denver Broncos VP of football operations John Elway by one vote to take home the NFL's executive of the year award in a Sporting News poll of league execs. Seattle Seahawks general manager John Schneider finished third, followed by Washington Redskins general manager Bruce Allen and Houston Texans general manager Rick Smith.


Here is the Sport News article

Quote:
ABOUT THE AWARDS

Sporting News polled more than 800 NFL players, coaches and executives for our 2012 awards. Everyone voted for offensive and defensive player of the year, rookie of the year and comeback player of the year. Only coaches and executives voted for coach of the year, coordinator of the year, executive of the year and SN’s All-Pro team.


EDIT: Guess I cannot blame the media for Carroll's placing. So at least this old dog learned a new trick.

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:13 am 
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DavidSeven wrote:
BASF wrote:
Griffin had better numbers except for less TD's thrown in less time played due to injury.


The difference between the two's numbers was marginal at best, and Wilson played in a much tougher division. Griffin was also fortunate enough to play within a stat-padding offensive system that was also a mirror image of what he ran at Baylor. The numbers alone don't really tell you anything where they're that close.

Also, Griffin threw for six less TDs than Wilson. He wouldn't have made that up by playing one extra game.


Threw for six less touchdowns yes, however he had only 3 less total touchdowns which he could have easily made up in that game plus quarter and a half of football (Wilson had more overtime attempts as well).

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:39 am 
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BASF wrote:
DavidSeven wrote:
BASF wrote:
Griffin had better numbers except for less TD's thrown in less time played due to injury.


The difference between the two's numbers was marginal at best, and Wilson played in a much tougher division. Griffin was also fortunate enough to play within a stat-padding offensive system that was also a mirror image of what he ran at Baylor. The numbers alone don't really tell you anything where they're that close.

Also, Griffin threw for six less TDs than Wilson. He wouldn't have made that up by playing one extra game.


Threw for six less touchdowns yes, however he had only 3 less total touchdowns which he could have easily made up in that game plus quarter and a half of football (Wilson had more overtime attempts as well).


RGIII was allowed to to play in a system that suited him from game one...Wilson had shackles on for half of the season. Not to mention RGIII had roughly 3X the pre-season snaps Wilson had. Depsite all of that, Wilson still had more more TD's and nearly the same passing yardage. R U sporting an RGIII red-colored thong?? You got me worried.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:23 pm 
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DirtSkins wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
As I've said before, half of RG3's passes were screens and shovels to the RB, it's BS that he won by such a large margin; and Luck getting 1 more vote than Wilson? Yeah, ok. Douches.


I agree Wilson should have been closer, but come on man, the thing about dumpoff passes has been squashed. He lead the league in completion % on passes 20+ yards, and actually averaged slightly more yards per pass all year than Russel.

If anything you would say he benefited from a great running game, but of course, so did Russel.


Griffin never really struggled this year, he had a few bad games but he didn't have a funk like Russell did to start or like Luck did all year. Impressive, should have went Griffin, Wilson, Luck IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:27 pm 
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loafoftatupu wrote:
I'm not OK with it. While RG3 is talented and everything, the bottom line is Wilson was overall better than either Luck or RG3. He singlehandedly brought the Hawks back in ATL, won a road playoff game and played every snap of football when he wasn't blowing the other team out. There are those that said the others did it with less, but he did it regardless. No preseason hype, no big Gatorade commercials and he made the Bears defense look silly in Chicago, then followed it up by making the Niners look like toast.


A lot of the reasons you say RW deserved it happened AFTER the voting occured. At the time of the voting it's pretty clear it could have gone either way.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:30 pm 
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RGIII was allowed to to play in a system that suited him from game one...Wilson had shackles on for half of the season.



And you expect Rg3 to be punished by the voters for that? Someone said it best RW3 having the shackles was bad but maybe that was for the better? He had some rough games to start the light bulb came on but not right away.


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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:33 pm 
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HawKnPeppa wrote:
R U sporting an RGIII red-colored thong?? You got me worried.


I am simply giving credit to an opposing player. It does happen from time to time. I have not said that Wilson was not deserving of the Rookie of the year, but Griffin was more deserving. It happens. It's a lot like Warner is '83. He had a spectacular rookie season, but Dickerson's was better. There is nothing wrong with believing that Griffin had a better season that Wilson did.

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 Post subject: Re: RGIII is (Officially) Offensive Rookie of the Year
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:35 pm 
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Axx wrote:


I like when talkin about the neeners game how he takes the time to say "...when we played em and we beat em"
that was great :179417:

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