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 Post subject: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:43 am 
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The headline on ESPN.com's NFL page reads "Mel Kiper re-grades the 2012 draft and admits he was wrong about Seattle", but it's an Insider column. Can anyone sum up his comments? Was "I'm an ignorant tool" one of them?


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:46 am 
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Without looking at it, I can say it probably was, but only as part of the sentence. The whole sentence would read: "You're going to have to fork over some cold, hard cash if you're going to find out whether I say I'm an ignorant tool."

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:53 am 
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Can't stand that hot airbag, but good on him for manning up.

He changed his original post-draft grade (C-) to an A. Gives credit to Schneider and Carroll. Kind of gets wish washy by saying "let's be clear: I think the Seahawks drafted guys they really wanted, and with a plan in mind for how to use them." No kidding Mel, you mean front offices don't just follow who you think they should draft? You don't say!

He's all over Wilson's jock, of course. Tried to explain his hesitation with the pick of Wilson by saying we already had Flynn, which doesn't mean jack sh*t since you should be assessing the draft picks exclusively and not where they fit on a roster. Says if Wilson was 6'2", he would have been a top-5 pick.

Waffles on why he doubted Wagner ... still questions Irvin (which is fair). Doesn't believe he will be an every down DE, but of course that's not why we drafted him.

Calls the draft (now) "exceptional" and a "defining one for the franchise based on Wilson alone."

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:59 am 
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FlyingGreg wrote:

"let's be clear: I think the Seahawks drafted guys they really wanted, and with a plan in mind for how to use them."


LOL - We really should look into using Kiper's Big Board instead. Will save us money and time doing, you know.. research.......


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:00 pm 
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Post-draft grade: C-
Summary: Give John Schneider and Pete Carroll all the credit in the world. I had major questions on value and even need with some of their picks, and in most cases, the Seahawks proved me wrong. At the time I wrote, "Let's be clear: I think the Seahawks drafted guys they really wanted, and with a plan in mind for how to use them." Did they ever. Russell Wilson might be the defining pick of the draft, already a star and a guy Seattle got at No. 75 overall. I really liked Wilson as a prospect, and said on the set I thought he'd be "a great test case" for short quarterbacks. My question of the pick also had to do with the fact that Seattle had acquired Matt Flynn. If Wilson had been 6-foot-2, I think he would have been a top-5 pick -- said it then, say it now. Is that evaluation still reasonable? Has Wilson proven that short QBs can't all be lumped together? Ultimately, evaluators will still have questions about whether short QBs can succeed because they simply have so few of them to evaluate. The sample size for guys at Wilson's size who've succeeded as he has is so small that not only is Wilson almost unique, I don't see a QB like him coming along for years. But there's no way around the fact that he was a great pick, perhaps the best of the draft when you consider where he was taken.

I also had questions about the value of Bobby Wagner at No. 47 overall, but he was a home run, an impact starter and a guy who will be a fixture for years to come. Robert Turbin, Jeremy Lane and Greg Scruggs also look like great picks. The one pick I really questioned then and still feel the same way about is Bruce Irvin at No. 15 overall. There's no question Irvin can rush the passer, but that's really all he can do, and I still don't see him as a good value at that spot because he's so one-dimensional. I wrote then, "I wouldn't be surprised if Irvin gets 10 sacks in 2012, but that's really his game. He's not a three-down player yet." He still isn't, and is a total liability against the run, as we saw against Atlanta in the playoffs. He finished with 8.0 sacks, but has plenty of development left if he wants to become more than a situational player. I think you want more of a complete player at that point in the draft. Still, this was an exceptional draft, a very good one in terms of immediate value and likely a defining one for the franchise based on Wilson alone.

New grade: A


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:01 pm 
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mel kiper is obviously just quentin tarantino with glasses on trolling everybody.


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Beer Hawk wrote:
FlyingGreg wrote:

"let's be clear: I think the Seahawks drafted guys they really wanted, and with a plan in mind for how to use them."


LOL - We really should look into using Kiper's Big Board instead. Will save us money and time doing, you know.. research.......


In fairness, he is used to the Jets drafting guys for their story lines and crowd appeal, with piss all in mind for how to use them.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:22 pm 
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It will be great to see if Gruden, or how many times Chucky, reminds Kiper of what he said on nation tv last year.
Here's to Gruden rippin Kipper a new one at this years draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:31 pm 
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hawkpride wrote:
It will be great to see if Gruden, or how many times Chucky, reminds Kiper of what he said on nation tv last year.
Here's to Gruden rippin Kipper a new one at this years draft.


Good call, that could provide for some really good comedy.

I almost think Chucky too it personally when guys ripped on Wilson's draft stock for his height.


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:33 pm 
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Good to see Mel change his tune a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:35 pm 
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Were there any teams that people initially thought had an amazing draft, only to realize they blew it?


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Mel Kiper takes far too much heat for what he said on draft day. Bill Polian's comments about Wilson were much worse (particularly with Gruden turning to him for a bit of support).


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Missing_Clink wrote:
Were there any teams that people initially thought had an amazing draft, only to realize they blew it?


he graded SF as a C+ initially. Gave them an incomplete this time.

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The Niners didn't see early impact, but given where the team is, we can't say this won't be an impactful draft. Consider it an "incomplete" with the highest compliments.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:51 pm 
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Much like Daytomann's post in the Shack, I give him absolutely zero credit for admitting the obvious.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:51 pm 
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Seahawk Sailor wrote:
Without looking at it, I can say it probably was, but only as part of the sentence. The whole sentence would read: "You're going to have to fork over some cold, hard cash if you're going to find out whether I say I'm an ignorant tool."



Awesome (for lack of better cliches) post! Why the hell people want to listen, watch or read what he says is beyond me. I
get it. He was in the right place at the right time and I'll give him that. By right place at the right time, I mean he was doing the whole mock draft player evaluations before it became what it is today and I have to give him credit for it. But cmon mang!! Anymore you can go anywhere and get this type of information without the big haired ego.He whiffs more often than he hits.


I like English's assestments as well as any (disagree a little on #15 though).


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:01 pm 
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After having watched the youtube video draft-day exchange between Kiper and Gruden just a couple of weeks ago, I'm totally okay with Kiper's comments from his re-grading of the Hawks draft.

They seem accurate and fair to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:31 pm 
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There was a guy on twitter really going after the Seahawks draft back when it happened. Saying they were the worst drafting team in the NFL.

Recently I wanted to rub his face in his ignorance. But he blocked me. :lol:

So good for Kiper for eating a little crow and acknowledging his mistakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:45 pm 
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CrimsonWazzu wrote:
hawkpride wrote:
It will be great to see if Gruden, or how many times Chucky, reminds Kiper of what he said on nation tv last year.
Here's to Gruden rippin Kipper a new one at this years draft.


Good call, that could provide for some really good comedy.

I almost think Chucky too it personally when guys ripped on Wilson's draft stock for his height.

I'd say it was extremely personal for Gruden. He accused Kiper of discriminating against shorter guys, "guys like me," as he said.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:53 pm 
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Well, here's to hoping Kiper hates our draft again this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:08 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:09 pm 
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SoulfishHawk wrote:
Well, here's to hoping Kiper hates our draft again this year.

:13:

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:59 pm 
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If our upcoming draft is anywhere near as good as our previous one, we'll literally be bursting at the ears with talent.

Our practice squad would be comprised of potential starters on a team like the Jets or Browns lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Mel Kiper reminds me of a weatherman's prediction 30 years ago. Right about 30% of the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:11 pm 
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Chawker wrote:
Mel Kiper reminds me of a weatherman's prediction 30 years ago. Right about 30% of the time.


Wait, are you trying to say that weather predictions are more accurate now than they were 30 years ago? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:19 pm 
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From the article

" The one pick I really questioned then and still feel the same way about is Bruce Irvin at No. 15 overall"

Did ANYONE else watch the draft and think that the ONE pick he really questioned was the Bruce Irvin pick? I really had this nagging feeling that he also QUESTIONED... the RW pick.

Just saying I don't see him admitting to anything at all. He is now focusing on how he said RW was a testcase. That wasn't his focus at the time that was his escape route slid in there among all the "this isn't going to work talk"


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:29 pm 
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Gruden refuses to be critical of anyone. His Captain Sunshine act makes MNF almost unbearable sometimes. I don't give him any credit for taking the safe route every time.


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:31 pm 
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Why would somebody want to grade the draft immedietly after the draft..makes no sense. It should wait until after the season. You dont grade a test until the test has been taken..dimwits


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:50 pm 
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BGHawk wrote:
Why would somebody want to grade the draft immedietly after the draft..makes no sense. It should wait until after the season. You dont grade a test until the test has been taken..dimwits

Entertainment purposes. Predictions are interesting, just like when we all predict the Seahawks record at the beginning of the season.


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:01 pm 
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Rat wrote:
Gruden refuses to be critical of anyone. His Captain Sunshine act makes MNF almost unbearable sometimes. I don't give him any credit for taking the safe route every time.

So you're saying he took "the safe route" with his support of Wilson? I 'd say the odds were against him. He was about the only guy in RW's corner. Maybe you really meant he chose to be optimistic and that grates on you somehow?We are talking about Gruden as it relates to Russell Wilson -something he put a lot of homework into. We are not talking about Gruden as a MNF announcer.


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:04 pm 
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HawKnPeppa wrote:
Rat wrote:
Gruden refuses to be critical of anyone. His Captain Sunshine act makes MNF almost unbearable sometimes. I don't give him any credit for taking the safe route every time.

So you're saying he took "the safe route" with his support of Wilson? I 'd say the odds were against him. He was about the only guy in RW's corner. Maybe you really meant he chose to be optimistic and that grates on you somehow?We are talking about Gruden as it relates to Russell Wilson -something he put a lot of homework into. We are not talking about Gruden as a MNF announcer.

By "safe route", I'm referring to how he gushes about everyone. You take a lot more heat when you're critical and are wrong than vice versa. He makes sure to get no enemies. Probably does that in case he decides to go back into coaching.


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Gruden does keep things mostly positive on his FFCA segments talking to QB prospects, but he GUSHED about Wilson. Then at the end of the segment he looked into the camera and had a speech saying how he thought Wilson was the steal of the draft. I had never seen anything like it from Gruden before. Then you had the draft weekend theatrics where his father-like defensiveness for Wilson was palpable.


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:19 pm 
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And of course, Aaron Curry was the "safest pick in the draft"
One of the all time worst calls by an "expert" :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:21 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Sarlacc83 wrote:
Much like Daytomann's post in the Shack, I give him absolutely zero credit for admitting the obvious.

Its like saying I knew the Ravens would win the super bowl after he picked SF. His grades arent reliable so I`ll listen to someone else.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:55 am 
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BGHawk wrote:
Why would somebody want to grade the draft immedietly after the draft..makes no sense. It should wait until after the season. You dont grade a test until the test has been taken..dimwits


I would like to see Draft Grades, or Drafts re-done after 3 seasons. That would really give perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:17 am 
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SoulfishHawk wrote:
And of course, Aaron Curry was the "safest pick in the draft"
One of the all time worst calls by an "expert" :shock:



To be fair, everyone was wrong about Curry.

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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:27 am 
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McGruff wrote:
SoulfishHawk wrote:
And of course, Aaron Curry was the "safest pick in the draft"
One of the all time worst calls by an "expert" :shock:



To be fair, everyone was wrong about Curry.



No kidding; I spend $$$ on an authentic jersey for that clown!


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:57 am 
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This isn't science - they are right on some, wrong on some and guess what so are 32 GM's, Head-coaches and owners.... There are undrafted players making an impact the very same season and there are first round players that are bust.

So Kiper didn't like RW well we got him in the 3rd round - clearly he wasn't alone in this thinking.......


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 Post subject: Re: Mel Kiper re-grades 2012 draft
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:20 am 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
Chawker wrote:
Mel Kiper reminds me of a weatherman's prediction 30 years ago. Right about 30% of the time.


Wait, are you trying to say that weather predictions are more accurate now than they were 30 years ago? :)


They are substantially more accurate, but you may be thrown off by your TV and radio sensationalism (they tend to exaggerate for excitement). I suggest using NOAA's web site.


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