to trade up, or to not trade up?

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to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:07 pm
  • to get a top notch Pass rusher?
    When you have 10 draft picks, i trust Pete and Schneider to find some gems in the 4th and 5th round but they are absolute money in the top 2 draft rounds getting players like Earl, Okung, Bobby Wager, and Carpenter (if he can stay healthy). Im still not quiet sold on Irvin though.

    Or would you like to see some 6th and 7th rounders being traded up for some 3rd -5th rounders where they have had alot of success also.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:19 pm
  • Who do you think is worthy of trading up for? It's silly to say "trade up" if there isn't a TOP END pass rusher. Remember Seattle in this last drafted traded down to 15 and then had the pick of the litter for pass rushers. There were only 2 DE's taken in the top 20 picks last year. It sounds like from JS's comments that this draft may have depth, but not a TOP END talent. If there is than I'd be open to moving so long as your not jeapordizing your 2nd/3rd round picks.

    I think the much more plausible situation is that with those 10 picks we move up in the 2nd-4th rounds to get guys we really covet and utilyzing the abundance of late draft picks in that fashion. I would be kind of shocked if we used alot of draft capital to make an aggressive move up the board in the 1st round.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:22 pm
  • If there is somebody worth trading up for (and a partner who's willing to deal their pick) then of course trade up. I don't necessarily think JS avoids trading up like it's the bubonic plague or anything, but I also don't think he's seen anything further up the draft board of more value that the pics he already has (and the guys he's targeted to use them on).

    JS seems to prefer taking something of a shotgun approach to finding talent in the later rounds as opposed to putting all his eggs into one basket in the early ones. The former got us Kam, Sherm, Bobby Turbo and some short guy named Wilson. The latter got us Kelly Jennings and Aaron Curry. I'll trust Mr. Schneider to make the correct assessment of the situation.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:23 pm
  • jlwaters1 wrote:Who do you think is worthy of trading up for? It's silly to say "trade up" if there isn't a TOP END pass rusher. Remember Seattle in this last drafted traded down to 15 and then had the pick of the litter for pass rushers. There were only 2 DE's taken in the top 20 picks last year. It sounds like from JS's comments that this draft may have depth, but not a TOP END talent. If there is than I'd be open to moving so long as your not jeapordizing your 2nd/3rd round picks.

    I think the much more plausible situation is that with those 10 picks we move up in the 2nd-4th rounds to get guys we really covet and utilyzing the abundance of late draft picks in that fashion. I would be kind of shocked if we used alot of draft capital to make an aggressive move up the board in the 1st round.


    Margus Hunt, That is all.

    he is most likely a top 20 draft pick.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:32 pm
  • Axx wrote:
    jlwaters1 wrote:Who do you think is worthy of trading up for? It's silly to say "trade up" if there isn't a TOP END pass rusher. Remember Seattle in this last drafted traded down to 15 and then had the pick of the litter for pass rushers. There were only 2 DE's taken in the top 20 picks last year. It sounds like from JS's comments that this draft may have depth, but not a TOP END talent. If there is than I'd be open to moving so long as your not jeapordizing your 2nd/3rd round picks.

    I think the much more plausible situation is that with those 10 picks we move up in the 2nd-4th rounds to get guys we really covet and utilyzing the abundance of late draft picks in that fashion. I would be kind of shocked if we used alot of draft capital to make an aggressive move up the board in the 1st round.


    Margus Hunt, That is all.

    he is most likely a top 20 draft pick.


    I can't see us leaping too far up the board for someone known to be that inconsistent, but dude is a certified athletic freak from what I hear. If he's still lingering around within 2 or 3 spots of us, I could imagine us making a small move. Depends on whether or not he could play on the inside at 3-tech or not. Maybe a trade up with Minny could involve Flynn since they're a couple spots ahead of us and desperate for a QB (at least they should be cuz Ponder sucks arse).

    We want pass rushers and dude can certainly do that...
    Last edited by CANHawk on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:33 pm
  • Axx wrote:
    jlwaters1 wrote:Who do you think is worthy of trading up for? It's silly to say "trade up" if there isn't a TOP END pass rusher. Remember Seattle in this last drafted traded down to 15 and then had the pick of the litter for pass rushers. There were only 2 DE's taken in the top 20 picks last year. It sounds like from JS's comments that this draft may have depth, but not a TOP END talent. If there is than I'd be open to moving so long as your not jeapordizing your 2nd/3rd round picks.

    I think the much more plausible situation is that with those 10 picks we move up in the 2nd-4th rounds to get guys we really covet and utilyzing the abundance of late draft picks in that fashion. I would be kind of shocked if we used alot of draft capital to make an aggressive move up the board in the 1st round.


    Margus Hunt, That is all.

    he is most likely a top 20 draft pick.


    I'd be furious if JS traded up to grab Margus Hunt. Furious.

    The only pass rushing DE in the draft worth trading up for is Werner, and even then we don't have the ammo to trade up that high.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:37 pm
  • [/quote]

    I'd be furious if JS traded up to grab Margus Hunt. Furious.

    The only pass rushing DE in the draft worth trading up for is Werner, and even then we don't have the ammo to trade up that high.[/quote]

    you and everyone dont to draft him, therefor Schnieder will draft him.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:39 pm
  • jlwaters1 wrote:Who do you think is worthy of trading up for?


    2013 is a great year for D-Line. Most mock drafts have quite a few really good DE's and DT's going in the first couple rounds.

    Star Lotuleui, Bjoern Werner, Barkevious Lingo, Damontre Moore, Sheldon Richardson, Johnathan Hankins, Dion Jordan, Jesse Williams, Ezekiel Ansah, John Jenkins, etc.

    Right now most mock drafts have us taking a DE or DT, but a couple have us taking Robert Woods from USC.......which would be just fine with me too.

    Either way with the number of picks the Hawks have, I have no doubt Pete and John are going to work their magic to at least solidify one of these positions, or maybe even all three (DT, DE and WR).
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:15 pm
  • I think most teams will actually want to trade down. It's a deep class and the elite (top 10 ) talent isn't overwhelming.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:33 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    jlwaters1 wrote:Who do you think is worthy of trading up for?


    2013 is a great year for D-Line. Most mock drafts have quite a few really good DE's and DT's going in the first couple rounds.

    Star Lotuleui, Bjoern Werner, Barkevious Lingo, Damontre Moore, Sheldon Richardson, Johnathan Hankins, Dion Jordan, Jesse Williams, Ezekiel Ansah, John Jenkins, etc.

    Right now most mock drafts have us taking a DE or DT, but a couple have us taking Robert Woods from USC.......which would be just fine with me too.

    Either way with the number of picks the Hawks have, I have no doubt Pete and John are going to work their magic to at least solidify one of these positions, or maybe even all three (DT, DE and WR).


    Just because a lot of guys are slotted to go in the first round doesn't make it a "great draft". If you look back in draft history typically DLine is a position that is valued and you see a lot of them go in the first.

    WHY? Well....its difficult to find guys with that type of size and speed required to play that position. Great DLine guys are what everyone needs.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:39 pm
  • A lot of analysts seem to favor the idea that the Seahawks will pick up Ezekiel Ansah with their first round pick...which I'm a bit wary of. Sure he's a physical specimen, but his lack of experience, polished technique, and football savvy really scares me. I don't want another Aaron Curry situation where we draft a player with all the physical traits of a good football player but no football smarts, passion, or technique.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:46 pm
  • It sounds like it's a pretty deep year for WR and we're looking pretty solid at WR right now. I really don't see us going WR in the first round this year. There's likely to be value to be had at WR later in the draft, but the talent for D-line is all going to be up front. There'll probably be nothing but scrubs left after the first round for D-linemen. If we're going to address D-line in the draft, we'll have to address it early (unless they've earmarked a few diamonds in the rough hiding below the radar).
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:47 pm
  • T-Sizzle wrote:
    Just because a lot of guys are slotted to go in the first round doesn't make it a "great draft". If you look back in draft history typically DLine is a position that is valued and you see a lot of them go in the first.


    A lot of D Lineman slotted in the first round means this draft class is deep for D Line. That is VERY good news for a team like us that needs both DE's and DT's.

    Of course we don't know if this class is "great".........only time will tell on that. But as opposed to other classes where teams had to trade to maybe get a decent DT or DE, this class is deep so that we wouldn't HAVE to give up too many picks (or none at all) if we found a guy we really like. Because again, deep = less urgency because there's less to choose from.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:09 pm
  • Draft subjects moved to the draft day forum
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:20 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    jlwaters1 wrote:Who do you think is worthy of trading up for?


    2013 is a great year for D-Line. Most mock drafts have quite a few really good DE's and DT's going in the first couple rounds.

    Star Lotuleui, Bjoern Werner, Barkevious Lingo, Damontre Moore, Sheldon Richardson, Johnathan Hankins, Dion Jordan, Jesse Williams, Ezekiel Ansah, John Jenkins, etc.

    Right now most mock drafts have us taking a DE or DT, but a couple have us taking Robert Woods from USC.......which would be just fine with me too.

    Either way with the number of picks the Hawks have, I have no doubt Pete and John are going to work their magic to at least solidify one of these positions, or maybe even all three (DT, DE and WR).


    I agree. I think we'll address pass rush in our first 3 picks and most likely later in the draft as well. i'd be perfectly fine if we go WR in round 1 too. Alot of good options @ 25. I could totally see us move up 3-5 spots, but I doubt it would be anything beyond that. I think JS covets the picks too much. He's got a good way of finding value all throughout the draft. It still amazes me that 2 7th rounders last year became significant contributors. Under Ruskell, there was little hope of the 5th-7th rounders doing much on the team. However, under PC and JS we've got tremendous production out of those late picks.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:30 pm
  • jlwaters1 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    jlwaters1 wrote:Who do you think is worthy of trading up for?


    2013 is a great year for D-Line. Most mock drafts have quite a few really good DE's and DT's going in the first couple rounds.

    Star Lotuleui, Bjoern Werner, Barkevious Lingo, Damontre Moore, Sheldon Richardson, Johnathan Hankins, Dion Jordan, Jesse Williams, Ezekiel Ansah, John Jenkins, etc.

    Right now most mock drafts have us taking a DE or DT, but a couple have us taking Robert Woods from USC.......which would be just fine with me too.

    Either way with the number of picks the Hawks have, I have no doubt Pete and John are going to work their magic to at least solidify one of these positions, or maybe even all three (DT, DE and WR).


    I agree. I think we'll address pass rush in our first 3 picks and most likely later in the draft as well. i'd be perfectly fine if we go WR in round 1 too. Alot of good options @ 25. I could totally see us move up 3-5 spots, but I doubt it would be anything beyond that. I think JS covets the picks too much. He's got a good way of finding value all throughout the draft. It still amazes me that 2 7th rounders last year became significant contributors. Under Ruskell, there was little hope of the 5th-7th rounders doing much on the team. However, under PC and JS we've got tremendous production out of those late picks.


    Well, not that I have ANY intent here of trying to defend Timmmmay, but... I think Holmgren might have had a lot to do with that too. Holmy liked his veterans and I doubt any 6th round fringe player even got the opportunity to prove he could be part of the team.

    But, Tim did pick them, so they probably sucked anyway.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:31 pm
  • Axx wrote:to get a top notch Pass rusher?


    If Richardson or Werner slide, I'd certainly hope so.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:32 pm
  • I would consider trading up for Richardson or Ansah, but after that . . . Not worthit.

    Even then, I'm almost liking Short as much as Richardson.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:36 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    T-Sizzle wrote:
    Just because a lot of guys are slotted to go in the first round doesn't make it a "great draft". If you look back in draft history typically DLine is a position that is valued and you see a lot of them go in the first.


    A lot of D Lineman slotted in the first round means this draft class is deep for D Line. That is VERY good news for a team like us that needs both DE's and DT's.

    Of course we don't know if this class is "great".........only time will tell on that. But as opposed to other classes where teams had to trade to maybe get a decent DT or DE, this class is deep so that we wouldn't HAVE to give up too many picks (or none at all) if we found a guy we really like. Because again, deep = less urgency because there's less to choose from.


    Since 2001, 7 (actually 7.3, so I rounded down) Dline guys have been drafted on average in the first round. I see 6-9 slotted in mock drafts (depending on where you look), and what you actually consider a Dline pick. Guess I don't feel like its a great draft based on the history of DLine picks in the first round. Those are the facts....if you want to disagree I would love to hear it.

    In 2003 10 Dline guys were selected:
    1 4 Dewayne Robertson DT Kentucky New York Jets
    1 6 Johnathan Sullivan DT Georgia New Orleans Saints
    1 9 Kevin Williams DE Oklahoma State Minnesota Vikings
    1 12 Jimmy Kennedy DT Penn State St. Louis Rams
    1 13 Ty Warren DE Texas A&M New England Patriots
    1 14 Michael Haynes DE Penn State Chicago Bears
    1 15 Jerome McDougle DE Miami (Fla.) Philadelphia Eagles
    1 18 Calvin Pace DE Wake Forest Arizona Cardinals
    1 25 William Joseph DT Miami (Fla.) New York Giants
    1 32 Tyler Brayton DE Colorado Oakland Raiders

    Was that a great draft for the Dline?
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:18 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    T-Sizzle wrote:
    Just because a lot of guys are slotted to go in the first round doesn't make it a "great draft". If you look back in draft history typically DLine is a position that is valued and you see a lot of them go in the first.


    A lot of D Lineman slotted in the first round means this draft class is deep for D Line. That is VERY good news for a team like us that needs both DE's and DT's.

    Of course we don't know if this class is "great".........only time will tell on that. But as opposed to other classes where teams had to trade to maybe get a decent DT or DE, this class is deep so that we wouldn't HAVE to give up too many picks (or none at all) if we found a guy we really like. Because again, deep = less urgency because there's less to choose from.


    While I like a couple players in the 1st, the bolded is completely untrue. This draft class, overall is very weak. Yes, many D-Linemen are projected for the first round, but that's more of a jab at the overall talent of this class than a compliment to those players. I bet if you merged this draft class with players who are eligible for next year's draft, I'd say a conservative estimate @ 70% of the 1st round would be comprised of 2014 players.

    Seattle's needs are very specific for most positions of need we have this year;

    Defensive Tackle: We need someone who is well-rounded, but explosive and can consistently disrupt the quarterback. Richardson is the only player in the 1st who fits that bill IMO, and the guy isn't very bright. I do like the idea of Kawann Short in the 2nd or even early 3rd if he's available at that point and we can trade up. Short doesn't have the same pass rushing skill as Richardson, however, he's very talented and has decent speed for a man his size. I have the feeling he may be a Mebane type impact when comparing draft position and his impact on the field. A quiet performer who I'd love to have on this team.

    Defensive End: Bjoern Werner is my favorite End prospect this year followed by Moore, however, they will be top 10 picks most likely due to no real elite prospects at the position being available. I wouldn't trade up for Moore into the top 5 where he is projected to go, but if Werner fell to the late teens, I'd consider it for the right price. A few options are available in free agency, and I would rather target this position through FA than use a pick on someone who probably doesn't deserve to be selected where we would have to take them.

    Outside Linebacker: I'm assuming we would be targeting someone who has some wheels, isn't a liability in coverage and can put a quarterback on their ass if called upon to do so. This is another spot that is weak @ the top of the draft. Some solid late 2nd - 4th rounders out there. I wouldn't mind using a 3rd or 4th on someone here as there is nothing really available in free agency this year.

    Offensive Guard: Chance Warmack is MAN. He is going to be selected high in the 1st though. I would absolutely love having him next to Okung & Unger. Jonathan Cooper is very talented as well, but he too may very well be selected in the 1st and I don't think we need to spend another 1st round pick on a guard. I'd actually like to target Andy Levitre in Free Agency.

    Offensive Tackle (Competition): Giacomini improved over the last half of the season, but I am a firm believer in upgrading if the opportunity arises. I see this as a potential 4th or 5th round position to target as I think there are some solid players who could be had in that range. I also think this could be looked at in free agency. Having people battle it out for the starting role at a position is nice to watch and making a player earn that spot, I believe, brings out the most from them going forward.

    Wide Receiver: This position is really pissing me off this year. There are no clear cut #1's in the draft and I am not too fond of any of the free agents either. Sidney Rice has done well for us, and while we don't NEED a Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald, we DO need someone who must be accounted for on every play. Why can't there be a receiver this year who is 6'3" or taller, exceptional speed for their size, consistent hands and at least above average route running? There are a few receivers I still like in this draft, however, no one I feel is worth our 1st. Hope we can trade out of the 1st unless someone slips, pick up a few more picks and then use a couple of our later rounds picks to move up in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th to get who we want. I don't really see any elite talents in this draft, but the 2nd-4th rounds should be able to produce a lot of solid players with potential.

    Tight End: Zach Miller is a stud, but I can't stand Anthony McCoy. Ideally, I would love to have Jared Cook to pair with Miller and then if someone like Gavin Escobar fell to the middle rounds, pick him up as well with a pick we acquire from a trade out of the 1st or something. This scenerio would allow us to have a lot of options for Wilson and Cook could even line up at WR to create crazy mismatches.

    Anyway, if we could trade our 1st this year to someone who has a couple 2nd's, I'd be all over that. The 2nd round, I believe, is going to be MUCH more memorable than the 1st.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:51 pm
  • Kawann Short will end up being a late first, early second rounder, and I see a guy who is. Tremendous pass rusher.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:52 pm
  • We HAS to trade up. No way in hell 10 rookies plus however many rookies we sign as FA's make the team. It'd be a waste of a pick IMO. Might as well trade up to get good value for the amont of picks we have. The Hawks gotta trade up to get some bigtime players on the DL and OL. Then draft a WR and a TE.

    In case you ddn't read what I wrote. TRADE UP is a must!
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:18 pm
  • I highly doubt that Hawks are going to trade up.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:58 am
  • Trading up can be costly, especially if you try moving up into the top 10. It would mean putting future picks in play, but you first have to have "that guy" your willing to go after. JS will find good players without losing our future picks (at least not a 1st round pick).
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:37 am
  • Axx wrote:
    jlwaters1 wrote:Who do you think is worthy of trading up for? It's silly to say "trade up" if there isn't a TOP END pass rusher. Remember Seattle in this last drafted traded down to 15 and then had the pick of the litter for pass rushers. There were only 2 DE's taken in the top 20 picks last year. It sounds like from JS's comments that this draft may have depth, but not a TOP END talent. If there is than I'd be open to moving so long as your not jeapordizing your 2nd/3rd round picks.

    I think the much more plausible situation is that with those 10 picks we move up in the 2nd-4th rounds to get guys we really covet and utilyzing the abundance of late draft picks in that fashion. I would be kind of shocked if we used alot of draft capital to make an aggressive move up the board in the 1st round.


    Margus Hunt, That is all.

    he is most likely a top 20 draft pick.



    I doubt (and hope ) Hunt goes higher than the second or third round. The bad teams have needs to fill that only a proven player can fill. Hunt isn't even the best available(Football) athlete. With the emergence of Wilson, Luck and Kaepernick I'm thinking Super fast DBs, DEs with good Pistol experience and LBs that are good run stuffers as that, the run, is what makes the read option work.

    Only a team that has most of it's skill player needs met will take a chance on the Estonian.

    I'm hoping it is the Seahawks in the second or third round. I've been having revampt flashbacks of the Atlanta kick in my mind with a saving hand reaching up like a monster soccor goalie batting the ball to Sherman
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:58 am
  • Damn right there's someone worth trading up for: Sheldon Richardson.
    Will they? Almost certainly not.

    Personally, I would like DeAndre Hopkins, then use 9 picks/free agency to
    secure a 3 tech DT and a DE.
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Re: to trade up, or to not trade up?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:24 pm
  • two dog wrote:Damn right there's someone worth trading up for: Sheldon Richardson.
    Will they? Almost certainly not.

    Personally, I would like DeAndre Hopkins, then use 9 picks/free agency to
    secure a 3 tech DT and a DE.


    Agreed with this, would be awesome to have Richardson but ending up with a stud TE, WR, or LB could be just as good.
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