RichNhansom wrote:Joeshaney, I don't know that we will get a third, I think that is on the high side because there are to many variables surrounding the position?. I did a wright up on page two about some of thr variables. I do believe if we were capable of getting anything for Jackson then trading Flynn should be no problem. I just don't know how much he will actually garner.

I understand your logic and unless some team views him as a starter you are right on.
My feeling, however, is that if all we can get is a late round pick for Flynn he will be staying put. The only purpose for trading away a player like Flynn is to make the team better. If there isn't a trade that makes the team better than there will be no trade occurring.

Therefore, I believe that Flynn will be either in Seattle next year or traded to the Jags for a 3rd round pick and possibly an additional depth player or late round pick.

joeshaney wrote:

RichNhansom wrote:Joeshaney, I don't know that we will get a third, I think that is on the high side because there are to many variables surrounding the position?. I did a wright up on page two about some of thr variables. I do believe if we were capable of getting anything for Jackson then trading Flynn should be no problem. I just don't know how much he will actually garner.

I understand your logic and unless some team views him as a starter you are right on.
My feeling, however, is that if all we can get is a late round pick for Flynn he will be staying put. The only purpose for trading away a player like Flynn is to make the team better. If there isn't a trade that makes the team better than there will be no trade occurring.

Therefore, I believe that Flynn will be either in Seattle next year or traded to the Jags for a 3rd round pick and possibly an additional depth player or late round pick.

Uh, cap space, that makes the team better. Gives us more wiggle room to sign a FA who might actually start for this team and room to extend our young guys who are all going to be looking for a payday in the coming years.

If the best they can get for Flynn is a 6th, I'd be shocked if they passed.

joeshaney wrote:

RichNhansom wrote:Joeshaney, I don't know that we will get a third, I think that is on the high side because there are to many variables surrounding the position?. I did a wright up on page two about some of thr variables. I do believe if we were capable of getting anything for Jackson then trading Flynn should be no problem. I just don't know how much he will actually garner.

I understand your logic and unless some team views him as a starter you are right on.
My feeling, however, is that if all we can get is a late round pick for Flynn he will be staying put. The only purpose for trading away a player like Flynn is to make the team better. If there isn't a trade that makes the team better than there will be no trade occurring.

Therefore, I believe that Flynn will be either in Seattle next year or traded to the Jags for a 3rd round pick and possibly an additional depth player or late round pick.

I have to agree with Pink here. We could use his cap space for a starter and letting Flynn go after a starter position is the right thing to do so if the best case were even a 6th I would think they would grab it and move on.

I would love to have Flynn as our backup if he is willing to be that but I get the feeling he is to competitive to want to stay a backup. I think Flynn views himself as a starter and a disgruntled back up is not a good thing.

I wouldn't mind bringing in someone like Seneca Wallace who would be much less expensive and could run the wild cat. It would be a bonus that he would probably relish being a back up for us also.

volsunghawk wrote:

RichNhansom wrote:Smith is so good that his coach replaced him mid season for a completely unknown. Not a guy with a couple amazing performances. He went with the unknown based off extremely limited information and in the middle of a super bowl run. You seem to have forgotten that or even question why a coach would go with the less experience. It is a reason why I think others will view Smith similarly.

You can call me fan boy but not without acknowledging that your just a hater. I'll take mine if you take yours.

http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/ ... ssion.html

Smith had a concussion and wasn't cleared to play, man. He was out for two weeks, and Kaepernick came in and played really well, giving the 49ers offense an element it didn't have with Smith. Harbaugh chose to stick with the new guy (or the "hot hand" or whatever you want to call it), and he got a lot of flack over it - especially after the subpar performance Kaepernick put on against the Seahawks.

Quit trying to paint it like Smith was being ineffective and just got pulled for Kaepernick.

I know Smith had a concussion and Kaep played well in his first game but right after that first game is when Harbaugh said he would go with the hot hand and Smith was cleared to play the following week. That doesn't change that Harbaugh in the middle of a super bowl run decided to go with the guy who had shown less than Flynn at that point. That should tell you everything you need to know about the views of a 7 year veteran QB even playing his best football still was less enticing than the complete unknown who only had one game under his belt at the time and it wasn't as good as Flynn's best game statistically or by the eyeball test.

Why are you trying to make an argument for the experienced player but ignoring his own coach benched him even when he was playing his best football in favor of the unknown? How do you ignore that there was more known about Flynn than Kaepernick at the same time? There is no way to justify the belief that Flynn hasn't proved anything yet Kaepernick had. Either it is that or Harbaugh didn't believe Smith was a better option than an unknown. Fact is Harbaugh never gave Smith another chance. He chose the unknow with potentail and I think smart GM's will see it that way as well. I honestly don't know how you can ignore it.

pinksheets wrote:

joeshaney wrote:

RichNhansom wrote:Joeshaney, I don't know that we will get a third, I think that is on the high side because there are to many variables surrounding the position?. I did a wright up on page two about some of thr variables. I do believe if we were capable of getting anything for Jackson then trading Flynn should be no problem. I just don't know how much he will actually garner.

I understand your logic and unless some team views him as a starter you are right on.
My feeling, however, is that if all we can get is a late round pick for Flynn he will be staying put. The only purpose for trading away a player like Flynn is to make the team better. If there isn't a trade that makes the team better than there will be no trade occurring.

Therefore, I believe that Flynn will be either in Seattle next year or traded to the Jags for a 3rd round pick and possibly an additional depth player or late round pick.

Uh, cap space, that makes the team better. Gives us more wiggle room to sign a FA who might actually start for this team and room to extend our young guys who are all going to be looking for a payday in the coming years.

If the best they can get for Flynn is a 6th, I'd be shocked if they passed.

Cap space is not an issue for the Seahawks...at all.

joeshaney wrote:Cap space is not an issue for the Seahawks...at all.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Right now Clayton projects them to have $18m in cap space next year. Sounds like a decent amount, right? It is, but they've got to worry about whether or not to bring back Branch or Jason Jones or to look in FA to perhaps address the pass rush. Then we add the rookies. Whatever we have left in cap space after that.....can be carried over into the next year. Our young players will soon be up for new deals and if we want to keep as many of them as we can, we're going to need to save every penny we can and try to rollover as much cap as we can. Saving a few million by moving Flynn would be a big deal.

This isn't about being against the cap next year, it's about planning ahead for the next few years when guys like Kam Chancellor, KJ Wright, Richard Sherman and the other important pieces that are making like $500-$700k a year start looking for a bit more.

RichNhansom wrote:

volsunghawk wrote:

RichNhansom wrote:Smith is so good that his coach replaced him mid season for a completely unknown. Not a guy with a couple amazing performances. He went with the unknown based off extremely limited information and in the middle of a super bowl run. You seem to have forgotten that or even question why a coach would go with the less experience. It is a reason why I think others will view Smith similarly.

You can call me fan boy but not without acknowledging that your just a hater. I'll take mine if you take yours.

http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/ ... ssion.html

Smith had a concussion and wasn't cleared to play, man. He was out for two weeks, and Kaepernick came in and played really well, giving the 49ers offense an element it didn't have with Smith. Harbaugh chose to stick with the new guy (or the "hot hand" or whatever you want to call it), and he got a lot of flack over it - especially after the subpar performance Kaepernick put on against the Seahawks.

Quit trying to paint it like Smith was being ineffective and just got pulled for Kaepernick.

I know Smith had a concussion and Kaep played well in his first game but right after that first game is when Harbaugh said he would go with the hot hand and Smith was cleared to play the following week. That doesn't change that Harbaugh in the middle of a super bowl run decided to go with the guy who had shown less than Flynn at that point. That should tell you everything you need to know about the views of a 7 year veteran QB even playing his best football still was less enticing than the complete unknown who only had one game under his belt at the time and it wasn't as good as Flynn's best game statistically or by the eyeball test.

Why are you trying to make an argument for the experienced player but ignoring his own coach benched him even when he was playing his best football in favor of the unknown? How do you ignore that there was more known about Flynn than Kaepernick at the same time? There is no way to justify the belief that Flynn hasn't proved anything yet Kaepernick had. Either it is that or Harbaugh didn't believe Smith was a better option than an unknown. Fact is Harbaugh never gave Smith another chance. He chose the unknow with potentail and I think smart GM's will see it that way as well. I honestly don't know how you can ignore it.

No, that's not accurate. Harbaugh didn't pick Kaepernick "right after that first game." Smith was injured early in the Rams tie, and Kaepernick played well in the remainder of the game. He also played well in the Chicago and New Orleans games after that, and it wasn't until then that Smith was cleared. Kaepernick was playing just about as well as Smith had, and he was doing so with much less experience. And here's the biggest point... Kaepernick was doing it with the exact same team. Kaepernick didn't put up his two and a half games of evidence with some offensive juggernaut in another division and then come into the 49ers lineup.

So, in the end, what Harbaugh saw was his more athletically gifted backup QB playing as well as his starter, and doing so for a far smaller contract. That made Smith expendable, as long as Kaepernick proved he could continue the very good production he'd been generating. It wasn't about Smith sucking... it was about Kaepernick excelling on the cheap. That should sound familiar to you. Flynn didn't lose out on the Seahawks starting job because he sucked... he lost it because Wilson was better (and it does help that Wilson is cheaper, too).

When it comes to potential trades and teams are faced with the prospect of going for Smith or Flynn, they're not going to be looking at two vastly different QBs as far as talent or ability goes. Both guys seem smart, team-oriented, affable, and capable. Neither of them seem like guys who would inspire their team to follow them to the gates of Hell or anything, but they seem like they could lead without tripping over their own junk at the very least. That said, if the money is similar and the compensation in trade is similar, I guarantee you that most if not all NFL front offices will go with the guy with more experience every time - unless there is a talent gap, age gap, or injury history gap that forces them to do otherwise. And there's no way you will convince me that's the case between Smith and Flynn.

SEATTLE!!

Personally I think Flynn will fetch more than a 4th round pick precisely because his contract is so reasonable.

If you knew you knew you were getting a top notch backup QB what would that be worth?

What is a starting QB worth?

What would a QB be worth that was supposed to be a starter but lost out to...Russell Freaking Wilson...

Is that starting QB still worth more than a backup? I'd think so.

Is that starting QB will worth more than Matt Cassell? I'd think so there too.

In fact, I'd say Matt Flynn will go on to have a better career than Cassell, Schaub, Sanchez, Gabbert, Vince Young, Jake Locker, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kevin Kolb and any mediocre QB you could throw out there. Flynn is a starter. Starters are worth something.

I think the likely best case scenario right now is probably to trade Flynn to a team drafting early and swap picks in the 2nd round. That's pretty much what I'm hoping for.

pinksheets wrote:

joeshaney wrote:Cap space is not an issue for the Seahawks...at all.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Right now Clayton projects them to have $18m in cap space next year. Sounds like a decent amount, right? It is, but they've got to worry about whether or not to bring back Branch or Jason Jones or to look in FA to perhaps address the pass rush. Then we add the rookies. Whatever we have left in cap space after that.....can be carried over into the next year. Our young players will soon be up for new deals and if we want to keep as many of them as we can, we're going to need to save every penny we can and try to rollover as much cap as we can. Saving a few million by moving Flynn would be a big deal.

This isn't about being against the cap next year, it's about planning ahead for the next few years when guys like Kam Chancellor, KJ Wright, Richard Sherman and the other important pieces that are making like $500-$700k a year start looking for a bit more.

I don't think you know what your talking about.....
The Seahawks cap position is among the best in the NFL. You can poster free agency how ever you see fit, but they are still in a very, very good position. Duh, of course we can hope they have plans on making acquisitions. Nonetheless, to assume they will be excited to throw away a quality backup quarterback for a 6th round pick is flat out retarded. Particularly in a year when we already are slated to have 10 picks as is.

To think that the Seahawks front office are at some conflict with there payroll due to Matt Flynn's contract is silly.....

I would also mention that the Arizona Cardinals were approximately 1 point something million dollars OVER the salary cap at the same time they were courting Peyton Manning.

I never said there was some big conflict on payroll. The reason the Seahawks have so much capspace is.....say it with me...rollover! The more we rollover from one year, the more we have the next, which we're going to need in the next couple of years. So saving money by not overpaying a backup quarterback is a sound move when it means you might have a few extra million to play with when it comes to re-signing Chancellor, Sherman, Wright, etc. Flynn is not worth what we pay him for what he brings to the team, at all, it's not a good value and we can better use those resources, period. Finding a team that wants to pay him $7 million next year will be a bit of a challenge, which is why a later round pick might be something we're lucky to secure.

All of you saying we will be lucky to get a 6th for Flynn. As yourself this question honestly - you also said that our FO couldn't get ANYTHING for Tarvaris Jackson, right? Right!?!

IMHO, if we trade Flynn, it won't be for anything less than a 3rd round pick.

sam1313 wrote:All of you saying we will be lucky to get a 6th for Flynn. As yourself this question honestly - you also said that our FO couldn't get ANYTHING for Tarvaris Jackson, right? Right!?!

IMHO, if we trade Flynn, it won't be for anything less than a 3rd round pick.

I don't think we'd be "lucky" to get a 6th for Flynn. I think that would be a little low.

I think a 4th or 5th is definitely reasonable, and that we'd be lucky to get a 3rd. We'd be incredibly lucky to get a 2nd, and I'd hope that JS jumped at the chance immediately if any team offered that (even the Cardinals).

joeshaney wrote:

pinksheets wrote:

joeseahawks wrote:Jaguars are getting Tebow.
Cardinals are getting Mike Glennon from NC State
KC is going to get Flynn. We better get one of their studs.

Uh, why?

Andy Reid rips people off with backup QBs, not the other way around. He's not going to give up an elite player for Matt freaking Flynn.

I agree with you, however, it sounds like you are undervaluing Flynn.
The guys a good, starting caliber quarterback. I don't expect us to get a first round pick or likely even a second. Nonetheless, for any of you who think he won't be targeted by teams in need of a qb, you are blinded by Russell Wilson's success.

Matt Flynn is a good QB plain and simple. He's not a worthless asset as some of you seem to assume. He will either be in Seattle next year or net us something of value.

Since the whole Kevin Kolb trade, I would think FOs are being a little more cautious when it comes to dealing for backup QBs.

volsunghawk wrote:

sam1313 wrote:All of you saying we will be lucky to get a 6th for Flynn. As yourself this question honestly - you also said that our FO couldn't get ANYTHING for Tarvaris Jackson, right? Right!?!

IMHO, if we trade Flynn, it won't be for anything less than a 3rd round pick.

I don't think we'd be "lucky" to get a 6th for Flynn. I think that would be a little low.

I think a 4th or 5th is definitely reasonable, and that we'd be lucky to get a 3rd. We'd be incredibly lucky to get a 2nd, and I'd hope that JS jumped at the chance immediately if any team offered that (even the Cardinals).

I'm a lot more hesitant to give the Cardinals anything than you are. With Flynn they may have made the playoffs this year. They were tough enough defensively as it was, with Flynn they could be really difficult to deal with.

To behonest,I wouldn't be surprised to get something even better than a second for Flynn, but it all starts with the Jags. If they show a lot of interest, I think it ups Flynn's price tage significantly.

sam1313 wrote:

volsunghawk wrote:

sam1313 wrote:All of you saying we will be lucky to get a 6th for Flynn. As yourself this question honestly - you also said that our FO couldn't get ANYTHING for Tarvaris Jackson, right? Right!?!

IMHO, if we trade Flynn, it won't be for anything less than a 3rd round pick.

I don't think we'd be "lucky" to get a 6th for Flynn. I think that would be a little low.

I think a 4th or 5th is definitely reasonable, and that we'd be lucky to get a 3rd. We'd be incredibly lucky to get a 2nd, and I'd hope that JS jumped at the chance immediately if any team offered that (even the Cardinals).

I'm a lot more hesitant to give the Cardinals anything than you are. With Flynn they may have made the playoffs this year. They were tough enough defensively as it was, with Flynn they could be really difficult to deal with.

To behonest,I wouldn't be surprised to get something even better than a second for Flynn, but it all starts with the Jags. If they show a lot of interest, I think it ups Flynn's price tage significantly.

I don't think Flynn would have improved the team that much. Even when they had Kolb in (who I think is probably on par with Flynn), he wasn't performing impressively. Their early winning streak was all about the D.

I'd be absolutely shocked if anyone - seriously, ANY team in the entire NFL - offered more than a 2nd for Flynn. I'd be really surprised at a 2nd and can't envision any scenario where a team offers more than that.

volsunghawk wrote:
I'd be absolutely shocked if anyone - seriously, ANY team in the entire NFL - offered more than a 2nd for Flynn. I'd be really surprised at a 2nd and can't envision any scenario where a team offers more than that.

I think Pete and John would jump at a 2nd. It's when you get into a 3rd or 4th round pick only territory that I think they'd keep Flynn.

I do think there are 4-5 teams that'd give up a 2nd for Flynn. His salary is perfect for taking a risk on bringing him into places like Philly, Jacksonville, Oakland, KC, Buffalo (if they cut Fitzpatrick), etc.

pinksheets wrote:I never said there was some big conflict on payroll. The reason the Seahawks have so much capspace is.....say it with me...rollover! The more we rollover from one year, the more we have the next, which we're going to need in the next couple of years. So saving money by not overpaying a backup quarterback is a sound move when it means you might have a few extra million to play with when it comes to re-signing Chancellor, Sherman, Wright, etc. Flynn is not worth what we pay him for what he brings to the team, at all, it's not a good value and we can better use those resources, period. Finding a team that wants to pay him $7 million next year will be a bit of a challenge, which is why a later round pick might be something we're lucky to secure.

Im not worried about clearing a billion dollars of cap space for the purpose of "rollover". Lets at the very least wait until after our cap situation becomes hampered before we decide that rolling over 20 million dollars is going to help us.

[/quote]
Uh, why?

Andy Reid rips people off with backup QBs, not the other way around. He's not going to give up an elite player for Matt freaking Flynn.[/quote]

I agree with you, however, it sounds like you are undervaluing Flynn.
The guys a good, starting caliber quarterback. I don't expect us to get a first round pick or likely even a second. Nonetheless, for any of you who think he won't be targeted by teams in need of a qb, you are blinded by Russell Wilson's success.

Matt Flynn is a good QB plain and simple. He's not a worthless asset as some of you seem to assume. He will either be in Seattle next year or net us something of value.[/quote]

Since the whole Kevin Kolb trade, I would think FOs are being a little more cautious when it comes to dealing for backup QBs.[/quote]

I agree....this is why I don't believe we will land a probowl player in addition to a second round pick.
A simple 3rd and a depth player would be a more realistic bargain.

Given the way the Hawks have been drafting, I'd almost hope for as many picks as possible, screw the round. Schneider can get 'em late just as well as he can get 'em early.

3rd, 4th, or 5th rounder and PC/JS jump at it and send him packing..... 6th and I think they have to think about it.

Im guessing they get a 5th for him. If some team sends a 4th to the hawks we are blessed and take that pick to the bank laughing.

joeshaney wrote:

pinksheets wrote:I never said there was some big conflict on payroll. The reason the Seahawks have so much capspace is.....say it with me...rollover! The more we rollover from one year, the more we have the next, which we're going to need in the next couple of years. So saving money by not overpaying a backup quarterback is a sound move when it means you might have a few extra million to play with when it comes to re-signing Chancellor, Sherman, Wright, etc. Flynn is not worth what we pay him for what he brings to the team, at all, it's not a good value and we can better use those resources, period. Finding a team that wants to pay him $7 million next year will be a bit of a challenge, which is why a later round pick might be something we're lucky to secure.

Im not worried about clearing a billion dollars of cap space for the purpose of "rollover". Lets at the very least wait until after our cap situation becomes hampered before we decide that rolling over 20 million dollars is going to help us.

That's how horrible front offices think, not ours.

"Let's not worry about making cap moves until we're dangerously limited by the salary cap."

Great strategy.

We're not going to roll over $20 million, the $18 mill we're starting with will get spent in a variety of ways, maybe not fully, but adding another $3 or $4m (which I think is what we alleviate with Flynn in terms of cap space) might not sound like a lot, but it could very well be a difference maker next year.

pinksheets wrote:

joeshaney wrote:

pinksheets wrote:I never said there was some big conflict on payroll. The reason the Seahawks have so much capspace is.....say it with me...rollover! The more we rollover from one year, the more we have the next, which we're going to need in the next couple of years. So saving money by not overpaying a backup quarterback is a sound move when it means you might have a few extra million to play with when it comes to re-signing Chancellor, Sherman, Wright, etc. Flynn is not worth what we pay him for what he brings to the team, at all, it's not a good value and we can better use those resources, period. Finding a team that wants to pay him $7 million next year will be a bit of a challenge, which is why a later round pick might be something we're lucky to secure.

Im not worried about clearing a billion dollars of cap space for the purpose of "rollover". Lets at the very least wait until after our cap situation becomes hampered before we decide that rolling over 20 million dollars is going to help us.

That's how horrible front offices think, not ours.

"Let's not worry about making cap moves until we're dangerously limited by the salary cap."

Great strategy.

We're not going to roll over $20 million, the $18 mill we're starting with will get spent in a variety of ways, maybe not fully, but adding another $3 or $4m (which I think is what we alleviate with Flynn in terms of cap space) might not sound like a lot, but it could very well be a difference maker next year.

You are not understanding what I meant. Nobody wants us to be "dangerously limited by the salary cap" silly.

I understand that horrible front offices maintain strategies to be "dangerously limited by the salary cap". Take the 49ers for example.....Wait a minute....

The point is were not going to spend money just to spend money. At the same time, unless it makes the team better (which in a draft where we are already overloaded with picks, a 6th round pick and the subtraction of a quality backup qb will not) there is no reason to salary dump.

Now, it is quite possible that Seattle finds a replacement for Flynn and needs his salary cap number off there books in order to complete free agent acquisitions. I don't personally see them spending much money this offseason, but even if they wanted to there is no point in speculation.

Simply, at there current cap position there is no stress to unload Flynn's contract for an additional 6th round pick in a year they don't need more picks. Certainly, this could change through the extension of Kam Chancellor and the signing of a big free agent target (for example). Until that happens, however, Flynn is a good player to keep around unless you bring back value that is worth more than the crap Tarvaris Jackson netted us that some of you are so keen to believe is a worthy move to exile Flynn.