Where will Flynn play next year?

joeshaney":1ufz0brn said:

Bradley's defense went up against Flynn in practice daily and he is sure to have and likely still have access to whatever evaluations of Flynn that are relevant. Does this mean that Bradley is a shoe in to be drooling over Flynn? No, but he will certainly have a solid basis for determining the guys value. Blaine Gabbert, on the other hand, is a worthless bum. Let's not get blinded by his draft status and recognize the in his many opportunities to produce hes proven himself to be a significantly worse option than even Henne.

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You are making assumptions in relationship to how the Jags view Gabbert. Is the owner willing to eat the investment or will he insist on giving Gabbert another chance, with competition from Henne or some mid-level veteran to provide competition? Not blinded to draft status but it isn't my money to totally write off the guy. Would Flynn want to leave one situation for another with no guarantees of starting? He doesn't have much say but he has some.

Yep, the 1's vs the 1's was done quite a bit during the regular season practice but there were times Flynn practiced against the 1's on defense. Portis was here for awhile, running scout team against the 1's. Yep, Flynn's evaluation was available to Bradley. Does Bradley have enough info to make Flynn his first major acquisition and would Caldwell buy in?

drdiags":334m1f16 said:

joeshaney":334m1f16 said:

Bradley's defense went up against Flynn in practice daily and he is sure to have and likely still have access to whatever evaluations of Flynn that are relevant. Does this mean that Bradley is a shoe in to be drooling over Flynn? No, but he will certainly have a solid basis for determining the guys value. Blaine Gabbert, on the other hand, is a worthless bum. Let's not get blinded by his draft status and recognize the in his many opportunities to produce hes proven himself to be a significantly worse option than even Henne.

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You are making assumptions in relationship to how the Jags view Gabbert. Is the owner willing to eat the investment or will he insist on giving Gabbert another chance, with competition from Henne or some mid-level veteran to provide competition? Not blinded to draft status but it isn't my money to totally write off the guy. Would Flynn want to leave one situation for another with no guarantees of starting? He doesn't have much say but he has some.

Yep, the 1's vs the 1's was done quite a bit during the regular season practice but there were times Flynn practiced against the 1's on defense. Portis was here for awhile, running scout team against the 1's. Yep, Flynn's evaluation was available to Bradley. Does Bradley have enough info to make Flynn his first major acquisition and would Caldwell buy in?

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I am definitely making an assumption that they are done with Gabbert. I am doing so for two reasons. One, Gabbert is dreadful. Two, after hiring a new coach you must allow him to operate the team the ways he sees will bring the team the most success. This I am thoroughly confident will not involve Blaine stinkin' Gabbert.

However, though I am confident Gabbert is finished I am not assuming that Gus Bradley will make Flynn his starting quarterback. I am only suggesting that Bradley may or may not be interested. If he is interested it would certainly be because he sees Flynn as a starter (and thus worth decent trade value as staring qbs are the most valuable asset a team could have). If he is NOT interested than it provides strong indication that Flynn will not likely be viewed as anything more than a backup and therefore not be worth trading (as the return would be worth less than what we'd be losing - a solid backup).

If there were some quality quarterback prospects in the draft the situation would be even more unclear. However, I don't see the Jaguars burning such a high pick on an unworthy QB out of desperation when there is much better value on defense. I am pretty confident that Bradley will be looking for defensive linemen and possibly secondary help early in the draft.

This is merely my opinion and only worth as much the next guys.

joeshaney":1hmxmzjd said:

RichNhansom":1hmxmzjd said:

Smith is so good that his coach replaced him mid season for a completely unknown. Not a guy with a couple amazing performances. He went with the unknown based off extremely limited information and in the middle of a super bowl run. You seem to have forgotten that or even question why a coach would go with the less experience. It is a reason why I think others will view Smith similarly.

You can call me fan boy but not without acknowledging that your just a hater. I'll take mine if you take yours.

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Couldn't agree more. Smith certainly has a more expansive resume, but what does it really say.
A team knows exactly what they are getting with Smith. A inconsistent, mediocre quarterback who hasn't done anything impressive.

Flynn's mystery is definitely the issue, but that is exactly why I see him going to the Jaguars.
If Gus Bradley does not see Flynn as a starting QB in the league, we could hang on to him knowing Flynn's market value is not worth moving him.
If Gus Bradley does like him to start he will have no problem sending a 3rd round pick at the least.

In Jacksonville, Flynn would have a decent set of weapons to work with in Jones-Drew, Blackmon, Shorts, and Bennett. With a little help on their offensive line I think it'd be rather fun to see what kind of success Flynn would have. This way, Bradley and Jacksonville could shift their attention on their biggest problem (defense).

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Some really good points, except this one, which is mixed:
"A team knows exactly what they are getting with Smith. A inconsistent, mediocre quarterback who hasn't done anything impressive."

It's a BAD CALL: New Orleans playoff game, last year, Alex Smith was the only reason the 49er's made it to the NFC Championship game, leading the team to 2 TDs in the last 2:11. Do you really think his performance in that game wasn't impressive? Smith led the 49ers to a 13-3 record, and home field advantage. Smith played well enough in the NFC championship game for SF to be in the Super Bowl. The only reason they weren't was Kyle Williams 2 lost fumbles on punts, including one with unbelievably bad timing, that gifted the game to the Giants. Smith played well enough to win against an ELITE Giants defense. Brady didn't have the greatest game against that defense in the Super Bowl...

It's a GOOD CALL: Yeah, Smith sucked against the Giants in the NFC Championship game, 12-26, and just not putting enough points on the board. It would have been impressive if Smith had lit them up for 300 yards and SF gotten a win by 2 TDs.

Bottom line, Flynn and Smith are both above-average NFL starting QBs. If I'm a GM looking for a QB that can get my team to the playoffs, it's almost a tossup. I like Flynn better as a pocket passer, think he's better at reading defenses, and running an up-tempo, no-huddle type of offense. (So maybe Chip Kelly in Philly will be interested). On the other hand, I like Smith's mobility, athleticism, and escapability a little better, and maybe with more continuity with the same coordinator, Smith can become more consistent as a passer. I also have to think Smith will be that much hungrier, willing to work hard, put in the study, having been cast aside. On the downside, if Harbaugh didn't buy into Smith, what is it that Harbaugh knows about Smith? The same stuff that Harbaugh knew about Sherman? (In which case Smith becomes the obvious choice) or is Harbaugh correct in his assessment of Smith's "limitations"? Anyway, as a GM of an also-ran who needs a QB, I probably go for Flynn over Smith by just a tiny margin, but I'm happy if I can get either one.

joeshaney":2c3jg0ly said:

This is merely my opinion and only worth as much the next guys.

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Same here. Not assuming I am correct, just discussing various angles. Not saying you are wrong, just responding to you after you raised some questions/counter points about my post. I have no stake in this discussion. Just thinking out loud.

RichNhansom":1u8iq6dr said:

Smith is so good that his coach replaced him mid season for a completely unknown. Not a guy with a couple amazing performances. He went with the unknown based off extremely limited information and in the middle of a super bowl run. You seem to have forgotten that or even question why a coach would go with the less experience. It is a reason why I think others will view Smith similarly.

You can call me fan boy but not without acknowledging that your just a hater. I'll take mine if you take yours.

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http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/ ... ssion.html

Smith had a concussion and wasn't cleared to play, man. He was out for two weeks, and Kaepernick came in and played really well, giving the 49ers offense an element it didn't have with Smith. Harbaugh chose to stick with the new guy (or the "hot hand" or whatever you want to call it), and he got a lot of flack over it - especially after the subpar performance Kaepernick put on against the Seahawks.

Quit trying to paint it like Smith was being ineffective and just got pulled for Kaepernick.

drdiags":34wbq05x said:

joeshaney":34wbq05x said:

This is merely my opinion and only worth as much the next guys.

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Same here. Not assuming I am correct, just discussing various angles. Not saying you are wrong, just responding to you after you raised some questions/counter points about my post. I have no stake in this discussion. Just thinking out loud.

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Good conversation friend.
It is quite likely Flynn isn't traded at all. If so, I just cant see a better fit than with the Jags.
Alex Smith, on the other hand, is extremely difficult to imagine with the 9ers and all of their cap issues next year.

He would also be a goo fit in Jacksonville and who Bradley targets should provide some conclusion to who the better option is.

volsunghawk":3e6opxmt said:

RichNhansom":3e6opxmt said:

Smith is so good that his coach replaced him mid season for a completely unknown. Not a guy with a couple amazing performances. He went with the unknown based off extremely limited information and in the middle of a super bowl run. You seem to have forgotten that or even question why a coach would go with the less experience. It is a reason why I think others will view Smith similarly.

You can call me fan boy but not without acknowledging that your just a hater. I'll take mine if you take yours.

Click to expand...

http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/ ... ssion.html

Smith had a concussion and wasn't cleared to play, man. He was out for two weeks, and Kaepernick came in and played really well, giving the 49ers offense an element it didn't have with Smith. Harbaugh chose to stick with the new guy (or the "hot hand" or whatever you want to call it), and he got a lot of flack over it - especially after the subpar performance Kaepernick put on against the Seahawks.

Quit trying to paint it like Smith was being ineffective and just got pulled for Kaepernick.

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By the same logic Flynn got signed to a pretty decent contract but got REPLACED PRESEASON BY A COMPLETE UNKNOWN.

If someone is trading for Smith or Flynn, I don't think they're thinking they're getting a franchise QB in return, so set your expectations for the price accordingly. Further, Smith is still far more proven. Hold his early seasons against him, fine, but he also quarterbacked a 13-3 team last year and even singlehandedly won a playoff game. People are overrating Flynn and underrating every other available QB whether that be by FA, trade, or the draft class, I assume because it supports their desire to get some kind of killer deal for Flynn.

Joeshaney, I don't know that we will get a third, I think that is on the high side because there are to many variables surrounding the position?. I did a wright up on page two about some of thr variables. I do believe if we were capable of getting anything for Jackson then trading Flynn should be no problem. I just don't know how much he will actually garner.

RichNhansom":3fysnl5v said:

Joeshaney, I don't know that we will get a third, I think that is on the high side because there are to many variables surrounding the position?. I did a wright up on page two about some of thr variables. I do believe if we were capable of getting anything for Jackson then trading Flynn should be no problem. I just don't know how much he will actually garner.

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I understand your logic and unless some team views him as a starter you are right on.
My feeling, however, is that if all we can get is a late round pick for Flynn he will be staying put. The only purpose for trading away a player like Flynn is to make the team better. If there isn't a trade that makes the team better than there will be no trade occurring.

Therefore, I believe that Flynn will be either in Seattle next year or traded to the Jags for a 3rd round pick and possibly an additional depth player or late round pick.

joeshaney":35qi5mz2 said:

RichNhansom":35qi5mz2 said:

Joeshaney, I don't know that we will get a third, I think that is on the high side because there are to many variables surrounding the position?. I did a wright up on page two about some of thr variables. I do believe if we were capable of getting anything for Jackson then trading Flynn should be no problem. I just don't know how much he will actually garner.

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I understand your logic and unless some team views him as a starter you are right on.
My feeling, however, is that if all we can get is a late round pick for Flynn he will be staying put. The only purpose for trading away a player like Flynn is to make the team better. If there isn't a trade that makes the team better than there will be no trade occurring.

Therefore, I believe that Flynn will be either in Seattle next year or traded to the Jags for a 3rd round pick and possibly an additional depth player or late round pick.

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Uh, cap space, that makes the team better. Gives us more wiggle room to sign a FA who might actually start for this team and room to extend our young guys who are all going to be looking for a payday in the coming years.

If the best they can get for Flynn is a 6th, I'd be shocked if they passed.

joeshaney":3hfqoqkx said:

RichNhansom":3hfqoqkx said:

Joeshaney, I don't know that we will get a third, I think that is on the high side because there are to many variables surrounding the position?. I did a wright up on page two about some of thr variables. I do believe if we were capable of getting anything for Jackson then trading Flynn should be no problem. I just don't know how much he will actually garner.

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I understand your logic and unless some team views him as a starter you are right on.
My feeling, however, is that if all we can get is a late round pick for Flynn he will be staying put. The only purpose for trading away a player like Flynn is to make the team better. If there isn't a trade that makes the team better than there will be no trade occurring.

Therefore, I believe that Flynn will be either in Seattle next year or traded to the Jags for a 3rd round pick and possibly an additional depth player or late round pick.

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I have to agree with Pink here. We could use his cap space for a starter and letting Flynn go after a starter position is the right thing to do so if the best case were even a 6th I would think they would grab it and move on.

I would love to have Flynn as our backup if he is willing to be that but I get the feeling he is to competitive to want to stay a backup. I think Flynn views himself as a starter and a disgruntled back up is not a good thing.

I wouldn't mind bringing in someone like Seneca Wallace who would be much less expensive and could run the wild cat. It would be a bonus that he would probably relish being a back up for us also.

volsunghawk":ksr0y3zo said:

RichNhansom":ksr0y3zo said:

Smith is so good that his coach replaced him mid season for a completely unknown. Not a guy with a couple amazing performances. He went with the unknown based off extremely limited information and in the middle of a super bowl run. You seem to have forgotten that or even question why a coach would go with the less experience. It is a reason why I think others will view Smith similarly.

You can call me fan boy but not without acknowledging that your just a hater. I'll take mine if you take yours.

Click to expand...

http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/ ... ssion.html

Smith had a concussion and wasn't cleared to play, man. He was out for two weeks, and Kaepernick came in and played really well, giving the 49ers offense an element it didn't have with Smith. Harbaugh chose to stick with the new guy (or the "hot hand" or whatever you want to call it), and he got a lot of flack over it - especially after the subpar performance Kaepernick put on against the Seahawks.

Quit trying to paint it like Smith was being ineffective and just got pulled for Kaepernick.

Click to expand...

I know Smith had a concussion and Kaep played well in his first game but right after that first game is when Harbaugh said he would go with the hot hand and Smith was cleared to play the following week. That doesn't change that Harbaugh in the middle of a super bowl run decided to go with the guy who had shown less than Flynn at that point. That should tell you everything you need to know about the views of a 7 year veteran QB even playing his best football still was less enticing than the complete unknown who only had one game under his belt at the time and it wasn't as good as Flynn's best game statistically or by the eyeball test.

Why are you trying to make an argument for the experienced player but ignoring his own coach benched him even when he was playing his best football in favor of the unknown? How do you ignore that there was more known about Flynn than Kaepernick at the same time? There is no way to justify the belief that Flynn hasn't proved anything yet Kaepernick had. Either it is that or Harbaugh didn't believe Smith was a better option than an unknown. Fact is Harbaugh never gave Smith another chance. He chose the unknow with potentail and I think smart GM's will see it that way as well. I honestly don't know how you can ignore it.

pinksheets":3vq8qa2x said:

joeshaney":3vq8qa2x said:

RichNhansom":3vq8qa2x said:

Joeshaney, I don't know that we will get a third, I think that is on the high side because there are to many variables surrounding the position?. I did a wright up on page two about some of thr variables. I do believe if we were capable of getting anything for Jackson then trading Flynn should be no problem. I just don't know how much he will actually garner.

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I understand your logic and unless some team views him as a starter you are right on.
My feeling, however, is that if all we can get is a late round pick for Flynn he will be staying put. The only purpose for trading away a player like Flynn is to make the team better. If there isn't a trade that makes the team better than there will be no trade occurring.

Therefore, I believe that Flynn will be either in Seattle next year or traded to the Jags for a 3rd round pick and possibly an additional depth player or late round pick.

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Uh, cap space, that makes the team better. Gives us more wiggle room to sign a FA who might actually start for this team and room to extend our young guys who are all going to be looking for a payday in the coming years.

If the best they can get for Flynn is a 6th, I'd be shocked if they passed.

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Cap space is not an issue for the Seahawks...at all.

joeshaney":26amqz3b said:

Cap space is not an issue for the Seahawks...at all.

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I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Right now Clayton projects them to have $18m in cap space next year. Sounds like a decent amount, right? It is, but they've got to worry about whether or not to bring back Branch or Jason Jones or to look in FA to perhaps address the pass rush. Then we add the rookies. Whatever we have left in cap space after that.....can be carried over into the next year. Our young players will soon be up for new deals and if we want to keep as many of them as we can, we're going to need to save every penny we can and try to rollover as much cap as we can. Saving a few million by moving Flynn would be a big deal.

This isn't about being against the cap next year, it's about planning ahead for the next few years when guys like Kam Chancellor, KJ Wright, Richard Sherman and the other important pieces that are making like $500-$700k a year start looking for a bit more.

RichNhansom":fhfs74cf said:

volsunghawk":fhfs74cf said:

RichNhansom":fhfs74cf said:

Smith is so good that his coach replaced him mid season for a completely unknown. Not a guy with a couple amazing performances. He went with the unknown based off extremely limited information and in the middle of a super bowl run. You seem to have forgotten that or even question why a coach would go with the less experience. It is a reason why I think others will view Smith similarly.

You can call me fan boy but not without acknowledging that your just a hater. I'll take mine if you take yours.

Click to expand...

http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/ ... ssion.html

Smith had a concussion and wasn't cleared to play, man. He was out for two weeks, and Kaepernick came in and played really well, giving the 49ers offense an element it didn't have with Smith. Harbaugh chose to stick with the new guy (or the "hot hand" or whatever you want to call it), and he got a lot of flack over it - especially after the subpar performance Kaepernick put on against the Seahawks.

Quit trying to paint it like Smith was being ineffective and just got pulled for Kaepernick.

Click to expand...

I know Smith had a concussion and Kaep played well in his first game but right after that first game is when Harbaugh said he would go with the hot hand and Smith was cleared to play the following week. That doesn't change that Harbaugh in the middle of a super bowl run decided to go with the guy who had shown less than Flynn at that point. That should tell you everything you need to know about the views of a 7 year veteran QB even playing his best football still was less enticing than the complete unknown who only had one game under his belt at the time and it wasn't as good as Flynn's best game statistically or by the eyeball test.

Why are you trying to make an argument for the experienced player but ignoring his own coach benched him even when he was playing his best football in favor of the unknown? How do you ignore that there was more known about Flynn than Kaepernick at the same time? There is no way to justify the belief that Flynn hasn't proved anything yet Kaepernick had. Either it is that or Harbaugh didn't believe Smith was a better option than an unknown. Fact is Harbaugh never gave Smith another chance. He chose the unknow with potentail and I think smart GM's will see it that way as well. I honestly don't know how you can ignore it.

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No, that's not accurate. Harbaugh didn't pick Kaepernick "right after that first game." Smith was injured early in the Rams tie, and Kaepernick played well in the remainder of the game. He also played well in the Chicago and New Orleans games after that, and it wasn't until then that Smith was cleared. Kaepernick was playing just about as well as Smith had, and he was doing so with much less experience. And here's the biggest point... Kaepernick was doing it with the exact same team. Kaepernick didn't put up his two and a half games of evidence with some offensive juggernaut in another division and then come into the 49ers lineup.

So, in the end, what Harbaugh saw was his more athletically gifted backup QB playing as well as his starter, and doing so for a far smaller contract. That made Smith expendable, as long as Kaepernick proved he could continue the very good production he'd been generating. It wasn't about Smith sucking... it was about Kaepernick excelling on the cheap. That should sound familiar to you. Flynn didn't lose out on the Seahawks starting job because he sucked... he lost it because Wilson was better (and it does help that Wilson is cheaper, too).

When it comes to potential trades and teams are faced with the prospect of going for Smith or Flynn, they're not going to be looking at two vastly different QBs as far as talent or ability goes. Both guys seem smart, team-oriented, affable, and capable. Neither of them seem like guys who would inspire their team to follow them to the gates of Hell or anything, but they seem like they could lead without tripping over their own junk at the very least. That said, if the money is similar and the compensation in trade is similar, I guarantee you that most if not all NFL front offices will go with the guy with more experience every time - unless there is a talent gap, age gap, or injury history gap that forces them to do otherwise. And there's no way you will convince me that's the case between Smith and Flynn.

SEATTLE!!

Personally I think Flynn will fetch more than a 4th round pick precisely because his contract is so reasonable.

If you knew you knew you were getting a top notch backup QB what would that be worth?

What is a starting QB worth?

What would a QB be worth that was supposed to be a starter but lost out to...Russell Freaking Wilson...

Is that starting QB still worth more than a backup? I'd think so.

Is that starting QB will worth more than Matt Cassell? I'd think so there too.

In fact, I'd say Matt Flynn will go on to have a better career than Cassell, Schaub, Sanchez, Gabbert, Vince Young, Jake Locker, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kevin Kolb and any mediocre QB you could throw out there. Flynn is a starter. Starters are worth something.

I think the likely best case scenario right now is probably to trade Flynn to a team drafting early and swap picks in the 2nd round. That's pretty much what I'm hoping for.

pinksheets":30vq6s8o said:

joeshaney":30vq6s8o said:

Cap space is not an issue for the Seahawks...at all.

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I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Right now Clayton projects them to have $18m in cap space next year. Sounds like a decent amount, right? It is, but they've got to worry about whether or not to bring back Branch or Jason Jones or to look in FA to perhaps address the pass rush. Then we add the rookies. Whatever we have left in cap space after that.....can be carried over into the next year. Our young players will soon be up for new deals and if we want to keep as many of them as we can, we're going to need to save every penny we can and try to rollover as much cap as we can. Saving a few million by moving Flynn would be a big deal.

This isn't about being against the cap next year, it's about planning ahead for the next few years when guys like Kam Chancellor, KJ Wright, Richard Sherman and the other important pieces that are making like $500-$700k a year start looking for a bit more.

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I don't think you know what your talking about.....
The Seahawks cap position is among the best in the NFL. You can poster free agency how ever you see fit, but they are still in a very, very good position. Duh, of course we can hope they have plans on making acquisitions. Nonetheless, to assume they will be excited to throw away a quality backup quarterback for a 6th round pick is flat out retarded. Particularly in a year when we already are slated to have 10 picks as is.

To think that the Seahawks front office are at some conflict with there payroll due to Matt Flynn's contract is silly.....

I would also mention that the Arizona Cardinals were approximately 1 point something million dollars OVER the salary cap at the same time they were courting Peyton Manning.