If Possible, Would You Want -- Osi Umenyiora or Jared Allen?

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If Possible, Which DE Option Would You Want?

Osi Umenyiora
14
15%
Jared Allen
61
64%
Other (Specify who in thread)
3
3%
None -- Look for a stud DE in the draft
17
18%
 
Total votes : 95

  • I saw this idea mentioned in the Osi Umenyiora thread and felt it was an intriguing enough idea that merited further debate. Now, in the end I'm not sure if either of these DE options for the Hawks is realistic or not ... but hey it's the offseason and what else are we honestly going to talk about?

    So, a couple of different scenarios have been presented as ideas over the last couple of days for how the Seahawks could possibly address the loss of Chris Clemons via veteran help. Here are 2 scenarios that I personally find interesting ...

    1) Sign Osi Umenyiora in Free Agency John Clayton believes that Osi could be had through Free Agency on a 1 Year/$4 Million deal with the Hawks (similar to the contract that they inked Jason Jones to). We know that Umenyiora has wanted to Escape From New York for some time now and apparently likes the Seahawks, so this one could have some legs. He'll turn 32 in November, which has made some out there a bit leery when you take a look at his production the last few seasons (11.5 Sacks in 2010 ... 9.0 Sacks in 2011 ... and 6.0 Sacks in 2012). So is he over the hill or just unhappy? Will that production return again given a new scenario? Good question, but I know this -- Reggie White had 8 Sacks in 1994 (age 33). He came back the next season at age 34 and had 12 Sacks (he played until he was 39 and ended up registering 16 Sacks at age 37). So, it's not at all beyond the realm of possibility that we could see that from Osi as well.


    The second option is an interesting option that Zowert and Kearly both talked about earlier ...

    2) Trade Matt Flynn to the Vikings for Jared Allen Now why in the Wide Wide World of Sports would the Vikings want to do that ... and HOW could that kind of a deal actually make sense? Follow me here for a second ...

    Jared Allen's contract calls for him to be paid $11.62 Million next season ... BUT, coupled with his bonuses he's scheduled to count a whopping $17 million against the Vikings Cap. That's an astronomical figure. In addition, Allen was scheduled to have shoulder surgery to repair a torn labrum. Being that he's going to be 31 when the season opens next year, and the Vikings clearly have other holes they need to fill, they might actually consider the idea of moving him if some team comes knocking with reasonable deal. Additionally, he's in the last year of his deal, so the Vikings are at a bit of a crossroads with his anyway. If Minnesota is honestly looking to offload Allen, a deal involving Flynn going to them might make some sense for both the Vikings and the Seahawks.

    If you at all watched Ponder this year and saw the mighty Joe Webb against the Packers, you know that Minnesota clearly is in need of an upgrade at QB. Given where they're drafting (the 23rd Pick in this year's draft) it's highly unlikely they're going to be able to get a legitimate one there. Moving up in the draft to get a Barkley or Gino Smith will be expensive for them ... and there aren't a whole ton of really good options out there in free agency or in the trade market from what I can see other than Flynn. Flynn would cost them $7,250,000 against the Cap next year ... and $8,250,000 against the Cap in 2014 (fairly reasonable IF they view him as a guy who could start over Ponder [I believe he'd win in an open competition].) If Seattle actually sent them a draft pick (say a 3rd or 4th Rounder) along with Flynn ... that scenario could be fairly attractive to the Vikings. From their standpoint, they'd be saving money (which they could use elsewhere in strengthening their team), getting a potential starting QB, and a high enough draft pick that they could use to bring in another young quality player.

    From Seattle's standpoint, IF the medical reports look good, Allen is a player that could significantly improve the pass rush. As it stands right now, the Seahawks have $18.6 Million under the cap. Even taking on Allen's deal as-is, Seattle would still have around $8.85 under the cap, as they would re-coup that cap number that they'd otherwise be spending on Flynn. That's still enough room to work on other areas that need improvement on this team ... to say nothing about the draft.

    Personality-wise, Jared Allen is exactly the type of relentless hard-nosed player that Pete Carroll and John Schneider crave, and his mentality fits in beautifully with the rest of that Seahawks Defense. Additionally, Allen himself may find the Seahawks situation to his liking and realistically could want to sign an extension to stay beyond next season. Right now, the Seahawks look to be as good a Super Bowl contender as anyone. Also, with Darrell Bevell and Sidney Rice, the Minnesota connection is there. Lastly, Allen played for Idaho State University, so he's got some ties to the Pacific Northwest. So the Hawks could theoretically have themselves an impact player for the next 2-3 years. And even if Seattle sent the Vikings a draft pick, they probably still would have enough draft capital to add an impact DT, maybe another DE, a Nickel CB, a LB, etc.

    So, what do you guys think? If those scenarios were to present themselves, would you like:

    1) Osi Umenyiora
    2) Jared Allen
    3) Some Other FA (Specify Who and Why)
    4) None of the Above -- Look for an Impact DE in the Draft.
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  • Voted for Allen, (I'd love me some Jared Allen), but with the proviso that we'd have enough money to resign ET to a big-ass deal (as in here's a blank check and a pen) along with it. I know people talk about Sherm and Russ for extensions, but Sherm can't be extended for another year and Russ for another two, ET has to be the biggest priority for the FO in terms of re-signing. If we can take care of him, getting Jared Allen would be bitching, because as you mention he's in his last year, so if we were to sign him to an extension, as a 31-32 year old Free Agency it would be alot more affordable then his current cap hit. ET has to take priority though.

    Ramble complete.
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  • HawksSoc wrote:Voted for Allen, (I'd love me some Jared Allen), but with the proviso that we'd have enough money to resign ET to a big-ass deal (as in here's a blank check and a pen) along with it. I know people talk about Sherm and Russ for extensions, but Sherm can't be extended for another year and Russ for another two, ET has to be the biggest priority for the FO in terms of re-signing. If we can take care of him, getting Jared Allen would be bitching, because as you mention he's in his last year, so if we were to sign him to an extension, as a 31-32 year old Free Agency it would be alot more affordable then his current cap hit. ET has to take priority though.

    Ramble complete.


    If such a deal were actually to come to fruition (Allen to the Seahawks that is), I would have to think that Schneider may have a sit down with him and look to negotiate a longer contract (maybe extend it a year) in order to help defray some of the cost. Even so, I believe that the Seahawks would have enough $$$ for an Earl Thomas extension even IF such a deal were to go through. We're talking about Jared Allen on a 1 year deal here -- I think very do-able in this scenario if Flynn is part of the package.
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  • We need an every down DT who can not only stop the run but collapse the pocket on passing downs. Our Des will not be that effective consistently until we get one of those

    Now having both Starks and Allen, that would be awesome
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  • I voted before I read your scenario. I just assumed Allen would cost a ton. Now Allen would be expensive but if we are talking impact I'd much prefer Allen to Osi. Value wise it would be a hard call and Osi might bring more for less, but I love the fact Allen is from Idaho.
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  • Our problem isn't really a lack of pass-rushing DEs. It's lack of a monster DT to eat double teams. Most of the teams that have a great pass rush have that in common. Plus, both of these guys will be 31 to start next season; I don't want to sign another aging vet who will under-perform for us.
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  • warden wrote:We need an every down DT who can not only stop the run but collapse the pocket on passing downs. Our Des will not be that effective consistently until we get one of those

    Now having both Starks and Allen, that would be awesome


    There's nothing to preclude the possibility that the Hawks could trade for an Allen in this scenario ... and then pick up a guy like Sheldon Richardson in the draft. I believe there are options out there in the draft in terms of DT's.

    Wenhawk wrote:I voted before I read your scenario. I just assumed Allen would cost a ton. Now Allen would be expensive but if we are talking impact I'd much prefer Allen to Osi. Value wise it would be a hard call and Osi might bring more for less, but I love the fact Allen is from Idaho.


    Well Allen isn't FROM Idaho actually ... he just played at Idaho State in Pocatello. He's actually from San Jose originally.

    RolandDeschain wrote:Our problem isn't really a lack of pass-rushing DEs. It's lack of a monster DT to eat double teams. Most of the teams that have a great pass rush have that in common. Plus, both of these guys will be 31 to start next season; I don't want to sign another aging vet who will under-perform for us.


    With Clemons out passing rushing DE's most certainly ARE an issue for this team now. As far as DT's are concerned, I'd personally look more to the draft for that one if I'm the Hawks (Sheldon Richardson is the one I'm personally targeting). And as I said in terms of Jared Allen -- we're talking about a guy who's going to be on a 1 year deal here. There's been no signs that he's underperformed thus far and like I also said, Reggie White continued to put up monster sack numbers late in his career (he had 16 Sacks at age 37). Something to keep in mind.
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  • Hawkscanner wrote:With Clemons out passing rushing DE's most certainly ARE an issue for this team now.


    Clemons will almost certainly be ready for the regular season unless he re-injures himself somehow. His age is a concern, though. Picking up Osi or Allen doesn't really address that issue.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:Our problem isn't really a lack of pass-rushing DEs. It's lack of a monster DT to eat double teams. Most of the teams that have a great pass rush have that in common. Plus, both of these guys will be 31 to start next season; I don't want to sign another aging vet who will under-perform for us.

    COMPLETELY agree with you Roland. And don't forget starting with the SF game in SF that our defense consistently got utterly gashed up the middle in the run game as well. An over the hill Michael Turner ran through the Hawks' D like a hot knife through butter in the playoff game. Some of that is on Wagner and the other LBs, but some is on the DTs as well. This team is in desperate need of help at the DT position for both pass rush and run stopping IMO.
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  • Honestly, I don't think Clemon's age is an issue outside of maybe a slightly delayed healing time. It might be a little far fetched to think he will be full strength at season opening though. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing Osi and Allen both picked up and the DT position addressed very high in the draft ala 1st round. Let those DE's compete. You absolutely cannot have enough stud rushers.

    Money is an issue yes, but I think it is quite possible given the above Allen scenario.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:Our problem isn't really a lack of pass-rushing DEs. It's lack of a monster DT to eat double teams. Most of the teams that have a great pass rush have that in common. Plus, both of these guys will be 31 to start next season; I don't want to sign another aging vet who will under-perform for us.


    I kinda disagree. I agree in spirit; pressure up the middle is the missing piece of the puzzle, but I don't think the answer is a monster like you've described.

    I think we have plenty of big strong DT's who can command double teams from the 1-tech spot. Mebane does it with regularity but Red or Branch could likely do it too. No, what we lack is a pass rushing 3-tech to take advantage of the 1 on 1 with the guard that the combination of a big double team eating 1-tech and a speedy edge rushing DE provide. Branch tends to sit there and sumo-wrestle with the guard and Jones (who I love) gets blown right out of the play if he doesn't win the battle on the first step. We need someone who's big enough to play in the middle and plug up the running lanes with some serious pass rush moves to get in the backfield on passing downs. I'm really hoping Scruggs can develop into that guy, but he's not there yet.

    We could probably take advantage of the gaps created by the double team on the 1-tech and the sumo fight with the 3-tech to blitz a LB or a safety, but that's not really Pete's MO. He wants pressure with the front 4 alone and we're not going to get that without a BIG upgrade at 3-tech.
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  • Really, if we could unload Flynn's contract then spending to upgrade the defensive line while maintaining the cap for future contracts becomes possible. I think Osi could be a perfect LEO, even his age, a smaller and shorter contract while we wait for Clemons to come back 100% then we could draft and develop more interior depth and Irvin. If we just want to add an interior DT 3 tech and spend the big money, Melton is young and could be an asset for years inside. I would imaging we unloaded Flynn and restructured or released Red or Clemons in that scenario, as much as I love what Red brings and Clemons there is no guarantee Clemons comes back as good as he has been the last three seasons and Bryant makes the most of all our defensive players while probably not nearly as good as Wagner, Sherman, or Thomas in terms of production.

    Adding Melton inside with Mebane and Irvin/Scruggs on the outside + drafting a few DE's with a Branch resigning to a reasonable contract looks a lot better on the books going forward. We could even add Osi on top of that and suddenly the front seven is in better shape in terms of pass rush and run stopping.
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  • Jared is a beast, I would love to have him on the Hawks!
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  • CANHawk wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:Our problem isn't really a lack of pass-rushing DEs. It's lack of a monster DT to eat double teams. Most of the teams that have a great pass rush have that in common. Plus, both of these guys will be 31 to start next season; I don't want to sign another aging vet who will under-perform for us.


    I kinda disagree. I agree in spirit; pressure up the middle is the missing piece of the puzzle, but I don't think the answer is a monster like you've described.

    I think we have plenty of big strong DT's who can command double teams from the 1-tech spot. Mebane does it with regularity but Red or Branch could likely do it too. No, what we lack is a pass rushing 3-tech to take advantage of the 1 on 1 with the guard that the combination of a big double team eating 1-tech and a speedy edge rushing DE provide. Branch tends to sit there and sumo-wrestle with the guard and Jones (who I love) gets blown right out of the play if he doesn't win the battle on the first step. We need someone who's big enough to play in the middle and plug up the running lanes with some serious pass rush moves to get in the backfield on passing downs. I'm really hoping Scruggs can develop into that guy, but he's not there yet.

    We could probably take advantage of the gaps created by the double team on the 1-tech and the sumo fight with the 3-tech to blitz a LB or a safety, but that's not really Pete's MO. He wants pressure with the front 4 alone and we're not going to get that without a BIG upgrade at 3-tech.


    :13: I couldn't have said this better myself.

    I voted Allen btw. I don't think we can risk Clemons not coming back at full strength next season and beyond. If it turns out we can't significantly upgrade the 3 tech position, then we're gonna need a significant upgrade at the LEO to get the pass rush necessary for Red to not be a liability and to properly unleash Irvin.
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  • Allen and Umenwhatever are both getting up there in years and I can't really see them having a huge impact; just an overpriced contract for a year or two of mediocre twilight-career play. No thanks.
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  • 12th_Bob wrote:Really, if we could unload Flynn's contract then spending to upgrade the defensive line while maintaining the cap for future contracts becomes possible. I think Osi could be a perfect LEO, even his age, a smaller and shorter contract while we wait for Clemons to come back 100% then we could draft and develop more interior depth and Irvin. If we just want to add an interior DT 3 tech and spend the big money, Melton is young and could be an asset for years inside. I would imaging we unloaded Flynn and restructured or released Red or Clemons in that scenario, as much as I love what Red brings and Clemons there is no guarantee Clemons comes back as good as he has been the last three seasons and Bryant makes the most of all our defensive players while probably not nearly as good as Wagner, Sherman, or Thomas in terms of production.

    Adding Melton inside with Mebane and Irvin/Scruggs on the outside + drafting a few DE's with a Branch resigning to a reasonable contract looks a lot better on the books going forward. We could even add Osi on top of that and suddenly the front seven is in better shape in terms of pass rush and run stopping.


    Now Henry Melton would be my dream add through FA as well ... but the problem with the idea of actually adding him is the fact that the Bears will most likely Franchise him. Now Randy Starks is an intriguing option ... and I wouldn't be opposed whatsoever to the idea of adding both Umenyiora and Starks. Those could be quite do-able.

    What you're saying about Clemons is exactly correct. There is no guarantee with him whatsoever that he'll be ready for training camp and that even when (or if) he comes back he's even close to the same player. That process generally takes between 9-12 months and even then ... what are the Hawks going to get back? That's why I honestly believe that the Seahawks have to seriously look at (and plan for) the real possibility that we never see the same Chris Clemons ever again.
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  • Jared would look nice in a hawk uniform.
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  • Why would you trade for Allen and use up basically ALL your cap for one guy? Makes no sense. I know our pass rush is an issue.. but unless he'd look to restructure his deal.. no thanks. I'd rather use that cap to lock up some of our own + add a nice WR/DT
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  • Henry Melton and draft a pass rushing lineback (ala Von Miller) to replace Leroy.
    I would consider adding a Michael Bennett as well. A big MAYBE to Osi depending on his demands, but extending contracts to our two safeties has to be priority #1.
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  • In a perfect world I would want Melton and Allen on the team. But the reality is that the cost would be too prohibitive unless they both were willing to take very cap friendly deals. So since that is unlikely I would put the money to our real need.

    That is for a 3tech DT who will collapse the pocket and flush out the QB so our ends can destroy him. In other words Melton. He is exactly what this team needs for our D-Line. If he is not possible then get Starks for a few years. He still has enough left in the tank and probably would love to come to a team that is Super Bowl bound for the next few years.

    But to the Op question, I chose Osi because he is the most reasonable choice and would not break the bank to get him.
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  • CANHawk wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:Our problem isn't really a lack of pass-rushing DEs. It's lack of a monster DT to eat double teams. Most of the teams that have a great pass rush have that in common. Plus, both of these guys will be 31 to start next season; I don't want to sign another aging vet who will under-perform for us.


    I kinda disagree. I agree in spirit; pressure up the middle is the missing piece of the puzzle, but I don't think the answer is a monster like you've described.

    I think we have plenty of big strong DT's who can command double teams from the 1-tech spot. Mebane does it with regularity but Red or Branch could likely do it too. No, what we lack is a pass rushing 3-tech to take advantage of the 1 on 1 with the guard that the combination of a big double team eating 1-tech and a speedy edge rushing DE provide. Branch tends to sit there and sumo-wrestle with the guard and Jones (who I love) gets blown right out of the play if he doesn't win the battle on the first step. We need someone who's big enough to play in the middle and plug up the running lanes with some serious pass rush moves to get in the backfield on passing downs. I'm really hoping Scruggs can develop into that guy, but he's not there yet.

    We could probably take advantage of the gaps created by the double team on the 1-tech and the sumo fight with the 3-tech to blitz a LB or a safety, but that's not really Pete's MO. He wants pressure with the front 4 alone and we're not going to get that without a BIG upgrade at 3-tech.


    Eh, I'm not sure I agree that we have anybody like that. The kind of DT I'm referring to gets pressure every time they're left 1-on-1, and sometimes even 2-on-1. You really need two D-linemen like that to get pressure like the Rams, because the 5 O-linemen vs. the 4 D-linemen still allows for a double team without giving up much pressure. We've got some guys that are good at staying in place, which is where the run defense strength we used to have came from, but we don't have any big D-lineman who will bust through to pressure the QB. We have some guys that are hard to move, but there's a big difference between that and the kind of athletic DT that can still bust in up the gut towards the QB, pushing his man in front of him.
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  • No to Jared Allen. He's the type of DE who sells out to get the QB, leaving huge running lanes behind him. Umeniyora, maybe.
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  • Jared Allen for sure if Seattle could work out reasonable compensation. It would be tough keeping Allen after 2013, but we could make it work cap wise for one season. Probably an expensive rental, but worth it.

    Cliff Avril should be an option as well. Sounds like Detroit doesn't have the money to keep him.

    Would be fine with Osi, and I suspect Seattle will at least consider him. I think Seattle is spying short term contracts this spring.
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  • Another thing to consider in acquiring Allen by moving Matt Flynn.. the Vikings aren't a bad team right now, and that's with major issues at QB.. how good would you make them by sending them Matt Flynn?
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