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 Post subject: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:01 am 
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I am a little dismayed. Last year I was excited for players like Irvin, Kuechly, Upshaw, Hightower, Kendricks, David, and McClellin (as a LB). Even some of the boring prospects (Bobby Wagner) looked a lot better than the "fast" linebackers I've seen so far. Having looked at every LB that is a considered a likely top 60 pick in 2013, I am not falling in love with any of them.

Alec Ogletree is beginning to remind me of Kam Chancellor the more I watch him (hot/cold games, both are 6'3" 232 pounds, similar tackling style, similar coverage liability, Ogletree is a converted safety). There is a big difference though- Ogletree is far less physical. I don't think Seattle is looking for a downhill type at WLB, and if they are, I'd sooner move Chancellor there than burn a first on Ogletree. I think the Seahawks want a more well rounded player, ideally.

Someone like Arthur Brown. Problem is, Brown isn't very physical and doesn't have the best tape. And after these two, the options fall off fast.

Dion Jordan could make an intriguing option if Seattle views him as the league's weirdest 4-3 LB. It seems unlikely he'd reach our pick though.

Jelani Jenkins looks like a UDFA on tape. Great speed, but man, does he get pushed around. Might need to convert to safety.

Khasim Greene fits what Seattle is looking for, but I'd generously call his tape 4th round caliber. I'd probably rate at least 7 LBs from 2012 ahead of him.

Gerald Hodges is a player I really, really like, but is he fast enough? I am not sure. I'd draft him in a heartbeat in round 2 if PC thought Hodges speed is enough. Hodges reminds me of CJ Mosely.

Sean Porter is decently fast and is one of the better fast linebackers this draft. In some ways, he's a mix of Bobby Wagner and KJ Wright. Screams PC type LB.

Chase Thomas is more DE than LB, and his speed would be average at best by LB standards.

Michael Clay is awesome, but is he big enough to play LB in the NFL? Most would say no. I still like him as a strong safety convert (or maybe compete for Jeron Johnson's job). And if he Russell Wilson's his way into proving the doubters wrong about his size he'd be the ideal WLB for our defense. He's got that same "it" factor that Lavonte David had last year. David was 2 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier though, and was undersized even then.

Most of the LB's I like in this draft are more quick than fast: Tom Wort, Kiko Alonso, etc. Not sure Seattle would consider them.

-

Pass rushers and safeties are also a thin group. I have faith that our FO can get it done, but this year will be more of a challenge than last year for finding defense that fits our scheme. It wouldn't surprise me if Seattle goes offense in round one (excellent value for WR/ and possibly TE) or trades down before selecting defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:48 am 
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I like the way you are thinking here.

The unique quality our linebackers have to have is speed. Colin Kaepernick demands it. There is no option.

I am using parameters like length, coverage instincts, and squared up tackling if I see speed.

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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:08 am 
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Anybody taken a look at Traverdo Williams?

Decent size for the WILL at 6-1 235ish and with Zach Brown speed. Put up some pretty good stats in the Big East past few years, but the thing I like about him when *Mike Mayock Voice* I throw in the tape, is he lines up at the DLine most often and rushes the passer effectively. Granted he can get manhandled by bigger OT's but can get to the QB quite effectively. Possible 3rdi-sh round pick?



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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:32 am 
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Kearly, I think it was you that mentioned the biggest off season need is LEO. The reason I bring it up is because of Chase Thomas. Right now he is already as big or bigger than Irvin. I am not good at breaking down film at all but does he have the frame to add 10 pounds and still be an effective pass rusher? It would be a luxury to have a LEO who also has the ability to drop back into coverage to keep the opposition guessing.


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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:38 am 
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Somewhere Schneider said there some good Jr. LB's this year. Hmm. wonder who he was talking about.

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Last edited by Wenhawk on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:11 am 
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Sign a stop gap for this year and draft Andrew Jackson, WKU in 2014. Problem solved.


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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:27 am 
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kearly, any chance that the Seahawks view Dion Jordan as their answer to Mathias Kiwanuka of the Giants? I see a lot of similarities between the two and Kiwi actually turned into a pretty fine LB despite his size. He's always battled injuries, but maybe Jordan is more durable? It's true, the Giants do sometimes use Kiwi at DE in their "NASCAR" package or on obvious passing downs, but maybe Jordan can fill the same type of role with the Hawks? What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:12 pm 
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I am very curious about Kevin Minter (prob 2nd or 3rd round) or Keith Pough (late rounds / UDFA). Not done a lot of investigation yet, but both seem to be intriguing prospects. The true value at the LB position may be a bit later in this draft.....


Last edited by Spleenhawk2.0 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:18 pm 
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Worth noting Schneider on ESPN710 praised the junior linebackers who declared for this draft. There's only four. Jenkins, Wort, Ogletree and Minter.

Personally, I think Ogletree would be a dream for this defense. And I think that's really what Schneider was kind of referring to. But he won't be there at 25. No chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:32 pm 
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Really wonder if Dion Jordan could be a target. He has played TE then moved to defense and played more of a stand up rusher OLB role but was able to pressure the passer. If they think he can still play OLB and cover TE plus rush as a stand up end in Clemons spot while Clemons is out then that makes a lot of sense for Seattle.

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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:50 pm 
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Just a random question for the random thinker, is moving Bruce Irvin out to the OLB position and use him like Von Miller even a possibility? Meaning does bruce show any of the skills or gumption to pull that off?. The reason I ask is, I've got this impending feeling that JS/PC were very disappointed in his performance in the fulltime role. I thought we got a lot out of a rookie pass rusher 8.5 sacks for a rookie pass rusher is great IMO. When he was at WV they tried to put him in as a 3 down End and he did not do well. I'm not saying bust or anything, I am just saying is there a way to move him and use his speed to set him up for further or greater success could we get your analysis on the good/bad points or plausablity of this happening. Feel like I am rambling. Please pour out your wisdom upon us.
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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:56 pm 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
Worth noting Schneider on ESPN710 praised the junior linebackers who declared for this draft. There's only four. Jenkins, Wort, Ogletree and Minter.

Personally, I think Ogletree would be a dream for this defense. And I think that's really what Schneider was kind of referring to. But he won't be there at 25. No chance.


I really hope he wasn't referring to Jenkins. Wort is a great player, but fast enough? Ogletree I'd be okay with. Minter played MLB and isn't fast (and isn't all that great).

Of those players, I'd prefer Wort (could be a 3rd round steal). But I'm not sure Wort is fast enough.

Rob, you and I both know how their draft boards change over time. I won't name names, but you know exactly what I mean, I'm sure. Remember when we heard about how Kaepernick was ahead of Dalton on their draft board? The other day Schneider confessed to nearly drafting Dalton over Carpenter. So there will definitely be shakeups between now and draft day, and their glowing review for guys like Jenkins and Ogletree could change over the next 4 months.


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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:14 pm 
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Spleenhawk2.0 wrote:
I am very curious about Kevin Minter (prob 2nd or 3rd round) or Keith Pough (late rounds / UDFA). Not done a lot of investigation yet, but both seem to be intriguing prospects. The true value at the LB position may be a bit later in this draft.....


I don't think Minter would be an option. His field speed is very slow. I watched Pough earlier tonight, he was getting pushed around pretty badly by low level competition. He's fast, but that's about the only nice thing I can say about him.


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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:20 pm 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
Worth noting Schneider on ESPN710 praised the junior linebackers who declared for this draft. There's only four. Jenkins, Wort, Ogletree and Minter.

Personally, I think Ogletree would be a dream for this defense. And I think that's really what Schneider was kind of referring to. But he won't be there at 25. No chance.


I only watched Ogletree once this year... when they played Alabama. He looked terrible, lazy and completely uninterested in playing run defense. Maybe I just caught him on a bad day (and certainly against dominating opposition). But based on what I saw I would want no part of him.

**edit** just rewatched his tape from that game. Maybe he got injured or tired somewhere in the first half. because he looked pretty good in the first half, horrible with clear lack of effort in the 2nd.



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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:29 pm 
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kearly wrote:


Michael Clay is awesome, but is he big enough to play LB in the NFL? Most would say no. I still like him as a strong safety convert (or maybe compete for Jeron Johnson's job). And if he Russell Wilson's his way into proving the doubters wrong about his size he'd be the ideal WLB for our defense. He's got that same "it" factor that Lavonte David had last year. David was 2 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier though, and was undersized even then.


Interesting that you mentioned Russell Wilson when talking about Clay because I agree that Clay is kind of the Russell Wilson of linebackers. He's a competitor and a warrior and a leader, someone who will do whatever it takes. Insiders and people who are close to the Ducks program say that he is the best person to ever come through the program and he's a coaches dream. As a freshman, when the Ducks coaches went to draft their rosters for the Spring game he was the first player chosen.

He would very much be worth a late round pick. I'd take him anywhere from 5th to 7th round. My guess is that he'll have a career similar to ex-Seahawk Fredd Young. He'll start out as a star on special teams and be a very good linebacker when he finally gets the chance.

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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:30 pm 
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They are going into full bait mode now with combines and the draft here shortly. I say shortly as time is speeding by it seems lately, but I would not beleive anything said about any prospects of any depth. I would really look at the guys Quinn likes though if there is any tidbits he dropped prior to getting hired here again. I have a feeling his input will weigh significantly this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:35 am 
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kearly wrote:
Spleenhawk2.0 wrote:
I am very curious about Kevin Minter (prob 2nd or 3rd round) or Keith Pough (late rounds / UDFA). Not done a lot of investigation yet, but both seem to be intriguing prospects. The true value at the LB position may be a bit later in this draft.....


I don't think Minter would be an option. His field speed is very slow. I watched Pough earlier tonight, he was getting pushed around pretty badly by low level competition. He's fast, but that's about the only nice thing I can say about him.


I agree on Pough - was very disappointed. Not sure that I fully agree on Minter. His lateral speed is suspect, but his straight line speed seems a bit above average - especially for MLB. He lacks some quickness....he will be someone to watch at the Senior Bowl and combine for sure. Been seeing some rumblings that a handful of people are suggesting that he may go ABOVE Ogletree. Find that very heard to believe, but there are a number of people that swear by him


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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:47 am 
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I think linebacker is one of the hardest spots to scout just because there are some good ones on some pretty bad teams.

On Ogletree, he strikes me as an athlete playing linebacker. I noted a distinct lack of wanting to take it to opposing guards. Linebacker sometimes is about plugging, not tackling.

At the Shrine game yesterday, A J Klein from Iowa State looked real good. Instinctive, dirty worker, gets after the ball. I don't know how fast he is, I suspect not fast enough, but if he is...

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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:47 am 
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With the Teo issues.. Any chance he has a crazy slip and we have a shot at him at 25? Crazy aside.. The guy has talent.


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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:35 am 
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I haven't got a chance to check up on him yet but, I think his name is Jordan Campbell. He played for PC and Norton Jr. at USC then transfered to New Mexico, seen him lifting some weights and think he's a real try hard/ has the rigth frame to play LBer.

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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:39 am 
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JSeahawks wrote:
Maybe he got injured or tired somewhere in the first half. because he looked pretty good in the first half, horrible with clear lack of effort in the 2nd.


Watch this. Spectacular performance.



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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Anyone know if there is a stream or torrent for the East-West Shrine game?



Jordan Campbell looks legit, and comes with the PC connection. Yeah, highlight reel and all that, but the athleticism, speed, and ability is definitely there. Could be someone to watch in the late rounds.


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 Post subject: Re: Not seeing a great draft for linebackers in the early rounds
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:08 pm 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
Watch this. Spectacular performance.


I think I've kind of reached the point where I don't want Seattle to take LB in round 1. I consider WR to be much more valuable than a 4-3 OLB, and I rate Hopkins very highly. I think a Hopkins/Rice duo would rival Jones/White for the best in the league. If Seattle took a high upside pass rusher that they LOVED over Hopkins/Ertz, I'd disagree with the pick, but I'd understand. With Ogletree and Brown, I like them for our defense, but they leave me with too many questions to make it worth that level of opportunity cost, plus the positional value.

Who is more valuable to our team? Wright/Wagner or Rice/Miller? I'd say the latter category easily. Granted, the need is more pronounced at LB and the 2013 draft is deeper for pass catchers. But that said, I rate Hopkins and Ertz so much higher than any realistic defensive player out there at #25. It will hurt watching Seattle pass on them.

Also, the more I see Ogletree the more I think he should put on weight and play as a 3-4 OLB. Even in his best games, nearly all of his value comes as a pass rusher and LOS attacker. Since Seattle tends to be less aggressive with their linebackers, his best attribute could be wasted on us. Even though I rate Ogletree much higher than Brown, I suspect Seattle would have Brown higher on their board because he's more of a sideline to sideline type, and I think that's what they want above all else.


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