He also had over twice as many tackles and almost twice as many sacks.

Irvin certainly has Smith type potential, but it might take til year 4 or 5 for that to happen. Smith was a much more polished DE coming out of Missouri, even as young as he was.......which is pretty scary.

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If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.

Point is, he was still a part-timer. He developed. No, Irvin isn't on his level yet - and may never be - but the way SF has brought Smith along suggests that a part-time player who was identified as a pass rush specialist can develop into an every down player and expand his repertoire.

There are some folks in this thread who seem unwilling to give that same opportunity for development to Irvin, instead calling him a disappointment or bust or whatever right after he set a Seahawks rookie record for sacks. I wonder if some of these folks are the same ones who were prepared to declare Russell Okung a bust and made of glass after his rookie season, or who decided Max Unger was useless after his first year.

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Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Or James Carpenter. Or Koren Robinson. Or Chris McIntosh. Or Owen Gill.

(Don't get mad at me, bro. Remember, I picked #2.)

I wouldn't put Irvin in Either of those player groupings.

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"Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk

If Bruce's Twitter is any indication, he's VERY dedicated and passionate about getting better and proving the draft-day doubters wrong. Anyway, are we really going to pick apart these guys' interview demeanors now? Geez, would hate to see what you guys would say about Marshawn.

Bruce had a very good year. His presence was felt and he contributed. Came up huge on two plays in a wildcard PLAYOFF game. Seems the PC/JS regime's drafting success is leading some onlookers to get mighty spoiled and entitled. It's like a guy is deemed an immediate bust if they aren't a top 3 DROY or OROY candidate. Give these guys a chance to develop and appreciate their immediate contributions. Who knows what kind of career Bruce will have, but he showed some early promise in year one. Don't know how you can deny that.

I wouldn't, either, honestly, because it's far too early to determine, imo.

We hear all the time about "the rookie wall" or about it taking time for rookies to adjust to the speed of the NFL, or to develop the body mass necessary to really excel. So if a rookie struggles to make a significant impact - even if they're a 1st rounder - I tend to see that more as something not really surprising, but par for the course. It's awesome when we find a rookie who shines rather than struggles, but usually they do a bit of both. And Irvin did have moments where he shined this year, just like he had moments where he struggled.

In the end, I just don't think you can accurately predict whether a player is a scrub or a star in just their first year unless you're dealing with a clear outlier (like Wilson). I think each player needs time with the team for development, both physically and in his understanding of the scheme, to really find out what we have in him.

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Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Of course. You are absolutely right.

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"Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk

I'm with ya. I just don't like all the "OMG IRVIN'S THE BEST EVER PICK AND NO OTHER D-LINEMAN WOULD HAVE BEEN AS GOOD ON OUR TEAM!!!!!!!!" mentality.

The fact is just about any of the other DL picks in the top 20 would have done well on our line. What we're banking on is the potential of Irvin being great.........as opposed to just serviceable.

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If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.

I believe he'll do fine, he just needs to work on his technique.

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Jeez, I would hope by now that people would understand that he was a raw player with great speed coming in, with still being raw he provided pressure a lot and got his sacks. Having Quinn here I think will unleash the beast that we will see for years to come. He has the right attitude and skills that you can't coach. Speed and a desire to prove himself and people wrong.

With Quinn here he will be double digit next year I would bank on it. I also expect to see him stronger and bigger by a few more pungds. I think I read he put on 15 to 20 more from his college weight. That alone is hard for a guy to assimulate and continue to perform at a high level. With training and technique we will see him be much more comfortable at that weight and he will regain more of his burst.

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Call it what you wanna call it... Rookie hangover.. Rookie Wall... 2nd year slump... But if there is any player who I think that will happen to, it's Bruce Irvin. I am basing this on his visible personality and work ethic. I think he will be a letdown next year but will eventually develop into a solid player in a few years.

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'

Jesus... Why are you so condescending?

I think "themunn" was actually following your posts the best they could have possibly been followed. Actually, wait.. He went back and quoted most of your posts to prove it.. This one - Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:11 pm.. Didn't see that, my bad.

Just relax a bit man. Seems to me like you attack the poster rather than respond to their actual post. Not all the time, but from this thread, that's what it looks like.

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~ The Stache'

You missed more than that, but I am not going to get into it here. I am done with this particular thread. If you want to have this kind of conversation (or share other concerns about my internet identity) Id be happy to sort it out via PM.

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"Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk

I think you will see Bruce round into a more complete player next year. He might not have more or as many sacks, but will be a much better every down player. The kid had a great rookie year and I think that we will see him continue to grow.

Couldn't read 5 pages of this discussion. Sorry.

I picked good rookie, will improve next year.

While I will never say something as stupid as "sacks don't matter" I do believe that fans, in general, overrate sacks while not seeing other attributes that players bring to the table. Also, there seems to be an undercurrent of "he was drafted here, so he should be this productive by now" in many fan opinions. And usually, their idea of what "productive" means can vary a lot. I'm thankful that our coaches and FO have their own criteria to evaluate players and make decisions about who to cut or not.

I feel about Irvin about like I felt about Tate all along. Give him some time.

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Talent can get you to the playoffs.
It takes character to win when you get there.

Let's keep it civil here, folks.

Irvin had a pretty decent year, especially considering the limited role he had. It's easy to second guess and post-season armchair quarterback the draft picks. Irvin is arguably not even the first or second best player taken by his own team, with the stunning success of Wagner and Wilson, but hindsight's 20/20, isn't that right, Mel Kiper?

You can find a bunch of rookies taken after him and make the point he was a reach/bust. But you can also find rookies taken before him and argue the opposite.

And as far as the bottom line goes, he's nowhere close to the worst first rounder we've taken. The pick was a bit of a head-scratcher when he was viewed by the front office as the best pick available at a position of need, but he's no Aaron Curry.

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