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Bruce Irvin's Performance this year (SEA #1 Pick)
1. Bad. look for someone better in Draft 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
2. Descent, but Should not have been 1st pick 34%  34%  [ 59 ]
3. Good, for his rookie year. He should be great next year. 55%  55%  [ 95 ]
4. Great. Worth 1st Pick, was the right choice 8%  8%  [ 13 ]
Total votes : 172
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 Post subject: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:52 am 
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Sup 12th man, its your boy Freshly Snipes (Rxstr8 on YouTube). I am currently working the 12 steps of SA (Seahawks Anonymous) and seeking acceptance. This being said, I still look back on the Season and cannot be happier. Im not going to lie, I was skeptical of RW3 starting over Matt Flynn but I believed and supported in Pete Carroll and John Schneider's decision to go with Russell Wilson. I am so excited for our future with Russell Wilson in control, this is just the beginning of a dynasty!

I want to talk about Bruce Irvin.... these are my thoughts/ concerns:

- Bruce Irvin has the Potential to be hella sick BUT.....

- Irvin Had a decent rookie year, but he did not step up when it came down to it (AKA Starting vs. Atlanta).

- His attitude in interviews and videos seems nonchalant and careless to say the least.

- He looked tired/lazy during the Atlanta Game.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:34 am 
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- His attitude in interviews and videos seems nonchalant and careless to say the least.


I never got that vibe at all, I see a guy desperate to prove himself to the world.

I think he had a great rookie year, 8 sacks is no joke, even if he couldn't do much more - Von Miller had 11.5 as a rookie as an every down player for a defense that was on the field a LOT, and he's considered one of the best pass rushers in the league.

We all knew he was raw coming into the league, but then again Bruce Smith only had 6.5 sacks his rookie year


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:02 am 
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He's got a high ceiling but needs to develop quickly. He's had a good rookie year but hit a wall and struggle in the later part of the season. Another full offseason under his belt and we should see how he develops. He does have the risk that he won't develop any further but regardless I'll happily take 6-10 sacks a season as a situational pass rusher even if he was a first round pick.

As for interviews I don't think he's careless or nonchalant he just doesn't interview well, some guys do great interviews and have great camera/radio presence and some just don't.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:08 am 
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If he can add a bit more muscle and a swim move this offseason, QB's are in trouble.

Dude got 9 sacks pretty much based off his speed alone.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:06 am 
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FreshlySnipes wrote:
- Bruce Irvin has the Potential to be hella sick BUT.....


Yes, yes he does, but probably always in a situational role... at least for the foreseeable future.

FreshlySnipes wrote:
- Irvin Had a decent rookie year, but he did not step up when it came down to it (AKA Starting vs. Atlanta).


Atlanta did a good job against him, and took him out of his game by running so effectively early on. Seemed like Irvin got caught up in selling out to defend the run - especially since this was the first time the team was leaning on him to be an all-around DE instead of just a pass rusher. Trying to do more than he was prepared to do.

FreshlySnipes wrote:
- His attitude in interviews and videos seems nonchalant and careless to say the least.


:34853_doh:

FreshlySnipes wrote:
- He looked tired/lazy during the Atlanta Game.


Tired, most definitely. It was the first time he was playing that much of a game, and I think lots of folks expected him to wear down as a result.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:33 am 
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According to his second half stats, teams have figured out how to stop Bruce. Hes got to switch up his technique or I definitely see a soph slump incoming.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:39 am 
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scifly wrote:
According to his second half stats, teams have figured out how to stop Bruce. Hes got to switch up his technique or I definitely see a soph slump incoming.


You talking about when his 3rd down running mate Jones went out?

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:44 am 
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8 sacks, a FF and 20 solo tackles for a guy that got very limited playing time. I don't know why people are so worried, and further more people calling him a bust already.

He's going to get stronger and faster. I'm sure the D line coach will be having Irvin packing on some weight (lean muscle so he can keep his speed).

The thing is, speedy type DE's rarely dominate the NFL. It takes more balanced guys, with speed and power. Bruce has the speed. He's faster than any defensive lineman in the league. He just needs to work hard this off-season and get some power underneath him. He can't push those big O-lineman back, so he has to beat them around the edge. Which is tough because although offensive tackles are big and much slower than him, they can move laterally pretty damn quickly. All they need to do is push Irvin off balance on his way around the edge and he's totally out of the play.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:55 am 
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I think he was productive and brought pressure consistently when he was on the field. i believe he did what was asked of him, but JS/PC have hit big on so many draft choices who have produced at a high level early that I for one have been spoiled! I expect anybody they pick to step onto the field and play lights out, dominating football! That hasn't been the case here, so I feel a little let down by the lack of "sizzle" plays.

I think Pete likely knew Bruce would be a work in progress, but didn't want to chance losing him by waiting until the second round. I have faith in what our FO does, but a small niggling part of me still is whispering "why didn't they pick Chandler Jones?"


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:13 am 
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Zowert wrote:
8 sacks, a FF and 20 solo tackles for a guy that got very limited playing time. I don't know why people are so worried, and further more people calling him a bust already.

He's going to get stronger and faster. I'm sure the D line coach will be having Irvin packing on some weight (lean muscle so he can keep his speed).

The thing is, speedy type DE's rarely dominate the NFL. It takes more balanced guys, with speed and power. Bruce has the speed. He's faster than any defensive lineman in the league. He just needs to work hard this off-season and get some power underneath him. He can't push those big O-lineman back, so he has to beat them around the edge. Which is tough because although offensive tackles are big and much slower than him, they can move laterally pretty damn quickly. All they need to do is push Irvin off balance on his way around the edge and he's totally out of the play.


Mel Kiper's still in their ear?

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:27 am 
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Throwdown wrote:
Zowert wrote:
8 sacks, a FF and 20 solo tackles for a guy that got very limited playing time. I don't know why people are so worried, and further more people calling him a bust already.

He's going to get stronger and faster. I'm sure the D line coach will be having Irvin packing on some weight (lean muscle so he can keep his speed).

The thing is, speedy type DE's rarely dominate the NFL. It takes more balanced guys, with speed and power. Bruce has the speed. He's faster than any defensive lineman in the league. He just needs to work hard this off-season and get some power underneath him. He can't push those big O-lineman back, so he has to beat them around the edge. Which is tough because although offensive tackles are big and much slower than him, they can move laterally pretty damn quickly. All they need to do is push Irvin off balance on his way around the edge and he's totally out of the play.


Mel Kiper's still in their ear?


Or maybe we have eyes and can see that he gets destroyed on 95% of plays and forces the team to play 10 on 11 football against the run.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:29 am 
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I didn't see that Irvin was lazy. He gives up a lot of size and is a speed player and it wears on him. The NFL plays a longer season and it shows on the younger guys. He only plays part time and did pretty well in that role. Lets give him a couple years and see how he does.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:31 am 
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Besides being a QB or a MLB becoming a productive rush DE is one of the toughest things to accomplish in the NFL. Irvin had excellent production as a rookie which seems to be overlooked by the negative thinkers about him here. It often takes a while for a player to figure out the moves needed to consistently succeed. Meanwhile this rookie got 8 sacks, put on consistent pressure with 20 solo tackles and a forced fumble. Oh, besides that he 's fast as blazes, you can't teach that, and about to go into his second season in an NFL weights program which should help his run game. The negative folks need to recognize this kid has legit talent and we've only seen the beginnings.

I'd not be surprised if he added some weight this offseason. He had a good if not excellent rookie campaign and will likely be much improved next season. If the team acquires an interior pass rush to flush the opposing QBs from the pocket Irvin is going to light it up.

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Last edited by jammerhawk on Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:32 am 
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At this point, he doesn't seem worth the pick. He has time to change that perception. I understand that. Wagner has performance value equal to Irvin's draft position, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:35 am 
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Tough crowd to please around here, really disagree as to the negative thinking on Irvin. Maybe he'll be a Leo and maybe not, but he will be an improved pass rusher next season.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:43 am 
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jammerhawk wrote:
Tough crowd to please around here, really disagree as to the negative thinking on Irvin. Maybe he'll be a Leo and maybe not, but he will be an improved pass rusher next season.



The issue is whether or not he was worth the 15th pick in the draft. Great pass rushers are usually great right away(Miller, Aldon, Ware, Watt etc) it's disconcerting to have to have a wait and hope "maybe" mindset about such a high pick. He just isn't a player teams have to account for right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:47 am 
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Throwdown wrote:
If he can add a bit more muscle and a swim move this offseason, QB's are in trouble.

Dude got 9 sacks pretty much based off his speed alone.


And he got those 9 in a very limited role. Great rookie season if you ask me, and it usually takes 2 or 3 years for DE's to get cranked up. Quinn will help him a LOT.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:51 am 
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bestfightstory wrote:
At this point, he doesn't seem worth the pick. He has time to change that perception. I understand that. Wagner has performance value equal to Irvin's draft position, IMO.


It could be said that all of the DEs from the 2012 draft didn't really seem worth where they were picked, honestly.

As for sacks, Irvin had as many sacks this year as the next two selections (Coples, McClellin) combined. And he did it playing a situational role.

He may never be an every-down player, but if he can help the team get off the field on 3rd downs with regularity in the future, I'd say it's a pick well spent. So far, 5.5 of his 8 sacks came on 3rd down to end an opponent's drive, and one of the others was on 2nd down that forced a fumble recovered by the Seahawks.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:55 am 
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He played part time, only one start, and was the league rookie sacks leader. This in a scheme where his talents arguably may have been better employed as a Leo but there was a better candidate already on the team. A bit more seasoning and more opportunity along with a complimentary DLine and we'll see great things from Bruce.

Some patience and perspective regarding regarding him and his rookie season is required, I'm quite sure the team was pleased with his rookie season even if a few here think he wasn't worth the pick. BTW how did the other rookie pass rushers from the draft pan out? Seems to me the Hawks got the best guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:57 am 
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TJH wrote:
jammerhawk wrote:
Tough crowd to please around here, really disagree as to the negative thinking on Irvin. Maybe he'll be a Leo and maybe not, but he will be an improved pass rusher next season.



The issue is whether or not he was worth the 15th pick in the draft. Great pass rushers are usually great right away(Miller, Aldon, Ware, Watt etc) it's disconcerting to have to have a wait and hope "maybe" mindset about such a high pick. He just isn't a player teams have to account for right now.


Von Miller as a rookie: 11.5 sacks
Aldon Smith as a rookie: 14.0 sacks
Demarcus Ware as a rookie: 8.0 sacks
J.J. Watt as a rookie: 5.5 sacks
Elvis Dumervil as a rookie: 8.5 sacks
Jason Pierre-Paul as a rookie: 4.5 sacks
Osi Umenyiora as a rookie: 1.0 sack

Reggie White as a rookie: 13.0 sacks
Michael Strahan as a rookie: 1.0 sack (4.5 in his first full season)

Bruce Irvin as a rookie: 8.0 sacks

---

Yeah, great pass rushers aren't "usually" great right away. It varies a bit, depending on the player and the system into which they've been inserted. But even if we accept the premise, seems that Irvin is on a Dumervil/Ware type of schedule. Sucks a lot, huh?

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:00 am 
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A lot of people like throw in the towel as soon as possible. Carroll and now Quinn are focused on developing their young talent, and they're going to stick by Irvin until he shows that he's not developing or not interested in it. And they certainly wouldn't be tossing him onto the field with regularity if he was showing zero interest in getting better. Patience, please.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:23 am 
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Only 3 people voted 'bad'.

Relax Irvinites.

Most of us have a realistic and tempered approach to this.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:26 am 
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bestfightstory wrote:
Only 3 people voted 'bad'.

Relax Irvinites.

Most of us have a realistic and tempered approach to this.


Irvinites? Really?

It might be one thing if there were folks here proclaiming that he's going to rewrite record books. But most people are just providing info and offering context (context like, "yeah, he was the first DE drafted... good thing he got the most sacks of any DE drafted, right?").

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:29 am 
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TJH wrote:
jammerhawk wrote:
Tough crowd to please around here, really disagree as to the negative thinking on Irvin. Maybe he'll be a Leo and maybe not, but he will be an improved pass rusher next season.



The issue is whether or not he was worth the 15th pick in the draft. Great pass rushers are usually great right away(Miller, Aldon, Ware, Watt etc) it's disconcerting to have to have a wait and hope "maybe" mindset about such a high pick. He just isn't a player teams have to account for right now.


He lead all rookie pass rushers in sacks. What other pass rusher would you have wanted at 15?

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:32 am 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
TJH wrote:
jammerhawk wrote:
Tough crowd to please around here, really disagree as to the negative thinking on Irvin. Maybe he'll be a Leo and maybe not, but he will be an improved pass rusher next season.



The issue is whether or not he was worth the 15th pick in the draft. Great pass rushers are usually great right away(Miller, Aldon, Ware, Watt etc) it's disconcerting to have to have a wait and hope "maybe" mindset about such a high pick. He just isn't a player teams have to account for right now.


He lead all rookie pass rushers in sacks. What other pass rusher would you have wanted at 15?


Your assumption is Bruce Irvin vs all other rookie DEs. There were other options at that pick, including trading back.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:34 am 
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bestfightstory wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
TJH wrote:


The issue is whether or not he was worth the 15th pick in the draft. Great pass rushers are usually great right away(Miller, Aldon, Ware, Watt etc) it's disconcerting to have to have a wait and hope "maybe" mindset about such a high pick. He just isn't a player teams have to account for right now.


He lead all rookie pass rushers in sacks. What other pass rusher would you have wanted at 15?


Your assumption is Bruce Irvin vs all other rookie DEs. There were other options at that pick, including trading back.


Carroll and Schneider already said they weren't going to risk trading back with that pick.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:36 am 
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I understand that Carroll and Schneider said that, it doesn't take evaluating/critiquing their decision for conversation's sake off the table.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:36 am 
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I was not impressed with him this year and don't think his stats paint a very appropriate picture unless you look at the game-by-game lines. But, I think he should be capable of growing into the pick and his role, I'm not concerned about him.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:41 am 
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Bruce Irvin does not work well as a lone pass rusher. Clemons could handle it but Irvin couldn't (see Atlanta). We need pressure in the middle and on the other side to smoke out QBs and then Irvin's speed to go in for the kill. That's my dream anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:48 am 
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I think most people forget that this kid started playing football at a higher level late in his life (relatively). 99% of NFL players have spent every year of their life, starting from little league, playing football. Irvin spent his young adult years on the streets, selling drugs, and dealing with a different reality than most here can fathom. I believe he has only had 1 season of major college football under his belt before he was thrust into the big boy league. I don't know what Irvin's football IQ is, but I have to believe that he is a bit behind the game. I think the bulb will finally light for him and he will dominate. Worst case scenario is that it never lights and he simply gets 6-8 sacks a year because of his speed, in a situational pass rusher role. That wouldn't be too bad for the hawks. Point is that his POTENTIAL is exciting.

No need to panic about this kid just yet. If nothing else he's already shown his ability to succeed when life tried to beat him down. If the trend continues on the field then the hawks will have a gem...

Go Hawks!

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:00 am 
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TJH wrote:
Throwdown wrote:
Zowert wrote:
8 sacks, a FF and 20 solo tackles for a guy that got very limited playing time. I don't know why people are so worried, and further more people calling him a bust already.

He's going to get stronger and faster. I'm sure the D line coach will be having Irvin packing on some weight (lean muscle so he can keep his speed).

The thing is, speedy type DE's rarely dominate the NFL. It takes more balanced guys, with speed and power. Bruce has the speed. He's faster than any defensive lineman in the league. He just needs to work hard this off-season and get some power underneath him. He can't push those big O-lineman back, so he has to beat them around the edge. Which is tough because although offensive tackles are big and much slower than him, they can move laterally pretty damn quickly. All they need to do is push Irvin off balance on his way around the edge and he's totally out of the play.


Mel Kiper's still in their ear?


Or maybe we have eyes and can see that he gets destroyed on 95% of plays and forces the team to play 10 on 11 football against the run.


95% !?!? That would mean the other 5% he had a sack or solo tackle. Other than Howard, Bruce Irvin has the least amount of playing time among D-linemen. He would only get a handful of plays a game, except during the three blowout games we had. So basically what you're saying is that Irvin's play is black and white. He can't just do his job, that he's either getting destroyed or making a big play.

I doubt when you're watching a Seahawks game that you're focusing on Bruce Irvin the ENTIRE time. Most likely you happened to see him get pancaked or taken out of a play a few times and came to the conclusion that he's not getting the job done.

I'll admit, I use to do this all the time. Until one of my friends put me in my place by telling me there are 22 players on the field and its impossible to focus on every single one of them on every play. Quarterbacks are basically the only guy on the field you're watching every play. Unless you're a scout for an NFL team and you're at a college game to watch one particular player. But you/we are not. We're fans. So to say that you have eyes and they see Bruce Irvin getting destroyed on 95% of the plays he is on the field for is ridiculous...

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:07 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
TJH wrote:
jammerhawk wrote:
Tough crowd to please around here, really disagree as to the negative thinking on Irvin. Maybe he'll be a Leo and maybe not, but he will be an improved pass rusher next season.



The issue is whether or not he was worth the 15th pick in the draft. Great pass rushers are usually great right away(Miller, Aldon, Ware, Watt etc) it's disconcerting to have to have a wait and hope "maybe" mindset about such a high pick. He just isn't a player teams have to account for right now.


Von Miller as a rookie: 11.5 sacks
Aldon Smith as a rookie: 14.0 sacks
Demarcus Ware as a rookie: 8.0 sacks
J.J. Watt as a rookie: 5.5 sacks
Elvis Dumervil as a rookie: 8.5 sacks
Jason Pierre-Paul as a rookie: 4.5 sacks
Osi Umenyiora as a rookie: 1.0 sack

Reggie White as a rookie: 13.0 sacks
Michael Strahan as a rookie: 1.0 sack (4.5 in his first full season)

Bruce Irvin as a rookie: 8.0 sacks

---

Yeah, great pass rushers aren't "usually" great right away. It varies a bit, depending on the player and the system into which they've been inserted. But even if we accept the premise, seems that Irvin is on a Dumervil/Ware type of schedule. Sucks a lot, huh?


You really can't just look at the sacks statstic in a vacuum and expect it to tell you much. I would argue few pass rushers were as worthless as Bruce on the plays were they did not get a sack.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:09 am 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
TJH wrote:
jammerhawk wrote:
Tough crowd to please around here, really disagree as to the negative thinking on Irvin. Maybe he'll be a Leo and maybe not, but he will be an improved pass rusher next season.



The issue is whether or not he was worth the 15th pick in the draft. Great pass rushers are usually great right away(Miller, Aldon, Ware, Watt etc) it's disconcerting to have to have a wait and hope "maybe" mindset about such a high pick. He just isn't a player teams have to account for right now.


He lead all rookie pass rushers in sacks. What other pass rusher would you have wanted at 15?


I would rather take the best available player appropriate to the draft position and pursue a pass rusher in a different slot.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:13 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
TJH wrote:
jammerhawk wrote:
Tough crowd to please around here, really disagree as to the negative thinking on Irvin. Maybe he'll be a Leo and maybe not, but he will be an improved pass rusher next season.



The issue is whether or not he was worth the 15th pick in the draft. Great pass rushers are usually great right away(Miller, Aldon, Ware, Watt etc) it's disconcerting to have to have a wait and hope "maybe" mindset about such a high pick. He just isn't a player teams have to account for right now.


Von Miller as a rookie: 11.5 sacks
Aldon Smith as a rookie: 14.0 sacks
Demarcus Ware as a rookie: 8.0 sacks
J.J. Watt as a rookie: 5.5 sacks
Elvis Dumervil as a rookie: 8.5 sacks
Jason Pierre-Paul as a rookie: 4.5 sacks
Osi Umenyiora as a rookie: 1.0 sack

Reggie White as a rookie: 13.0 sacks
Michael Strahan as a rookie: 1.0 sack (4.5 in his first full season)

Bruce Irvin as a rookie: 8.0 sacks

---

Yeah, great pass rushers aren't "usually" great right away. It varies a bit, depending on the player and the system into which they've been inserted. But even if we accept the premise, seems that Irvin is on a Dumervil/Ware type of schedule. Sucks a lot, huh?


Irvin led all rookies with 8 sacks. So he was the best pass rusher from the 2012 draft. He will be a good one, if he keeps progressing and right now I don't see why he wouldn't progress.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:14 am 
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Zowert wrote:

95% !?!? That would mean the other 5% he had a sack or solo tackle. Other than Howard, Bruce Irvin has the least amount of playing time among D-linemen. He would only get a handful of plays a game, except during the three blowout games we had. So basically what you're saying is that Irvin's play is black and white. He can't just do his job, that he's either getting destroyed or making a big play.

I doubt when you're watching a Seahawks game that you're focusing on Bruce Irvin the ENTIRE time. Most likely you happened to see him get pancaked or taken out of a play a few times and came to the conclusion that he's not getting the job done.

I'll admit, I use to do this all the time. Until one of my friends put me in my place by telling me there are 22 players on the field and its impossible to focus on every single one of them on every play. Quarterbacks are basically the only guy on the field you're watching every play. Unless you're a scout for an NFL team and you're at a college game to watch one particular player. But you/we are not. We're fans. So to say that you have eyes and they see Bruce Irvin getting destroyed on 95% of the plays he is on the field for is ridiculous...


I watch each game usually 3 times whth a critical focus on different aspects each time. Don't assume you know anything about me or my viewing habits.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:16 am 
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lmaoo

You can't discount what Bruce has done in terms of sacks when he was brought in as a primary pass rusher, and a 3rd down specialist, all those guys with the exception of Aldon Smith I believe were every down guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:20 am 
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Bruce Irvin has a unique skillset with legit game changer level physical abilities. That's why he's on this team.

Now it's just a matter of Bruce acclimating to the NFL game (which is a whole lot different than where he came from) and the coaching staff finding the best way to maximize his talent. I know Pete claimed once that Bruce was the "ideal Leo", but... maybe he's not. Maybe he's never going to be a 3 down DE that can hang in there against the run, but if he's going to be in the backfield threatening to sack the QB on 2nd/3rd down and +5... I'll be okay with that. I can live with him being a situational pass rusher if he's getting to the quarterback. Dan Quinn is a D-line guru. He'll figure out how best to maximize Irvin's talents. I'm not worried. FWIW, I voted option 3.

Personally I believe he will figure out how to bet in the backfield while still sealing the edge against the run. He's a great athleate and I don't think he's stupid. He just doesn't have the experience that other players his age to. He's gotten by on being an athletic freak up until now, but it doesn't mean he won't learn. Regardless of what role he ultimately ends up playing, I think Bruce Irvin will be good for 10 sacks a year at minimum from now on.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:24 am 
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I think Irvin had a pretty good first year (particularly the first half of the year). But I'm thinking he may just stay in a specialized role unless he can improve in stopping the run. But I have no problem with him staying in a specialized role if he can get 8-9 sacks a year in it.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:28 am 
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TJH wrote:
volsunghawk wrote:
TJH wrote:
The issue is whether or not he was worth the 15th pick in the draft. Great pass rushers are usually great right away(Miller, Aldon, Ware, Watt etc) it's disconcerting to have to have a wait and hope "maybe" mindset about such a high pick. He just isn't a player teams have to account for right now.


Von Miller as a rookie: 11.5 sacks
Aldon Smith as a rookie: 14.0 sacks
Demarcus Ware as a rookie: 8.0 sacks
J.J. Watt as a rookie: 5.5 sacks
Elvis Dumervil as a rookie: 8.5 sacks
Jason Pierre-Paul as a rookie: 4.5 sacks
Osi Umenyiora as a rookie: 1.0 sack

Reggie White as a rookie: 13.0 sacks
Michael Strahan as a rookie: 1.0 sack (4.5 in his first full season)

Bruce Irvin as a rookie: 8.0 sacks

---

Yeah, great pass rushers aren't "usually" great right away. It varies a bit, depending on the player and the system into which they've been inserted. But even if we accept the premise, seems that Irvin is on a Dumervil/Ware type of schedule. Sucks a lot, huh?


You really can't just look at the sacks statstic in a vacuum and expect it to tell you much. I would argue few pass rushers were as worthless as Bruce on the plays were they did not get a sack.


You also really can't just trot out crap like "great pass rushers are usually great right away" when there's ample evidence that many guys who end up with very good career numbers often start out slow.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:35 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
You also really can't just trot out crap like "great pass rushers are usually great right away" when there's ample evidence that many guys who end up with very good career numbers often start out slow.



The guys that start out slow are generally the all-around players because they are asked to do much more. Dedicatied specialist rushers generally have been good from the start. Irvin is about as far away from an all-around player as you possibly could have.

I'm not saying he was terrible, but I do not think he warrants his draft position as of yet and can be a huge vulnerability out there. I just get annoyed with the people who just spout out "OMGERD 8 sacks best of the rookies!!1" like that means anything by itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:37 am 
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TJH wrote:
I would rather take the best available player appropriate to the draft position and pursue a pass rusher in a different slot.


He was the "best available player." Also you guys seem to forget we traded back with Philly and got more picks. So we were able to not only get the pass rusher we wanted we were able to get 2 more players. I beleive those were Jaye Howard and Winston Guy.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:44 am 
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jlwaters1 wrote:
TJH wrote:
I would rather take the best available player appropriate to the draft position and pursue a pass rusher in a different slot.


He was the "best available player."


Ummm that is obviously a matter of opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:57 am 
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TJH wrote:
volsunghawk wrote:
You also really can't just trot out crap like "great pass rushers are usually great right away" when there's ample evidence that many guys who end up with very good career numbers often start out slow.



The guys that start out slow are generally the all-around players because they are asked to do much more. Dedicatied specialist rushers generally have been good from the start. Irvin is about as far away from an all-around player as you possibly could have.

I'm not saying he was terrible, but I do not think he warrants his draft position as of yet and can be a huge vulnerability out there. I just get annoyed with the people who just spout out "OMGERD 8 sacks best of the rookies!!1" like that means anything by itself.


You're making no sense whatsoever. You say the great pass rushers start off fast. OK, we'll look at the list compiled by the other poster, he's comparable to virtually every single big time pass rusher. Only Aldon Smith, Von Miller, and Reggie White had better years. So it defeats your argument.

Futhermore to say "he wasn't worth the pick" is assinine. Who would "you" have picked. The pick is gone in any case, it's completely irrelevant at this point in time because it's now a sunk cost.
The fact is his production ranks him easily within the top 1/3 of the all the first round picks. So how does that make him "unworthy" of the pick?

The only 1st round rookies who were more impactfull were:

Luck, RG3, Doug Martin, Kalil, Harrison Smith, Kuechly, Zeitler, and then you could argue a few others like Trent Richardson, Mark Barron, Tannehill, ect..


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:02 am 
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He will work on his tecnique and add some meat in the offseason. I just hope he learns to slip some of the run blocks. He had a good year (voted #3).

My sig says all thats needed as far as his desire to excel.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:02 am 
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You guys are crazy. He led all rookies in sacks...He may not be the heir to the LEO throne, but he will be a 10.0 sacks guy per year, and that's definitely worth it. I also think Quinn will help him out. I honestly can't believe you guys sometimes... SMH

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:04 am 
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bestfightstory wrote:
jlwaters1 wrote:
TJH wrote:
I would rather take the best available player appropriate to the draft position and pursue a pass rusher in a different slot.


He was the "best available player."


Ummm that is obviously a matter of opinion.


But the only opinion that matters is PC and JS. He was the "best available player" according to the 2 poeple who spent countless hours dissecting all the top-end prospects in the draft. And your going to tell me that they were wrong, base on your cursory reasearch? That makes alot of sense. I think I'll trust PC and JS over a bunch of internet posters.

But out of curiosity, who do you suppose was "worthy" of the pick?


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:05 am 
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lukerguy wrote:
You guys are crazy. He led all rookies in sacks...He may not be the heir to the LEO throne, but he will be a 10.0 sacks guy per year, and that's definitely worth it. I also think Quinn will help him out. I honestly can't believe you guys sometimes... SMH


No doubt. Has Golden Tate taught us nothing about these knee jerk proclamations of "this guy's a bum!"? The bad draft picks that we've had; EJ Wilson, Mark Legree, Kris Durham have all been jettisoned with extreme prejudice. If a guy is no good he'll be gone, regardless of where he was drafted. If he's sticks around, the staff will bring out the talent.

Have faith padawans...

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:08 am 
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CANHawk wrote:
lukerguy wrote:
You guys are crazy. He led all rookies in sacks...He may not be the heir to the LEO throne, but he will be a 10.0 sacks guy per year, and that's definitely worth it. I also think Quinn will help him out. I honestly can't believe you guys sometimes... SMH


No doubt. Has Golden Tate taught us nothing about these knee jerk proclamations of "this guy's a bum!"? The bad draft picks that we've had; EJ Wilson, Mark Legree, Kris Durham have all been jettisoned with extreme prejudice. If a guy is no good he'll be gone, regardless of where he was drafted. If he's sticks around, the staff will bring out the talent.

Have faith padawans...


3 guys have voted "he's bad." 3 of 83 as of now. But you two can act like everyone here wants to cut him.

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:09 am 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
CANHawk wrote:
lukerguy wrote:
You guys are crazy. He led all rookies in sacks...He may not be the heir to the LEO throne, but he will be a 10.0 sacks guy per year, and that's definitely worth it. I also think Quinn will help him out. I honestly can't believe you guys sometimes... SMH


No doubt. Has Golden Tate taught us nothing about these knee jerk proclamations of "this guy's a bum!"? The bad draft picks that we've had; EJ Wilson, Mark Legree, Kris Durham have all been jettisoned with extreme prejudice. If a guy is no good he'll be gone, regardless of where he was drafted. If he's sticks around, the staff will bring out the talent.

Have faith padawans...


3 guys have voted "he's bad." 3 of 83 as of now. But you two can act like everyone here wants to cut him.


No, I'm just talking to those three guys. Gotsta smack that vocal minority into line sometimes...

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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:10 am 
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jlwaters1 wrote:
But the only opinion that matters is PC and JS. He was the "best available player" according to the 2 poeple who spent countless hours dissecting all the top-end prospects in the draft. And your going to tell me that they were wrong, base on your cursory reasearch? That makes alot of sense. I think I'll trust PC and JS over a bunch of internet posters.

But out of curiosity, who do you suppose was "worthy" of the pick?



Well. Russell Wilson and Bobby Wagner, for two.

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