Flynn to Jax?

SeaTown81 · Jan 17, 2013

MontanaHawk05":1kbtnga6 said:
Whether it's for our own QB hopes or now just our hopes of extra draft picks, this board continues to overrate Flynn's quality and I just don't understand why.

Pretty simple. They're fans. Be it Matt Flynn or Charlie Whitehurst, they want to believe they have unearthed the next big find. Had Flynn signed with Arizona, the exact same fans would have downplayed his two starts in GB. But he signed here, so those two games meant the world. Exact same rationale applies to his trade value. Whatever fits the best interests of the Hawks is where the thinking goes. Of course our backup qb is the only option for teams that need a starter. And of course this draft class is now considered one of the worst ever. lol. It's what fans do.

mikeak · Jan 17, 2013

T-Sizzle":2en8zv04 said:
HawkFan72":2en8zv04 said:

pehawk":2en8zv04 said:

I know this sounds NUTS. But is it really THAT far fetched to think the Hawks could swap with KC in round 1, with a cost of Flynn and a 2nd or 3rd?

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Depends how much Reid likes Flynn. It's not that far-fetched since there are no QBs worthy of that spot for KC. If they are planning to trade down anyway, that type of option could be intriguing for them because they would add their QB, plus have a 1st rounder still in addition to an extra pick.

Click to expand...

Dudes..... that won't happen. The #1 pick has too much "value" for that deal to ever take place. Look at the value charts.

Seriously some generic chart would be more important than what applies this specific draft.

KC is right now projected to take Geno Smith who really didn't end the season very well. So would you rather pay $22 million to Geno for the next 3-4 years or get Flynn with a $7 million contract / year and you are only committing yourself to two years and if he is great fine re-sign him next year at least that is worth it.

If I am picking a qb in the first round THIS YEAR then I am much rather picking up Flynn. Last year - HECK NO

With that said I still question why Seahawks would want hte number 1 pick. There is nobody there worth the money. You offer us the 10th and 11th pick of the draft and that is way more interesting to me.

EDIT: Oh wait forgot about Jones - if they love him then he fits the need

SeaTown81 · Jan 17, 2013

People are acting downright ridiculous about this year's qb draft class. So what if they don't hold a candle to last year? What year does? So now all the teams are just going to throw their hands up and avoid the top ranked qb's with reasonable upside in favor of backups? It doesn't matter how epic the draft class is. QB's always get overdrafted in the 1st round due to need. It's just about as close to a universal truth as you're going to get. You will almost always have 3 to 5 qb's going in the first round. Teams draft on a relative scale. Just the way it is. Draft history is filled with qb's drafted higher than the mock experts predicted.

And it's just not the 1st round where team's try to find their guy. Wilson in the 3rd round, Dalton in the 2nd, Kaepernick in the 2nd. A lot of the teams people think have no choice but to trade for Flynn will consider looking for a guy to groom in those rounds. Actually that's where I feel Flynn's value comes into play. A team that takes a rookie qb in the 2nd or so, kinda like us last year with Wilson, who wants a guy to play in the interim.

ivotuk · Jan 17, 2013

So Flynn is unproven? How unproven was Kolb when AZ gave up a King's ransom for him? Flynn has shown way better than Kolb ever did. Look at it any way you want, but I don't see how people can say Flynn is only worth a 6th or a 7th round pick but teams will pay a 1st or a 2nd for QBs like Ponder and Dalton.

I see us getting a minimum of a 3rd round pick, unless it's a 4th and other considerations.

Edit; ANd there is absolutely ZERO comparison between this year's QB options and last years. Just because he didn't sign somewhere else last year, it in no way indicates his value in 2013.

SeaTown81 · Jan 17, 2013

ivotuk":nqsa70ky said:
So Flynn is unproven? How unproven was Kolb when AZ gave up a King's ransom for him? Flynn has shown way better than Kolb ever did. Look at it any way you want, but I don't see how people can say Flynn is only worth a 6th or a 7th round pick but teams will pay a 1st or a 2nd for QBs like Ponder and Dalton.

I see us getting a minimum of a 3rd round pick, unless it's a 4th and other considerations.

Edit; ANd there is absolutely ZERO comparison between this year's QB options and last years. Just because he didn't sign somewhere else last year, it in no way indicates his value in 2013.

Kolb started 7 games for Philly. Including his first 2 starts where he through for over 300 yards in back to back weeks. Early in the season in meaningful games, not at the end of the year like Flynn. But none of that really matters. Kolb proved a giant bust, and was a big reason why the market for Flynn was smaller than some anticipated. It will also likely factor into his trade value.

And when teams are spending 1st and 2nd rounders on guys like Ponder and Dalton, they are doing so to obtain a young player with upside. They wouldn't do the same for a middle-aged player.

The funny thing is I actually agree with your value assessment for the most part. I think his value is probably a 3rd or 4th (3rd being the max, not minimum). But I don't think teams will be tearing down the door as many here do. There are other options besides Flynn out there.

mikeak · Jan 17, 2013

SeaTown81":2eeh5trw said:
And when teams are spending 1st and 2nd rounders on guys like Ponder and Dalton, they are doing so to obtain a young player with upside. They wouldn't do the same for a middle-aged player.

So if teams learn everything from Kolb what are they supposed to learn from Ponder?

My lesson is don't reach for a qb. You either believe he is a starter or you don't. If you do get him - nobody that watched Ponder play should have believed that he has a long term future in this league.......

pehawk · Jan 17, 2013

mikeak":3uy9p31d said:
SeaTown81":3uy9p31d said:

And when teams are spending 1st and 2nd rounders on guys like Ponder and Dalton, they are doing so to obtain a young player with upside. They wouldn't do the same for a middle-aged player.

Click to expand...

So if teams learn everything from Kolb what are they supposed to learn from Ponder?

My lesson is don't reach for a qb. You either believe he is a starter or you don't. If you do get him - nobody that watched Ponder play should have believed that he has a long term future in this league.......

Another lesson; be Andy Reid and win with any old QB; UDFA, 4th/5th rounders, whatever.

scutterhawk · Jan 17, 2013

Hawkstorian":3lzx196j said:
Why do we think anyone would trade for him when nobody else even wanted to sign him last year? We think losing his starting job and sitting on the bench all year somehow makes him more valuable? I don't get it.

I think I do get it,,There were a slew of Head Coaches, and GMs pink slipped for not taking a flyer on Cousins, Wilson and a few others that are head and shoulders better than the Quarterbacks on their rosters.
What gives Flynn way more credibility NOW, is after John and Pete have come up looking like geniuses for signing Flynn, AND drafting a third round Wilson.
The rest of the League has taken notice of Wilson, and how he passed by the #1, & #2 Quarterbacks in last Years draft.
Flynn will be perceived as a more viable option than most QB's in the upcoming draft, plus, his time with Green Bay AND his six TD's against the Lions + the good fight he put up against the Patriots has to be considered for his abilities to get the job done.

He didn't beat out Wilson for the starting role, but then again who the hell on our roster could have?

scutterhawk · Jan 17, 2013

rainger":2y4oiool said:
SacHawk2.0":2y4oiool said:

Gus knows what he can do, and he's pretty clearly ahead of anyone else in Jax. Draft crop for QBs isn't stellar and we're in a win now league?

Do you thing Gus will make a trade for Flynn?

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I think he will relie on his OC team to advise him. Flynn may not be what the want to do with their offense. Gus is a D guy. Like Carroll he will be going on O input to help him.

Also he does not have the situation like Pete does with his GM. If the GM doesnt want Flynn it wont matter what Gus wants.

Yes but, Bradley will be responsible for the Offense in Jax. as well as the Defense, where he only had to answer for the production of the Defense here in Seattle, AND, a good Defensive Coach still has to help formulate success for the Offense through figguring out how to counter HIS Defensive attack.

seabowl · Jan 17, 2013

Don't think we get much for Flynn in a trade. Personally I would rather hold onto him. With Russ's tendency to run I think there is a decent chance he gets hurt at some point. Would rather have a good backup to get us through that period.

chris98251 · Jan 17, 2013

I would say this, Reid needs a QB that knows the WCO, Flynn does and the version Reid was part of in GB. Jets need an instant fix and someone that can throw a pass consistently. Cardinals have a new coach coming in and unless he thinks the guys they have are football smart they may look at Flynn also. Jags, well if I was them I would grab Zorn to help Gabbert and Flynn to hold the fort until they have a shot at another or Gabbert improves.
The competition of note is Smith and Moore, as proven starters. Most teams want someone that are proven and thats it. Flynn isn't proven but isn't as costly as Smith may be and Moore is the other QB that I think gets a lot of looks. Smith and Flynn though are not FA's as Moore is. Flacco is also on the projected FA list but if the Ravens let him go I would be shocked.

The rest of the FA list are guys that have been all over the league or are so unproven that I doubt anyone feels they would elevate their current situation.

scutterhawk · Jan 17, 2013

MontanaHawk05":11orzy0d said:
ivotuk":11orzy0d said:

I can't believe how people tend to devalue Flynn.
1. There is a high demand for QB this year with very little help in the draft. There was high demand last year, and his market was ice cold.
2. Flynn is a known quantity. Perhaps in Green Bay. I don't think anyone has any idea what he'd look like without GB's receivers (probably a pancake), but last year's market gives us a hint.
3. Swapping places in the 1st or 2nd round is a plausible trade value I think a 6th rounder at most is plausible trade value
4. At minimum, Matt Flynn, a starting caliber QB is worth a 3rd rounder, especially with his reasonable contract. He needs to prove himself a starting caliber QB first.
5. There are teams whose window does not allow for them to bring a QB up to speed and none of the QBs except for Barkley are ready to come in and start right away. True, but even if the young QB's this year aren't perfect, they've probably still got more name recognition and ticket-selling vibe around them that Matt Flynn.
6. As mentioned above, history shows that teams are willing to give up good draft picks for QBs. Hell, they will give up 4th and 5th rounders for Tim Tebow and Josh Wilson! And Deion Branch. No doubt teams get stupid. This remains the primary hope of Flynn getting us more than a 7th. But there are always desperate teams every year.
7. Teams that could use a new QB
Buffalo
Jets They're stuck with Sanchez and might like McElroy as a cheap stopgap while they slog out of cap hell
Browns They might or might not give up on Weeden so quick
Jaguars
KC Barkley
Raiders
Eagles Between Vick and Foles, they might not be looking, but new coach does suggest new QB.
Cardinals See Eagles. But keep in mind, last year several teams were just as desperate, and still nobody cared for Flynn. It's hard to get around that.

8. Teams that need a good backup QB are not going to give up anything more than a 7th to get him.
Miami
Titans
Dallas
Bears!
Vikings
Panthers
Tampa Bay (Freeman could use a good benching)

Personally, I think Flynn is worth someone moving back in the 1st round in order to get him. Or a mid-late 2nd round pick straight up. And if Clayton thinks he is only worth a 7th, then he's losing it.

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I'm sorry, I just see this as wishful thinking. Why are we just so plaintively desperate for an extra 2nd-3rd round pick when we do so well with our 5ths?

Wagner?,,Wilson?

mikeak · Jan 17, 2013

pehawk":1tocn65v said:
mikeak":1tocn65v said:

SeaTown81":1tocn65v said:

And when teams are spending 1st and 2nd rounders on guys like Ponder and Dalton, they are doing so to obtain a young player with upside. They wouldn't do the same for a middle-aged player.

Click to expand...

So if teams learn everything from Kolb what are they supposed to learn from Ponder?

My lesson is don't reach for a qb. You either believe he is a starter or you don't. If you do get him - nobody that watched Ponder play should have believed that he has a long term future in this league.......

Click to expand...

Another lesson; be Andy Reid and win with any old QB; UDFA, 4th/5th rounders, whatever.

Whatever....except for Michael Vick.....

scutterhawk · Jan 17, 2013

T-Sizzle":2rcx26dj said:
HawkFan72":2rcx26dj said:

pehawk":2rcx26dj said:

I know this sounds NUTS. But is it really THAT far fetched to think the Hawks could swap with KC in round 1, with a cost of Flynn and a 2nd or 3rd?

Click to expand...

Dudes..... that won't happen. The #1 pick has too much "value" for that deal to ever take place. Look at the value charts.

Click to expand...

Okay then, let's look at the value charts,,,,( without KNOWING what Wilson has been able to accomplish in his Rookie Season) Where would Wilsons spot on the value charts be, AND, who's doing the evaluating.
If there is a team in need of a starting calibur QB, There isn't many in this years draft, and Johns assessment of Quarterback talent is looking pretty skookum right now.
As for Flynns demoted value by some here on .NET John snapped him up last year BEFORE he even knew that he'd have an absolute shot at getting Wilson, so apparently John thought that Flynn just might be the answer for the Seahawks,,And if you'll excuse me, I have grown to trust that that's one hell of a talent evaluator, and I'd trust his "Player Value Charts" ahead of anyone elses around here.

ImTheScientist · Jan 17, 2013

To trade up 21 spots to #6 Atlanta had to trade their 2011 1st, 2nd, and 4th along with their 2012 1st and 4th....

volsunghawk · Jan 17, 2013

pehawk":3sodste9 said:
I know this sounds NUTS. But is it really THAT far fetched to think the Hawks could swap with KC in round 1, with a cost of Flynn and a 2nd or 3rd?

Yes, it is that far fetched. Moving from 25 to 1 takes a hell of a lot more than that.

Hasselbeck · Jan 17, 2013

T-Sizzle":mgmxdo6a said:
To trade up 21 spots to #6 Atlanta had to trade their 2011 1st, 2nd, and 4th along with their 2012 1st and 4th....

And it's paying off for them. Julio Jones is a stud and they're a game away from the Super Bowl.

If there's truly a guy out there that will make this team complete.. I think you do a trade.

However, I don't think JS/PC think that way.. I think they value draft picks in a big way (and you can see why..) .. I also don't know if there is ONE player in this draft that will truly tie everything together. I think there are quite a few good players in this draft at our positions of need though.

If Marquise Lee or Jadaveon Clowney were in this draft.. then hell yeah.. but I don't know, I think we can stay pat.. or maybe jump from 25 to 15 for a lot less.

theENGLISHseahawk · Jan 18, 2013

pehawk":343j4r6f said:
I know this sounds NUTS. But is it really THAT far fetched to think the Hawks could swap with KC in round 1, with a cost of Flynn and a 2nd or 3rd?

Yes this is nuts. You don't give up the #1 pick and drop 24 places in round one for Matt Flynn.

I've loosened my stance on this slightly. I think it's not unrealistic that we could maybe swap third or fourth rounders with a KC or JAC, similar to what we did with the Chargers for Charlie Whitehurst. That way a team isn't giving up a pick for Flynn, but we're able to make a considerable jump in one of the middle rounds.

SeaWolv · Jan 18, 2013

Missing_Clink":26xkrfhq said:
I was listening to Mitch in the Morning today and they had a report from Jax on for an interview and he said that they are already talking about targeting Alan Branch over there, and that they likely would be interested in any players the hawks would send them, including Flynn.

It will be interesting to see if Branch proves to be a hot commodity in free agency.

NOOOOO!!!!!

(/Darth Vader)

SeaWolv · Jan 18, 2013

seabowl":1bdbi7xu said:
Don't think we get much for Flynn in a trade. Personally I would rather hold onto him. With Russ's tendency to run I think there is a decent chance he gets hurt at some point. Would rather have a good backup to get us through that period.

He doesn't take a lot of hits like RG3. He's effective at sliding and getting out of bounds. I don't remember seeing him take a big hit all year.

Flynn to Jax?

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