WOW - ND LB T'eo's dead GF story a HOAX!!!

Scottemojo

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I have a girlfriend in a different state is man code for...I don't have a girlfriend. As Eddie Izzard said, they assign levels of badness to crimes, why not lies? Saying you shagged a girl you didn't is like lying level 9, and there are WMDs in Iraq is Level 1.

Now, Teo seems to have some accomplices, and used it to fuel his Heisman run, so I am gonna say he was about level 5.
 

12evanf

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I personally think that Kekua was dead the whole time and this is all some weird Samoan 6th Sense thing we're all witnessing.
 

SharkHawk

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I've already stated my opinions on Te'o. He's immature and has been known to lie. I'm sorry some have a problem with me not going into detail, but there is a time and a place for anything. I am also Mormon. We have a "code" so to speak, where we don't go talking about people's past transgressions, even if we know about them. We do it out of respect, and because we believe that people can be forgiven. This is getting religious, so I'll just say that if I knew something about somebody that they had done at some point and they had moved forward with their life then it isn't my place to "out them". So that's why I left what happened here alone completely. It isn't my job. I just stated he was immature and was known to stretch the truth and that was pretty much it. I'll stand by that.

But I'll throw another part of the Mormon culture out there, just as a devil's advocate to myself if nobody else. If young men in the LDS church aren't married by the time they are 22 or so then people start to talk and call them a menace or whatever. If they aren't actively dating LDS girls seeking out their "partner forever" then they are given all kinds of crap. It's a cultural thing. Not a religious rule. It is just the way people are, and the pressure is INTENSE. I wasn't married until 3 days before I turned 27 and my wife was 26 and we got so much crap from people that I really can't explain it.

I am sure each of you in your own culture or community have certain community or cultural things that are common and you just accept them, but if you look at them as an outside observer they seem pretty silly. I always though the "get married ASAP" thing was stupid. I waited a long time. I was in no hurry. I wanted to have at least one college degree finished, a life established, a 401k started, etc. etc. My wife was a career gal and wanted to get married earlier, but she also wanted me to establish a life first.

So.... him being a stud football player and not being married, probably felt a tremendous pressure from his family for not being engaged and married and popping out kids yet. If you look at the typical LDS kid, they are married by 23 at the absolute latest and already have a kid. My sister got married at 23 and people were giving her business for being an "old maid". Kind of weird for sure. But also, he probably had tail chasing him like crazy as the star player on a powerhouse team. How does he explain to "the guys" that he isn't going to parties and hooking up with every girl in sight, while still maintaining his standards (if he did so)? By saying, "No guys, you've got it all wrong. I have a girlfriend, and I see her during school breaks, and I am faithful to her, so I won't go to your parties and be tempted and blah blah blah."

This is an easy out for him if he has a pretend girlfriend, but is waiting to meet somebody 'real' after he finishes school and by doing so keeps the pressure off from family, others of his faith, etc.

Likely? Not really. But i've seen some similar things happen. Guys will make up excuses why they can't do certain things, because deep down they want to follow their religion's rules, but they hate to say it upfront for fear of mockery. Like the guys who just flat-out don't want to drink, it's not acceptable in their religion, and so they say, "Well, I'm allergic to alcohol" rather than, "I don't drink, because it runs counter to my beliefs."

Just another random possible take. There is actually a saying a lot of people use around here, and that is "any young man who isn't married by 22 is a menace to society." It is said tongue in cheek because supposedly Brigham Young said it a long time ago (also half tongue in cheek), but that pressure is very real. It is common in his culture AND his religion, and he's the fish out of water at a Catholic school, so maybe he set it up as a cover, because there was somebody he wanted to be with that was elsewhere (back home perhaps) and he couldn't be with her (or him... who knows???) until he had gotten his first NFL contract and could afford to get married and buy a home and so forth. Again, not saying that's the case, but having felt that pressure firsthand as a nobody, I can only imagine what the pressure would feel like dealing with that same crap and being a real somebody like Manti is. The story gets out of control, he realizes people are going to check and he kills her off hoping nobody notices. The media then runs with it and now he's really screwed and can do nothing but play along, which is something the Manti I've not known personally, but known OF and ABOUT for many many years. He is prone to not thinking things through and ends up in a stupid situation. It wouldn't be the first time and likely won't being the last. He's not a criminal. He's not a terrible guy. He's just not very smart in some ways, and he's not a real forward thinker unfortunately. Consequences seem to be new to him because he's such a terrific athlete.

Tons of great athletes get a free pass their whole life. Leonard Little killed people driving and then went ahead and enjoyed a lucrative NFL career. Don't ever tell me star athletes don't live by a different set of rules. Lawrence Taylor isn't in prison. OJ Simpson was found not guilty. This is small potatoes and the media loves a tragic story and overcoming tough odds. They are complicit.
 

12evanf

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SharkHawk":fw54ffxc said:
I'm sorry some have a problem with me not going into detail

If anyone has a problem with you, its certainly not due to your lack of detail :D

Oh, and good post. That perspective is a lot more reasonable than him being a sociopathic liar.
 

CPHawk

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12evanf":3d2o7eil said:
I personally think that Kekua was dead the whole time and this is all some weird Samoan 6th Sense thing we're all witnessing.


ESPN just ran a new twist on the story. Seems Kekua was real, but Teo only met her one time, and actually a ex-teammate of his who played for the Cards this year, knew her really well. Also they said the players on the team new she wasn't ever his girl friend. Weird story from top to bottom, and why would someone say any of this? Manti just seems to continue to dig a hole deeper and deeper.
 

SharkHawk

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12evanf":3qocaatz said:
SharkHawk":3qocaatz said:
I'm sorry some have a problem with me not going into detail

If anyone has a problem with you, its certainly not due to your lack of detail :D

Oh, and good post. That perspective is a lot more reasonable than him being a sociopathic liar.

I meant not going into detail very early in the season when I said the kid had some issues which I've known about for a few years due to his recruiting visit at BYU. I didn't go into specifics as it wasn't my place to do so, but I have stated before that he's immature, but I like him personally and wish him success. The detail thing is something that somebody ripped me for earlier in this post and asked why I would even mention something about him without giving details. I said because I knew there were character concerns from the time he was 16 years old and sort of left it alone. Notre Dame fans liked to jump on those things and claim I was a hater of Notre Dame. My response was simply that it wasn't true, and in fact I was quite a fan of Manti Te'o and was hoping that he truly had turned the corner on his maturity and ability to be straightforward with folks. It was my hope... but maybe it wasn't the case.
 

ImTheScientist

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SharkHawk":11ne5myk said:
12evanf":11ne5myk said:
SharkHawk":11ne5myk said:
I'm sorry some have a problem with me not going into detail

If anyone has a problem with you, its certainly not due to your lack of detail :D

Oh, and good post. That perspective is a lot more reasonable than him being a sociopathic liar.

I meant not going into detail very early in the season when I said the kid had some issues which I've known about for a few years due to his recruiting visit at BYU. I didn't go into specifics as it wasn't my place to do so, but I have stated before that he's immature, but I like him personally and wish him success. The detail thing is something that somebody ripped me for earlier in this post and asked why I would even mention something about him without giving details. I said because I knew there were character concerns from the time he was 16 years old and sort of left it alone. Notre Dame fans liked to jump on those things and claim I was a hater of Notre Dame. My response was simply that it wasn't true, and in fact I was quite a fan of Manti Te'o and was hoping that he truly had turned the corner on his maturity and ability to be straightforward with folks. It was my hope... but maybe it wasn't the case.

Would these problems (if you were the hawks GM) prevent you from drafting him at #25?
 

Scottemojo

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I wouldn't have drafted him at 25 before this story broke.

I think he is 2nd round talent at best. With this story? lots lower. Dude supposedly learned Dec 6 it was a fraud, but referred to her twice in the next 5 days in interviews. And didn't go to the school with his story for 20 more days.

Fishy. I would draft a criminal before I draft a bullshitter.
 

SharkHawk

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Not if his ability on the field matched what we need. I don't think we need him. So I wouldn't draft him at all. But if you're saying if they looked his physical capabilities and thought he was a match, would I let his stuff from his personal life prevent me from drafting him? No. This is a league where guys like Jerramy Stevens are seemingly given a free pass. Manti is just a knucklehead that likes to be told how great he is, doesn't think ahead, and isn't totally honest with people. He's probably more down to earth and kind than about 95% of the players in the NFL who are just really buttholes. So no.... I wouldn't avoid drafting him. He's not a drug user, a murderer, a wife beater, a drunk driver, a deadbeat father, a violent gang member, or anything else. He's just kind of immature. Typical for NFL players. This is why many have their career end and their life really sucks. They've never learned to manage their own anything.

And seriously..... you'd draft somebody who had committed a CRIME over somebody who got caught up in a lie because he was embarrassed more than likely? Wow. I'd rather have the guy who felt like a fool than one who was willing to break laws. As far as I can tell... no laws were broken here. Just a kid making a really really dumb mistake.
 
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pehawk

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I've been considered a criminal for much of my life, Shark. Would you employ Te'o or I?

I have to hire all the time, I'd take the criminal.
 

DTexHawk

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I'd take the criminal who looks you in the eye and shoots straight over the liar anyday.

Shark - How many NFL players you personally know?

Curious about your statement: "about 95% of the players in the NFL who are just really buttholes."
 

SharkHawk

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DTexHawk":ue8ashwy said:
I'd take the criminal who looks you in the eye and shoots straight over the liar anyday.

Shark - How many NFL players you personally know?

Curious about your statement: "about 95% of the players in the NFL who are just really buttholes."

How many do I personally know that play now, or have played at some point? 2 different questions. I believe criminals are liars who take things. Liars who aren't criminals are just stupid. Why would you take the worst type of liar?
 

SharkHawk

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pehawk":1nfjnmn5 said:
I've been considered a criminal for much of my life, Shark. Would you employ Te'o or I?

I have to hire all the time, I'd take the criminal.

A current criminal? Criminals and liars are about the same to me. It's deception. As an employer, I would avoid people who are deceptive. If a guy came in to my office and said, "Look.... here's the situation.... I stole a playstation 2 when I was in college, it was stupid, I paid for it ten times over, I learned my lesson.... I felt awful." Then that's one thing. If I found out that it had happened and he hadn't told me about it, then he's a liar. See what I'm saying. You don't want the double whammy/liar/thief.

Everybody makes mistakes. Yes, even me. I own up to them. I feel that's the only way I can be. I can't be deceptive. It doesn't work. Always covering your tracks. So if it turns out that Manti was being honest and was tricked, then I think my whole opinion changes. A remorseful thief? I can understand hiring. Especially if they said, "Look.... I know I've got to earn your trust. Let's lay out a trust plan for what I have access to, and with the understanding that we both know my past mistakes." Yeah.... I'd take that guy over a flat out liar any day. But a guy who walks in and lies about his criminal record and puts on a con job and I think he'd make a great employee... no I wouldn't hire him because he wasn't honest. If a kid came in and didn't come clean on having once lied about having a girlfriend, I don't think that's as big of a problem as the guy who lies and says he has no record.

Maybe we're talking about different things here. Having a record doesn't prevent you from getting a job, but not being upfront about it will eliminate you from employment at 99% of businesses in America. You have to disclose it. You don't have to disclose if you ever pretended you were hooking up with some island hottie. Or you don't have to tell people if you were hooking up with some island hottie without everybody knowing. ;) Heh heh. Lips zipping. Zipppppp.
 

kearly

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pehawk":3j5b5yko said:
Neither Scottemojo nor kearly have to concoct stories of dead GF's to mask their private lives (not that there's anything wrong with that).

In fairness, it's by necessity. I am a terrible liar.

Scottemojo":3j5b5yko said:
I have a girlfriend in a different state is man code for...I don't have a girlfriend. As Eddie Izzard said, they assign levels of badness to crimes, why not lies? Saying you shagged a girl you didn't is like lying level 9, and there are WMDs in Iraq is Level 1.

Now, Teo seems to have some accomplices, and used it to fuel his Heisman run, so I am gonna say he was about level 5.

That is hilarious.

Scottemojo":3j5b5yko said:
Fishy. I would draft a criminal before I draft a bullshitter.

That's almost bumper sticker material. On the money.
 

kearly

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SharkHawk":1r1bqoyu said:
But I'll throw another part of the Mormon culture out there, just as a devil's advocate to myself if nobody else. If young men in the LDS church aren't married by the time they are 22 or so then people start to talk and call them a menace or whatever. If they aren't actively dating LDS girls seeking out their "partner forever" then they are given all kinds of crap. It's a cultural thing. Not a religious rule. It is just the way people are, and the pressure is INTENSE. I wasn't married until 3 days before I turned 27 and my wife was 26 and we got so much crap from people that I really can't explain it.

I am not LDS, but I grew up in Mormonville (northern Arizona on the border, near Navajo rez). Our town had 1 radio station at the time and it's main talk show was hosted by the wife of a local polygamist. My school was probably 70% LDS, and would have been far more if not for a large native american contingent. A lot of my friends growing up were Mormon.

Anyway, for those who don't know, Shark is 110,000% right on this. Seriously, I could write a book on the pressures that existed among young people in highly concentrated Mormon communities. Some violations of this code could even result from excommunication from both Church and one's entire family. Being cut off from your entire family after living your entire life in an intense family oriented world is incredibly daunting.

I can only imagine the pressure's you had to deal with. No need to break any code or anything. Saying "trust me" is enough for me.

Honestly, the first thought I had was that Te'o was gay. Talk about tremendous pressure to keep that under wraps. He probably isn't, but if he was, everything would fall into place pretty quick. Like you said, the pressure to conform is enormous.

Shark, my pastor was once a criminal many decades ago. He is the wisest and most humble man I've ever met in person. Sometimes people learn from making mistakes (including crime), but people who take lying lightly are less likely to reform and much harder to trust.
 

kearly

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12evanf":3bxd75i0 said:
ESPN just ran a new twist on the story. Seems Kekua was real, but Teo only met her one time, and actually a ex-teammate of his who played for the Cards this year, knew her really well. Also they said the players on the team new she wasn't ever his girl friend. Weird story from top to bottom, and why would someone say any of this? Manti just seems to continue to dig a hole deeper and deeper.

Even if Kekua did exist, the girl on the facebook page is not her. It is obvious that Te'o is complicit. I think Shark is on to something with his theory. Family/religious pressure's could have been a factor.
 
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pehawk

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This is going to sound extremely bigoted and ignorant, but dude kinda looks, sounds and acts gay. If you assume he is gay alot of this makes sense. Some poor choices - but their choices you can at least comprehend.
 

Red Beard

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I hope during the NFL draft that Seattle tricks Manti Te'O into thinking that they're drafting him by calling him (assuming he's in the green room or on camera where ever he is at the time) and then they draft someone else and get his reaction on camera.
 
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