Montana - you lost me when you fail to understand the difference between the 2012 and 2013 QB market. Really, c'mon, you're smarter than that.

Again, we're dealing with a rookie CBA + the damn class of 1983 all over again + the #2 pick on the block + Peyton Manning, etc. Flynn stood NO chance. You know that.

100% agree with you Montana. When has Flynn established himself as a known quantity and a starting caliber QB? His big games in GB established himself as a guy who deserved a shot at a starting job, but he didn't win that (granted Russ is amazing), but he's no better off than he was.

I just don't see where he went from "teams aren't even bringing him in for a look see" to "teams are willing to give a high pick".

That still doesn't automatically ensure that some team is going to pay a second-rounder for a five-year backup with a weak arm, limited mobility, and experience in a strictly pass-first offense. It's not a terribly electrifying profile for fans or coordinators, even on desperate teams. His own offensive coordinator in Miami yawned at him. I don't think I'm being crazy here.

The difference between the 2012 and 2013 QB market is the difference between Flynn fetching a 7th rounder to fetching MAYBE a conditional 5th, IMO. The QB market is just one piece of the puzzle - Flynn's the other piece. Whether it's for our own QB hopes or now just our hopes of extra draft picks, this board continues to overrate Flynn's quality and I just don't understand why.

Besides, with this front office, a mere 5th-rounder could be the next Richard Sherman. So why strain yourself arguing for a 2nd-rounder?

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Oh, I totally agree with the draft pick range. Totally.

But, last year was a once every 25 years type offseason for QB's in FA.

And, why wouldn't have Philbin yawned at him? At that price, with a high draft pick (under new rookie cap), in a rebuilding year. I think its dumb anyone expected them to make a play for Flynn.

Montana, the OC in Miami was also Tannehill's college coach. So, there is that. Tannehill allowed him to not teach a new QB his entire system.

I think you know I don't over rate Flynn's quality. But desperation creates strange bedfellows. And Jacksonville and a few other teams are desperate. Do you think Arizona thought Flynn looked pretty damn good about halfway through last season?

I have been consistent in saying that with 10 picks, we don't need more picks. But with our 25/26 spot in the draft next to Green Bay, who shares some of our needs at DT, WR, TE, Flynn might be the trade piece to jump up a few spots. His value doesn't have to be an actual pick.

Or, his value might be a 2014 conditional pick. Which allows the trading team to add a round, allows us to get a higher pick if he hits some performance marks, and everyobody is happy.

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I know this sounds NUTS. But is it really THAT far fetched to think the Hawks could swap with KC in round 1, with a cost of Flynn and a 2nd or 3rd?

Depends how much Reid likes Flynn. It's not that far-fetched since there are no QBs worthy of that spot for KC. If they are planning to trade down anyway, that type of option could be intriguing for them because they would add their QB, plus have a 1st rounder still in addition to an extra pick.

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Why is what I ask myself. What do you want that high up in this draft that you are willing to give up a 2nd or 3rd rounder plus Flynn?

This draft has depth - this draft does not have elite talent easily spotted (saying there may be elite players coming out of the draft but none is standing out right now)

First few picks will mean $20 million over three years so you gain nothing in regards to the cap......

Dudes..... that won't happen. The #1 pick has too much "value" for that deal to ever take place. Look at the value charts.

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Well, Reid's made lessor QB's SHINE. And, IMO, that's an 8 win team, with a mediocre QB. Flynn's at least that.

For the record, I'm not shooting for the moon, for the sake of it. I see KC as the only real trading partner (no to Jax because Henne's cheaper and just as good). And, at DT, there's only 2 impact types. And, they'll be gone within 6 picks.

But, please note, I'm a draft moron. I know NOTHING about draft charts or prospects. So, feel free to call me a nutter.

Pretty simple. They're fans. Be it Matt Flynn or Charlie Whitehurst, they want to believe they have unearthed the next big find. Had Flynn signed with Arizona, the exact same fans would have downplayed his two starts in GB. But he signed here, so those two games meant the world. Exact same rationale applies to his trade value. Whatever fits the best interests of the Hawks is where the thinking goes. Of course our backup qb is the only option for teams that need a starter. And of course this draft class is now considered one of the worst ever. lol. It's what fans do.

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Seriously some generic chart would be more important than what applies this specific draft.

KC is right now projected to take Geno Smith who really didn't end the season very well. So would you rather pay $22 million to Geno for the next 3-4 years or get Flynn with a $7 million contract / year and you are only committing yourself to two years and if he is great fine re-sign him next year at least that is worth it.

If I am picking a qb in the first round THIS YEAR then I am much rather picking up Flynn. Last year - HECK NO

With that said I still question why Seahawks would want hte number 1 pick. There is nobody there worth the money. You offer us the 10th and 11th pick of the draft and that is way more interesting to me.

EDIT: Oh wait forgot about Jones - if they love him then he fits the need

People are acting downright ridiculous about this year's qb draft class. So what if they don't hold a candle to last year? What year does? So now all the teams are just going to throw their hands up and avoid the top ranked qb's with reasonable upside in favor of backups? It doesn't matter how epic the draft class is. QB's always get overdrafted in the 1st round due to need. It's just about as close to a universal truth as you're going to get. You will almost always have 3 to 5 qb's going in the first round. Teams draft on a relative scale. Just the way it is. Draft history is filled with qb's drafted higher than the mock experts predicted.

And it's just not the 1st round where team's try to find their guy. Wilson in the 3rd round, Dalton in the 2nd, Kaepernick in the 2nd. A lot of the teams people think have no choice but to trade for Flynn will consider looking for a guy to groom in those rounds. Actually that's where I feel Flynn's value comes into play. A team that takes a rookie qb in the 2nd or so, kinda like us last year with Wilson, who wants a guy to play in the interim.

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So Flynn is unproven? How unproven was Kolb when AZ gave up a King's ransom for him? Flynn has shown way better than Kolb ever did. Look at it any way you want, but I don't see how people can say Flynn is only worth a 6th or a 7th round pick but teams will pay a 1st or a 2nd for QBs like Ponder and Dalton.

I see us getting a minimum of a 3rd round pick, unless it's a 4th and other considerations.

Edit; ANd there is absolutely ZERO comparison between this year's QB options and last years. Just because he didn't sign somewhere else last year, it in no way indicates his value in 2013.

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Kolb started 7 games for Philly. Including his first 2 starts where he through for over 300 yards in back to back weeks. Early in the season in meaningful games, not at the end of the year like Flynn. But none of that really matters. Kolb proved a giant bust, and was a big reason why the market for Flynn was smaller than some anticipated. It will also likely factor into his trade value.

And when teams are spending 1st and 2nd rounders on guys like Ponder and Dalton, they are doing so to obtain a young player with upside. They wouldn't do the same for a middle-aged player.

The funny thing is I actually agree with your value assessment for the most part. I think his value is probably a 3rd or 4th (3rd being the max, not minimum). But I don't think teams will be tearing down the door as many here do. There are other options besides Flynn out there.

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So if teams learn everything from Kolb what are they supposed to learn from Ponder?

My lesson is don't reach for a qb. You either believe he is a starter or you don't. If you do get him - nobody that watched Ponder play should have believed that he has a long term future in this league.......

Another lesson; be Andy Reid and win with any old QB; UDFA, 4th/5th rounders, whatever.

I think I do get it,,There were a slew of Head Coaches, and GMs pink slipped for not taking a flyer on Cousins, Wilson and a few others that are head and shoulders better than the Quarterbacks on their rosters.
What gives Flynn way more credibility NOW, is after John and Pete have come up looking like geniuses for signing Flynn, AND drafting a third round Wilson.
The rest of the League has taken notice of Wilson, and how he passed by the #1, & #2 Quarterbacks in last Years draft.
Flynn will be perceived as a more viable option than most QB's in the upcoming draft, plus, his time with Green Bay AND his six TD's against the Lions + the good fight he put up against the Patriots has to be considered for his abilities to get the job done.

He didn't beat out Wilson for the starting role, but then again who the hell on our roster could have?

Yes but, Bradley will be responsible for the Offense in Jax. as well as the Defense, where he only had to answer for the production of the Defense here in Seattle, AND, a good Defensive Coach still has to help formulate success for the Offense through figguring out how to counter HIS Defensive attack.

Don't think we get much for Flynn in a trade. Personally I would rather hold onto him. With Russ's tendency to run I think there is a decent chance he gets hurt at some point. Would rather have a good backup to get us through that period.

I would say this, Reid needs a QB that knows the WCO, Flynn does and the version Reid was part of in GB. Jets need an instant fix and someone that can throw a pass consistently. Cardinals have a new coach coming in and unless he thinks the guys they have are football smart they may look at Flynn also. Jags, well if I was them I would grab Zorn to help Gabbert and Flynn to hold the fort until they have a shot at another or Gabbert improves.
The competition of note is Smith and Moore, as proven starters. Most teams want someone that are proven and thats it. Flynn isn't proven but isn't as costly as Smith may be and Moore is the other QB that I think gets a lot of looks. Smith and Flynn though are not FA's as Moore is. Flacco is also on the projected FA list but if the Ravens let him go I would be shocked.

The rest of the FA list are guys that have been all over the league or are so unproven that I doubt anyone feels they would elevate their current situation.

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Wagner?,,Wilson?

Whatever....except for Michael Vick.....

Okay then, let's look at the value charts,,,,( without KNOWING what Wilson has been able to accomplish in his Rookie Season) Where would Wilsons spot on the value charts be, AND, who's doing the evaluating.
If there is a team in need of a starting calibur QB, There isn't many in this years draft, and Johns assessment of Quarterback talent is looking pretty skookum right now.
As for Flynns demoted value by some here on .NET John snapped him up last year BEFORE he even knew that he'd have an absolute shot at getting Wilson, so apparently John thought that Flynn just might be the answer for the Seahawks,,And if you'll excuse me, I have grown to trust that that's one hell of a talent evaluator, and I'd trust his "Player Value Charts" ahead of anyone elses around here.

To trade up 21 spots to #6 Atlanta had to trade their 2011 1st, 2nd, and 4th along with their 2012 1st and 4th....

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Yes, it is that far fetched. Moving from 25 to 1 takes a hell of a lot more than that.

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And it's paying off for them. Julio Jones is a stud and they're a game away from the Super Bowl.

If there's truly a guy out there that will make this team complete.. I think you do a trade.

However, I don't think JS/PC think that way.. I think they value draft picks in a big way (and you can see why..) .. I also don't know if there is ONE player in this draft that will truly tie everything together. I think there are quite a few good players in this draft at our positions of need though.

If Marquise Lee or Jadaveon Clowney were in this draft.. then hell yeah.. but I don't know, I think we can stay pat.. or maybe jump from 25 to 15 for a lot less.

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February 2, 2014... the day the dream was finally realized

Yes this is nuts. You don't give up the #1 pick and drop 24 places in round one for Matt Flynn.

I've loosened my stance on this slightly. I think it's not unrealistic that we could maybe swap third or fourth rounders with a KC or JAC, similar to what we did with the Chargers for Charlie Whitehurst. That way a team isn't giving up a pick for Flynn, but we're able to make a considerable jump in one of the middle rounds.

NOOOOO!!!!!

(/Darth Vader)

He doesn't take a lot of hits like RG3. He's effective at sliding and getting out of bounds. I don't remember seeing him take a big hit all year.

Why would we waste a first round pick on a QB when we don't need one? I know Pete is all about competition, but I don't think he would throw away our top pick just to get a QB competition in training camp. Especially when Russell Wilson will win the starting job anyway. I don't think anyone can work harder, stay as focused and dedicate themselves to the game more than Russ. Dude is one of a kind.

And for Matt Flynn. I think his departure is inevitable. Where To, that's the question. The Jags are probably one of the most likely teams. But there are other teams out there who need a QB that is capable of coming in and making an immediate impact. I'm stilling thinking that Dallas is going to ditch Tony Romo and snag Barkley in the draft. If that doesn't work out, I see them making an offer for Flynn. Hell, I could see them making an offer for Flynn regardless of whether or not they get a decent QB out of the draft.

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Interesting thread. I really don't know what value Flynn has but I doubt this year hurt it any. Had Wilson not shown the entire football world why he won the starting role then maybe you could question how Flynn lost to a rookie but with Wilson's performance this year I doubt anyone is holding that against Flynn.

If GM's only look at stats then they will dismiss Flynn's preseason performance but that GM shouldn't have a job in football at any level. I suspect if the GM's around the league with potential interest in Flynn will actually watch the preseason tape and see a! QB with no continuity with his receivers and running a new offense still making good defensive reads, audibling when needed and getting the ball out quickly, accurately and with plenty of zip and arm strength. They will also see tons of critical drive killing drops as well as what looked like a requested force feeding the ball to TO.

The point being he looked like he was doing all the right things and this time in a new offence lacking all the weapons he had in GB.

Some here I think want to discredit Flynn so bad they ignore whatever they need to and hang onto comments like no one wanted him last year but if you look at Flynn and the situation objectively I think it really is just ignoring for whatever reason. I'm even seeing the weak arm comments resurfacing. Like Flynn or not he definitely disproved that in preseason.
.

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One. It was a helmet-to-helmet vs. either Skins or last game against Lambs. Skins IIRC. No penalty called (but if ET merely touches Tannehill's head it's freakin' flag city).

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this, stop being homers

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sig by Ramster

Yeah, because there's 6 potential franchise QB's in the draft and Manning THIS offseason too!

I think you are over-generalizing the situation. This year is not last year, for one. Tons of new head coaches, GMs and QB openings. Lots of need, crap draft, few viable options, value is up.

He did not lose his starting job. It was never his. Regardless, he did not become a less talented player sitting on the bench this year.

We can definitely move him, teams will be interested. Guess we will have to wait and see how it all plays out to see who is really the homer here.

We are going to get the same thing the 49ers are going to get for Alex Smith, nothing. Personally I would give more for Alex, since at least he has proven he can win in the right system. So I will ask everyone, what is Alex worth? Whatever you state, we can assume Flynn is worth a little less.

I believe both Flynn and Smith are cut to save money, if the cap hit is not too large.

The 2012 NFL Draft and FA were far superior to this years class. We won't get a first rounder.. but saying a team wouldn't be interested in Flynn is foolish IMO. Not to mention.. 8 teams changed coaches.. 4 teams changed GM's AND Coaches. That means there will be some teams who may be interested in a Matt Flynn that weren't a year ago.

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No, i agree that we can get something for flynn, but not a 1st rounder. i should have made that more clear. I was calling those people homers

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sig by Ramster

Gotta disagree about Smith. If anything he has proven he is not starter caliber and even in a system loaded with talent and a probowl O-line they still had to dumb down the system for him to be successful. It is similar to Tarvaris Jackson here last year, he was the weak link and was holding the team back, yet we still got a draft pick for him and now in a lessor system he wasn't even good enough to be activated for a single game.

Flynn hasn't proven that he can consistently produce but so far has passed with flying colors every test he has come up against including preseason were his stats look horrible. An intelligent GM/Coach understands how the team affects positively and negatively how the QB performs. Would you rather have a QB that at least has shown good reason to believe he won't hold your team back or a guy you know you have to dumb down your system and likely have a dominant system just for him to be decent?

I think most would be more willing to take a risk on Flynn were there is still hope he can become the next Hasselbeck instead of taking a guy they know they have to massively adjust for to hope he can be successful.

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If this is true, I am very worried about the 49ers now. They dumbed down the system for Smith and still made it to the NFCCG last year...wow!

Don't worry about 49ers. They wont be as good once Crabtree gets locked up for a year

I'd think it would be a 3rd rounder for Flynn. Multiple teams interested and the contract isn't that heavy, but still probably a 3rd rounder.

With good reason but there are other factors that also come in. The Niners key players are aging. Justin Smith who is the key to that defense and that defense is the key to their flexibility on offense, is turning 34 in September. Worse than that Harbaugh plays his starters 97%+ of snaps so you can reasonably expect breakdowns in health as well as lack of experience for the replacements.

The QB gets far to much credit and blame for a game that is the ultimate team sport. A good one can make a big difference just like a bad one can but ultimately it is the team that dictates wins and loss's.

Right now Kapernick isn't my biggest worry. So far he has shown he is athletic and has great physical intangibles but ultimately the QB position is a cerebral position and that question about Kap has definitely still been unanswered. We've seen him do good and bad but what happens when the team around him deteriorates or defenses learn how to take away his mobility? Which I think will happen sooner rather than later. He hasn't shown to be a good pocket QB so far.

I honestly believe this is the last year the Niners will be as dominant as they have been recently. It is unsustainable the way Harbaugh plays them and without Justin Smith that team will become average in a hurry.

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If we got offered anything above a 6th rounder, I'd take it and laugh all the way to the draft.

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