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 Post subject: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:48 am 
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With 6 something to go in the 2nd quarter before the 4th down decision to go for it; to me, frame by frame it looked like Turbin picks up the yard for the 1st down. I question whether the coach could've taken a closer look at the SPOT on that play. Someone in the booth has got to be communicating replay potential there.

I know; move on already. I just think in the heat of playoff battle sometimes time and place gets hurried unless of course if you're a Russell Wilson. He has the poise of a Montana in clutch situation and with his mobility and good decisions on the field we will get to the show. (:01 tic in first half was a TD as well.)

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:51 am 
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I haven't even though about it since, I thought he got the first down, but if not he was inches away. The spot was absolutely woeful regardless


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:53 am 
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Suffering through the NFL net replay and decided to check it frame by frame; it was obvious that he was across.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:01 pm 
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challenging the spot is tricky business. the only way you win is if it is changed to a first down. I too thought the spot was atrocious. I thought at the least it was within a foot, but they spotted it a fool yard away. Perhaps we just do a qb sneak if it's inches and perhaps it changes things, we'll never know, but the spot was pretty bad, but unlikely to have changed enough to give us the first down upon challenge.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:03 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
challenging the spot is tricky business. the only way you win is if it is changed to a first down. I too thought the spot was atrocious. I thought at the least it was within a foot, but they spotted it a fool yard away. Perhaps we just do a qb sneak if it's inches and perhaps it changes things, we'll never know, but the spot was pretty bad, but unlikely to have changed enough to give us the first down upon challenge.



Did you look at it again? He was across and Russ signaled the first down before play had been whistled.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:09 pm 
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HalG6 wrote:
kidhawk wrote:
challenging the spot is tricky business. the only way you win is if it is changed to a first down. I too thought the spot was atrocious. I thought at the least it was within a foot, but they spotted it a fool yard away. Perhaps we just do a qb sneak if it's inches and perhaps it changes things, we'll never know, but the spot was pretty bad, but unlikely to have changed enough to give us the first down upon challenge.



Did you look at it again? He was across and Russ signaled the first down before play had been whistled.


I did, but you aren't taking into account the "official" view. Just because it looks past at one angle I can guarantee you there's another angle that looks like he didn't make it past. You never know what the official is going to decide under that hood. We haven't done well with spot challenges, and it was close enough that the referee was unlikely to overturn what he saw on the field.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:17 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
HalG6 wrote:
kidhawk wrote:
challenging the spot is tricky business. the only way you win is if it is changed to a first down. I too thought the spot was atrocious. I thought at the least it was within a foot, but they spotted it a fool yard away. Perhaps we just do a qb sneak if it's inches and perhaps it changes things, we'll never know, but the spot was pretty bad, but unlikely to have changed enough to give us the first down upon challenge.



Did you look at it again? He was across and Russ signaled the first down before play had been whistled.


I did, but you aren't taking into account the "official" view. Just because it looks past at one angle I can guarantee you there's another angle that looks like he didn't make it past. You never know what the official is going to decide under that hood. We haven't done well with spot challenges, and it was close enough that the referee was unlikely to overturn what he saw on the field.


You don't think Russ had a good angle spotting that down the line; I know...let it go man. Hawks were robbed on a couple of occasions and I think the officiating crew makes a big difference in this league sometimes...


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:18 pm 
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On that particular play, I was more concerned that the officials ignored (didn't see) pete calling timeout before the third down play

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:22 pm 
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HalG6 wrote:
You don't think Russ had a good angle spotting that down the line


Players signal first down all the time when it's close. Offensive players, at least. Defensive players tend to signal otherwise. Doesn't matter if they actually GOT the first down, they'll still claim it.

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:26 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
On that particular play, I was more concerned that the officials ignored (didn't see) pete calling timeout before the third down play


Maybe clouded his/Pete's decision to go for it out of frustration not getting the TO before the snap; being human he let his emotions get away there I think-Russ signaled first down and he didn't misinterpret the action on the field. 1st Dn Hawks.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:50 pm 
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When my dad and I watched it we were like "first Down" then they spotted it nearly and entire yard short. I thought that was a terrible spot. Usually that FB run up the guy is money so I don't have the 4th down call.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Let it go man. Hawks lost that game with blown opportunities and another melt down on defense. No need to try and find ways to blame the refs once again.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:12 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
challenging the spot is tricky business. the only way you win is if it is changed to a first down. I too thought the spot was atrocious. I thought at the least it was within a foot, but they spotted it a fool yard away. Perhaps we just do a qb sneak if it's inches and perhaps it changes things, we'll never know, but the spot was pretty bad, but unlikely to have changed enough to give us the first down upon challenge.


You are 100% correct that you loose the time-out if it is not a 1st down BUT you still get the new spot. So while you loose the challenge (technically) you gain something.

For those replaying this - I did once or twice at the time. The official above comes running down marking the ball INCHES short. Lets for arguments sake say that it is the spot where the ball ends up after replay. That is significantly different than the spot where the ball was placed.....


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:33 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
kidhawk wrote:
challenging the spot is tricky business. the only way you win is if it is changed to a first down. I too thought the spot was atrocious. I thought at the least it was within a foot, but they spotted it a fool yard away. Perhaps we just do a qb sneak if it's inches and perhaps it changes things, we'll never know, but the spot was pretty bad, but unlikely to have changed enough to give us the first down upon challenge.


You are 100% correct that you loose the time-out if it is not a 1st down BUT you still get the new spot. So while you loose the challenge (technically) you gain something.

For those replaying this - I did once or twice at the time. The official above comes running down marking the ball INCHES short. Lets for arguments sake say that it is the spot where the ball ends up after replay. That is significantly different than the spot where the ball was placed.....


so we lose the timeout, and if we run the same play, still give up the ball so the replay there really wasn't the best option. Of course maybe if he did the replay he'd have rethought going for it, but who knows? It's all water under the bridge now

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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:48 pm 
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^ you can't argue that way. Inches away what do you do next - qb sneak instead? And I didn't say that we necessarily would loose it just say that was a possibility.

I do think we should have taken as much time as possible and if we thought we have inches short instead of 4th and 1 we challenge.

Doesn't matter now - the main thing I don't like about it all was straight up the gut on 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 when we have Lynch and RW on the team - didn't make sense live doesn't make sense now......


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:52 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
HalG6 wrote:
kidhawk wrote:
challenging the spot is tricky business. the only way you win is if it is changed to a first down. I too thought the spot was atrocious. I thought at the least it was within a foot, but they spotted it a fool yard away. Perhaps we just do a qb sneak if it's inches and perhaps it changes things, we'll never know, but the spot was pretty bad, but unlikely to have changed enough to give us the first down upon challenge.



Did you look at it again? He was across and Russ signaled the first down before play had been whistled.


I did, but you aren't taking into account the "official" view. Just because it looks past at one angle I can guarantee you there's another angle that looks like he didn't make it past. You never know what the official is going to decide under that hood. We haven't done well with spot challenges, and it was close enough that the referee was unlikely to overturn what he saw on the field.


Maybe so but I think the point is that it was worth a challenge at such a critical part of the game. Who knows which way it goes if the challenge fails then the Hawks are no worse off.


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:23 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:21 pm 
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Yeah; hopefully next season if that happens again we'll get a replay look at the SPOT and p/u first down. Just an observation- It will take most of the off season to 'get over it' for this Hawks fan...


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 Post subject: Re: 3rd and 1 Turbin
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:06 am 
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I never really understood the concept of bringing out the measurement crew with chains if the ball is placed on the field in a very arbitrary manner to begin with.

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