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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence  Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:02 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
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Seahawk Sailor wrote: SonicHawk wrote: Seahawk Sailor wrote: No, Jiggy. Only gun violence is bad. 'Cause it's the guns, y'know. Other violence is cool. It's awesome when you guys consistently disregard everything we say. NO ONE ONLY BLAMES GUNS. But guns ARE part of the problem. If a plumber comes to a job without his tools... what is he going to do to fix the leak? Maybe try to use something else that is less effective, but nonetheless... You're proving my point. Guns are still squarely in the focus when it still comes down to people's actions and decisions. If a plumber comes to a job without his tools, we address the issue of him forgetting his tools; we don't try to figure out what's wrong with the tools. The problem isn't him forgetting his tools, the problem is the plumbing still is broken.
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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Seahawk Sailor
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:45 pm |
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:23 am
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Location: Bothell
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SonicHawk wrote: The problem isn't him forgetting his tools, the problem is the plumbing still is broken. The plumbing's broken alright.  _________________ I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:19 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
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We had guns then and didn't stop it. What exactly are guns preventing?
They sure aren't preventing the 11,000 homicides per year by firearms.
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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Seahawk Sailor
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:05 pm |
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:23 am
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Location: Bothell
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 You totally missed the point of that picture. But I'll forgive you, heightened emotions after this weekend and all. _________________ I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:41 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
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Maybe your point was stupid. 
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:04 am |
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:40 am
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Seahawk Sailor wrote: The plumbing's broken alright. No one is arguing banning guns, at least I don't think Sonic is. No guns would be a godsend but will never happen. What about Jose Guerena? He valiantly defended his family after a botched SWAT raid. Military trained, did everything right, defended his home. You and your fucking hand guns won't do shit when the SWAT comes crashing through your door. Quote: As the SWAT team forced its way into his home, Guerena, a former Marine who served two tours of duty in Iraq, armed himself with his AR-15 rifle and told his wife and son to hide in a closet. As the officers entered, Guerena confronted them from the far end of a long, dark hallway. The police opened fire, releasing more than 70 rounds in about 7 seconds, at least 60 of which struck Guerena. He was pronounced dead a little over an hour later.
UPDATE: An autopsy that was conducted later determined that Guerena was hit 23 times.
The Pima County Sheriff's Department initially claimed (PDF) Guerena fired his weapon at the SWAT team. They now acknowledge that not only did he not fire, the safety on his gun was still activated when he was killed. Guerena had no prior criminal record, and the police found nothing illegal in his home. After ushering out his wife and son, the police refused to allow paramedics to access Guerena for more than hour, leaving the young father to bleed to death, alone, in his own home. Oafs cling to their guns as some measure of security against the idea of government stranglehold on the values on which they hold dear. NEWS FLASH: the time has passed on any chance to overtake the US with the force it currently has. Any "revolution" would be DOA. You can either live in a delusionary dream world where you play Rambo against Socialist Obama, or you can accept reality that the government is already bigger than you militarily. The bad news: The 2nd Amendment doesn't mean jack when applied to holding our government hostage. The good news: guns are a useful tool to keep your family and home safe from bad people with guns. When we look at guns in this light there is no reason that they shouldn't be tracked. If the gov wants your guns it would come and fucking take them already - you are not going to stop a flash grenade and SWAT team in the middle of the night, sorry Sailor and Smoking but neither of you could stop that.
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Seahawk Sailor
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:40 am |
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Location: Bothell
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Wait, 12evanf, you cited a story where violent, police state actions were taken by the government against a private citizen, a gun was not even used in self-defense, and you expect people to feel better about stricter gun control? That the government knows what's best for us, citing that as an example?
_________________ I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:10 am |
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Seahawk Sailor wrote: Wait, 12evanf, you cited a story where violent, police state actions were taken by the government against a private citizen, a gun was not even used in self-defense, and you expect people to feel better about stricter gun control? That the government knows what's best for us, citing that as an example? You can stop playing dumb with me, Sailor. I made it clear that as private citizens we are not powerful enough to ever succeed in a violent takeover, at least if the military isn't on the side of the revolution. Nor would I advocate violence because I have more faith in the electoral process for change. But the instance of Jose Guerena is a perfect example of why we are impotent against the government. Our military will squash any revolution. As a service member, you should completely understand this. Once everyone reaches this actual truth, maybe we can realize the 2nd Amendment is no longer effective. The Constitution is a great document but it isn't infallible. The Founding Fathers could not predict the future perfectly, they just did their best at creating a very solid foundation. Over time some cracks might start to show in any foundation.
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Seahawk Sailor
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:21 am |
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:23 am
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12evanf wrote: Seahawk Sailor wrote: Wait, 12evanf, you cited a story where violent, police state actions were taken by the government against a private citizen, a gun was not even used in self-defense, and you expect people to feel better about stricter gun control? That the government knows what's best for us, citing that as an example? You can stop playing dumb with me, Sailor. I made it clear that as private citizens we are not powerful enough to ever succeed in a violent takeover, at least if the military isn't on the side of the revolution. Nor would I advocate violence because I have more faith in the electoral process for change. But the instance of Jose Guerena is a perfect example of why we are impotent against the government. Our military will squash any revolution. As a service member, you should completely understand this. Once everyone reaches this actual truth, maybe we can realize the 2nd Amendment is no longer effective. The Constitution is a great document but it isn't infallible. The Founding Fathers could not predict the future perfectly, they just did their best at creating a very solid foundation. Over time some cracks might start to show in any foundation. I'm not playing dumb; you posed a completely oxymoronic example and I called you on it. You've made the assumption that the military is a single unit of government control even in times where the government acts in an unconstitutional manner, instead of a very large group of individuals who all signed contracts saying they will uphold the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. _________________ I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:21 am |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
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Location: Anchorage, AK
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Funny how earlier in this thread, you seemed pretty adamant that you'd be the voice of dissent when the government comes to take away the guns 12evanf wrote: #6 When (never) the government comes to take your precious guns that hold and protect you at night, I will be there raising my voice in dissent. That is the time to bring up Schindler's List, the Khmer Rouge, and Chairman Mao, not now. But now, the truth comes out... 12evanf wrote: No guns would be a godsend but will never happen. You try to say you only want SOME gun control, but in truth, you, like the rest of the gun control nazis want to abolish private gun ownership. I don't see any other explanation for the second quoted statement, unless you are pro gun banning altogether. This makes what you said earlier about being voice of dissent if the government came to tke the guns absolute BS. How can anyone take you seriously if you can't even post your truthful feelings on the subject consistently.
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:20 am |
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kidhawk wrote: Funny how earlier in this thread, you seemed pretty adamant that you'd be the voice of dissent when the government comes to take away the guns 12evanf wrote: #6 When (never) the government comes to take your precious guns that hold and protect you at night, I will be there raising my voice in dissent. That is the time to bring up Schindler's List, the Khmer Rouge, and Chairman Mao, not now. But now, the truth comes out... 12evanf wrote: No guns would be a godsend but will never happen. You try to say you only want SOME gun control, but in truth, you, like the rest of the gun control nazis want to abolish private gun ownership. I don't see any other explanation for the second quoted statement, unless you are pro gun banning altogether. This makes what you said earlier about being voice of dissent if the government came to tke the guns absolute BS. How can anyone take you seriously if you can't even post your truthful feelings on the subject consistently. I mean no guns ever. Like if they weren't invented and couldn't be. The world would be better off. I've owned guns, gone to shooting ranges, hunted. I'm not some libtard that has no working experience with guns.
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:24 am |
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Seahawk Sailor wrote: 12evanf wrote: Seahawk Sailor wrote: Wait, 12evanf, you cited a story where violent, police state actions were taken by the government against a private citizen, a gun was not even used in self-defense, and you expect people to feel better about stricter gun control? That the government knows what's best for us, citing that as an example? You can stop playing dumb with me, Sailor. I made it clear that as private citizens we are not powerful enough to ever succeed in a violent takeover, at least if the military isn't on the side of the revolution. Nor would I advocate violence because I have more faith in the electoral process for change. But the instance of Jose Guerena is a perfect example of why we are impotent against the government. Our military will squash any revolution. As a service member, you should completely understand this. Once everyone reaches this actual truth, maybe we can realize the 2nd Amendment is no longer effective. The Constitution is a great document but it isn't infallible. The Founding Fathers could not predict the future perfectly, they just did their best at creating a very solid foundation. Over time some cracks might start to show in any foundation. I'm not playing dumb; you posed a completely oxymoronic example and I called you on it. You've made the assumption that the military is a single unit of government control even in times where the government acts in an unconstitutional manner, instead of a very large group of individuals who all signed contracts saying they will uphold the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Oxymoronic? Hardly. If you are conspiring against the government, you will be found and taken out. As you should be. You would be labeled the domestic enemy, not the government.
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:34 am |
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Location: Anchorage, AK
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12evanf wrote: Oxymoronic? Hardly. If you are conspiring against the government, you will be found and taken out. As you should be. You would be labeled the domestic enemy, not the government. Are you saying there is no scenario in which the government would be the enemy of the freedoms we take for granted today? That there is absolutely no scenario in which the government of the US could become tyrannical in any way shape or form?
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Seahawk Sailor
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:36 am |
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:23 am
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Location: Bothell
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12evanf wrote: Oxymoronic? Hardly. If you are conspiring against the government, you will be found and taken out. As you should be. You would be labeled the domestic enemy, not the government. Oh good lord. I'm not talking about conspiring against the government. I served my country proudly and faithfully for a career and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. You honestly have no idea what you're talking about. _________________ I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.
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Seahawk Sailor
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:39 am |
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:23 am
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Location: Bothell
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12evanf wrote: I mean no guns ever. Like if they weren't invented and couldn't be. The world would be better off. I've owned guns, gone to shooting ranges, hunted. I'm not some libtard that has no working experience with guns. Sounds like you're one who believes in fairy tales, though. This is exactly the rhetoric that gets things started. _________________ I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:49 am |
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Seahawk Sailor wrote: 12evanf wrote: I mean no guns ever. Like if they weren't invented and couldn't be. The world would be better off. I've owned guns, gone to shooting ranges, hunted. I'm not some libtard that has no working experience with guns. Sounds like you're one who believes in fairy tales, though. This is exactly the rhetoric that gets things started. That was directed at kidhawk for calling me a "gun nazi." Guns are for sport and self-defense. I'm going to go ahead and not side with people that want to shoot politicians, you can stay on the other side for all I care.
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:57 am |
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kidhawk wrote: 12evanf wrote: Oxymoronic? Hardly. If you are conspiring against the government, you will be found and taken out. As you should be. You would be labeled the domestic enemy, not the government. Are you saying there is no scenario in which the government would be the enemy of the freedoms we take for granted today? That there is absolutely no scenario in which the government of the US could become tyrannical in any way shape or form? OMG YES!! KIDHAWK!! THAT IS WHAT I'M SAYING!!! YESS!!! I FEEL LIKE WE'VE FINALLY MELDED MINDS AND YOU CAN READ MY DEEPEST INNER THOUGHTS!! FML, kid. No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the government has the world's greatest military at its disposal and if you and your podunk buddies plan a revolution, you will be murdered in your sleep, your guns locked safely in the closet. The media will label you domestic terrorists, and traitors to your country. The only time a revolution would occur in this country IF the government became tyrannical is when the military sides with the people. A military coup is the only way revolution in America would work. It would probably be more effective if we didn't use guns to kill soldiers in any hypothetical revolution. If unarmed people were being slaughtered unjustly, I think it would more likely touch the hearts of our supposed enemies.
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SeAhAwKeR4life
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:58 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:43 pm
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kidhawk wrote: 12evanf wrote: Oxymoronic? Hardly. If you are conspiring against the government, you will be found and taken out. As you should be. You would be labeled the domestic enemy, not the government. Are you saying there is no scenario in which the government would be the enemy of the freedoms we take for granted today? That there is absolutely no scenario in which the government of the US could become tyrannical in any way shape or form? I will say, there is NO scenario where gun toting militia types actually have any chance of not being eliminated by said oppressive government. We can beat them by nonviolent means, by exposing truths, but no crazy gun toting militia stands any chance against our government and they are silly and foolish to even think for a second that they do. Someone else said it, target shooting, hunting, and protection. _________________ 
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:58 am |
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Seahawk Sailor wrote: 12evanf wrote: Oxymoronic? Hardly. If you are conspiring against the government, you will be found and taken out. As you should be. You would be labeled the domestic enemy, not the government. Oh good lord. I'm not talking about conspiring against the government. I served my country proudly and faithfully for a career and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. You honestly have no idea what you're talking about. A violent revolution is not a conspiracy against the government. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggghhhttt......
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SeAhAwKeR4life
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Post subject: Re: Gun control and violence Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:59 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:43 pm
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Location: Blyn, WA
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12evanf wrote: ...The only time a revolution would occur in this country IF the government became tyrannical is when the military sides with the people. A military coup is the only way revolution in America would work. It would probably be more effective if we didn't use guns to kill soldiers in any hypothetical revolution. If unarmed people were being slaughtered unjustly, I think it would more likely touch the hearts of our supposed enemies. This. _________________
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