For the stupid school argument, there are obvious variables missing here. Number of colleges and number of population. The numbers I could find (I rounded population): UK totals - 60mil population and 125 colleges, US totals = 300mil population and 4,168 colleges. You can then break each down and get:

UK - 20mil people/41.6 colleges US - 3mil people/41.6 colleges

Way more opportunity for Americans to enroll in college. Can we get back to how there is an obvious need for gun control? Please.

Sure, but it's enjoyable to watch how you can make excuses for why the numbers are skewed when they don't fit your belief. You argue those rather quickly, but when anyone says that the numbers between the countries aren't really compatible for the gun control line you are using, then you aren't buying into it.

So you want to get back to the gun control talk. Sailor posted a nice little study from Harvard that totally refutes your theory that less guns will equal lower rates. That would make a nice place to start back up again

Well Ronald Reagan is the first thing I see on that page, and it must be because the whole thing was written 3 decades ago, because the information is silly. It likens Western European countries to other Western European countries. It says Norway has a low murder rate and owns the must guns and Denmark has a high murder rate with few guns, as does "Holland" (since when is Holland a country?) The real numbers: Norway - .6; Denmark - .9; Netherlands (Holland) - 1.1.
All top 20 and very low numbers.

The US is just below Palestine, Yemen, and Georgia. Right there at 4.8. Woohoo! We made the bottom half of the list for homocide rates. We're number 104! We're number 104! etc.

I linked an article from Harvard advocating gun control less than a month ago. Extended the waiting period alone (like other countries) would lessen suicide rates.

I took the time to use data and research to quash your silly theory, the least you can do is return the favor.

Edit: See above post where I took on Sailor's post.

There's a lot more that goes into murder than weapons. Guns are part of the problem, but not the only solution.

Here are my factors with murder and violence in general

#1. Poverty
#2. Mental health
#3. Access to Weapons
#4. Stress

Removing #2 only solves part of the problem. However, removing one of these problems is a stepping stone to resolving it.

Let's look at the top 10 countries with the least amount of stress (according to the OECD) and their murder rates (per 100,000).

#1. Denmark (.9)
#2. Finland (2.2)
#3. Netherlands (1.1)
#4. Sweden (1.0)
#5. Ireland (1.2)
#6. Canada (1.6)
#7. Switzerland (0.7)
#8. New Zealand (0.
#9. Norway (0.6)
#10. Belgium (1.7)
#?. United States (4.

A lot of times people point to Switzerland is their argument, but in reality the Swiss have relatively strict gun laws.

Switzerland vs. US
Switzerland requires ALL guns to have a permit... concealed (another additional & restrictive license)... US does not.
Private sale must be registered in Switzerland... US? Not so much. Even purchasing a gun privately in Switzerland means a background test.
Persons living in poverty in Switzerland? 6.9%... US? 15.6% (CIA)
Healthcare is Universal in Switzerland and they spend a TON of money on mental health disorders like anxiety and depression.

To be honest, I'm not for guns, but I realize it's only part of the problem. If we had better mental health care, significantly lowered poverty rates, lowered the daily stresses of life... murders would drop significantly. Remove guns too? Who knows how much further it would drop.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

From that article: "For example, Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate. In contrast, Holland's murder rate is nearly the worst, despite having the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe. Sweden and Denmark are two more examples of nations with high murder rates but few guns."

America will always have a fairly high rate of violent crime and murder. It's in our blood, not only from our violent beginnings, but due to the fact that we're composed of a huge variety of folks from a lot of different backgrounds. Have you seen the television from other countries? A lot of it is boring as whale-shit until about ten o'clock at night when the soft-core porn comes on. We like things larger than life. Our movies full of explosions and violence and body counts. Our pastimes filled with big hits, record-breaking performances, and over-the-top diatribe. We're a nation of hyperbole, and with that comes more violence. We will always have more violence and murder. What we can do is address the issues of violence and murder, rather than simply alter the methods used. After all, if you get right down to it, there are a whole lot worse ways to die than being shot, and that's what we'll start seeing. In addition to gun violence remaining unchanged.

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Which "silly theory" did you quash? The one where gun control does NOTHING to mitigate violence? The one where VIOLENCE IS THE PROBLEM? I didn't see you quash that anywhere. The problem here is gun control zealots think that this solution is just so simple and if you take away the guns the problems will be fixed and there is nothing further from the truth.

The article which you BELIEVE you quashed, is comparing apples to apples, unlike you who like to compare apples to oranges. Comparing within the EU is much like comparing state to state in the US and is much more of a telling stat than trying to compare the US to a country like Denmark or the UK. The study shows that the correlation of guns to less violence and lower death rates is not a cause and effect like you would have us believe.

That's such a fucking cop out. "America will always..."

You've officially shown that you have no forethought and lack problem solving skills.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

I'm saying the root of this issue is because we're a bunch of barbarians and not because we have a bunch of guns laying around. How is that not relevant to the discussion? And more importantly, how does that merit an attack on my critical decision-making skills. I'm saying it's far more complicated than just "too many guns" and it's a cop out?

_________________
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Since that piece is so old, we can now compare Washington D.C.'s much lower gun violence rate now with data from the time this piece was written and determine that yes, gun control is effective.

_________________
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It is a simple fact that killing someone with a knife takes a different mental capacity then shooting someone which can be distant and impersonal.

If you don't have guns, you force people to go to that next level and not everyone will. Lot harder to do a drive by or shoot an entire movie theater full of people with a knife.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

And what do you do when instead they plant a homemade explosive device or poison a water supply or food in the cafeteria? Hell, they don't even have to be in the same room to kill someone then.

_________________
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No shit it's more complicated than "too many guns".

We're a bunch of animals, absolutely. But when animals learn conflict resolution and cognitive decision making they often can solve situations beyond physical harm. Although sure is easier to shoot someone than solve something through discussion.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

Those aren't options now for someone?

Well, like we do now we have a shit load of regulations, standards and oversight to prevent as much as possible. Why not the same with guns?

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

My point is that we can either address the root problems that cause murder and mayhem, or we can keep tightening regulations to the point where they take away our shoelaces. Look at the number of violence and murders in prison. Security there is about equal to that aboard an airliner in mid-flight. In both situations, they take away every possible weapon you can think of, and yet in prisons, violent crime and murders happen on a regular basis. The difference is obviously NOT the availability of weapons, so what is it?

If you answered the type of people involved, you're on the right track. It's not the tools we use, nor their availability that make a real difference in anything. It's the motives and mindsets behind it. If a person is willing to off another person, they're not going to be terribly particular about how they do it. Guns get the job done quick and easy. It's why they're popular. You want to have tighter restrictions on folks buying guns, fine. It's not going to solve the issue of gun violence in America, though.

_________________
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Gun control and/or removal doesn't solve the problem but it's part of the solution.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

And there's the real issue. Many people believe this, and I have yet to see where it has been a viable, documented solution. Look at any of the big cities where gun control is strict as hell, like New York City and Washington, D.C. Gun crime is spiked through the roof. How has control helped?

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I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.

If taking away guns solved even PART of the problem of violence, then the UK wouldn't be leading in violent crime would they?

The root of the problem is not how people choose to kill, it's the fact that they choose to kill. That is what we need to concentrate on, not what tool they choose to use most often when doing it

No, this is the real issue. Everyone agrees there is an amalgamation of problems that leads to gun violence. We all can make a fairly accurate list of root causes, and certainly each item needs to be addressed. But as soon as someone says "gun control," half the crowd steps back, "Whoah, whoah, whoah, well guns certainly can't be discussed when we are talking about gun violence." Its horse shit. Of course America's easy access to guns is part of the problem. Fuck, I can go to Walmart right now and begin a gun collection. I'll have to wait a few days, but I'd get the green light. There's no mandatory training course on owning a gun or hell even selling a gun. I can have a gun by next Tuesday and sell it to whoever I want. The rest of the modern world just raises an eyebrow at this, while we argue how sane we are.

If they're so violent, again why do we have 4 times their homocide rate? Its a rather simple question.