Wilson's First Half vs. Second Half?

Jack Straw · Jan 4, 2013

Hey fellas, :2:

Skins fan ... Through Game Rewind I've seen all of the Hawks vs. Rams and Miami games. I must say, Wilson has some jaw dropping play making ability.

What is nuts is his progression from the first 8 weeks of the season vs. the last 8 weeks, at least statistically.

Can you all weigh in on what was the catalyst for his improvement? Was is due to playcalliing, scheme, personnel changes, opponents, or plain old getting his feet wet?

If you have any random questions about the Skins have at it ...

RiggoReincarnated · Jan 4, 2013

I've read that he's a perfectionist and film hound, first guy to get to practice, last to leave, much like RGIII iin leading by example. Yet with more of a chip on his shoulder being overlooked and coming in as a 3rd rounder.

Sac · Jan 4, 2013

Hey Jack, Riggo has the first part right. One of the other things to consider is that where RG3 got all the reps in the offseason Wilson was splitting reps 3 ways through training camp and preseason. The training wheels really didn't come off until the late 4th quarter of the Chicago game.

Jack Straw · Jan 4, 2013

SacHawk2.0":c4u74qyi said:
Hey Jack, Riggo has the first part right. One of the other things to consider is that where RG3 got all the reps in the offseason Wilson was splitting reps 3 ways through training camp and preseason. The training wheels really didn't come off until the late 4th quarter of the Chicago game.

holy crap ...see, I didn't realize that, even though i did know he was not the starter until the last preseason game right?

huh ... okay.

dbsn2420 · Jan 4, 2013

First half Carrol had him playing within a box. Most likely to minimixe rookie mistakes, but the unintended consequence of that was Wilson wasn't playing in his element. As the season progressed along with the opening of the playbook, Wilson took off. He plays smart effecient football. Stats from week 8 until now are impressive.

Shock2k · Jan 4, 2013

Week 1 through 8 the press conferences with Carroll were the same:
1) No we are not opening up the whole playbook yet. (Sometimes he would even say the part they did open)
2) Russell is making good progress.

I think the Miami Game was the fans breaking point. He said as much, and admitted they may have moved to slow. If I can find the *blurg I'll post it.

SeaTown81 · Jan 4, 2013

The coaches had training wheels on him at the start of the season. Just because they were concerned of limiting a rookie's mistakes. Like has been pointed out, he didn't win the job til late in preseason. Pretty much the final week. They didn't allow him to take over 100% of the offense til the end of the Chicago game. He played so clutch with 2 game winning drives, that they finally realized he was ready. A lot of fans feel they waited too long. He's definitely improved and learned a ton. Dude is a crazy student of the game. But he could've been doing this at the very least a couple of weeks earlier.

Starrman44 · Jan 4, 2013

Coach Carroll was asked that question, he said, "Russell didn't change at all, he has been the same from the start. We changed."

Even though it is in quotes, it is the way I remember it. I can't remember if it made an article. I heard it from one of Coach Carroll's pressers.

Obviously, Russell has gotten more on the same page with the players, but I believe they could have taken the training wheels off of Russell a whole lot earlier.

Russ Willstrong · Jan 4, 2013

Many things factored into the rapid development of our offense some of which you mentioned. Studying film religiously and putting in more time with his receivers outside of scheduled practices was a major cog. Adopting the zone read was another key contributor albeit risky since our coaches and QB didn't have familiarity with it, however, once included into our playbook Russell's talent and great decision-making took over naturally.
IMO, Russell's playmaking ability and leadership was always present. It's just that he was handicapped from the beginning so having more stability at WR and OL allowed him to keep improving. If you watch his earlier games you'll find that several of his interceptions were due to unlucky plays on the part of the receivers and many crucial plays were called back because of procedural penalties (Breno Giacomini). We were among the most penalized teams in the first half of the season. These problems were amplified even more with our reliance on the run game and the fact that we attempted the fewest passes per game by a significant margin during the first half of the season.

Russ Willstrong · Jan 4, 2013

By the way, welcome.

seahawksTopGear · Jan 4, 2013

Skins fan, here is the story on Russel.

Preseason game 2 was against Denver and Matt Flynn did not look great. Pete put in Willson at the helm on the third preseason game against Kansas City and he looked expectacular. You have to remember that at that point of the season we thought both teams were about middle of the pack comparable, not the best and worst teams in the league respectively. I often wonder what would have happened if they had played in opposite order...

In any case Pete could start Matt Flynn and if it did not work out have one more year to turn the franchise around, or bet it all on Willson and have to explain to the owner why he threw away ten million dollars of his money. In all likelihood a Wilson flop would mean Pete would have joined the black Monday crowd last week, probably never to coach again. Ballsy move to start the rookie.

So Pete went with the rookie but decided to play it safe. Have the kid be a game manager and Marshawn lynch carry the football team. In the first few games there were almost no passing plays, worst passing offense on the league. This is not a case of training wheels like you have heard in other posts, this was a case of not being able to afford a QB failure and playing accordingly.

You know already from seeing RGIII, but there is a fire inside these rookie QBs. First week out on the loss to Arizona they put the ball on his hand four times in the last minute of the games, four failures. What does he do? he makes redzone completions his mantra for the entire second week, practices the failed passes again and again, he did not miss clutch throws like that for the rest of the season. Every game he fixates into fixing something that did not work the previous game, he never lets failures pull him down, he makes them drive him.

RGIII hit the NFL running, your coach basically installed his college offense and made everybody else adjust. Willson left his two college experiences behind and learned a new one, then he looked at RGIII and copied that too. People who compare RGIII numbers to Willson and claim that they are similar but that your QB is ahead forget that Wilson was so much worse in the beginning of the year. Think about what that must mean for comparisons that take only the second half of the season.

Good luck on Sunday

drdiags · Jan 4, 2013

Pete, since he has been here, is tough on his QBs. He wouldn't allow Hasselbeck much freedom at first his first season here until late in the season. He treated Tarvaris Jackson the same when he took over last year. If he started Flynn, I would bet he would have been just as constrictive. Pete hates turnovers to such a degree I think it can be a crutch. My hope is that Wilson doesn't have to re-earn Pete's trust next year and they can build off where they are at now.

Others have pointed out why Wilson's second half numbers are better.

SouthSoundHawk · Jan 4, 2013

IMHO...Chances are Russell Wilson won't be the reason the 'hawks lose a game, based on what he learned while taking it slow and adjusting to the NFL in the first half of the year.

Hawknballs · Jan 4, 2013

SouthSoundHawk":fkafi8r3 said:
IMHO...Chances are Russell Wilson won't be the reason the 'hawks lose a game, based on what he learned while taking it slow and adjusting to the NFL in the first half of the year.

i dont want to make excuses for Russell, but -

week 1 loss to cardinals - threw passes where NFL receivers should catch them multiple times in the end zone only to come away empty

loss to the rams - had one or two interceptions that should have been catches, bobbled by the receivers, and bounced right into defenders hands; wilson could have led the team down the field for the go-ahead TD but anthony mccoy fell down on a route so the ball had no chance and went right to a defender that otherwise wouldn't have had a clean catch.

loss to 49ers - Russell's individual 'worst game' but anyone will tell you there were 5 or 6 drops on big potentially game-changing plays in that game where any one of them could have changed the momentum and eventual outcome.

losses to miami and detroit - Russell put us in a spot to win and our vaunted defense disappeared for the end of the 4th quarter.

Again, not making up excuses. Sure, Russell could have just thrown for 8 touchdowns in each game and none of the other issues would matter. The point is that an undersized rookie QB led us to an 11-5 season and none of the 5 losses were because of our inexperienced "undersized" rookie QB.

Sac · Jan 4, 2013

seahawksTopGear":6yeae3ys said:
Skins fan, here is the story on Russel.

Preseason game 2 was against Denver and Matt Flynn did not look great. Pete put in Willson at the helm on the third preseason game against Kansas City and he looked expectacular. You have to remember that at that point of the season we thought both teams were about middle of the pack comparable, not the best and worst teams in the league respectively. I often wonder what would have happened if they had played in opposite order...

In any case Pete could start Matt Flynn and if it did not work out have one more year to turn the franchise around, or bet it all on Willson and have to explain to the owner why he threw away ten million dollars of his money. In all likelihood a Wilson flop would mean Pete would have joined the black Monday crowd last week, probably never to coach again. Ballsy move to start the rookie.

So Pete went with the rookie but decided to play it safe. Have the kid be a game manager and Marshawn lynch carry the football team. In the first few games there were almost no passing plays, worst passing offense on the league. This is not a case of training wheels like you have heard in other posts, this was a case of not being able to afford a QB failure and playing accordingly.

You know already from seeing RGIII, but there is a fire inside these rookie QBs. First week out on the loss to Arizona they put the ball on his hand four times in the last minute of the games, four failures. What does he do? he makes redzone completions his mantra for the entire second week, practices the failed passes again and again, he did not miss clutch throws like that for the rest of the season. Every game he fixates into fixing something that did not work the previous game, he never lets failures pull him down, he makes them drive him.

RGIII hit the NFL running, your coach basically installed his college offense and made everybody else adjust. Willson left his two college experiences behind and learned a new one, then he looked at RGIII and copied that too. People who compare RGIII numbers to Willson and claim that they are similar but that your QB is ahead forget that Wilson was so much worse in the beginning of the year. Think about what that must mean for comparisons that take only the second half of the season.

Good luck on Sunday

So basically, RW has the Sharingan and can copy any jutsu he sees, right?

seahawksTopGear · Jan 5, 2013

>So basically, RW has the Sharingan and can copy any jutsu he sees, right?

Thanks SacHawk2.0! Could have saved myself a lot of writing.

HawKnPeppa · Jan 5, 2013

"Russell didn't change at all. We did. He just made believers out of us"....Pete Carroll

12thMode · Jan 5, 2013

SacHawk2.0":yxnusd21 said:
So basically, RW has the Sharingan and can copy any jutsu he sees, right?

Russkashi-kun!

Edit: Yes I too indulge in the manga!

AVL · Jan 5, 2013

HawKnPeppa":100tbg4a said:
"Russell didn't change at all. We did. He just made believers out of us"....Pete Carroll

It took awhile for me to see this re-quoted. Everyone was always spouting "rookie mistakes" ,while sometimes true, when a lot of it was normal adjustments with new team mates.

Turns out one more victory would have been huge, but thinking that this process would ever be easy is laughable.

I like our chances with what we've got.

Wilson's First Half vs. Second Half?

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