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 Post subject: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Ya, well we've talked about every other dang thing you could talk about.

Back in 2006-ish Mitch (KJR) had mentioned to Holmgren that the Seahawks had a higher winning percentage when they deferred the kick off at home. Holmgren actually tried it the next game (which we ended up losing).

I acutally think it's cool that Carroll is doing it now. It's like telling your defense, "I completely trust you, go get em."

So the question is, does Carroll do it in Washington if we win the coin toss.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:11 pm 
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Of course he does.

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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:13 pm 
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At home you defer to get the crowd pumped up... on the road you put the offense out there in hopes of sucking the life out of the place early...


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Skins will get the ball first then undoubtedly unless Carroll wants to see if RW can take the crowd out of the game early. Shanahan was deferring the 1st half of the season, but ever since the Thanksgiving game he's been of the mentality of "its a playoff game, we play to win from opening kickoff". Its worked thus far. Not sure if I agree, but whatever. Skins got off to a slow start offensively against Dallas last week - will have to do better against you guys.


Last edited by RiggoReincarnated on Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:20 pm 
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It will also silence/sober a crowd to hand them a 3 an out.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:50 pm 
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In a thread I made a while back, I commented on the benefits for field position if your defense matches up well against the opposing offense and a 3 and out is a high probability. That first series can determine field position for a good portion of the first half. Another thing to consider when making the decision is if youyr offense usually starts off slow or fast. Our offense starts off very fast but might not do so on the Redskins turf, so defering might be a consideration depending on how your team looks during practice on loose turf.

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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:02 pm 
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StaffAmerica74 wrote:
At home you defer to get the crowd pumped up... on the road you put the offense out there in hopes of sucking the life out of the place early...


Generally this. But if we defer, our defense starts the game with a three and out, and we start the second half with the ball, it's huge. But even with giving up a touchdown to open the game, we start with the ball in the second half.

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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:25 pm 
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Skins have been back and forth about taking the ball or deferring lately. One thing I can tell you is our kicker, Kai Forbath has been money w/ field goals, 17 for 18, but his kick off's suck. You'll have plenty of chances for returns...... Or maybe not if we can't score touchdowns against your D!


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:27 pm 
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I would always rather we got the ball in the second half. No matter what happens in the first half, it means you have a chance to get 7 points. You have halftime to make your adjustments and go out there and execute.

I'm all for deferring on the road as well. Yeah you lose the chance to score first and take the crowd out of it, but the crowd is going to be noisy at the start of the game anyways. better to let them get comfortable and sit down before your offense comes out there.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:32 pm 
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I saw a Carroll interview early this season where he implied the main reason for deferring was to avoid the other team scoring to end the first half and then getting the ball again to start the second half. Giving the other team consecutive scores is a real kick in the nuts.

I think this followed his 'play not to lose' philosophy we saw so much of in the first half of the year.

Maybe he's had an epiphany since - his recent experience with RW's capabilities could do much to change his perspective.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Another reason for not deferring is often times at the start of the game not all of the fans are in their seats, late getting in from tailgating, etc. so the full fury of the home crowd can't be unleashed against the opponents defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:45 pm 
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Shock2k wrote:
Ya, well we've talked about every other dang thing you could talk about.

Back in 2006-ish Mitch (KJR) had mentioned to Holmgren that the Seahawks had a higher winning percentage when they deferred the kick off at home. Holmgren actually tried it the next game (which we ended up losing).

I actually think it's cool that Carroll is doing it now. It's like telling your defense, "I completely trust you, go get em."

So the question is, does Carroll do it in Washington if we win the coin toss.


to me it makes perfect sense especially for the first half of the season when the offense had a short leash, let your defense initiate the tempo..

seems like it has worked and now that the offense is dialed in they come back after the half with the ball to reset the tempo, I for one love it, on the other hand I think da cheecago bares don't... lol

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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:09 pm 
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Fight 4 Old DC wrote:
Skins have been back and forth about taking the ball or deferring lately. One thing I can tell you is our kicker, Kai Forbath has been money w/ field goals, 17 for 18, but his kick off's suck. You'll have plenty of chances for returns...... Or maybe not if we can't score touchdowns against your D!


Oh, that's interesting. Leon is an amazing kick returner, and the rule changes have kept him from lighting it up as much as usual... Had no idea that Kai wasn't good with kickoffs.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:28 pm 
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Pete pretty much always deferred after winning the toss at USC. It was so common that people, including me, got a little superstitious about the whole thing; it seemed as if we lost games when we weren't able to defer.

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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:33 am 
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I agreed with Mitch about deferring at home. On the road, let's take the ball and score first.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:10 am 
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I like the idea of deferring because at the beginning of the game, your defense is fully rested. Then, at the half, the defense rests for 15 minutes, plus however much time the offense can hold onto the ball.
More rest for the defense is the best part of it in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:22 am 
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I have enough confidence in the defense and would be willing to make that gamble at the beginning of the game.

I like having the Ball first in the second half on the road. Let's say things go badly, I would rather be starting with the ball (momentum) in the second half. Or if up, I would like the opportunity to put a nail in the coffin.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:29 am 
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Lavell Edwards used to defer every time he won the toss. He felt it was better to receive in the second half. I saw him defer twice in a game though. It was due to the winds shifting and him wanting to have the wind at his back in the 4th quarter. It was kind of funny. The announcers are saying what a stupid thing he had done kicking both halfs and how he really blew it. Of course the 4th quarter rolls around and his team can pass and the other team can't (wind was gusting up to 50). BYU put it on them in the 4th and walked away with the game.

I'm surprised Holmy didn't pick that up from his mentor. He used to do almost everything Lavell did, mixed in with a couple of Bill Walsh tendencies. It was pretty interesting to see how similar Edwards and Holmgren were. They were tight. The defer thing just made me think of that whole relationship.

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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:00 am 
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StaffAmerica74 wrote:
At home you defer to get the crowd pumped up... on the road you put the offense out there in hopes of sucking the life out of the place early...


but if your defense goes out on the field first the crowd has no reason to cheer
stop them early it sucks the life out of them
then the offense comes in and scores and it's easy


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:04 am 
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SharkHawk wrote:
Lavell Edwards used to defer every time he won the toss. He felt it was better to receive in the second half. I saw him defer twice in a game though. It was due to the winds shifting and him wanting to have the wind at his back in the 4th quarter. It was kind of funny. The announcers are saying what a stupid thing he had done kicking both halfs and how he really blew it. Of course the 4th quarter rolls around and his team can pass and the other team can't (wind was gusting up to 50). BYU put it on them in the 4th and walked away with the game.

I'm surprised Holmy didn't pick that up from his mentor. He used to do almost everything Lavell did, mixed in with a couple of Bill Walsh tendencies. It was pretty interesting to see how similar Edwards and Holmgren were. They were tight. The defer thing just made me think of that whole relationship.


Huh, cool. I didn't know you could do that


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:43 am 
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Yes, all you're doing when deferring is saying you'd rather make your choice in the 2nd half than now. So when you defer, 99.9% of the time, you're going to ask for the ball in the second half. But you could conceivably defer to the 2nd half and then the other team could choose to kick to you. I've seen strange things happen when deferring like mentioned above, but it's extremely rare.

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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:23 am 
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Deferring is better for so many reasons. The most important is that possessions later in games are worth more than earlier. Last I checked, research showed that scoring first has neither a positive nor negative effect on winning percentage. Later possessions are worth more for the same reason that going second in college football playoffs is more advantageous: you have more information about what you need to do to win and your opponent has less time to respond. This applies just as much to road games as home games. There's no justification for changing strategy in Washington.


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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:30 am 
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I don't know how it is in Washington dc, but in Seattle, 45% of the crowd is NOT in there seats yet when the other team completes there first drive.
The stadium is at its quietest the first 3 minutes on the clock of the 3rd quarter.

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 Post subject: Re: Kickoffs... Really???
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Now that we have discussed Kickoffs, Let's get this game going!!! 24 hours until somebody kicks off. I'm am so ready to see our Hawks win!
We need a topic, what to do to make 24 hours go by quickly. No "R" rated ideas.
Go Hawks!


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