Redskin Fan's POV

drastik · Jan 4, 2013

It's pointless to compare divisions, IMO.

I think the NFCE and NFCW are both very good, competitive divisions. I can see any team from either division, with the exception of the Eagles and Cardinals, being legit playoff contenders in the AFC.

The reason why the NFCE will always get more "shine", so to speak, is that it's home to Dallas, Washington (the two most valuable franchises in the NFL) , the New York Giants and Eagles. Every team in the division is a HUGE market team that brings the NFL tons of $$$$. So that division will always be a priority for the NFL to showcase and hype up.

Fight 4 Old DC · Jan 4, 2013

HansGruber":165v3wea said:
Fight 4 Old DC":165v3wea said:

HansGruber":165v3wea said:

And just to add to the flames:

I know a lot of Native Americans and not one of them has a name like Dietz. Maybe you could enlighten us and tell us what tribe named its children with a European name like Dietz? The Hansel Tribe? They lived on the shores of the Rhine and hunted wild beaver on the backs of Reindeer. Perhaps you have heard of them?

Click to expand...

You really should do a little homework before spouting off......especially since he has so much history with your fair state. He was the son of a full blooded Sioux mother and German father. He played football at Carlisle Indian Industrial School and was a teammate of Jim Thorpe. He is still revered at Washington State where I believe he was the last coach to win a championship there.

Click to expand...

Oh my bad.

Im sure the Sioux would have been proud watching one of their own, on that NFL sideline, wearing a headdress and face paint. Dietz himself said he hated it but he was probably lying. Tons of natives in the 1950s would have been proud to coach the last segregated nfl team while being forced to wear a headdress and face paint. Because that's what all Indians do. When they're not dancing with wolves.

Right?

Oh so now he WAS an Indian?....and it sounds like u were a close friend and he shared w/ you his personal feelings.
I'm not here to defend something that happened 75-80 years ago. Those were racist times, heck the KKK were in full swing. And the Redskins don't have the best track record ....George Preston Marshall was the last nfl owner to draft a black player, Bobby Mitchell I think. But to imply that the team name has racial overtones to this day is silly.

Conrad87 · Jan 4, 2013

volsunghawk":3exwicp5 said:
Conrad87":3exwicp5 said:

And the statement that someone here made that “If the Redskins played in the NFCW they’d be 6-10 at best this season” seems very misguided. The NFC West was extremely top heavy this season.
49ers 11-4-1
Seahawks 11-5
Rams 7-8-1
Cardinals 5-11
While the argument could be made that the NFC East had more balance (albeit in a down year)
Redskins 10-6
Giants 9-7
Cowboys 8-8
Eagles 4-12

The only team in the division that absolutely sucked eggs was the Eagles. Somehow the Redskins finished with a 5-1 divisional record. Yes; 50% of the NFCW was very good (49ers and Seahawks). Whereas, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone objective who would claim that both the Giants and Cowboys (though inconsistent this year) completely sucked. So 75% of the NFCE was at least above average. (If it were not for the Redskins, both the Giants and the Cowboys would have finished 10-6).

Click to expand...

Come on now. Be consistent.

You call the Cowboys "at least above average" at 8-8, while the Rams don't rate that same status at 7-8-1? That one tie game was that crucial, eh? Our division's top team was 1.5 games better than your division winner. Our 2nd place team was 2 full games better than your 2nd place team. Our third place team is HALF a game back of your 3rd place team. And even our last place team was better than the NFC East's basement dweller. Our division went 3-1 against yours this year, as well.

While I don't agree that the Skins would have been "6-10" in our division, I do think they might have dropped a game or two more than they did, just based on the quality of defenses we have in the NFC West.

I fail to see the inconsistency. So to be fair, let's remove the word "Above" and leave average..at 8-8. Certainly that one word doesn't invalidate my entire post (If so you're reaching). But I'm not so sure that you could say that "Most People" with no dog in this race would put the Rams over the Cowboys in power rankings.

AbsolutNET · Jan 4, 2013

Gentlemen, if you'd like to talk about the Skins mascot, please take it to the PWR forum. The main forum is for football.

volsunghawk · Jan 4, 2013

Conrad87":3unfgber said:
volsunghawk":3unfgber said:

Conrad87":3unfgber said:

And the statement that someone here made that “If the Redskins played in the NFCW they’d be 6-10 at best this season” seems very misguided. The NFC West was extremely top heavy this season.
49ers 11-4-1
Seahawks 11-5
Rams 7-8-1
Cardinals 5-11
While the argument could be made that the NFC East had more balance (albeit in a down year)
Redskins 10-6
Giants 9-7
Cowboys 8-8
Eagles 4-12

The only team in the division that absolutely sucked eggs was the Eagles. Somehow the Redskins finished with a 5-1 divisional record. Yes; 50% of the NFCW was very good (49ers and Seahawks). Whereas, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone objective who would claim that both the Giants and Cowboys (though inconsistent this year) completely sucked. So 75% of the NFCE was at least above average. (If it were not for the Redskins, both the Giants and the Cowboys would have finished 10-6).

Click to expand...

Come on now. Be consistent.

You call the Cowboys "at least above average" at 8-8, while the Rams don't rate that same status at 7-8-1? That one tie game was that crucial, eh? Our division's top team was 1.5 games better than your division winner. Our 2nd place team was 2 full games better than your 2nd place team. Our third place team is HALF a game back of your 3rd place team. And even our last place team was better than the NFC East's basement dweller. Our division went 3-1 against yours this year, as well.

While I don't agree that the Skins would have been "6-10" in our division, I do think they might have dropped a game or two more than they did, just based on the quality of defenses we have in the NFC West.

Click to expand...

If fail to see the inconsistency. So to be fair, let's remove the word "Above" and leave average..at 8-8. Certainly that one word doesn't invalidate my entire post (If so you're reaching). But I'm not so sure that you could say that "Most People" with no dog in this race would put the Rams over the Cowboys in power rankings.

Hard to say what "most people" might think regarding the Cowboys and Rams, and I wasn't attempting to invalidate the entire post. My issue was with the implication that the NFC East had 3 quality teams while the NFC West had 2... giving credit to the Cowboys while ignoring the Rams - who finished within a half game of each other, and both of which were pushing for playoff spots right up until the last couple of weeks of the season (and the Rams finished the season even hotter than the Cowboys, going 4-2 against the Cowboys' 3-3).

By most statistical measures (whether you use traditional stats on NFL.com or go with advanced stats like DVOA), the Rams and Cowboys were very close in quality this season, like reversed mirror images (Cowboys were above average on offense, below average on D while the Rams were the opposite).

Harperville · Jan 4, 2013

Conrad87":g7jsh0fh said:
Greetings to all,

Redskins fan here and I come in peace.
I’m not here to troll or to make asinine comments like “We’ll beat you because you guys suck…blah, blah, blah." I’m here because I’ve been reading your board all week and it simply puzzles me how arrogant and overconfident some here are about this weekend’s game. I mean, I’ve read comments like:

“You guys have No Shot.!”
“Our team is better than yours at every position”
“You won’t score more than 13 points on us”
“We’ll hang 50 on ya”

Really? I mean really….some speak as if the Seahawks are traveling across country to play the Maryland Terrapins this Sunday.
I get it, your team is very balanced, young, well put together, hungry, and playing exceptionally well right now.
But…...so are the Redskins. How can you rationally conclude that a professional team that has run off 7 consecutive victories and hosting a home playoff game has absolutely zero shot at winning number 8? I don’t care who that team has played. You can only play who they put in front of you.
And the statement that someone here made that “If the Redskins played in the NFCW they’d be 6-10 at best this season” seems very misguided. The NFC West was extremely top heavy this season.
49ers 11-4-1
Seahawks 11-5
Rams 7-8-1
Cardinals 5-11
While the argument could be made that the NFC East had more balance (albeit in a down year)
Redskins 10-6
Giants 9-7
Cowboys 8-8
Eagles 4-12

The only team in the division that absolutely sucked eggs was the Eagles. Somehow the Redskins finished with a 5-1 divisional record. Yes; 50% of the NFCW was very good (49ers and Seahawks). Whereas, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone objective who would claim that both the Giants and Cowboys (though inconsistent this year) completely sucked. So 75% of the NFCE was at least above average. (If it were not for the Redskins, both the Giants and the Cowboys would have finished 10-6).

Please don’t make this about our team mascot or fight song. I'm talking Football here. No, not EVERY Redskins fan is an idiot. Nor is every Redskins fan lacking in football knowledge. I can say with full confidence that I can discuss X’s and O’s with ANYONE. (I played 3 years division 1-AA ball and coach HS football). So please don’t try to tell me that schematically the Redskins have “No Shot”.
You guys have a very good team, not denial here. But this is the NFL; you just don’t win 7 straight without doing something right.

Am I saying with 100% certainty that the Redskins will win this weekend? No. But do I think we have a darn good chance? You bet I do.

So you're making the argument that three above average teams and a crap team makes for a tougher division than two stud teams (don't take my word for it, look at the end of season rankings), a mediocre team and a crap team because....there's more balance? Seahawks outside their division? 8-2. Redskins? 5-5. You feasted on an inferior division homie, but hey that's exactly what you are supposed to do. Just don't think you are on our level.

Conrad87 · Jan 4, 2013

Seahawk Sailor":2b32zyss said:
Can 'Skins fans say they'd have loved playing six games in the NFC West?

Why not?

Sure we lost a game we probably should have won (3 pts) to the Rams but so did you guys. Also, the Cards aren't scarring anyone. The 49ers are indeed good, but judging from our last time playing them (Last season) we matched up fairly well head to head.....a 2 game split is not irrational to think.

Conrad87 · Jan 4, 2013

drastik":2k60mneu said:
It's pointless to compare divisions, IMO.

I think the NFCE and NFCW are both very good, competitive divisions. I can see any team from either division, with the exception of the Eagles and Cardinals, being legit playoff contenders in the AFC.

The reason why the NFCE will always get more "shine", so to speak, is that it's home to Dallas, Washington (the two most valuable franchises in the NFL) , the New York Giants and Eagles. Every team in the division is a HUGE market team that brings the NFL tons of $$$$. So that division will always be a priority for the NFL to showcase and hype up.

I agree. I made the comparison since some here act as though the NFCW is the SEC compared to the Mountain West

Conrad87 · Jan 4, 2013

volsunghawk,

Fair enough. My intentions weren't to specifically call out the Rams vs. Cowboys..The point was some on this board seem to suggest that the difference between the two divisions was like a BCS conference and Division 3. Saying the Redskins would finish 6-10 tops was silly to me.

Conrad87 · Jan 4, 2013

Harperville":2tzd4rpm said:
Conrad87":2tzd4rpm said:

Greetings to all,

Redskins fan here and I come in peace.
I’m not here to troll or to make asinine comments like “We’ll beat you because you guys suck…blah, blah, blah." I’m here because I’ve been reading your board all week and it simply puzzles me how arrogant and overconfident some here are about this weekend’s game. I mean, I’ve read comments like:

“You guys have No Shot.!”
“Our team is better than yours at every position”
“You won’t score more than 13 points on us”
“We’ll hang 50 on ya”

Really? I mean really….some speak as if the Seahawks are traveling across country to play the Maryland Terrapins this Sunday.
I get it, your team is very balanced, young, well put together, hungry, and playing exceptionally well right now.
But…...so are the Redskins. How can you rationally conclude that a professional team that has run off 7 consecutive victories and hosting a home playoff game has absolutely zero shot at winning number 8? I don’t care who that team has played. You can only play who they put in front of you.
And the statement that someone here made that “If the Redskins played in the NFCW they’d be 6-10 at best this season” seems very misguided. The NFC West was extremely top heavy this season.
49ers 11-4-1
Seahawks 11-5
Rams 7-8-1
Cardinals 5-11
While the argument could be made that the NFC East had more balance (albeit in a down year)
Redskins 10-6
Giants 9-7
Cowboys 8-8
Eagles 4-12

The only team in the division that absolutely sucked eggs was the Eagles. Somehow the Redskins finished with a 5-1 divisional record. Yes; 50% of the NFCW was very good (49ers and Seahawks). Whereas, you’d be hard pressed to find anyone objective who would claim that both the Giants and Cowboys (though inconsistent this year) completely sucked. So 75% of the NFCE was at least above average. (If it were not for the Redskins, both the Giants and the Cowboys would have finished 10-6).

Please don’t make this about our team mascot or fight song. I'm talking Football here. No, not EVERY Redskins fan is an idiot. Nor is every Redskins fan lacking in football knowledge. I can say with full confidence that I can discuss X’s and O’s with ANYONE. (I played 3 years division 1-AA ball and coach HS football). So please don’t try to tell me that schematically the Redskins have “No Shot”.
You guys have a very good team, not denial here. But this is the NFL; you just don’t win 7 straight without doing something right.

Am I saying with 100% certainty that the Redskins will win this weekend? No. But do I think we have a darn good chance? You bet I do.

Click to expand...

So you're making the argument that three above average teams and a crap team makes for a tougher division than two stud teams (don't take my word for it, look at the end of season rankings), a mediocre team and a crap team because....there's more balance? Seahawks outside their division? 8-2. Redskins? 5-5. You feasted on an inferior division homie, but hey that's exactly what you are supposed to do. Just don't think you are on our level.

No sir, I am making the argument that to say the NFCW is miles above the NFCE is ridiculous.

"On our level" LOL...my friend...this is exactly what I'm referring to. Some here are waaayyy too confident heading into this game..Like the Seahawks are the 85 Bears...

These are two young, talented, and confident squads who are extremely hungry and motivated. If the Seahawks execute, limit mistakes, and have a superior strategy, then they will win. Likewise, for the Redskins. But in no way shape or form will one team lose simply because they weren't "On the other team's Level." That's just silly fanboy talk.

Pikachu · Jan 4, 2013

RolandDeschain":10e1th6h said:
Considering the people at extremeskins.com say anyone calling Sean Taylor a thug is racist, and that thug is a "racially-charged term", I find Fight 4 Old DC's post pretty amusing.

It is racist. You never hear white people get called thugs. If he's intimidating,Black, had long hair, he must be a thug right?

Sean Taylor was never a thug. He was a football player.

His only charge was drinking and driving. These accusations are based off his apperance, nothing more.

volsunghawk · Jan 4, 2013

Conrad87":3a3glbq2 said:
volsunghawk,

Fair enough. My intentions weren't to specifically call out the Rams vs. Cowboys..The point was some on this board seem to suggest that the difference between the two divisions was like a BCS conference and Division 3. Saying the Redskins would finish 6-10 tops was silly to me.

I'd agree with that sentiment. If it had been a comparison earlier in the season (like when Arizona started off 4-0 and all the teams in the division looked pretty damn good), it might have been different. Likewise, there was a stretch in late October/early November when both the Cowboys and Skins were in a bit of a swoon - both with records well under .500 - followed by the Giants starting off November losing two in a row.

It's likely that image of the Skins and Cowboys struggling to get back over .500, the Giants' inconsistency, and the absolute collapse of the Eagles that lead many to peg the NFC East as a significantly inferior division. Kudos to Dallas and Washington for those late season runs to push the division crown into the last week of the season (which, in my opinion, is when you want to get hot and put together a nice win streak).

But when you look at that compared to our division, we didn't really have all 4 teams struggling at points like that. The Rams were up and down most of the season while the Cards had a collapse every bit as epic as Philly's (though, I'd argue they didn't have the same expectations placed on them at the season's start). but the 49ers and Seahawks have been pretty consistently good-to-great this season. Seattle never dropped below .500 after Week 1, and the 49ers were incredibly consistent (check their win, win, non-win pattern throughout the season). That's where I think we have the edge in overall quality.

Shock2k · Jan 4, 2013

NFCE and the NFCW were almost identical.

Conrad87 · Jan 4, 2013

volsunghawk":fs3cyeeu said:
Conrad87":fs3cyeeu said:

volsunghawk,

Fair enough. My intentions weren't to specifically call out the Rams vs. Cowboys..The point was some on this board seem to suggest that the difference between the two divisions was like a BCS conference and Division 3. Saying the Redskins would finish 6-10 tops was silly to me.

Click to expand...

I'd agree with that sentiment. If it had been a comparison earlier in the season (like when Arizona started off 4-0 and all the teams in the division looked pretty damn good), it might have been different. Likewise, there was a stretch in late October/early November when both the Cowboys and Skins were in a bit of a swoon - both with records well under .500 - followed by the Giants starting off November losing two in a row.

It's likely that image of the Skins and Cowboys struggling to get back over .500, the Giants' inconsistency, and the absolute collapse of the Eagles that lead many to peg the NFC East as a significantly inferior division. Kudos to Dallas and Washington for those late season runs to push the division crown into the last week of the season (which, in my opinion, is when you want to get hot and put together a nice win streak).

But when you look at that compared to our division, we didn't really have all 4 teams struggling at points like that. The Rams were up and down most of the season while the Cards had a collapse every bit as epic as Philly's (though, I'd argue they didn't have the same expectations placed on them at the season's start). but the 49ers and Seahawks have been pretty consistently good-to-great this season. Seattle never dropped below .500 after Week 1, and the 49ers were incredibly consistent (check their win, win, non-win pattern throughout the season). That's where I think we have the edge in overall quality.

See this is the type of assessment that I can respect. You presented a solid, factually based argument. That is the basis of my argument and why I will stick by my belief that the team that has the superior strategy, and executes the more fundamentally sound game plan will win this game. As a Redskins fan (born and raised here) obviously I hope my team is victorious.

RolandDeschain · Jan 4, 2013

Pikachu":2ndf0d2i said:
His only charge was drinking and driving. These accusations are based off his apperance, nothing more.

He's a thug because of aggravated assault (which he luckily was able to plead down) and being suspected of more. I don't know where you get off saying his only charge was drinking & driving. Also, there are plenty of white thugs; you're the one making the racial distinction.

RolandDeschain · Jan 4, 2013

Shock2k":2t581exf said:
NFCE and the NFCW were almost identical.

No they weren't, look at the actual DVOA percentages. Raw # ranking does not tell the whole story.

SeaTown81 · Jan 4, 2013

I fear the wrath this comment is going to get me from Redskin nation. But whatever. The level to which they have deified Taylor is scary. Nothing against the guy. But dude was just a dude.

Conrad87 · Jan 4, 2013

SeaTown81":am3afckh said:
I fear the wrath this comment is going to get me from Redskin nation. But whatever. The level to which they have deified Taylor is scary. Nothing against the guy. But dude was just a dude.

No wrath needed. He was a young exceptionally talented player who was just beginning to touch the surface of his potential. Unfortunately he lost his life protecting his family in his own home. He wasn't out at some night club, or gang-banging on some street corner. Sure he made some stupid decisions early on as a young man..but Redskins fans watched his growth as a person and maturity level. We were excited about what we knew he could become (He was already a phenomenally talented player by that time in his young career).

He was home grown, drafted by our team not a free agent, so yes it was a tough pill to swallow when he was lost. I'm not sure if to you this is making him some sort of divinity...I can't speak for the rest of Redskins Nation..but that's how I viewed him.

RolandDeschain · Jan 4, 2013

Conrad87":3dvkngxo said:
or gang-banging on some street corner.

I guess this is true in the D.C. area, since being charged with 3 counts of felony assault is just a typical day around there...? He managed to get it dropped in a plea agreement, but still. You guys seriously need to stop beating the Sean Taylor drum around here; keep it to your own forums, please.

Back to the topic at hand. I have a question for Redskins fans. Are you at all concerned about only putting up one touchdown against an elite defense this year? Granted, I'm referring only to the Steelers game; the Ravens defense finished the year ranked 19th by Football Outsiders. Injury, age, and under-performance have made that unit go from champs to chumps in a record-setting time frame. The Seahawks finished the year #1 in defense for points allowed, which is by far the most important defensive measuring metric.

I think it will take a phenomenal day (your best of the year) on offense to put up good points against us. While that certainly might happen, I wouldn't count it as likely.

DohBoy · Jan 4, 2013

Conrad87":78xu6atf said:
I’m here because I’ve been reading your board all week and it simply puzzles me how arrogant and overconfident some here are about this weekend’s game. I mean, I’ve read comments like:

“You guys have No Shot.!”
“Our team is better than yours at every position”
“You won’t score more than 13 points on us”
“We’ll hang 50 on ya”

Really? I mean really….

If it's entertaining for you to cherry-pick commentary and take offense with it, why not stay over at ExtremeForeskin.com?

I mean, they are doing the exact same thing over there...right? Really? I mean really...

DohBoy

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