ESPN Talking heads and ROTY Discussion

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  • youngchew wrote:
    Sarlacc83 wrote:Well, if we're going to throw out that missed game, then we should probably do it for the most important stat in the NFL

    Wilson: 11 wins

    RG3: 9

    you mean 10? :mrgreen:


    RG3 won 9 games. He started 15. Cousins started 1 and won 1.
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  • [quote="Sarlacc83Wilson: 11 wins

    RG3: 9[/quote]
    Absolutely wins should be a huge factor in ROTY. But since all three major candidates are in the payoffs (one being a division champ), it's probably going to come down to stats.
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  • The talk about RGIII's injury and missed game(s), brings up the #1 reason why Russell Wilson should win ROTY over RGIII.

    Russell Wilson was there when his team needed him. He was healthy and able to start against San Francisco, the game that determined if we would be in the playoffs or not. And not only was he able to start, he came in and dominated the best defense in the NFL.

    RGIII is a gimmick. He'll be as short-lived as the other gimmicks in NFL history. He suffered injuries in college, and has already had a knee injury and a concussion. Knee injuries and concussions will end his career.

    Russell Wilson is a highly effective NFL QB. He doesn't get injured. He doesn't get flustered. All the kid does is go out and put up TDs on the board and win games. And come through when you most need him.
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  • HansGruber wrote:The talk about RGIII's injury and missed game(s), brings up the #1 reason why Russell Wilson should win ROTY over RGIII.

    Russell Wilson was there when his team needed him. He was healthy and able to start against San Francisco, the game that determined if we would be in the playoffs or not. And not only was he able to start, he came in and dominated the best defense in the NFL.

    RGIII is a gimmick. He'll be as short-lived as the other gimmicks in NFL history. He suffered injuries in college, and has already had a knee injury and a concussion. Knee injuries and concussions will end his career.

    Russell Wilson is a highly effective NFL QB. He doesn't get injured. He doesn't get flustered. All the kid does is go out and put up TDs on the board and win games. And come through when you most need him.


    Define gimmick.

    A QB completes 65% of his passes, 20/5 TD/INT ratio, 8.1 yards per attempt...If that is a gimmick, I'll take that everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

    RG3 doesnt get flustered either...whats your point?

    Also, not being injured isnt a prerequisite for winning awards.
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  • HansGruber wrote:RGIII is a gimmick. He'll be as short-lived as the other gimmicks in NFL history. He suffered injuries in college, and has already had a knee injury and a concussion. Knee injuries and concussions will end his career.

    Russell Wilson is a highly effective NFL QB. He doesn't get injured. He doesn't get flustered. All the kid does is go out and put up TDs on the board and win games. And come through when you most need him.


    Holy crap is your bias showing. You almost sound as bad as some of the idiotic Luck supporters on various Colts forums with the way you're trying to talk down about RG3 Why can't they both be great rookie QBs?

    and that second part of your statement..."he doesn't get flustered, all he does is put up TDs and win games, comes up most when you need him." Could we not say the EXACT same thing about RG3?
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  • rdskns4eva wrote:Define gimmick.


    gim·mick [gim-ik]: noun
    1. an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, especially one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

    The Redskins have successfully implemented a gimmick offense (the pistol / zone-read) based on Griffin's notoriety as a running threat. A great deal of Morris' success can be attributed directly to that. The same is true with the Seahawks and Wilson. There's a reason why Lynch is averaging 5.0 YPC.

    The problem isn't that Griffin is a gimmick. The problem is that he has a reckless running style and has suffered a knee injury as a result. An injured Griffin (in a knee brace) means no more running threat and therefore, the entire point of running the pistol is eliminated. Defenses can now key on stopping Morris, and don't need to worry about Griffin rushing out of the play action.

    You'll see it first-hand on Sunday. Seattle will be selling out on Morris and leaving a single guy in spy. With our excellent man-coverage corners, suddenly that pistol is firing blanks. We'll have a safety and our LBs standing there waiting for Griffin to come running, and then we're going to ring his bell.

    rdskns4eva wrote:A QB completes 65% of his passes, 20/5 TD/INT ratio, 8.1 yards per attempt...If that is a gimmick, I'll take that everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

    RG3 doesnt get flustered either...whats your point?


    If you get enough pressure on Griffin, he starts trying to force plays, will run when guys are open, and will fumble the ball. Keep pressuring and he stops throwing deep, starts checking down. He did it in college, and he does it in the pros, so it's hard to pin that on an OC. Griffin's never had a serious problem with INTs, but he fumbles a lot. Luckily for his ROTY award chances, the Redskins were able to recover a vast majority of those fumbles. You can try to hide behind INT numbers all you want, but you know as well as I do that he has a problem with fumbles. At least, if you've been watching him play then you do.

    rdskns4eva wrote:Also, not being injured isnt a prerequisite for winning awards.


    Since when is health not a factor in success? Fact is, Griffin didn't get the Redskins into the playoffs. It was Cousins who stepped up and won 2 games when Washington desperately needed it. Griffin was sitting on the sideline with a blown-up knee. Kid has had problems with his knee since college, and now he's getting concussions. Good luck with that. I'll stick with the kid who can get out of bounds and stay healthy.
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  • hahahahaha

    This makes me laugh. These 2 guys are so close both sides are having problems making a really complete reason for one or the other.

    :th2thumbs:
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  • HansGruber wrote:
    rdskns4eva wrote:Define gimmick.


    gim·mick [gim-ik]: noun
    1. an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, especially one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

    The Redskins have successfully implemented a gimmick offense (the pistol / zone-read) based on Griffin's notoriety as a running threat. A great deal of Morris' success can be attributed directly to that. The same is true with the Seahawks and Wilson. There's a reason why Lynch is averaging 5.0 YPC.

    The problem isn't that Griffin is a gimmick. The problem is that he has a reckless running style and has suffered a knee injury as a result. An injured Griffin (in a knee brace) means no more running threat and therefore, the entire point of running the pistol is eliminated. Defenses can now key on stopping Morris, and don't need to worry about Griffin rushing out of the play action.

    You'll see it first-hand on Sunday. Seattle will be selling out on Morris and leaving a single guy in spy. With our excellent man-coverage corners, suddenly that pistol is firing blanks. We'll have a safety and our LBs standing there waiting for Griffin to come running, and then we're going to ring his bell.

    rdskns4eva wrote:A QB completes 65% of his passes, 20/5 TD/INT ratio, 8.1 yards per attempt...If that is a gimmick, I'll take that everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

    RG3 doesnt get flustered either...whats your point?


    If you get enough pressure on Griffin, he starts trying to force plays, will run when guys are open, and will fumble the ball. Keep pressuring and he stops throwing deep, starts checking down. He did it in college, and he does it in the pros, so it's hard to pin that on an OC. Griffin's never had a serious problem with INTs, but he fumbles a lot. Luckily for his ROTY award chances, the Redskins were able to recover a vast majority of those fumbles. You can try to hide behind INT numbers all you want, but you know as well as I do that he has a problem with fumbles. At least, if you've been watching him play then you do.

    rdskns4eva wrote:Also, not being injured isnt a prerequisite for winning awards.


    Since when is health not a factor in success? Fact is, Griffin didn't get the Redskins into the playoffs. It was Cousins who stepped up and won 2 games when Washington desperately needed it. Griffin was sitting on the sideline with a blown-up knee. Kid has had problems with his knee since college, and now he's getting concussions. Good luck with that. I'll stick with the kid who can get out of bounds and stay healthy.


    Cousins won 1 game. He threw 2 passes agaisnt the Ravens. Lets not get crazy here.

    He also beat the Browns...again, lets not make the Browns out to be the 2007 Patriots. If you cant beat the Browns with a backup qb, you are not a playoff team, period.
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  • Also, that injured RG3 in a brace averaged 10 per carry on Sunday. I think he'll be fine. Word is, he may lose the brace this week for the Hawks game. We'll see. The knee is 100%. At this point, the training staff just wants him to wear it as a precaution but he doesnt need it.
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  • rdskns4eva wrote:Cousins won 1 game. He threw 2 passes agaisnt the Ravens. Lets not get crazy here.

    He also beat the Browns...again, lets not make the Browns out to be the 2007 Patriots. If you cant beat the Browns with a backup qb, you are not a playoff team, period.


    I like how you downplay Cousin's role in that win against Baltimore. I guarantee you that if the only thing Cousins did against Baltimore was to throw a couple passes, he wouldn't have got the press and the national attention that he did.

    In reality, what you don't want to admit is that Griffin was losing that game, the Redskins were down by 8. Griffin got desperate, took an unnecessary and foolish risk, and got his knee blown up by Haloti Ngata while trying to get extra yards on a scramble. And while he was laying on a stretcher on the sideline, Cousins came in, threw a touchdown and then ran in the 2-pt conversion to tie up the game and send it to OT.

    Don't make it sound like the game was wrapped up, because it wasn't. That's my whole point. You get Griffin flustered, you put pressure on him, get him down late in the game, and he's going to take foolish risks. Risks that will end his career if he doesn't change his ways.

    And that will matter against the Seahawks. Because we have a tough defense. You aren't going to outscore the Seahawks early, you're not going into the 4th quarter with a big lead. Griffin will feel the pressure, and will try to make a big play, and our defense will be there to take advantage. The gimmick won't work against a good defense because we aren't scared of RGIII running on us.
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  • rdskns4eva wrote:Also, that injured RG3 in a brace averaged 10 per carry on Sunday. I think he'll be fine. Word is, he may lose the brace this week for the Hawks game. We'll see. The knee is 100%. At this point, the training staff just wants him to wear it as a precaution but he doesnt need it.


    Good. I'm hoping he believes he is 100%. Because when he tries to cut back toward the middle of the field for a few more yards rather than sliding, he's going to get totally blown up by one of our safeties and cough up a fumble that we will recover. I'm not worried about Griffin one bit. He's yet to play a defense like Seattle. He can barely handle the average defenses like Baltimore, I can't wait to see how he reacts to a fast, young, agressive, physical defense like Seattle's. We'll see who deserves the ROTY award on Sunday.
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  • He doesnt believe he is at 100%. The doctors and training staff have said, it's 100%
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  • rdskns4eva wrote:He doesnt believe he is at 100%. The doctors and training staff have said, it's 100%


    Whatever. All I know is he is bloody meat and with our defense, everywhere past the LOS is a freaking shark tank. I can't wait to see the first time he tucks and runs. If he gets lucky enough to get past Irvin or Clemons, he'll be met by KJ Wright or Bobby Wagner. If he can get past them, he's gonna get his head knocked off by Kam Chancellor. You know, that guy that keeps sending every team's biggest TE to the sideline. If Kam misses, Brandon Browner and Richard Sherman are going to be looking to make a point to every doubter in the NFL.

    These Redskin fans are way too cocky and it cracks me up. Come back here on Monday and give us your pitch for ROTY. I can't wait to hear the excuses for Griffin.
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  • HansGruber wrote:
    rdskns4eva wrote:He doesnt believe he is at 100%. The doctors and training staff have said, it's 100%


    Whatever. All I know is he is bloody meat and with our defense, everywhere past the LOS is a freaking shark tank. I can't wait to see the first time he tucks and runs. If he gets lucky enough to get past Irvin or Clemons, he'll be met by KJ Wright or Bobby Wagner. If he can get past them, he's gonna get his head knocked off by Kam Chancellor. You know, that guy that keeps sending every team's biggest TE to the sideline. If Kam misses, Brandon Browner and Richard Sherman are going to be looking to make a point to every doubter in the NFL.

    These Redskin fans are way too cocky and it cracks me up. Come back here on Monday and give us your pitch for ROTY. I can't wait to hear the excuses for Griffin.


    I dont think I've said anything thats cocky. I told you what the coaching staff said...if thats cocky...sorry for ya.

    We'll be ok with your defense. Not concerned about your corners on run plays...we probably have the best Run blocking WR's in football.
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  • rdskns4eva wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:
    rdskns4eva wrote:He doesnt believe he is at 100%. The doctors and training staff have said, it's 100%


    Whatever. All I know is he is bloody meat and with our defense, everywhere past the LOS is a freaking shark tank. I can't wait to see the first time he tucks and runs. If he gets lucky enough to get past Irvin or Clemons, he'll be met by KJ Wright or Bobby Wagner. If he can get past them, he's gonna get his head knocked off by Kam Chancellor. You know, that guy that keeps sending every team's biggest TE to the sideline. If Kam misses, Brandon Browner and Richard Sherman are going to be looking to make a point to every doubter in the NFL.

    These Redskin fans are way too cocky and it cracks me up. Come back here on Monday and give us your pitch for ROTY. I can't wait to hear the excuses for Griffin.


    I dont think I've said anything thats cocky. I told you what the coaching staff said...if thats cocky...sorry for ya.

    We'll be ok with your defense. Not concerned about your corners on run plays...we probably have the best Run blocking WR's in football.


    Well, it's good that they can run block. Because they won't be catching many passes on Sunday.

    And by cocky, I meant that you do the same thing all Redskin fans have been doing all week - you actually compare the Seattle defense to that pathetic miserable Dallas defense. Hilarious. I find it even funnier after rewatching the Seattle-Dallas game and seeing what a struggling Seattle offense was able to do against Dallas. I also love when Redskin fans say the Seahawks only have a run game. That one is a good for a big belly laugh. Ah well, doesn't really matter. We'll all get to watch the carnage Sunday and my money is on the bigger better defense and the healthy QB (Seattle).
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  • Okay people calm down here. Griffin is an awesome rookie QB and so is Wilson. Some people act like Wilson is the almighty but he is not and neither is RG3. We'll see how their careers go in the next couple years then we can make a statement of who is better. The stats are so close and with just one season played we can't determine that.

    I am a huge Russell Wilson fan, and from watching him every Sunday this year and some in college, I just feel there is something special about him. I'm sure that's how all us hawk fans are and that's why we think of him so highly.

    The fact is that neither of them have really done anything yet. Let's see how far these rookie QBs can take each others teams in the playoffs.
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  • "And by cocky, I meant that you do the same thing all Redskin fans have been doing all week - you actually compare the Seattle defense to that pathetic miserable Dallas defense. Hilarious. I find it even funnier after rewatching the Seattle-Dallas game and seeing what a struggling Seattle offense was able to do against Dallas. I also love when Redskin fans say the Seahawks only have a run game. That one is a good for a big belly laugh. Ah well, doesn't really matter. We'll all get to watch the carnage Sunday and my money is on the bigger better defense and the healthy QB (Seattle)."

    I have not once compared weak ass Dallas to the Hawks. Come on man, really....wow. Take a moment to read my posts before lumping me in with a crowd. I've said that you guys have the most physical defense in football. And I've never said that all the Hawks have is a running neither. They Run the ball lot, yes, but they can pass it as well.
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  • rdskns4eva wrote:"And by cocky, I meant that you do the same thing all Redskin fans have been doing all week - you actually compare the Seattle defense to that pathetic miserable Dallas defense. Hilarious. I find it even funnier after rewatching the Seattle-Dallas game and seeing what a struggling Seattle offense was able to do against Dallas. I also love when Redskin fans say the Seahawks only have a run game. That one is a good for a big belly laugh. Ah well, doesn't really matter. We'll all get to watch the carnage Sunday and my money is on the bigger better defense and the healthy QB (Seattle)."

    I have not once compared weak ass Dallas to the Hawks. Come on man, really....wow. Take a moment to read my posts before lumping me in with a crowd. I've said that you guys have the most physical defense in football. And I've never said that all the Hawks have is a running neither. They Run the ball lot, yes, but they can pass it as well.


    Yeah rdskns4eva has done nothing you accuse. I'm with him on this. Let's try to be respectful to other fan bases like you would want to be if you were on their board.
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  • Bobby G can have it. Or Luck. If Wilson was hot for that award, he would have tried to throw a touchdown on that last play to break Manning's record. But he didn't, and if he doesn't care that much, neither do I.
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  • Most of the media has given this to RG3 already. I've seen a lot of folks (Rosenthal on NFL.com for one) putting it down as RG3 1st, Luck 2nd, and Wilson 3rd.

    3rd place is an incredible slight. Not that Wilson needs the motivation, but it might put a huge chip on his shoulder. He doesn't need the focus, but I'd think it would be scary to see him pissed off....yikes ! Watch out NFL. The other thing is his leadership. He's taken over this team and these guys will go to battle for him. If he gets 3rd, I can see the rest of the Hawks rally around him and make the rest of the NFL pay for disrespecting their leader.
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  • A friendly reminder to redskins fans:

    1. You're on a Seahawks board, what do you expect?

    2. You aren't interested in having your mind changed, either.
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  • I really think there is no debate here though. With all the talk about RGlll to me it is a lock. I would be very very surprised if anyone other than him or Luck win. When is this announced anyway?
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  • If Wilson actually hadn't pull in several games in the 4th quarter.... thinking he'd have better stats. Were too far ahead at times this season.


    Mr. Lynch would also.

    I recall he has something like 35 less carries and less than 40 yards, under Morris.
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Re: ESPN Talking heads and ROTY Discussion
Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:40 am
  • I got side-tracked, and my responses were to all the comments I've been reading online everywhere, including at extremeskins.com. Wasn't fair to redskin4eva, and my bad for gettting sidetracked, apologies to everyone.

    To get back on point: it's absurd that RGIII could win a ROTY award over anyone who was able to stay healthy the whole season. Griffin was injured because of his playing style. Which speaks directly to his skill as a player, and the impact of that skill on his team. Had Cousins been a no-talent hack, the Redskins would not be in the playoffs.

    In contrast, Russell Wilson has stayed healthy because of his playing style. Both QBs played the same offensive scheme. Both scrambled and made big plays with their legs. Only Russell Wilson was able to stay healthy and win the division game that ensured a playoff berth for his team.

    IMHO, it's a big deal. And if RGIII wins the ROTY award over any other players who were able to stay healthy, it just shows that the ROTY award is as big of a popularity party and a sham as the Pro-Bowl.
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