ESPN Talking heads and ROTY Discussion

KARAVARUS · Jan 2, 2013

I could see the award going to any of these guys. And to be perfectly honest with you all, I don't really care who they decide on. In fact, let them decide on RG3 or Luck, and let us go to the Super Bowl. Win or lose, you can't at that point, argue that there was a better rookie QB than Russell Wilson.

Joey13091 · Jan 2, 2013

SkinsGuru":h8e1twt7 said:
Joey13091":h8e1twt7 said:

youngchew":h8e1twt7 said:

SkinsFan46 said:

If you were to put RW or RGIII in Indy, do you think either one of them have the type of seasons they are having? Not likely. Both of these QBs benefit from having great rushing attacks and that takes a ton of pressure off a young QB.

I'll take RGIII over RW any day of the week, but I would give my nod to OROY (offensive rookie of year) to RW or Alfred Morris. Why? Because quite simply RGIII hasn't finished 2 games this season due to injury and sat out a complete game. The Redskins have shown that they can win without RGIII, but what they haven't shown is they can win without Alfred Morris. This rookie RB has broken Clinton Portis franchise record for most yards in a season, and finished second in the NFL in rushing yards. How in the hell did this guy not make the pro-bowl?....lol

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fair point about Luck, and No, i doubt wilson nor RG3 would have had the same success in Indy

but to argue your point about Morris...are you saying Morris does more for RG3 than Lynch does for Wilson? I'd say they benefit evenly. the difference between Lynch and Morris' total rushing yards this season is less than 50 (i think).

And to say that the Redskins proved they could win without RG3...i mean, i guess that's a true statement. But Kirk Cousins went out and beat the crappy Cleveland Browns (yes, i know they were coming in on a 3-game winning streak).

And I know we won't have a chance to find out this year, but I'm sure if Matt Flynn would've come in for Wilson and played against a bad team like the Browns, he mighit've been able to win as well.

And not that it has a direct impact on the offense, but Wilson benefits from having the 2nd best defense in the entire nfl. Redskins defense is ranked 27th overall.

and yeah, LOL @ Gore making the pro bowl over Morris. I think Morris has nearly 300 more rushing yards and 5 more touchdowns than Gore. :34853_doh:

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The reason he didn't make the pro bowl is because it's a popularity contest. It's bull shit

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while the pro bowl is a bit of a popularity contest, on 33.3% of the vote comes from the fans . . . an additional 33.3% comes from the players votes and another 33.3% comes from the coaches votes . . . that being said, due to the last 3 games (one in which out and two serviceable but unspectacular games) puts Wilson into the lead . . . IF they would i would think that co-rookies of the year would be interested and that would really rile up the luck fan base . . . lol

I'm just saying one of the biggest pro bowl snubs this year is Richard Sherman and also Alfred Morris. Some players get voted in constantly and have mediocre years.

Joey13091 · Jan 2, 2013

As far as ROTY really all these guys mentioned could win and I will be satisfied with either they choose. They all deserve it with what they have accomplished as rookies. I would just be more excited if wilson won.

SkinsGuru · Jan 2, 2013

Joey13091":pwrpcnnr said:
youngchew":pwrpcnnr said:

SkinsFan46":pwrpcnnr said:

If you were to put RW or RGIII in Indy, do you think either one of them have the type of seasons they are having? Not likely. Both of these QBs benefit from having great rushing attacks and that takes a ton of pressure off a young QB.

I'll take RGIII over RW any day of the week, but I would give my nod to OROY (offensive rookie of year) to RW or Alfred Morris. Why? Because quite simply RGIII hasn't finished 2 games this season due to injury and sat out a complete game. The Redskins have shown that they can win without RGIII, but what they haven't shown is they can win without Alfred Morris. This rookie RB has broken Clinton Portis franchise record for most yards in a season, and finished second in the NFL in rushing yards. How in the hell did this guy not make the pro-bowl?....lol

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fair point about Luck, and No, i doubt wilson nor RG3 would have had the same success in Indy

but to argue your point about Morris...are you saying Morris does more for RG3 than Lynch does for Wilson? I'd say they benefit evenly. the difference between Lynch and Morris' total rushing yards this season is less than 50 (i think).

And to say that the Redskins proved they could win without RG3...i mean, i guess that's a true statement. But Kirk Cousins went out and beat the crappy Cleveland Browns (yes, i know they were coming in on a 3-game winning streak).

And I know we won't have a chance to find out this year, but I'm sure if Matt Flynn would've come in for Wilson and played against a bad team like the Browns, he mighit've been able to win as well.

And not that it has a direct impact on the offense, but Wilson benefits from having the 2nd best defense in the entire nfl. Redskins defense is ranked 27th overall.

and yeah, LOL @ Gore making the pro bowl over Morris. I think Morris has nearly 300 more rushing yards and 5 more touchdowns than Gore. :34853_doh:

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The reason he didn't make the pro bowl is because it's a popularity contest. It's bull shit

while the pro bowl is a bit of a popularity contest, on 33.3% of the vote comes from the fans . . . an additional 33.3% comes from the players votes and another 33.3% comes from the coaches votes . . . that being said, due to the last 3 games (one in which out and two serviceable but unspectacular games) puts Wilson into the lead . . . IF they would i would think that co-rookies of the year would be interested and that would really rile up the luck fan base . . . lol

I'm just saying one of the biggest pro bowl snubs this year is Richard Sherman and also Alfred Morris. Some players get bored in constantly and have mediocre years.

agreed for sure . . . how in the world did frank gore get in over morris?? or how Tillman and Peterson got in over Sherman i will never know either though i think Sherman got docked a bit due to the positive test for PED's . . .

Sarlacc83 · Jan 2, 2013

youngchew":3htuw1n9 said:
Wilson has been very good this year, but outside of his MONSTER December, he's been good but not elite. RG3 is ahead of Wilson in every single statistical category. RG3 is better than Wilson in QB rating, Passer rating, total passing yards, total rushing yards, Completion percentage, average yards per pass, and TD/INT ratio. There is not a single QB stat where Wilson is better than RG3. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. see all the stats for yourselves... http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... asontype/2

How come you didn't mention straight touchdown numbers? Where Wilson is better than RGIII and would have been more so if our D/ST hadn't taken it to the Cardinals without his help.

rdskns4eva · Jan 2, 2013

Sarlacc83":3cezt4ma said:
youngchew":3cezt4ma said:

Wilson has been very good this year, but outside of his MONSTER December, he's been good but not elite. RG3 is ahead of Wilson in every single statistical category. RG3 is better than Wilson in QB rating, Passer rating, total passing yards, total rushing yards, Completion percentage, average yards per pass, and TD/INT ratio. There is not a single QB stat where Wilson is better than RG3. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. see all the stats for yourselves... http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... asontype/2

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How come you didn't mention straight touchdown numbers? Where Wilson is better than RGIII and would have been more so if our D/ST hadn't taken it to the Cardinals without his help.

Wilson is ahead in TD, but remember, its only by two and RG3 missed 1.5 games, so it is far to say that he would have matched or exceeded that number. Of course it's fair to say that he would have thrown 4 picks as well.

Sarlacc83 · Jan 2, 2013

rdskns4eva":3niw2tsa said:
Sarlacc83":3niw2tsa said:

youngchew":3niw2tsa said:

Wilson has been very good this year, but outside of his MONSTER December, he's been good but not elite. RG3 is ahead of Wilson in every single statistical category. RG3 is better than Wilson in QB rating, Passer rating, total passing yards, total rushing yards, Completion percentage, average yards per pass, and TD/INT ratio. There is not a single QB stat where Wilson is better than RG3. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. see all the stats for yourselves... http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... asontype/2

Click to expand...

How come you didn't mention straight touchdown numbers? Where Wilson is better than RGIII and would have been more so if our D/ST hadn't taken it to the Cardinals without his help.

Click to expand...

Wilson is ahead in TD, but remember, its only by two and RG3 missed 1.5 games, so it is far to say that he would have matched or exceeded that number. Of course it's fair to say that he would have thrown 4 picks as well.

Well, if we're going to throw out that missed game, then we should probably do it for the most important stat in the NFL

Wilson: 11 wins

RG3: 9

youngchew · Jan 2, 2013

Sarlacc83":41ye6qba said:
Well, if we're going to throw out that missed game, then we should probably do it for the most important stat in the NFL

Wilson: 11 wins

RG3: 9

you mean 10? :mrgreen:

Sarlacc83 · Jan 2, 2013

youngchew":3rvarrjg said:
Sarlacc83":3rvarrjg said:

Well, if we're going to throw out that missed game, then we should probably do it for the most important stat in the NFL

Wilson: 11 wins

RG3: 9

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you mean 10? :mrgreen:

9. Unless RGIII and Kirk Cousins are actually one in the same. :34853_tinfoil:

rdskns4eva · Jan 2, 2013

youngchew":195uvduk said:
Sarlacc83":195uvduk said:

Well, if we're going to throw out that missed game, then we should probably do it for the most important stat in the NFL

Wilson: 11 wins

RG3: 9

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you mean 10? :mrgreen:

RG3 won 9 games. He started 15. Cousins started 1 and won 1.

rdskns4eva · Jan 2, 2013

Sarlacc83Wilson: 11 wins RG3: 9[/quote said:
Absolutely wins should be a huge factor in ROTY. But since all three major candidates are in the payoffs (one being a division champ), it's probably going to come down to stats.

HansGruber · Jan 2, 2013

The talk about RGIII's injury and missed game(s), brings up the #1 reason why Russell Wilson should win ROTY over RGIII.

Russell Wilson was there when his team needed him. He was healthy and able to start against San Francisco, the game that determined if we would be in the playoffs or not. And not only was he able to start, he came in and dominated the best defense in the NFL.

RGIII is a gimmick. He'll be as short-lived as the other gimmicks in NFL history. He suffered injuries in college, and has already had a knee injury and a concussion. Knee injuries and concussions will end his career.

Russell Wilson is a highly effective NFL QB. He doesn't get injured. He doesn't get flustered. All the kid does is go out and put up TDs on the board and win games. And come through when you most need him.

rdskns4eva · Jan 2, 2013

HansGruber":1mgvk909 said:
The talk about RGIII's injury and missed game(s), brings up the #1 reason why Russell Wilson should win ROTY over RGIII.

Russell Wilson was there when his team needed him. He was healthy and able to start against San Francisco, the game that determined if we would be in the playoffs or not. And not only was he able to start, he came in and dominated the best defense in the NFL.

RGIII is a gimmick. He'll be as short-lived as the other gimmicks in NFL history. He suffered injuries in college, and has already had a knee injury and a concussion. Knee injuries and concussions will end his career.

Russell Wilson is a highly effective NFL QB. He doesn't get injured. He doesn't get flustered. All the kid does is go out and put up TDs on the board and win games. And come through when you most need him.

Define gimmick.

A QB completes 65% of his passes, 20/5 TD/INT ratio, 8.1 yards per attempt...If that is a gimmick, I'll take that everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

RG3 doesnt get flustered either...whats your point?

Also, not being injured isnt a prerequisite for winning awards.

youngchew · Jan 2, 2013

HansGruber":3rlf6q8p said:
RGIII is a gimmick. He'll be as short-lived as the other gimmicks in NFL history. He suffered injuries in college, and has already had a knee injury and a concussion. Knee injuries and concussions will end his career.

Russell Wilson is a highly effective NFL QB. He doesn't get injured. He doesn't get flustered. All the kid does is go out and put up TDs on the board and win games. And come through when you most need him.

Holy crap is your bias showing. You almost sound as bad as some of the idiotic Luck supporters on various Colts forums with the way you're trying to talk down about RG3 Why can't they both be great rookie QBs?

and that second part of your statement..."he doesn't get flustered, all he does is put up TDs and win games, comes up most when you need him." Could we not say the EXACT same thing about RG3?

HansGruber · Jan 2, 2013

rdskns4eva":26jzin87 said:
Define gimmick.

gim·mick [gim-ik]: noun
1. an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, especially one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

The Redskins have successfully implemented a gimmick offense (the pistol / zone-read) based on Griffin's notoriety as a running threat. A great deal of Morris' success can be attributed directly to that. The same is true with the Seahawks and Wilson. There's a reason why Lynch is averaging 5.0 YPC.

The problem isn't that Griffin is a gimmick. The problem is that he has a reckless running style and has suffered a knee injury as a result. An injured Griffin (in a knee brace) means no more running threat and therefore, the entire point of running the pistol is eliminated. Defenses can now key on stopping Morris, and don't need to worry about Griffin rushing out of the play action.

You'll see it first-hand on Sunday. Seattle will be selling out on Morris and leaving a single guy in spy. With our excellent man-coverage corners, suddenly that pistol is firing blanks. We'll have a safety and our LBs standing there waiting for Griffin to come running, and then we're going to ring his bell.

rdskns4eva":26jzin87 said:
A QB completes 65% of his passes, 20/5 TD/INT ratio, 8.1 yards per attempt...If that is a gimmick, I'll take that everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

RG3 doesnt get flustered either...whats your point?

If you get enough pressure on Griffin, he starts trying to force plays, will run when guys are open, and will fumble the ball. Keep pressuring and he stops throwing deep, starts checking down. He did it in college, and he does it in the pros, so it's hard to pin that on an OC. Griffin's never had a serious problem with INTs, but he fumbles a lot. Luckily for his ROTY award chances, the Redskins were able to recover a vast majority of those fumbles. You can try to hide behind INT numbers all you want, but you know as well as I do that he has a problem with fumbles. At least, if you've been watching him play then you do.

rdskns4eva":26jzin87 said:
Also, not being injured isnt a prerequisite for winning awards.

Since when is health not a factor in success? Fact is, Griffin didn't get the Redskins into the playoffs. It was Cousins who stepped up and won 2 games when Washington desperately needed it. Griffin was sitting on the sideline with a blown-up knee. Kid has had problems with his knee since college, and now he's getting concussions. Good luck with that. I'll stick with the kid who can get out of bounds and stay healthy.

The Radish · Jan 2, 2013

hahahahaha

This makes me laugh. These 2 guys are so close both sides are having problems making a really complete reason for one or the other.

:th2thumbs:

rdskns4eva · Jan 2, 2013

HansGruber":mbldej50 said:
rdskns4eva":mbldej50 said:

Define gimmick.

Click to expand...

gim·mick [gim-ik]: noun
1. an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, especially one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

The Redskins have successfully implemented a gimmick offense (the pistol / zone-read) based on Griffin's notoriety as a running threat. A great deal of Morris' success can be attributed directly to that. The same is true with the Seahawks and Wilson. There's a reason why Lynch is averaging 5.0 YPC.

The problem isn't that Griffin is a gimmick. The problem is that he has a reckless running style and has suffered a knee injury as a result. An injured Griffin (in a knee brace) means no more running threat and therefore, the entire point of running the pistol is eliminated. Defenses can now key on stopping Morris, and don't need to worry about Griffin rushing out of the play action.

You'll see it first-hand on Sunday. Seattle will be selling out on Morris and leaving a single guy in spy. With our excellent man-coverage corners, suddenly that pistol is firing blanks. We'll have a safety and our LBs standing there waiting for Griffin to come running, and then we're going to ring his bell.

rdskns4eva":mbldej50 said:

A QB completes 65% of his passes, 20/5 TD/INT ratio, 8.1 yards per attempt...If that is a gimmick, I'll take that everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

RG3 doesnt get flustered either...whats your point?

Click to expand...

If you get enough pressure on Griffin, he starts trying to force plays, will run when guys are open, and will fumble the ball. Keep pressuring and he stops throwing deep, starts checking down. He did it in college, and he does it in the pros, so it's hard to pin that on an OC. Griffin's never had a serious problem with INTs, but he fumbles a lot. Luckily for his ROTY award chances, the Redskins were able to recover a vast majority of those fumbles. You can try to hide behind INT numbers all you want, but you know as well as I do that he has a problem with fumbles. At least, if you've been watching him play then you do.

rdskns4eva":mbldej50 said:

Also, not being injured isnt a prerequisite for winning awards.

Click to expand...

Since when is health not a factor in success? Fact is, Griffin didn't get the Redskins into the playoffs. It was Cousins who stepped up and won 2 games when Washington desperately needed it. Griffin was sitting on the sideline with a blown-up knee. Kid has had problems with his knee since college, and now he's getting concussions. Good luck with that. I'll stick with the kid who can get out of bounds and stay healthy.

Cousins won 1 game. He threw 2 passes agaisnt the Ravens. Lets not get crazy here.

He also beat the Browns...again, lets not make the Browns out to be the 2007 Patriots. If you cant beat the Browns with a backup qb, you are not a playoff team, period.

rdskns4eva · Jan 2, 2013

Also, that injured RG3 in a brace averaged 10 per carry on Sunday. I think he'll be fine. Word is, he may lose the brace this week for the Hawks game. We'll see. The knee is 100%. At this point, the training staff just wants him to wear it as a precaution but he doesnt need it.

HansGruber · Jan 2, 2013

rdskns4eva":vr3gkufp said:
Cousins won 1 game. He threw 2 passes agaisnt the Ravens. Lets not get crazy here.

He also beat the Browns...again, lets not make the Browns out to be the 2007 Patriots. If you cant beat the Browns with a backup qb, you are not a playoff team, period.

I like how you downplay Cousin's role in that win against Baltimore. I guarantee you that if the only thing Cousins did against Baltimore was to throw a couple passes, he wouldn't have got the press and the national attention that he did.

In reality, what you don't want to admit is that Griffin was losing that game, the Redskins were down by 8. Griffin got desperate, took an unnecessary and foolish risk, and got his knee blown up by Haloti Ngata while trying to get extra yards on a scramble. And while he was laying on a stretcher on the sideline, Cousins came in, threw a touchdown and then ran in the 2-pt conversion to tie up the game and send it to OT.

Don't make it sound like the game was wrapped up, because it wasn't. That's my whole point. You get Griffin flustered, you put pressure on him, get him down late in the game, and he's going to take foolish risks. Risks that will end his career if he doesn't change his ways.

And that will matter against the Seahawks. Because we have a tough defense. You aren't going to outscore the Seahawks early, you're not going into the 4th quarter with a big lead. Griffin will feel the pressure, and will try to make a big play, and our defense will be there to take advantage. The gimmick won't work against a good defense because we aren't scared of RGIII running on us.

HansGruber · Jan 2, 2013

rdskns4eva":2zo2665z said:
Also, that injured RG3 in a brace averaged 10 per carry on Sunday. I think he'll be fine. Word is, he may lose the brace this week for the Hawks game. We'll see. The knee is 100%. At this point, the training staff just wants him to wear it as a precaution but he doesnt need it.

Good. I'm hoping he believes he is 100%. Because when he tries to cut back toward the middle of the field for a few more yards rather than sliding, he's going to get totally blown up by one of our safeties and cough up a fumble that we will recover. I'm not worried about Griffin one bit. He's yet to play a defense like Seattle. He can barely handle the average defenses like Baltimore, I can't wait to see how he reacts to a fast, young, agressive, physical defense like Seattle's. We'll see who deserves the ROTY award on Sunday.

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