The future of Matt Flynn

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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:30 pm
  • CALIHAWK1 wrote:[

    I think Barkley is way over hyped. Let's get that out of the way. Now I have seen several prognosticators (mcshay, schrager) with him out of the first round. I will say I don't agree with that but him being ruled out of the bowl game with a bad throwing shoulder after a month off isn't going to help his cause. I also think that the 2011 class isn't helping either.


    On topic, he has to restructure or kick rocks. The entire secondary has their contract come up within a year other two respectively. Okung is coming up. LTs and CBs are expensive. Way too much talent needing to be paid.



    As a Dawg fan, I will be watching Barkley's replacement, Wittek, vs ND very closely. If I am seeing what I (fear) think I am seeing, USC won't miss Matt Barkley...and that sux.

    On Flynn: Too frequently I am seeing the phrase "career back-up" when referencing him. I mean, was he backing up Favre and Rodgers or Sanchez and Tebow? That should be considered before using such a phrase. Besides, "career back up" isn't really all that bad of a thing. He has been around the NFL for quite some time without getting beat to a pulp. I like that about him. But some think he's a bum because he couldn't beat out Rodgers? Really? He's our second "career back-up" from the QB factory that is GB. If he's anything like the first, he's a keeper in my book.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:39 pm
  • Someone earlier called Flynn a "poor man's Matt Ryan" and intended it as a compliment, but I don't think that comparison does Flynn any favors. Ryan is a limited QB who needed a good offense to boost him, definitely on the "system" side of the QB spectrum. What kind of talent did it take to lift the Falcons to the top of the NFC this year? Four first-rounders, four second-rounders, and two fourth-rounders between Roddy White, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, and the offensive line. I don't even want to know that cap hit, and that's without the contracts of Michael Turner or the defense.

    No struggling team is going to want a high-maintenance QB who requires that kind of expenditure to build around. Some of the pieces will already have to be there, which shrinks the market as some of those teams are entirely bankrupt on offense.

    In examining Flynn's market, I highly doubt that Matt Barkley, Geno Smith, OR Tyler Wilson get out of the Top 5. The Chiefs, Jaguars, Raiders, and possibly Buffalo are all picking there and at least three of them will be doing so with new head coaches and/or GM's.

    Cleveland and Tennessee are 50/50 to look for a free-agent QB. So are Philly and the Jets; Nick Foles and Greg McElroy might have done enough to earn themselves a look considering that neither team will have a shot at the Top 3 QB's in the draft.

    Then you have to remember that next year's market will also include Tim Tebow (he'll still sell tickets) and Alex Smith (who went down because of injury and lost momentum to the younger guy, not because he was sucking). Between all these factors, I still don't see Flynn's market being all that terribly wide.

    That's not to say it will be non-existent. If our own community's reaction back in March is any indicator, Flynn might sell tickets. But we're talking about Matt Ryan arm strength and mobility here, the range of QB that requires more help before he can start giving help. It's hard to envision any of the floundering teams in the #5-10 range going "Yeah, this guy is a franchise savior" and coughing up a major draft pick for him. He's the next best option to the Top 3 QB's, maybe, and even then a lot of those teams still have other options. The only team I can see with enough talent to enable Flynn is maybe the Jets, and after years of Mark Sanchez, I don't think anyone there is going to get excited about the prospect of another mediocre-armed QB.

    Late round pick at best, probably, is all Flynn can get us.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:53 pm
  • Why is someone trying to argue that people are suggesting this isn't about money?

    Of course it's about money. It's about having more money to improve the starting roster of the team and have maximum potential to re-sign key starters in the future. That's how you keep growing. Alternatively we can eat one of the most expensive contracts on the roster for a guy who will likely be holding a clipboard again next year. And my point still stands - if you don't trust PC and JS to find a cheaper, capable backup QB to replace Flynn... it really is time to buy in.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:03 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Late round pick at best, probably, is all Flynn can get us.


    Replace the name Flynn with Palmer and that's what Marvin Lewis once told Mike Brown. ;)
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:15 pm
  • HawkWow wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Late round pick at best, probably, is all Flynn can get us.


    Replace the name Flynn with Palmer and that's what Marvin Lewis once told Mike Brown. ;)


    Just because one team made that mistake doesn't mean another will.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:22 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    The Radish wrote:You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams.


    This is true, Les. And just because Flynn may never see a meaningful snap doesn't mean that the $7-8 mil is being wasted. Backup QB's are a big deal.

    But even as it stands now, Seattle does not have anywhere near the cap room to sign the Terex-Titan-truckload of elite talent with ominous contract dates coming up. The team needs every penny it can free up. Flynn, given his total physical mismatch for the system, is a prime target.


    The Radish wrote:I think some of you just are never completely happy and have to think up outragous things for something to do.

    :141847_bnono:


    Well, I can't argue with that.
    There is still an elephant in the quarterback room when the guy taking the snaps has a gamecheck 1/16th the size of the backup guy.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:38 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    HawkWow wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Late round pick at best, probably, is all Flynn can get us.


    Replace the name Flynn with Palmer and that's what Marvin Lewis once told Mike Brown. ;)


    Just because one team made that mistake doesn't mean another will.


    True, but Palmer isn't the first or last time such a thing has happened. With Flynn under contract, any team that has interest in him will have to dive into the shark tank with JS. If we can't get what we want for him, I am certain he will remain a Hawk. There is no benefit to us trading him for a late rd pick, IMO.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:13 pm
  • The Radish wrote:He can make $3 million a year and hopefully not get his uniform dirty. Not a Super Bowl but damned sure better than most backup QBs can expect.


    Uh, he's not making $3 million a year. He's making $15.5 million over the next two seasons. And the Seahawks could use the money right now.

    HawkWow wrote:There is no benefit to us trading him for a late rd pick, IMO.


    That is only true if you think Flynn is worth $7.25 million next year. I personally do not. Trade him, turn that pick into this year's equivalent of Kirk Cousins and pay him 1/15th as much. Then use that money in 2013 and 2014 to improve your roster and ensure that Baldwin, Chancellor, Browner, and Thurmond remain Seahawks.

    People shouldn't forget money when evaluating players. Value added per dollar is the true measure of a players worth to a franchise- it's the very reason why Green Bay, Seattle, and Pittsburgh have so adamantly professed building through the draft instead of FA because the draft has by far the best value per dollar you can find. More value per dollar means more total talent which means more wins.
    Last edited by kearly on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:27 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Someone earlier called Flynn a "poor man's Matt Ryan" and intended it as a compliment, but I don't think that comparison does Flynn any favors. Ryan is a limited QB who needed a good offense to boost him, definitely on the "system" side of the QB spectrum. What kind of talent did it take to lift the Falcons to the top of the NFC this year? Four first-rounders, four second-rounders, and two fourth-rounders between Roddy White, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, and the offensive line. I don't even want to know that cap hit, and that's without the contracts of Michael Turner or the defense.


    That was me. And I agree, Flynn will probably need a strong supporting cast to find success, just like Ryan does.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:36 pm
  • Scottemojo wrote: There is still an elephant in the quarterback room when the guy taking the snaps has a gamecheck 1/16th the size of the backup guy.


    How is it an elephant in the room? RW is in a rookie contract and it doesn't matter to him if the other guy makes one dollar or $10million dollars...
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:52 am
  • Well after reading through the thread I'm rather in the court of moving Flynn.

    I think a 4th is completely reasonable for Flynn. Looking at what other teams have offered for QB's and the number of options available I can't see at least one team not jumping for Flynn. It only takes one. I could see a team doing exactly what we did last year, not to mention I don't think this set of rookie QB's will be quite as NFL ready. The money is not an issue for a number of teams that have huge cap spaces they need to fill.

    I think there are teams out there kicking themselves for not going for Flynn. One thing I never ever understood was the Browns not going for Flynn. Honestly Weeden is pretty damn similar, was a rookie, and cost a FIRST ROUND PICK. What the hell...

    Even if it's more in the 5th-6th range it'd still make sense I think. We do need to clear money and honestly the way Pete has talked about rookie QB's and Schneider speaking of taking QB's every year if available means a rookie backup QB could be very likely. Bring in a vet and have a competition behind RW. Pete would love that.

    Remember that Pete is extremely adamant about making the QB's job as easy as possible. I think that the way our team is built we can survive without an "elite level backup". We could probably survive with a cheap risk-averse veteran. I'm sure Pete and John talk about how dollars are allocated. Backup QB probably isn't a spot they have to invest a ton in. Russell Wilson isn't the least bit injury prone and I imagine the more he learns the less read option they run and add talent too the offense.

    Most teams don't have elite backups, not that in itself makes it bad, but it's a luxury and rarely plays a huge factor in season. I'd rather have a higher ceiling with Russell in most of our games, than a bit better chance to win if Russell misses a few games. CHARLIE got us a win against the Rams to get to the playoffs and beat the Giants in NY. Not that he really "won" either, but we sure didn't lose the games right?

    And I kinda want to see Flynn get a job somewhere. I know some of you don't care about that stuff, but I think it should factor a little. Makes the FO look better.

    Some of the cold hearted renegotiations combined with moving Flynn could play a huge factor in upgrading next years squad and keeping the core together.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:14 am
  • mikeak wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote: There is still an elephant in the quarterback room when the guy taking the snaps has a gamecheck 1/16th the size of the backup guy.


    How is it an elephant in the room? RW is in a rookie contract and it doesn't matter to him if the other guy makes one dollar or $10million dollars...


    I guess we disagree. Again.

    Just a guess on my part, Flynn will not be in uniform for the Hawks when the '13 regular season begins.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:16 am
  • I think whats really being said here is the Money spent on Flynn could be used else where to keep what we have in place.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:50 pm
  • I can't figure out why anyone would think that we would cut Flynn. I believe he's worth a 3rd round pick at minimum. At worst, we could get a 5th or 6th for him. We got what? A 6th for TJack? We gave up a 3rd+ for Whitehurst. Look around the league and see what teams are giving up for a QB.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:22 pm
  • I don't see how Flynn would have gone from having little interest in FA (yeah Manning blah blah blah, doesn't explain pretty much zero interest) to being worth a 3rd rounder to a team. Flynn hasn't done anything to raise his stock this year from coming off of the big numbers in GB.

    TJack is going to yield us a 7th, the 6th was conditional. He's worth a low pick because he's shown to be a so-so stop gap option at the position but will never be a franchise guy. That could very well be how teams view Flynn. We blew it with Charlie because apparently John or Pete thought Charlie could be a potential franchise QB and the Chargers having no urgency to move him were in a strong position, so we overpaid. It was a mistake. Other GMs are going to see our cap situation and our upcoming expiring contracts and know that the Hawks would really like to move Flynn, and they're probably right. If a team believes he's a franchise guy we might be able to squeeze them, but barring that, we're going to be talking about a late round pick + the other big benefit which is freeing up some important cap space.

    If they can pull off something more I'd be ecstatic, just don't see it as likely.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:34 pm
  • If Flynn was a free agent and we didn't have any other backup QB under contract, would anyone here want to sign him for 2 years and $15.5 million to be the backup instead of getting some other backup for a fraction of the cost? If not, why would you want to keep him around under that contract if we could trade him for any compensation and use that money in other areas?
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:59 pm
  • I guess my real thoughts here are not about money but about the success of the current team.

    Lets say we trade Flynn and run down some also ran for a backup. First game of next season Wilson gets hurt and is out for 4-5 games and we have no one with any experience in our offense or even team for that matter.

    Then how does your $15 million argument stand up?

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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:21 pm
  • The Radish wrote:I guess my real thoughts here are not about money but about the success of the current team.

    Lets say we trade Flynn and run down some also ran for a backup. First game of next season Wilson gets hurt and is out for 4-5 games and we have no one with any experience in our offense or even team for that matter.

    Then how does your $15 million argument stand up?

    :les:


    By that logic, we should keep Flynn for the rest of Wilson's career, purely because of his experience. At some point you have to go out and find someone cheaper.

    Maybe one year while we draft and train a capable backup.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:28 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    The Radish wrote:I guess my real thoughts here are not about money but about the success of the current team.

    Lets say we trade Flynn and run down some also ran for a backup. First game of next season Wilson gets hurt and is out for 4-5 games and we have no one with any experience in our offense or even team for that matter.

    Then how does your $15 million argument stand up?

    :les:


    By that logic, we should keep Flynn for the rest of Wilson's career, purely because of his experience. At some point you have to go out and find someone cheaper.

    Maybe one year while we draft and train a capable backup.



    Never said keep him forever. I have said in my personal opinion it would be stupid to get rid of him prior to next season. And if nothing can be found next year then bite bullit and keep him another.

    It takes time to find a good quality backup that fits with your team. There are just so many David Greenes out there.

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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:31 pm
  • The Radish wrote:I guess my real thoughts here are not about money but about the success of the current team.

    Lets say we trade Flynn and run down some also ran for a backup. First game of next season Wilson gets hurt and is out for 4-5 games and we have no one with any experience in our offense or even team for that matter.

    Then how does your $15 million argument stand up?

    :les:

    Well, if you used the 15 million to lock up a couple of our own, plus sign a decent backup QB for a lot less than you are paying the current guy, it stands up pretty good.

    Les, I trust these guys. If Flynn goes, do we have any reason to think they won't have somebody decent to back up Russell next year?
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:38 pm
  • pinksheets wrote:I don't see how Flynn would have gone from having little interest in FA (yeah Manning blah blah blah, doesn't explain pretty much zero interest) to being worth a 3rd rounder to a team. Flynn hasn't done anything to raise his stock this year from coming off of the big numbers in GB.


    You can't judge this year by last years results. Those disinterested teams thought they had it made with Gabbert/Kolb/Ponder/Palmer/Vick/Freeman/Sanchez+Tebow/Fitzpatrick/Weeden/Cassell/Locker. They found out otherwise.

    So do they continue with what they have, take a chance using a 1st round pick on a QB again? Or maybe they use a 2nd, 3rd or 4th round pick on a QB? Highly unproductive way of finding a franchise QB.

    They could go after a trade/free agent that has had a modicum of success. It all depends on their situation. If they believe they have a talented team and are just a Quarterback away, I think a team would consider trading for Flynn. If they think they need someone that can start while their young QBOTF learns, or one that knows how to prepare to start in the NFL to mentor their young QB, I think they would consider someone like Flynn over the scraps that are on the street.

    Anyway, there are a lot of variables including a front office's tenure and it's impossible to predict with any accuracy. But I believe with the current QB/FO situation being so unsettled on so many teams that Matt Flynn has that kind of value. Only time will tell.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:41 pm
  • I've seen a few people here suggest the Eagles trade for Flynn and being the resident Eagles fan here, Allow me to just say no thank you.

    Foles has performed decently considering how down the Eagles offensive side of the ball has been. In the games Nick Foles has started, he's been without

    #1 WR DeSean Jackson
    #1 RB Shady McCoy
    #1 TE Brent Celek
    #1 LT Jason Peters
    #1 C Jason Kelce
    #1 RG Danny Watkins (although I tend not to count this since he's terrible)
    #1 RT Todd Herremans

    Now he had a few of those guys for a game or two but for the most part, he's been working with a lot of backup garbage.

    With the OLine being back to healthy next year and I anticipate the Eagles targeting a guy like Luke Joeckel in the Top 5 which will turn that OLine back into something strong.

    I think whoever comes in to take of the Eagles will give Foles a full season with a healthy line and offensive weapons and then go from there.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:42 pm
  • Would GB fans be somewhat unhappy if this was the second qb out of the past 3 that ended up in Minnesota.....

    I actually really hope Flynn does NOT go to Minnesota. That would be a great fit for them and a team that I definately could see spending a 3rd round pick on Flynn. AP gives anyone time to throw and a 3rd rounder for Flynn is nothing they could still pick a rookie qb in the first round (try a good one this time) and be really tough next year
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:15 pm
  • Scottemojo wrote:
    The Radish wrote:I guess my real thoughts here are not about money but about the success of the current team.

    Lets say we trade Flynn and run down some also ran for a backup. First game of next season Wilson gets hurt and is out for 4-5 games and we have no one with any experience in our offense or even team for that matter.

    Then how does your $15 million argument stand up?

    :les:

    Well, if you used the 15 million to lock up a couple of our own, plus sign a decent backup QB for a lot less than you are paying the current guy, it stands up pretty good.

    Les, I trust these guys. If Flynn goes, do we have any reason to think they won't have somebody decent to back up Russell next year?


    I'll jump in here and say yea. I have reservations about them being able to turn around and find a back up right away. They took a couple of false steps and all of 2 and a half years to get to the level of play of a Russell Wilson.

    I certainly wouldn't consider any of the previous candiates as exceptable backups. Plus, prospect Josh Portis didn't develop and survive as a 3rd string project.

    The team has been thru trying times for want of a quarterback. If they are going to gamble, why not do so with a rotation specialist like a Jason Jones? Afterall, doesn't a backup quarterback trump a backup/specialist lineman?
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:17 pm
  • mikeak wrote:.........I actually really hope Flynn does NOT go to Minnesota. That would be a great fit for them and a team that I definately could see spending a 3rd round pick on Flynn. AP gives anyone time to throw and a 3rd rounder for Flynn is nothing they could still pick a rookie qb in the first round (try a good one this time) and be really tough next year

    I agree that he would be a very good fit for the Viqueens. Good call. The (rhetorical) question is, are they willing to admit Ponder was a mistake after only 2 seasons?



    xkj1985x wrote:I've seen a few people here suggest the Eagles trade for Flynn and being the resident Eagles fan here, Allow me to just say no thank you. Foles has performed decently considering how down the Eagles offensive side of the ball has been.........


    The wildcard in your thinking is whomever the new coach is and how much does he like Foles? Like you, I wouldn't bench Foles in favor of Flynn, particularly if I'm not a WCO guy. But, who's the new coach and what type of offense he runs will be the deciding factor in whether or not Foles is the starter, Flynn aside.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:32 pm
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote: much does he like Foles? Like you, I wouldn't bench Foles in favor of Flynn, particularly if I'm not a WCO guy. But, who's the new coach and what type of offense he runs will be the deciding factor in whether or not Foles is the starter, Flynn aside.


    Well its too early to tell but the name the Eagles appear to be in love with and there is a rumor that Howie Roseman (Eagles GM) has already talked to is Chip Kelly.

    Now Foles doesn't fit Chip Kelly's Run & Shoot style of offense so that would be interesting. Vick said today that he won't take a paycut to stay in Philly so thats also a bit of a wrench thrown into things.

    Kelly had made mention of Foles when he was in the Pac 12 that he loves Foles and that he was glad he was leaving the Pac 12 for the NFL Draft last year so who knows if there is anything to that IF the Eagles bring on Foles.

    But you are 100% correct, a lot of unknowns until you see who the Eagles bring in. I just don't expect them to be in the Flynn market.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:49 pm
  • If Minnesota moves on from Ponder, it seems unlikely they'd spend a mid-round pick for another QB with mediocre physical tools. They might as well stick with Ponder. For their GM to admit he made a major mistake drafting Ponder, he's going to need more than the skill set Flynn is offering.

    There really aren't as many teams out there as people think that are going to be interested in Flynn. Maybe none.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:05 pm
  • Until the coaching carousel stops spinning, there is little use trying to figure out where Flynn might go. New regimes, new quarterbacks.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:57 pm
  • It's been said more than once in this thread that QB situations change drastically from year to year. Agreed, and it could almost be said week by week. I don't profess to know every nuance about evaluating a future pro-QB. That said, I'm not exactly in awe of those that claim they do, LOL...There's probably more busts than not at the position. It is (apparently) true there wasn't alot of interest in Flynn last year aka "The year of the QB". Someone compiled a nice list earlier in the thread that showed the vets that should be looking for work (like in another profession). Those teams will consider Flynn. Now, let's look at this draft. I will get slaughtered for this but IMO, Cousins or Foles would be first rd talent, compared to those who will be drafted this year. I am of the opinion there is not a QB in this draft much better, if better at all, than either of those two.

    Kearly made a point about money and it was an excellent one. But unless we get 'more than he's worth', I'd hang on to Flynn for at least one more year.

    Another poster commented that "Flynn is an average QB at best". How is it that you know more about him than we do? Are you looking at his numbers at LSU? No team in the history of this game evaluates QBs better than GB. They held onto Flynn for several years, that's good enough for me. I believe a buyer is going to be there for him and we are going to get excellent value for him.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:16 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:If Minnesota moves on from Ponder, it seems unlikely they'd spend a mid-round pick for another QB with mediocre physical tools. They might as well stick with Ponder. For their GM to admit he made a major mistake drafting Ponder, he's going to need more than the skill set Flynn is offering.

    There really aren't as many teams out there as people think that are going to be interested in Flynn. Maybe none.



    How can you know what the skill set of Flynn is?

    We only know what we saw, what you saw, what they saw.
    The only thing they have seen is him throwing some gaudy numbers.

    Unrealistic? true. but that doesnt concern us, it only concerns a desperate GM.
    All this desperate GM see's is the PERCEIVED VALUE that can save his ass that is hanging on a sling.

    Several factors loom for this off season
    1) Crappy crappy qb class in the draft
    2) Many desperate teams looking for a qb
    3) Many desperate GM's looking for a qb
    4) Flynn's very attractive financial package
    5) No really decent starters from the list of backup qb's now available in the league.
    6) Hawks not in a desperate situation to unload him, meaning they can play a cool cool cumcumber in trade negotiations.

    Again, we don't trade Flynn.. but rather we are trading his PERCEIVED VALUE, his perceived potential and that can be argued and argued, but all we know is ..what 6 TD's in 1 game?

    So I think we are in a very good shape here with Flynn.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:24 pm
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:If Minnesota moves on from Ponder, it seems unlikely they'd spend a mid-round pick for another QB with mediocre physical tools. They might as well stick with Ponder. For their GM to admit he made a major mistake drafting Ponder, he's going to need more than the skill set Flynn is offering.

    There really aren't as many teams out there as people think that are going to be interested in Flynn. Maybe none.


    Ponders major issue isn't lack if physical tools. It is two-fold

    1) Pressure and importance in the situation makes Ponder worse not better
    2) poor processing of information as the game happens

    So opposite of RW. Those of us that are ACC fans all laughed when Ponder was picked 10th. I love to being up Rob Johnson. The reason is that on paper he is the prototype qb. The issue is you don't win games on paper. Ponder falls right into the category o looking good on paper....

    Flynn has actually looked good in meaningless games. How it translates is a bet but less so than a bet of how it translates for a Barkley or Glennon....
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:27 pm
  • mikeak wrote:Ponders major issue isn't lack if physical tools. It is two-fold

    1) Pressure and importance in the situation makes Ponder worse not better
    2) poor processing of information as the game happens

    His lack of physical tools is also a major issue; the guy simply doesn't have an NFL arm. Ponder has attempted 34 passes of longer than 20 yards this year and completed 4 of them.

    His overall numbers don't look completely horrible, but that's because early in the season the Vikings' passing playbook was pass short to Harvin and let him run, and Harvin is really really good. Of the 40 qualifying QBs, Ponder is last with 2.3 air yards per attempt and first with 60.3 YAC%. If he didn't have Percy Harvin (and AP to take take some pressure off him) Ponder's numbers would be Lindley-esque. It would be inexcusable for the Vikings to not address the QB position this offseason. However, I could definitely see their failure with one physically limited QB making them hesitant to take their chances with another one.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:20 am
  • Scottemojo wrote:
    The Radish wrote:I guess my real thoughts here are not about money but about the success of the current team.

    Lets say we trade Flynn and run down some also ran for a backup. First game of next season Wilson gets hurt and is out for 4-5 games and we have no one with any experience in our offense or even team for that matter.

    Then how does your $15 million argument stand up?

    :les:

    Well, if you used the 15 million to lock up a couple of our own, plus sign a decent backup QB for a lot less than you are paying the current guy, it stands up pretty good.

    Les, I trust these guys. If Flynn goes, do we have any reason to think they won't have somebody decent to back up Russell next year?


    Reason 1 - Charlie Whitehurst

    Reason 2 - Tarvaris Jackson

    Reason 3- JP Losman

    Reason 4 - Inconsistent QB evaluation, Russell Wislon has been lights out, but everyone here had a issue with how the whole QB position was being handled and weighed in on it one way or another. As of now we are pretty much in agreement with what we have and glad to have him.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:37 am
  • I would be perfectly happy with Tavares Jackson backing up Wilson.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:40 am
  • If we can get a decent pick for him i'd trade him in a heart beat. If we cant, i'm just as fine hanging on to him and bringing in another back up QB.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:56 am
  • Bobblehead wrote:How can you know what the skill set of Flynn is?

    We only know what we saw, what you saw, what they saw.


    Well, exactly. I've seen tape. From LSU, Green Bay and Seattle. Enough now to know what he is physically. Enough to appreciate why there wasn't much of a market last year.

    You suggested Flynn's financial package is attractive, but not really. It's still $7-8m. That's a lot for a career backup. And people need to get over this being a crappy draft for QB's. There's still three viable first round options. Three options that are still more attractive than a near 30-year-old backup. It's wishful thinking that any 'desperate' (or not) GM is going to turn to Matt Flynn. The best we can hope hope for is to off-load his contract for minimal return. I still maintain what is more likely - he will be cut. He'll go somewhere else for an 'opportunity'. And probably not win the job there either.

    mikeak wrote:
    Ponders major issue isn't lack if physical tools. It is two-fold

    1) Pressure and importance in the situation makes Ponder worse not better
    2) poor processing of information as the game happens

    So opposite of RW. Those of us that are ACC fans all laughed when Ponder was picked 10th. I love to being up Rob Johnson. The reason is that on paper he is the prototype qb. The issue is you don't win games on paper. Ponder falls right into the category o looking good on paper....

    Flynn has actually looked good in meaningless games. How it translates is a bet but less so than a bet of how it translates for a Barkley or Glennon....


    Ponder has serious physical issues. His arm strength is woeful, he can't even throw a strong WR screen. Barkley is far superior.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:45 am
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:It's wishful thinking that any 'desperate' (or not) GM is going to turn to Matt Flynn. The best we can hope hope for is to off-load his contract for minimal return. I still maintain what is more likely - he will be cut. He'll go somewhere else for an 'opportunity'. And probably not win the job there either.

    Not sure it's as bad as 'wishful thinking', but neither would it surprise me if it were. I do agree that the best Seattle can hope for is, as you said, to unload the contract for 'minimal return' as in like a 6th.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:18 am
  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:How can you know what the skill set of Flynn is?

    We only know what we saw, what you saw, what they saw.


    Well, exactly. I've seen tape. From LSU, Green Bay and Seattle. Enough now to know what he is physically. Enough to appreciate why there wasn't much of a market last year.

    You suggested Flynn's financial package is attractive, but not really. It's still $7-8m. That's a lot for a career backup. And people need to get over this being a crappy draft for QB's. There's still three viable first round options. Three options that are still more attractive than a near 30-year-old backup. It's wishful thinking that any 'desperate' (or not) GM is going to turn to Matt Flynn. The best we can hope hope for is to off-load his contract for minimal return. I still maintain what is more likely - he will be cut. He'll go somewhere else for an 'opportunity'. And probably not win the job there either.

    mikeak wrote:
    Ponders major issue isn't lack if physical tools. It is two-fold

    1) Pressure and importance in the situation makes Ponder worse not better
    2) poor processing of information as the game happens

    So opposite of RW. Those of us that are ACC fans all laughed when Ponder was picked 10th. I love to being up Rob Johnson. The reason is that on paper he is the prototype qb. The issue is you don't win games on paper. Ponder falls right into the category o looking good on paper....

    Flynn has actually looked good in meaningless games. How it translates is a bet but less so than a bet of how it translates for a Barkley or Glennon....


    Ponder has serious physical issues. His arm strength is woeful, he can't even throw a strong WR screen. Barkley is far superior.



    I think, from what I have read, in the end Flynn is due like 5 million, the rest being up front already taken care of by the Hawks.
    which is why I suggested his financial aspect is and would be reasonable for another team.


    I understand the limitations of what Flynn brings, however, I don't think you understand what a sale's job is. See, it doesn't matter what we think, its not about us, it's not about his skill set, its about another team so desperately seeking a starter that they will gamble, especially if it means saving their arses.

    Last year, yeah not a lot of interest, but really the circumstances were quite abit different, look at the draft, look at all the qb's that went, Flynn was in a market buyers market, this year..It is a seller market and Flynn is one of the few only viable commodities.

    Rant and Rave about Flynn's short coming all you want, but when the dust settles, He will be a viable commodity.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:30 am
  • I don't think he is going anywhere...We don't need the cash right now, we can see what happens in the draft... all before peddling away someone who at one time was brought in as a starter.
    Flynn is good. Imagine if fumble fingers didn't drop that one pass he aired out recently...... we would be like WOW Flynn is awesome....
    he don't suck, he is better than a lot of starters out there I think.... he will yield security, or profit.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:33 am
  • hawks4thewin wrote:I don't think he is going anywhere...We don't need the cash right now, we can see what happens in the draft... all before peddling away someone who at one time was brought in as a starter.
    Flynn is good. Imagine if fumble fingers didn't drop that one pass he aired out recently...... we would be like WOW Flynn is awesome....
    he don't suck, he is better than a lot of starters out there I think.... he will yield security, or profit.


    We got Chancellor coming up, Browner too and some others, this team needs money to extend these dudes.

    I'd rather keep the core intact instead of keeping the back up QB who can be easily replaced, no matter how you guys want to look at Flynn, he's still the back up.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:20 pm
  • People here WANT Flynn to be good. They have vested interest in that being so. At the start of the year, it was because it gave us hope at QB (before we drafted Wilson or realized how awesome he was gonna be). Now it's because the better they can project Flynn, the better of a draft pick we'll get.

    Imagine for a moment that Seattle not only has their QBOTF, but has somehow miraculously managed to obtain the entire third round of the draft. Imagine that for a moment. Do you really care what Flynn gets us anymore? Probably not.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:19 pm
  • Well, exactly. I've seen tape. From LSU, Green Bay and Seattle. Enough now to know what he is physically. Enough to appreciate why there wasn't much of a market last year.

    You suggested Flynn's financial package is attractive, but not really. It's still $7-8m. That's a lot for a career backup. And people need to get over this being a crappy draft for QB's. There's still three viable first round options. Three options that are still more attractive than a near 30-year-old backup. It's wishful thinking that any 'desperate' (or not) GM is going to turn to Matt Flynn. The best we can hope hope for is to off-load his contract for minimal return. I still maintain what is more likely - he will be cut. He'll go somewhere else for an 'opportunity'. And probably not win the job there either.


    No offense but were you not the person that stated nobody wins if they don't take a QB in the first 10 picks in todays pass happy NFL this last season?

    Before e get into a pissing contest, Flynn when able has shown he can get the job done, both at LSU and at Green Bay. Just becasue a guy can't run a 4.5 40 or have a Newton like arm doesn't mark him as a failure.

    Wilson has shown having a brain can take you much farther then physical attributes, Unitas, Tarkenton, Montana, Flutie, Brees, Jurgenson, Stabler, all had limitations in size, throwing motion, arm strength etc, but all were wiley and smart and competitors.

    I love seeing guys that don't fit the cookie cutter have to be this way or will bust prove everyone wrong because the measurable of intelligence, heart, and competitiveness can't be put on a chart and has shown it's face time and time again to be the difference maker at all levels of sports.

    Flynn has proven he is a quick thinker and works hard by reputation, when asked has stepped up when ever asked. I believe his injury derailed him this pre season and Wilson just took it and ran, not Flynns fault that we happen to draft an enigma.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:28 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:Wilson has shown having a brain can take you much farther then physical attributes, Unitas, Tarkenton, Montana, Flutie, Brees, Jurgenson, Stabler, all had limitations in size, throwing motion, arm strength etc, but all were wiley and smart and competitors.


    Wilson is succeeding because of a key physical attribute along with his brain. He is the complete package minus six inches of height.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:02 pm
  • I don't see the team cutting Matt Flynn outright because of his contract numbers in 2013. The cap saving in 2013 would be $3.25 million. The cost of any replacement would come out of that $3.25. The net savings would not be enough to warrant the risk of gambling on an unknown for 2013.

    I think they keep Flynn and look at prospects in the off season. Whoever they settle on will benefit from a year of orientation.

    The Seahawks, like most staffs, have a hit and miss history with quarterbacks.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:36 pm
  • Like many of you, I'm watching the projected #1 pick in the 13 draft, Geno Smith, look rather ordinary, if not lost, against football power house Syacuse. I said it earlier in this thread but continue to believe that this drafts best (Smith, Barkley, Wilson) are no better than last year's mid rd QB picks.

    This isn't Smith's first less than exceptional game and despite the age difference, Flynn's experience would probably have me taking him over this year's projected #1 (overall). I'm not saying Flynn is worth a 1st rd pick, but I don't feel any QB in this draft is worth a 1st rd pick. Last year, QBs were coming out of the woodwork. This past draft could eclipse the greatest QB draft ever (83). This year could be one of the worst. IF we choose to move Flynn, I pity the team that covets him.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:12 pm
  • I'd also add that it's likely Kirk Cousins would be a more valuable trade target in terms of other team's backups and quite possibly Alex Smith as well. We're not holding the only card to be played here, and I don't think we're holding the highest one either.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:39 pm
  • Throwdown wrote:
    hawks4thewin wrote:I don't think he is going anywhere...We don't need the cash right now, we can see what happens in the draft... all before peddling away someone who at one time was brought in as a starter.
    Flynn is good. Imagine if fumble fingers didn't drop that one pass he aired out recently...... we would be like WOW Flynn is awesome....
    he don't suck, he is better than a lot of starters out there I think.... he will yield security, or profit.


    We got Chancellor coming up, Browner too and some others, this team needs money to extend these dudes.

    I'd rather keep the core intact instead of keeping the back up QB who can be easily replaced, no matter how you guys want to look at Flynn, he's still the back up.



    He's a valuable commodity sitting as a backup, really no good for us there. package him, while teams are hot for QB's with picks.. get something hot.
    I agree with the other poster,
    I would'nt mind Tjack as a backup, he's fine, actually he would be perfect.
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:44 pm
  • pinksheets wrote:I'd also add that it's likely Kirk Cousins would be a more valuable trade target in terms of other team's backups and quite possibly Alex Smith as well. We're not holding the only card to be played here, and I don't think we're holding the highest one either.


    I absolutely agree. I said earlier Smith would be my first choice...but that based solely on the fact we've been able to see more of him. OTOH, he could be a zombie by now.
    I would look hard at Flynn immediately after Smith and I doubt the Skins would shop Cousins, It's not a matter of if Griffin goes down, but when will he go down (again)?

    It pains me to say it, but Tennesee is another team that might want to start looking for a franchise QB. :(
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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:13 pm
  • HawkWow wrote:Like many of you, I'm watching the projected #1 pick in the 13 draft, Geno Smith, look rather ordinary, if not lost, against football power house Syacuse. I said it earlier in this thread but continue to believe that this drafts best (Smith, Barkley, Wilson) are no better than last year's mid rd QB picks.

    This isn't Smith's first less than exceptional game and despite the age difference, Flynn's experience would probably have me taking him over this year's projected #1 (overall). I'm not saying Flynn is worth a 1st rd pick, but I don't feel any QB in this draft is worth a 1st rd pick. Last year, QBs were coming out of the woodwork. This past draft could eclipse the greatest QB draft ever (83). This year could be one of the worst. IF we choose to move Flynn, I pity the team that covets him.


    Mike Glennon from NC State is the most talented QB in the draft this year. He can make every single throw in the book. He has lacked a running game, oline protection, and too many drop balls over the past 2 years. Look for him to blow up at the senior bowl.

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Re: The future of Matt Flynn
Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:14 pm
  • Throwdown wrote:
    hawks4thewin wrote:I don't think he is going anywhere...We don't need the cash right now, we can see what happens in the draft... all before peddling away someone who at one time was brought in as a starter.
    Flynn is good. Imagine if fumble fingers didn't drop that one pass he aired out recently...... we would be like WOW Flynn is awesome....
    he don't suck, he is better than a lot of starters out there I think.... he will yield security, or profit.


    We got Chancellor coming up, Browner too and some others, this team needs money to extend these dudes.

    I'd rather keep the core intact instead of keeping the back up QB who can be easily replaced, no matter how you guys want to look at Flynn, he's still the back up.


    Ohh I agree, with you throwdown, but I thought we didn't have much in the way of contracts to deal with yet?
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