The future of Matt Flynn

CALIHAWK1":24mxwzpn said:

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I think Barkley is way over hyped. Let's get that out of the way. Now I have seen several prognosticators (mcshay, schrager) with him out of the first round. I will say I don't agree with that but him being ruled out of the bowl game with a bad throwing shoulder after a month off isn't going to help his cause. I also think that the 2011 class isn't helping either.


On topic, he has to restructure or kick rocks. The entire secondary has their contract come up within a year other two respectively. Okung is coming up. LTs and CBs are expensive. Way too much talent needing to be paid.

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As a Dawg fan, I will be watching Barkley's replacement, Wittek, vs ND very closely. If I am seeing what I (fear) think I am seeing, USC won't miss Matt Barkley...and that sux.

On Flynn: Too frequently I am seeing the phrase "career back-up" when referencing him. I mean, was he backing up Favre and Rodgers or Sanchez and Tebow? That should be considered before using such a phrase. Besides, "career back up" isn't really all that bad of a thing. He has been around the NFL for quite some time without getting beat to a pulp. I like that about him. But some think he's a bum because he couldn't beat out Rodgers? Really? He's our second "career back-up" from the QB factory that is GB. If he's anything like the first, he's a keeper in my book.

Someone earlier called Flynn a "poor man's Matt Ryan" and intended it as a compliment, but I don't think that comparison does Flynn any favors. Ryan is a limited QB who needed a good offense to boost him, definitely on the "system" side of the QB spectrum. What kind of talent did it take to lift the Falcons to the top of the NFC this year? Four first-rounders, four second-rounders, and two fourth-rounders between Roddy White, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, and the offensive line. I don't even want to know that cap hit, and that's without the contracts of Michael Turner or the defense.

No struggling team is going to want a high-maintenance QB who requires that kind of expenditure to build around. Some of the pieces will already have to be there, which shrinks the market as some of those teams are entirely bankrupt on offense.

In examining Flynn's market, I highly doubt that Matt Barkley, Geno Smith, OR Tyler Wilson get out of the Top 5. The Chiefs, Jaguars, Raiders, and possibly Buffalo are all picking there and at least three of them will be doing so with new head coaches and/or GM's.

Cleveland and Tennessee are 50/50 to look for a free-agent QB. So are Philly and the Jets; Nick Foles and Greg McElroy might have done enough to earn themselves a look considering that neither team will have a shot at the Top 3 QB's in the draft.

Then you have to remember that next year's market will also include Tim Tebow (he'll still sell tickets) and Alex Smith (who went down because of injury and lost momentum to the younger guy, not because he was sucking). Between all these factors, I still don't see Flynn's market being all that terribly wide.

That's not to say it will be non-existent. If our own community's reaction back in March is any indicator, Flynn might sell tickets. But we're talking about Matt Ryan arm strength and mobility here, the range of QB that requires more help before he can start giving help. It's hard to envision any of the floundering teams in the #5-10 range going "Yeah, this guy is a franchise savior" and coughing up a major draft pick for him. He's the next best option to the Top 3 QB's, maybe, and even then a lot of those teams still have other options. The only team I can see with enough talent to enable Flynn is maybe the Jets, and after years of Mark Sanchez, I don't think anyone there is going to get excited about the prospect of another mediocre-armed QB.

Late round pick at best, probably, is all Flynn can get us.

Why is someone trying to argue that people are suggesting this isn't about money?

Of course it's about money. It's about having more money to improve the starting roster of the team and have maximum potential to re-sign key starters in the future. That's how you keep growing. Alternatively we can eat one of the most expensive contracts on the roster for a guy who will likely be holding a clipboard again next year. And my point still stands - if you don't trust PC and JS to find a cheaper, capable backup QB to replace Flynn... it really is time to buy in.

MontanaHawk05":10rwecro said:

Late round pick at best, probably, is all Flynn can get us.

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Replace the name Flynn with Palmer and that's what Marvin Lewis once told Mike Brown.

HawkWow":6m5b0ebc said:

MontanaHawk05":6m5b0ebc said:

Late round pick at best, probably, is all Flynn can get us.

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Replace the name Flynn with Palmer and that's what Marvin Lewis once told Mike Brown.

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Just because one team made that mistake doesn't mean another will.

MontanaHawk05":9h95ogwx said:

The Radish":9h95ogwx said:

You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams.

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This is true, Les. And just because Flynn may never see a meaningful snap doesn't mean that the $7-8 mil is being wasted. Backup QB's are a big deal.

But even as it stands now, Seattle does not have anywhere near the cap room to sign the Terex-Titan-truckload of elite talent with ominous contract dates coming up. The team needs every penny it can free up. Flynn, given his total physical mismatch for the system, is a prime target.

The Radish":9h95ogwx said:

I think some of you just are never completely happy and have to think up outragous things for something to do.

:141847_bnono:

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Well, I can't argue with that.

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There is still an elephant in the quarterback room when the guy taking the snaps has a gamecheck 1/16th the size of the backup guy.

MontanaHawk05":jr3ee77g said:

HawkWow":jr3ee77g said:

MontanaHawk05":jr3ee77g said:

Late round pick at best, probably, is all Flynn can get us.

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Replace the name Flynn with Palmer and that's what Marvin Lewis once told Mike Brown.

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Just because one team made that mistake doesn't mean another will.

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True, but Palmer isn't the first or last time such a thing has happened. With Flynn under contract, any team that has interest in him will have to dive into the shark tank with JS. If we can't get what we want for him, I am certain he will remain a Hawk. There is no benefit to us trading him for a late rd pick, IMO.

The Radish":2gf39x7f said:

He can make $3 million a year and hopefully not get his uniform dirty. Not a Super Bowl but damned sure better than most backup QBs can expect.

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Uh, he's not making $3 million a year. He's making $15.5 million over the next two seasons. And the Seahawks could use the money right now.

HawkWow":2gf39x7f said:

There is no benefit to us trading him for a late rd pick, IMO.

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That is only true if you think Flynn is worth $7.25 million next year. I personally do not. Trade him, turn that pick into this year's equivalent of Kirk Cousins and pay him 1/15th as much. Then use that money in 2013 and 2014 to improve your roster and ensure that Baldwin, Chancellor, Browner, and Thurmond remain Seahawks.

People shouldn't forget money when evaluating players. Value added per dollar is the true measure of a players worth to a franchise- it's the very reason why Green Bay, Seattle, and Pittsburgh have so adamantly professed building through the draft instead of FA because the draft has by far the best value per dollar you can find. More value per dollar means more total talent which means more wins.

MontanaHawk05":1wpgnlgt said:

Someone earlier called Flynn a "poor man's Matt Ryan" and intended it as a compliment, but I don't think that comparison does Flynn any favors. Ryan is a limited QB who needed a good offense to boost him, definitely on the "system" side of the QB spectrum. What kind of talent did it take to lift the Falcons to the top of the NFC this year? Four first-rounders, four second-rounders, and two fourth-rounders between Roddy White, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, and the offensive line. I don't even want to know that cap hit, and that's without the contracts of Michael Turner or the defense.

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That was me. And I agree, Flynn will probably need a strong supporting cast to find success, just like Ryan does.

Scottemojo":d0tyoelz said:

There is still an elephant in the quarterback room when the guy taking the snaps has a gamecheck 1/16th the size of the backup guy.

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How is it an elephant in the room? RW is in a rookie contract and it doesn't matter to him if the other guy makes one dollar or $10million dollars...

Well after reading through the thread I'm rather in the court of moving Flynn.

I think a 4th is completely reasonable for Flynn. Looking at what other teams have offered for QB's and the number of options available I can't see at least one team not jumping for Flynn. It only takes one. I could see a team doing exactly what we did last year, not to mention I don't think this set of rookie QB's will be quite as NFL ready. The money is not an issue for a number of teams that have huge cap spaces they need to fill.

I think there are teams out there kicking themselves for not going for Flynn. One thing I never ever understood was the Browns not going for Flynn. Honestly Weeden is pretty damn similar, was a rookie, and cost a FIRST ROUND PICK. What the hell...

Even if it's more in the 5th-6th range it'd still make sense I think. We do need to clear money and honestly the way Pete has talked about rookie QB's and Schneider speaking of taking QB's every year if available means a rookie backup QB could be very likely. Bring in a vet and have a competition behind RW. Pete would love that.

Remember that Pete is extremely adamant about making the QB's job as easy as possible. I think that the way our team is built we can survive without an "elite level backup". We could probably survive with a cheap risk-averse veteran. I'm sure Pete and John talk about how dollars are allocated. Backup QB probably isn't a spot they have to invest a ton in. Russell Wilson isn't the least bit injury prone and I imagine the more he learns the less read option they run and add talent too the offense.

Most teams don't have elite backups, not that in itself makes it bad, but it's a luxury and rarely plays a huge factor in season. I'd rather have a higher ceiling with Russell in most of our games, than a bit better chance to win if Russell misses a few games. CHARLIE got us a win against the Rams to get to the playoffs and beat the Giants in NY. Not that he really "won" either, but we sure didn't lose the games right?

And I kinda want to see Flynn get a job somewhere. I know some of you don't care about that stuff, but I think it should factor a little. Makes the FO look better.

Some of the cold hearted renegotiations combined with moving Flynn could play a huge factor in upgrading next years squad and keeping the core together.

mikeak":327jdjeq said:

Scottemojo":327jdjeq said:

There is still an elephant in the quarterback room when the guy taking the snaps has a gamecheck 1/16th the size of the backup guy.

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How is it an elephant in the room? RW is in a rookie contract and it doesn't matter to him if the other guy makes one dollar or $10million dollars...

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I guess we disagree. Again.

Just a guess on my part, Flynn will not be in uniform for the Hawks when the '13 regular season begins.

I think whats really being said here is the Money spent on Flynn could be used else where to keep what we have in place.

I can't figure out why anyone would think that we would cut Flynn. I believe he's worth a 3rd round pick at minimum. At worst, we could get a 5th or 6th for him. We got what? A 6th for TJack? We gave up a 3rd+ for Whitehurst. Look around the league and see what teams are giving up for a QB.

I don't see how Flynn would have gone from having little interest in FA (yeah Manning blah blah blah, doesn't explain pretty much zero interest) to being worth a 3rd rounder to a team. Flynn hasn't done anything to raise his stock this year from coming off of the big numbers in GB.

TJack is going to yield us a 7th, the 6th was conditional. He's worth a low pick because he's shown to be a so-so stop gap option at the position but will never be a franchise guy. That could very well be how teams view Flynn. We blew it with Charlie because apparently John or Pete thought Charlie could be a potential franchise QB and the Chargers having no urgency to move him were in a strong position, so we overpaid. It was a mistake. Other GMs are going to see our cap situation and our upcoming expiring contracts and know that the Hawks would really like to move Flynn, and they're probably right. If a team believes he's a franchise guy we might be able to squeeze them, but barring that, we're going to be talking about a late round pick + the other big benefit which is freeing up some important cap space.

If they can pull off something more I'd be ecstatic, just don't see it as likely.

If Flynn was a free agent and we didn't have any other backup QB under contract, would anyone here want to sign him for 2 years and $15.5 million to be the backup instead of getting some other backup for a fraction of the cost? If not, why would you want to keep him around under that contract if we could trade him for any compensation and use that money in other areas?

I guess my real thoughts here are not about money but about the success of the current team.

Lets say we trade Flynn and run down some also ran for a backup. First game of next season Wilson gets hurt and is out for 4-5 games and we have no one with any experience in our offense or even team for that matter.

Then how does your $15 million argument stand up?

:les:

The Radish":mxb5ucsp said:

I guess my real thoughts here are not about money but about the success of the current team.

Lets say we trade Flynn and run down some also ran for a backup. First game of next season Wilson gets hurt and is out for 4-5 games and we have no one with any experience in our offense or even team for that matter.

Then how does your $15 million argument stand up?

:les:

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By that logic, we should keep Flynn for the rest of Wilson's career, purely because of his experience. At some point you have to go out and find someone cheaper.

Maybe one year while we draft and train a capable backup.

MontanaHawk05":2cwwebom said:

The Radish":2cwwebom said:

I guess my real thoughts here are not about money but about the success of the current team.

Lets say we trade Flynn and run down some also ran for a backup. First game of next season Wilson gets hurt and is out for 4-5 games and we have no one with any experience in our offense or even team for that matter.

Then how does your $15 million argument stand up?

:les:

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By that logic, we should keep Flynn for the rest of Wilson's career, purely because of his experience. At some point you have to go out and find someone cheaper.

Maybe one year while we draft and train a capable backup.

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Never said keep him forever. I have said in my personal opinion it would be stupid to get rid of him prior to next season. And if nothing can be found next year then bite bullit and keep him another.

It takes time to find a good quality backup that fits with your team. There are just so many David Greenes out there.

:roll:

The Radish":1vglfd8t said:

I guess my real thoughts here are not about money but about the success of the current team.

Lets say we trade Flynn and run down some also ran for a backup. First game of next season Wilson gets hurt and is out for 4-5 games and we have no one with any experience in our offense or even team for that matter.

Then how does your $15 million argument stand up?

:les:

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Well, if you used the 15 million to lock up a couple of our own, plus sign a decent backup QB for a lot less than you are paying the current guy, it stands up pretty good.

Les, I trust these guys. If Flynn goes, do we have any reason to think they won't have somebody decent to back up Russell next year?