The future of Matt Flynn

mikeak

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hawksfansinceday1":23ig2j2i said:
Matt Moore as backup please. Dude has played decently to well wherever he's been. He had a very nice year in Miami last year, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just say 'no' to a T-Jack return.

I agree if we could sign Matt Moore and trade Flynn I would be happy. Matt is a FA this year he made $2.75 million sitting on the bench.

If we can trade Flynn for a 3rd rounder or even a conditional 5th rounder that could be improved upon and we can sign Moore as FA for $3.5 million then I think we haven't taken much of a drop-off and would save $3.5 million / year and have the extra pick

You won't get Moore for less than $3million there are several teams that he would be an upgrade on as a starter and the question is would he accept backup role or rather go somewhere where he could win the job like KC, AZ etc
 

Erebus

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Missing_Clink":3azfo8fx said:
theENGLISHseahawk":3azfo8fx said:
MontanaHawk05":3azfo8fx said:
I don't see who's going to jump for Flynn. There were three or four QB-desperate teams last March and none of them gave more than a half-hearted offer. He'll probably just get cut.

Agreed. I think we'll cut him unless a team offers a late round pick. And the Seahawks will be free then to add a QB with comparable physical skills to Wilson so they don't have to dramatically switch their game plan if the starter gets injured.

And there's never great demand for a physically mediocre QB approaching 30, earning $7-8m for a season who has to date been a career backup. If you think a team is going to offer much for that, it's wishful thinking. The market was cold for a reason last year. The fact a few others teams are also in need 12 months on means little. Are Kansas City going to jump from Cassel/Quinn to Matt Flynn? Good luck selling that to the fans in KC.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Flynn's value is being overstated by many around here. He is a career backup who has never proven that he can be a franchise saver. For the teams who are desperate, I just do not see them betting it all on Matt Flynn. Personally, I would like to keep him unless it is clear that the Flynn money would be better used elsewhere.

Any team that gives up a mid round pick and pays him his current contract isn't betting it all on Flynn. That's a modest commitment to a stopgap QB with potential to be good for a few years and IMO its worth the gamble to a team desperate for a QB. If he doesn't work out for them, the trade and contract didn't set them back far and they can still draft another QB in 2014 or 2015. Even if he isn't the savior, he's a clear upgrade for about 5 teams right now.
 

NYCoug

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mikeak":2rtwwvhk said:
hawksfansinceday1":2rtwwvhk said:
Matt Moore as backup please. Dude has played decently to well wherever he's been. He had a very nice year in Miami last year, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just say 'no' to a T-Jack return.

I agree if we could sign Matt Moore and trade Flynn I would be happy. Matt is a FA this year he made $2.75 million sitting on the bench.

If we can trade Flynn for a 3rd rounder or even a conditional 5th rounder that could be improved upon and we can sign Moore as FA for $3.5 million then I think we haven't taken much of a drop-off and would save $3.5 million / year and have the extra pick

You won't get Moore for less than $3million there are several teams that he would be an upgrade on as a starter and the question is would he accept backup role or rather go somewhere where he could win the job like KC, AZ etc

If the Hawks make the Super Bowl this year, you might be able to get Moore on the cheap. Just tell him that the last 2 Matt's to play QB in Seattle have gone to the Super Bowl and there's no way he can say no!

As far as Flynn's trade value is concerned, remember that TJack actually netted us something in return. Barrett Rudd potentially as well. I'd say that Flynn has a little more value than both of these guys. I don't know how much more, but there's definitely value there in my opinion.
 

nwgamer

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I think the FO would likely ask Flynn to take a paycut first.. ala Winslow.
Then I wouldn't mind us trading him for some proven OL talent... I am certain there are some fine players ripe for the picking.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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mikeak":2fjquszw said:
hawksfansinceday1":2fjquszw said:
Matt Moore as backup please. Dude has played decently to well wherever he's been. He had a very nice year in Miami last year, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just say 'no' to a T-Jack return.

I agree if we could sign Matt Moore and trade Flynn I would be happy. Matt is a FA this year he made $2.75 million sitting on the bench.

If we can trade Flynn for a 3rd rounder or even a conditional 5th rounder that could be improved upon and we can sign Moore as FA for $3.5 million then I think we haven't taken much of a drop-off and would save $3.5 million / year and have the extra pick

You won't get Moore for less than $3million there are several teams that he would be an upgrade on as a starter and the question is would he accept backup role or rather go somewhere where he could win the job like KC, AZ etc
Very good point. He may be signed as a stopgap for one of the QB needy teams that didn't get one of the 3 first rounders kearly mentioned. Hard to say though because it seems to me he's got that "career backup" stigma some guys get. And yeah, money plays an obvious part too. I'm going to hope the Hawks get him, but that for sure might not happen for the reasons you mentioned.
 

chris98251

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Next year is the target year of our plan here, I doubt you sacrofice a sure back up in that year unless you hve a secured comproable solution. Just becasue we as fans want to crunch numbers and say boot the bum so we can spend it somewhere ele does not mean it will happen.

You all hve such short memorys, at the end of last season we had NOBODY here we thought could play QB. Be greatful we have a situation that is now solid instead of bitching about Flynns contract, the postion is still cheap overall since we can't re negotiate Wilsons contract due to the bargainaing agreement.
 

theENGLISHseahawk

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mikeak":152bunjr said:
theENGLISHseahawk":152bunjr said:
The most important thing for Seattle to do this off-season is to keep improving, keep building. They aren't going to be able to do that as easily if they're paying a backup $7-8m against the cap. They need to bounce some cap forward, consider the consequences of a LOT of young players starting to hit contract years and make one or two key acquisitions (such as a Randy Starks) to keep improving the starting roster.

All of these things are much more likely if Flynn is traded or cut.

Cut isn't an option really. I think the cap hit would be the full salary for this coming year so the 7-8 million plus the guaranteed for 2014 which is over 2 million so that is a $10 million cap hit (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Trade is an option

This is incorrect. As far as I'm aware, the signing bonus included into Flynn's contract worth $6m means that we paid most if not all of the guaranteed money in the first year of his contract. The deal was essentially structured to make it easy to get out of after one year if needs be... and if Flynn earns the starting job he gets paid nicely via salary for the remaining two years. So it won't cost $7-8m to cut him. I think we'd be on the hook for $2m, meaning a saving of $5-6m. So yeah, cutting him is an option and has been touted by people like John Clayton as a likely occurrence.
 

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Chiefs have 26 Million in Cap. So we trade Flynn for Dwayne Bowe (who has already said he's ready to move on, and would look forward to joining a contending team). We would probably have to give up a 2nd/3rd round pick along with the trade.

The chiefs already had a bad experience with a backup from a really good team, but it's worth a shot.

Could you imagine Rice and Bowe lined up with Baldwin in the slot. That would be sweet. And we could afford to lose a pick this year.
 

theENGLISHseahawk

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chris98251":3jdhsaj8 said:
Next year is the target year of our plan here, I doubt you sacrofice a sure back up in that year unless you hve a secured comproable solution. Just becasue we as fans want to crunch numbers and say boot the bum so we can spend it somewhere ele does not mean it will happen.

You all hve such short memorys, at the end of last season we had NOBODY here we thought could play QB. Be greatful we have a situation that is now solid instead of bitching about Flynns contract, the postion is still cheap overall since we can't re negotiate Wilsons contract due to the bargainaing agreement.

Nobody is bitching about Flynn's contract. It's not exactly the most outrageous suggestion that the team would likely find a better use for $5-6m of cap space than spending it on a guy who won't take the field apart from emergency. Even if they don't spend the money on free agents, there are rewards for being under the cap that will help this team re-sign key players in the future. It makes fiscal sense for teams to be under the cap these days. There's a reason why some of the national media (Peter King, John Clayton etc) are suddenly talking about Flynn not being part of this team next year. It's not fans 'number crunching'. It's how the NFL works. You don't need to spend $7-8m on a backup QB. The team will almost certainly want to spend that money on improving other areas of the roster.

And quite frankly - if anybody out there doesn't trust PC and JS to find a cheaper, capable backup... it's time to buy in. Look at their work so far. We don't need Matt Flynn or his contract anymore.

Shock2k":3jdhsaj8 said:
Chiefs have 26 Million in Cap. So we trade Flynn for Dwayne Bowe (who has already said he's ready to move on, and would look forward to joining a contending team). We would probably have to give up a 2nd/3rd round pick along with the trade.

The chiefs already had a bad experience with a backup from a really good team, but it's worth a shot.

Could you imagine Rice and Bowe lined up with Baldwin in the slot. That would be sweet. And we could afford to lose a pick this year.

Bowe is a free agent, so a trade can only happen if KC is willing to pay 120% of his current salary to keep him on the franchise tag or if they sign him to a new deal.
 

Sgt. Largent

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chris98251":2mw88hkn said:
Next year is the target year of our plan here, I doubt you sacrofice a sure back up in that year unless you hve a secured comproable solution. Just becasue we as fans want to crunch numbers and say boot the bum so we can spend it somewhere ele does not mean it will happen.

You all hve such short memorys, at the end of last season we had NOBODY here we thought could play QB. Be greatful we have a situation that is now solid instead of bitching about Flynns contract, the postion is still cheap overall since we can't re negotiate Wilsons contract due to the bargainaing agreement.

No one said any of this. We're discussing whether it makes sense to pay a backup QB 2-3 times the salary as other backups, and whether that cap space could be used more wisely on securing our own starters or free agents next year.

Obviously we wouldn't trade Flynn unless another capable backup is signed.
 

chris98251

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This whole thread is about the money being paid to Flynn........................

Also since when hs anything Clayton or King had to say about this team been accurate or matter except to support a selected arguement.
 

Sgt. Largent

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chris98251":3odlsx93 said:
This whole thread is about the money being paid to Flynn........................

Also since when hs anything Clayton or King had to say about this team been accurate or matter except to support a selected arguement.

No one said Flynn's a bum, and no one's "bitching" about Flynn's contract.

If you can't see that paying a backup QB 7-10 million a year impacts the cap and might prevent us from resigning players and potential free agents then maybe you should stick to the other threads.
 

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kearly":1wu9qzrb said:
HawkWow":1wu9qzrb said:
IMO, will be there late as well, But after Lienert, do they really want to put their necks out for another Trojan? Sounds like a PR nitemare to me.

A few months ago I was hopeful that Barkley could slide, but I think it's very obvious now that he won't. You have teams all over league tripping over themselves to copy Indy's Curtis Painter tactic from 2011. The Jets purposely not starting Tim Tebow in favor of future CFL player Greg McElroy. Arizona starting Lindley and Hoyer. The Bills GM openly admitting that he will trade up for a QB in the upcoming draft. The Raiders are thinking of turning to Terrelle Pryor (although he might actually be an upgrade over Matt Leinart).

And who are those teams so desperate to tank for? I doubt it's Tyler Wilson, who's this year's Ryan Tannehill (at best). I doubt it's for Geno Smith, who has some ability but has very much cooled off after a hot start. It has to be for Barkley. Let's not forget that many people considered Barkley 1B to Andrew Luck's 1A before this season, and Barkley's white hot finish in 2011 was the reason for USC's pre-season #1 ranking.

Barkley will go #1, or at the very worst, top 5. If KC picks #1, he will be a Chief. If Jacksonville picks #1, he'll either be a Jaguar or sold off to the highest bidder. Do NOT be shocked if we see a huge bidding war for Barkley's services. He will likely be the consensus #1 QB and teams are as hungry as ever for rookie QBs hoping to channel the same success as the 2012 group.

I have read many of your posts/threads and consider you a wealth of football knowledge. Your position on Barkley has inspired me to re-think mine. There are things about Barkley that just scream Leinert to me. Offenses have changed dramatically over the years. Most times to accomadate the fact there are not too many great QBs. Teams are thinking outside the box (like us) but you still don't see too many succesful QBs, at the next level, with avg arm strength.

I agree with your take on Barkley's status prior to last April. He was "the most pro-ready" of the bunch. Did he peak in his Jr year? He didn't exactly fail as a Sr, but look at the weapons at his disposal. Luck had some TEs and a full back. But Luck has a huge arm and that, IMO, seperates him from Barkley. The same, IMO, can be said for RW and Griffin. I sincerely hope he goes higher than I've projected him. That will push at least one player down the board for our scrutiny (Jenkins!). We'll just have to see. After the Hawks win the SB, it's an anxious wait for draft day. I am just so happy we no longer have to concern ourselves with the position. It's been a hell ride.
 

MontanaHawk05

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The Radish":1qs7xqtu said:
You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams.

This is true, Les. And just because Flynn may never see a meaningful snap doesn't mean that the $7-8 mil is being wasted. Backup QB's are a big deal.

But even as it stands now, Seattle does not have anywhere near the cap room to sign the Terex-Titan-truckload of elite talent with ominous contract dates coming up. The team needs every penny it can free up. Flynn, given his total physical mismatch for the system, is a prime target.


The Radish":1qs7xqtu said:
I think some of you just are never completely happy and have to think up outragous things for something to do.

:141847_bnono:

Well, I can't argue with that.
 

HawkWow

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The Radish":rpfd2nv0 said:
Again I completely disagree with those of you that think Flynn will be traded or released.

You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams. And why would we trade away a better than decent backup when we have no other in sight and maybe have a chance at a Super Bowl?

Use you heads,,,there is no upside for the Seahawks to trade/release Flynn in any of the scenerios you mention.

Again I'm going to wager he is going no where for at least 2 more seasons. Why? Cause the team can't negotiate a new contract for Wilson until he has played 3 years of his rookie contract. By then, Flynn might very well be to old for any trade value and his best money options would be stay here for the rest of his career.

He can make $3 million a year and hopefully not get his uniform dirty. Not a Super Bowl but damned sure better than most backup QBs can expect.

I think some of you just are never completely happy and have to think up outragous things for something to do.

:141847_bnono:

I am 1000% down with this. We have fans here saying that we will likely "release Flynn" if a deal cannot be reached (via trade). Whaaaaat?

RW does have some super-human characteristics, but that word human sorta jumps out at me. Yes, he knows how to slide and picks his spots very well. Anyone recall the career ending play of (the great) Curt Warner? We are one play away from being average again (without RW / Flynn). Others have stated they would take a 5th for him. I ask...a 5th of what? The only way I could feel good about Flynn going away is if it's for a 2nd (or higher). Seriously. Even then, could we replace him with a 2nd QB? Who would that be?
 

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HawkWow":80d7z40s said:
kearly":80d7z40s said:
HawkWow":80d7z40s said:
IMO, will be there late as well, But after Lienert, do they really want to put their necks out for another Trojan? Sounds like a PR nitemare to me.

A few months ago I was hopeful that Barkley could slide, but I think it's very obvious now that he won't. You have teams all over league tripping over themselves to copy Indy's Curtis Painter tactic from 2011. The Jets purposely not starting Tim Tebow in favor of future CFL player Greg McElroy. Arizona starting Lindley and Hoyer. The Bills GM openly admitting that he will trade up for a QB in the upcoming draft. The Raiders are thinking of turning to Terrelle Pryor (although he might actually be an upgrade over Matt Leinart).

And who are those teams so desperate to tank for? I doubt it's Tyler Wilson, who's this year's Ryan Tannehill (at best). I doubt it's for Geno Smith, who has some ability but has very much cooled off after a hot start. It has to be for Barkley. Let's not forget that many people considered Barkley 1B to Andrew Luck's 1A before this season, and Barkley's white hot finish in 2011 was the reason for USC's pre-season #1 ranking.

Barkley will go #1, or at the very worst, top 5. If KC picks #1, he will be a Chief. If Jacksonville picks #1, he'll either be a Jaguar or sold off to the highest bidder. Do NOT be shocked if we see a huge bidding war for Barkley's services. He will likely be the consensus #1 QB and teams are as hungry as ever for rookie QBs hoping to channel the same success as the 2012 group.

I have read many of your posts/threads and consider you a wealth of football knowledge. Your position on Barkley has inspired me to re-think mine. There are things about Barkley that just scream Leinert to me. Offenses have changed dramatically over the years. Most times to accomadate the fact there are not too many great QBs. Teams are thinking outside the box (like us) but you still don't see too many succesful QBs, at the next level, with avg arm strength.

I agree with your take on Barkley's status prior to last April. He was "the most pro-ready" of the bunch. Did he peak in his Jr year? He didn't exactly fail as a Sr, but look at the weapons at his disposal. Luck had some TEs and a full back. But Luck has a huge arm and that, IMO, seperates him from Barkley. The same, IMO, can be said for RW and Griffin. I sincerely hope he goes higher than I've projected him. That will push at least one player down the board for our scrutiny (Jenkins!). We'll just have to see. After the Hawks win the SB, it's an anxious wait for draft day. I am just so happy we no longer have to concern ourselves with the position. It's been a hell ride.

I think Barkley is way over hyped. Let's get that out of the way. Now I have seen several prognosticators (mcshay, schrager) with him out of the first round. I will say I don't agree with that but him being ruled out of the bowl game with a bad throwing shoulder after a month off isn't going to help his cause. I also think that the 2011 class isn't helping either.


On topic, he has to restructure or kick rocks. The entire secondary has their contract come up within a year other two respectively. Okung is coming up. LTs and CBs are expensive. Way too much talent needing to be paid.
 

Happypuppy

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"It's how the NFL works. You don't need to spend $7-8m on a backup QB. The team will almost certainly want to spend that money on improving other areas of the roster.

And quite frankly - if anybody out there doesn't trust PC and JS to find a cheaper, capable backup... it's time to buy in. Look at their work so far. We don't need Matt Flynn or his contract anymore."



+1. It is nothing to do with Flynn's potential ability as a starter. It is everything to do with English's point
 

mikeak

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theENGLISHseahawk":21ud5pbz said:
mikeak":21ud5pbz said:
theENGLISHseahawk":21ud5pbz said:
The most important thing for Seattle to do this off-season is to keep improving, keep building. They aren't going to be able to do that as easily if they're paying a backup $7-8m against the cap. They need to bounce some cap forward, consider the consequences of a LOT of young players starting to hit contract years and make one or two key acquisitions (such as a Randy Starks) to keep improving the starting roster.

All of these things are much more likely if Flynn is traded or cut.

Cut isn't an option really. I think the cap hit would be the full salary for this coming year so the 7-8 million plus the guaranteed for 2014 which is over 2 million so that is a $10 million cap hit (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Trade is an option

This is incorrect. As far as I'm aware, the signing bonus included into Flynn's contract worth $6m means that we paid most if not all of the guaranteed money in the first year of his contract. The deal was essentially structured to make it easy to get out of after one year if needs be... and if Flynn earns the starting job he gets paid nicely via salary for the remaining two years. So it won't cost $7-8m to cut him. I think we'd be on the hook for $2m, meaning a saving of $5-6m. So yeah, cutting him is an option and has been touted by people like John Clayton as a likely occurrence.

You are correct my number is wrong. Went and did some more research. The way I think it is puts it in the middle of what I have and what you have :)
The $6 million gets spread on 3 years - signing bonus. Then you would have to add the $2 million guaranteed so $4 million per year. Now if you cut him that is $4 million and then you have to pay someone else so the point still stands you are not cutting Flynn. Even trading him without getting anything is better....
 

chris98251

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I'm starting to change my stance on Matt Flynn. For the last several months, I've felt that having a good backup has a lot of value and shouldn't be discarded without much thought. Actually, I still feel that way, but I had a bit of a change of heart when I looked up Flynn's contract details at Spotrac today:

Matt Flynn's Cap hit-

2013: $7.25 million (2 mil guaranteed)
2014: $8.25 million (2 mil guaranteed)

For comparison's sake, Flynn's cap hit this season was only $4 million.

Flynn will be paid $7.25 million next season and $8.25 million the next. If it was $4 million, I'd agree. But at that steep a price, I suspect he'll be gone this offseason.

So this isn't about money? This was the OP.

And for all we know he could've been the reincarnation of Kevin FitzCassellKolb and been entirely mediocre, as is the case with most backups turned starters.

I don't feel sorry for Flynn. He's making bank and having to do jack for it. What a tough break.

And there's never great demand for a physically mediocre QB approaching 30, earning $7-8m for a season who has to date been a career backup. If you think a team is going to offer much for that, it's wishful thinking. The market was cold for a reason last year. The fact a few others teams are also in need 12 months on means little. Are Kansas City going to jump from Cassel/Quinn to Matt Flynn? Good luck selling that to the fans in KC.

I would like to see him in a Cardinal uniform next year. I just think he is average and it would continue to hold back that franchise imo.



So nobody is thinking Flynn is a bum?
 
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