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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:20 am 
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The writing is on the wall everybody, don't you see it?

Matt Flynn gets traded, said team also drafts a young, promising QB. Youngster wins the job and turns into a future HOF.

Meanwhile, the Seahawks make a big splash in FA and bring back T-Jack just for Zebulon!

In all seriousness. This is the route I would explore. He'll be cheap, we know what he can do and he did it before this offense was the monster it's turning into now. He's a solid option as a backup and hopefully Russ will be one of those guys that never needs his backup. Bring back Josh Portis for next season and try and develop him for trade value and then in 2013 draft Tylor Tettleton out of Ohio. Son of former catcher Mickey, one of my all-time favorite athletes with one of the greatest batting stances of all time. He's the closest thing I've seen to Russell Wilson in terms of toughness, poise, and leadership although not on RW's level. Not to mention they are the same stature. He'd be the guy that we could stash as a backup for years who, if pressed into action, could carry out a similar offense to Wilson.

Here's my new slogan for this offseason... Bring Back T-Jack for Zebulon Dak!

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:59 am 
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The Radish wrote:
Again I completely disagree with those of you that think Flynn will be traded or released.

You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams. And why would we trade away a better than decent backup when we have no other in sight and maybe have a chance at a Super Bowl?

Use you heads,,,there is no upside for the Seahawks to trade/release Flynn in any of the scenerios you mention.

Again I'm going to wager he is going no where for at least 2 more seasons. Why? Cause the team can't negotiate a new contract for Wilson until he has played 3 years of his rookie contract. By then, Flynn might very well be to old for any trade value and his best money options would be stay here for the rest of his career.

He can make $3 million a year and hopefully not get his uniform dirty. Not a Super Bowl but damned sure better than most backup QBs can expect.

I think some of you just are never completely happy and have to think up outragous things for something to do.

:141847_bnono:


A cheap starting qb doesn't mean you absolutely have to have a pricey backup. You can have a normal priced backup and spend the money you'd have spent on Flynn on other positions. Either in adding to or improving another starting position, or use it to help keep some of your young players like Kam Chancellor who will be asking for raises soon.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:05 am 
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This situation is very similar to the Ninners situation.

They promoted Kapriprick. Why? He's cheap. This will allow them to cut or trade Smith. Then they will use that money to try and reup some of their superstar roster.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:09 am 
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I don't think Flynn wants to be a career backup. If he did, why leave Green Bay? He was backing up one of the best (supposedly). Sure you can say the money, but ultimately I think he came to Seattle under the guise of being it's starting quarterback. You can't argue that this played out unexpectedly. Few thought that WIlson would come and and win the job. It put Flynn in a weird situation. I wouldn't be surprised if the FO did Flynn "a solid" and let him test the waters to see what kind of interest there is in his services next off season, sort of give a him a chance to go and start somewhere else.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:11 am 
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I would like to see him in a Cardinal uniform next year. I just think he is average and it would continue to hold back that franchise imo.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:12 am 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
MontanaHawk05 wrote:
I don't see who's going to jump for Flynn. There were three or four QB-desperate teams last March and none of them gave more than a half-hearted offer. He'll probably just get cut.


Agreed. I think we'll cut him unless a team offers a late round pick. And the Seahawks will be free then to add a QB with comparable physical skills to Wilson so they don't have to dramatically switch their game plan if the starter gets injured.

And there's never great demand for a physically mediocre QB approaching 30, earning $7-8m for a season who has to date been a career backup. If you think a team is going to offer much for that, it's wishful thinking. The market was cold for a reason last year. The fact a few others teams are also in need 12 months on means little. Are Kansas City going to jump from Cassel/Quinn to Matt Flynn? Good luck selling that to the fans in KC.


I think this hits the nail on the head. Flynn's value is being overstated by many around here. He is a career backup who has never proven that he can be a franchise saver. For the teams who are desperate, I just do not see them betting it all on Matt Flynn. Personally, I would like to keep him unless it is clear that the Flynn money would be better used elsewhere.

I would much rather pick up a top tier DT in free agency than a WR, unless that WR is Mike Wallace. The other guys all have some sort of issue that makes them unworthy of the big money in my eyes.

Otherwise, I'd rather spend a high pick on a WR and even a TE, and let those young players grow with Wilson starting right away.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:28 am 
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Since when do we care what people want?

Oh sorry you don't like playing CB Sherman you want to be a WR sure lets make you the number 1 WR..........

Flynn wants to retire then he is free to do so


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:34 am 
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mikeak wrote:
Since when do we care what people want?

Oh sorry you don't like playing CB Sherman you want to be a WR sure lets make you the number 1 WR..........

Flynn wants to retire then he is free to do so


When it free's up some cash to pay (and help keep) some guys who are actually playing, rather then a guy riding the pine, some care to a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:45 am 
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Mistashoesta wrote:
mikeak wrote:
Since when do we care what people want?

Oh sorry you don't like playing CB Sherman you want to be a WR sure lets make you the number 1 WR..........

Flynn wants to retire then he is free to do so


When it free's up some cash to pay (and help keep) some guys who are actually playing, rather then a guy riding the pine, some care to a lot.


This is different than posted above about Flynn not wanting to be a backup. The team shouldn't care what Flynn wants and doesn't want. They should care about the best decision for the team using the cap as one item to review. I didn't say don't care about the cap I said don't care about Flynns feelings..............


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:46 am 
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Mistashoesta wrote:
I don't think Flynn wants to be a career backup. If he did, why leave Green Bay? He was backing up one of the best (supposedly). Sure you can say the money, but ultimately I think he came to Seattle under the guise of being it's starting quarterback. You can't argue that this played out unexpectedly. Few thought that WIlson would come and and win the job. It put Flynn in a weird situation. I wouldn't be surprised if the FO did Flynn "a solid" and let him test the waters to see what kind of interest there is in his services next off season, sort of give a him a chance to go and start somewhere else.


Flynn signed a two year contract, it's not up to him......unless he wants to hold out. But I don't see him as that kind of player.

The Hawks hold all the cards on this one. My guess is Pete and John will trade Flynn if they can get a high draft pick.........or they'll keep him as a backup.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:48 am 
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kearly wrote:
HawkWow wrote:
IMO, will be there late as well, But after Lienert, do they really want to put their necks out for another Trojan? Sounds like a PR nitemare to me.


A few months ago I was hopeful that Barkley could slide, but I think it's very obvious now that he won't. You have teams all over league tripping over themselves to copy Indy's Curtis Painter tactic from 2011. The Jets purposely not starting Tim Tebow in favor of future CFL player Greg McElroy. Arizona starting Lindley and Hoyer. The Bills GM openly admitting that he will trade up for a QB in the upcoming draft. The Raiders are thinking of turning to Terrelle Pryor (although he might actually be an upgrade over Matt Leinart).

And who are those teams so desperate to tank for? I doubt it's Tyler Wilson, who's this year's Ryan Tannehill (at best). I doubt it's for Geno Smith, who has some ability but has very much cooled off after a hot start. It has to be for Barkley. Let's not forget that many people considered Barkley 1B to Andrew Luck's 1A before this season, and Barkley's white hot finish in 2011 was the reason for USC's pre-season #1 ranking.

Barkley will go #1, or at the very worst, top 5. If KC picks #1, he will be a Chief. If Jacksonville picks #1, he'll either be a Jaguar or sold off to the highest bidder. Do NOT be shocked if we see a huge bidding war for Barkley's services. He will likely be the consensus #1 QB and teams are as hungry as ever for rookie QBs hoping to channel the same success as the 2012 group.


This is an absolutely crazy thought, but hell, I'll post it anyway:

Jacksonville flips the top pick (if they get it) for a king's ransom in draft choices, and one of those goes to Seattle for Flynn.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:49 am 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
Flynn signed a two year contract, it's not up to him......unless he wants to hold out. But I don't see him as that kind of player.

The Hawks hold all the cards on this one. My guess is Pete and John will trade Flynn if they can get a high draft pick.........or they'll keep him as a backup.


3 year contract. Not 2.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:57 am 
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The Radish wrote:
Again I completely disagree with those of you that think Flynn will be traded or released.

You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams. And why would we trade away a better than decent backup when we have no other in sight and maybe have a chance at a Super Bowl?

Use you heads,,,there is no upside for the Seahawks to trade/release Flynn in any of the scenerios you mention.

Again I'm going to wager he is going no where for at least 2 more seasons. Why? Cause the team can't negotiate a new contract for Wilson until he has played 3 years of his rookie contract. By then, Flynn might very well be to old for any trade value and his best money options would be stay here for the rest of his career.

He can make $3 million a year and hopefully not get his uniform dirty. Not a Super Bowl but damned sure better than most backup QBs can expect.

I think some of you just are never completely happy and have to think up outragous things for something to do.

:141847_bnono:


Nobody is ignoring Wilson's contract. Kip's argument - and it's water tight - is that the money free'd up by removing Flynn's backup contract would free up significant funds to sign a starter instead. We're talking about a $7-8m cap hit here for a player who all being well never sees an important snap in the entire regular season. While there is cap room available in Seattle, they will want to save some to follow over for the following year to re-sign key starters in 2014 and they will probably like the freedom to at least consider signing a guy like Randy Starks who would take our defense to another level.

Or on the other hand, you can eat up $7-8m for a player who hopefully never sees the field and not do any of those things.

So, yeah. That's why people are talking about moving Flynn.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:03 am 
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mikeak wrote:
Mistashoesta wrote:
mikeak wrote:
Since when do we care what people want?

Oh sorry you don't like playing CB Sherman you want to be a WR sure lets make you the number 1 WR..........

Flynn wants to retire then he is free to do so


When it free's up some cash to pay (and help keep) some guys who are actually playing, rather then a guy riding the pine, some care to a lot.


This is different than posted above about Flynn not wanting to be a backup. The team shouldn't care what Flynn wants and doesn't want. They should care about the best decision for the team using the cap as one item to review. I didn't say don't care about the cap I said don't care about Flynns feelings..............


I see what you're saying. What I meant to say was more along the lines of Pete has a mouthpiece, he's a master at not stating the obvious. He may very well want to dump Matt to help out the cap hit, but I doubt he is going to flat come out and say that. Him saying that we wanted to give Matt a chance elsewhere would get the job done and sound good at the same time.

Just like when he kept speaking on Tj's role, even though he pretty much knew he would be gone.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:08 am 
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The Radish wrote:
Again I completely disagree with those of you that think Flynn will be traded or released.

You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams. And why would we trade away a better than decent backup when we have no other in sight and maybe have a chance at a Super Bowl?:


There's no denying Flynn's value to the team as one of the better backup QB's in the league. But the fact is we're paying him starting QB money, and that just doesn't make financial sense.

NFL salary caps work because positions are slotted for certain salaries, and the backup QB slot is not suppose to be eating up 7-10 million a year in salary. That just doesn't make good cap sense when there's no QB controversy.

I just don't see why Pete and John would be OK with Flynn's contract eating up that much cap space when they could use that money towards resigning starters, or towards free agents. Therefore that only leaves two options;

1. Trade for valuable draft picks
2. Restructure

I don't see Flynn being OK with restructuring, so trading him is the most likely scenario

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:13 am 
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The most important thing for Seattle to do this off-season is to keep improving, keep building. They aren't going to be able to do that as easily if they're paying a backup $7-8m against the cap. They need to bounce some cap forward, consider the consequences of a LOT of young players starting to hit contract years and make one or two key acquisitions (such as a Randy Starks) to keep improving the starting roster.

All of these things are much more likely if Flynn is traded or cut.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:15 am 
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The only way you trade Flynn is if you have a backup capable of winning games.

Remember the backup will want money too -- you got to commit at least $500k to him if a rookie and well over a million if FA so lets assume $1 million making the saving more like $6million

If RW misses a single game (remember a concussion almost equals out the next game so that actually two games - first the game he leaves then the next game) then the question is do you think it is worth $6 million to have Flynn come off the bench vs Jason Campbell.

Consider our record this year. Lets assume Wilson gets injured in the Bears game - do we win that game with a backup? So if we came into this weekend having to beat the Rams to make the playoffs would you be happy with that? And by the way the Bears would own the tiebreaker against us....

Now is that not worth $6 million? Playing a backup is a very real probability.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:16 am 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
The most important thing for Seattle to do this off-season is to keep improving, keep building. They aren't going to be able to do that as easily if they're paying a backup $7-8m against the cap. They need to bounce some cap forward, consider the consequences of a LOT of young players starting to hit contract years and make one or two key acquisitions (such as a Randy Starks) to keep improving the starting roster.

All of these things are much more likely if Flynn is traded or cut.


Stop talking about Randy Starks! You're getting me excited.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:17 am 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
The most important thing for Seattle to do this off-season is to keep improving, keep building. They aren't going to be able to do that as easily if they're paying a backup $7-8m against the cap. They need to bounce some cap forward, consider the consequences of a LOT of young players starting to hit contract years and make one or two key acquisitions (such as a Randy Starks) to keep improving the starting roster.

All of these things are much more likely if Flynn is traded or cut.


Cut isn't an option really. I think the cap hit would be the full salary for this coming year so the 7-8 million plus the guaranteed for 2014 which is over 2 million so that is a $10 million cap hit (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Trade is an option


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:20 am 
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mikeak wrote:
The only way you trade Flynn is if you have a backup capable of winning games.


Of course. But there are plenty of capable backup QB's in the league, and my guess is Pete and John would continue their tradition of drafting QB's in the later rounds to develop.

This is not a discussion on Flynn's talent, he is talented, especially as a backup. The discussion is whether it's wise to commit so much cap space to someone holding a clipboard? Especially if other teams are offering a high draft pick for Flynn. There are at least 10-12 teams out there dying for starting QB's, so I imagine Flynn's trade value will be pretty high this off season.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:30 am 
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Hey, Tarvaris looked pretty good in the new uni's. Just sayin! Solid, tough, durable, affordable, knows the system, and looks good taking a knee/holding a clipboard. Some here were even confident that the team could barely make the playoffs with Tarvaris at QB. Don't know how he'd do against our brutal schedule, but the guy won me over last season.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:32 am 
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Tech Worlds wrote:
This situation is very similar to the Ninners situation.

They promoted Kapriprick. Why? He's cheap. This will allow them to cut or trade Smith. Then they will use that money to try and reup some of their superstar roster.



It sounds as though you have been monitoring this situation very closely...

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:36 am 
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bestfightstory wrote:
Tech Worlds wrote:
This situation is very similar to the Ninners situation.

They promoted Kapriprick. Why? He's cheap. This will allow them to cut or trade Smith. Then they will use that money to try and reup some of their superstar roster.



It sounds as though you have been monitoring this situation very closely...

That's right!

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:02 am 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
Of course. But there are plenty of capable backup QB's in the league, and my guess is Pete and John would continue their tradition of drafting QB's in the later rounds to develop.
.


OK lets see this list is from earlier in the year so may be wrong
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/rank/_/ ... ersionId/1

My ranking - note Maybe is because either they can kind of play in my mind or I have no freaking clue if they can play :). Either way the list of capable is very short in my mind and remember some of these would be free agents and demand over $1.5 million so now the value goes down compared to what you have.

Capable
Nick Foles
Chad Henne
Shaun Hill
Matt Flynn
Matt Moore

Maybe
Chase Daniels
Graham Harrell
Matt Leinart
Mallet
Mccoy
Dan Orlovsky
Kyle Orton
Brock Osweiler
Drew Stanton
TJ Yates
Tyrod Taylor (only because of mobility)

Heck No

Derek Anderson
Jason Campbell
David Carr
Kellen Clemens
Bruce Gradkowski
Rex Grossman
Kevin Kolb / Skelton
Byron Leftwich
Brady Quinn
Luke McCown
Tim Tebow
Tyler Thigpen
Joe Webb
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:13 am 
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Great stuff, Kip. I think I'd prefer landing a solid backup before letting Flynn go, but that might be problematic in terms of the league calendar. ( Prospective suitors may have already attempted to fill their QB need.)

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:16 am 
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NYCoug wrote:
Hey, Tarvaris looked pretty good in the new uni's. Just sayin! Solid, tough, durable, affordable, knows the system, and looks good taking a knee/holding a clipboard. Some here were even confident that the team could barely make the playoffs with Tarvaris at QB. Don't know how he'd do against our brutal schedule, but the guy won me over last season.

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This, or some other free agent. After getting a franchise QB in the third round, you all are still wanting to draft a back-up QB in the first round? I'm all about getting a back-up QB, but not before the third round or unless its a free-agent.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:18 am 
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mikeak wrote:

My ranking - note Maybe is because either they can kind of play in my mind or I have no freaking clue if they can play :). Either way the list of capable is very short in my mind and remember some of these would be free agents and demand over $1.5 million so now the value goes down compared to what you have.


I'd put Kolb in the capable category. He's proven he's a horrible starter, but let's not forget he came in and beat us this year.........and was a fantastic backup in Philly.

Again, this is a conversation about committing way too much money to a backup. Is it possible we'd have to settle for a lesser backup if we trade Flynn? Of course. But if that means having 5-7 million more cap space to resign starters or go after free agents, then IMO that's worth the trade off.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:25 am 
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Draft, I think there are at least 2 surprises at QB in this draft. restructure would be ideal.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:00 pm 
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Matt Moore as backup please. Dude has played decently to well wherever he's been. He had a very nice year in Miami last year, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just say 'no' to a T-Jack return.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:05 pm 
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hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
Matt Moore as backup please. Dude has played decently to well wherever he's been. He had a very nice year in Miami last year, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just say 'no' to a T-Jack return.


I'd absolutely LOVE Matt Moore as the backup. T-Jax would be funny for all the wrong reasons and I wouldn't mind him back, honestly speaking. However, you'd have to go with Moore over Jackson if you had the choice. He gets the nod in every department save for the "warm and fuzzy feeling" one.

Should be fun to see how this all plays out but something tells me Matt Flynn will be gone in a move described by Pete and John as "the best move for all parties involved." Everyone will praise the Seahawks for their diplomacy, Flynn will cherish his ring, and we will root him on when he's playing in the AFC and remember him fondly as "the guy who called tails during the Bears OT win"

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:08 pm 
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hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
Matt Moore as backup please. Dude has played decently to well wherever he's been. He had a very nice year in Miami last year, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just say 'no' to a T-Jack return.


I agree if we could sign Matt Moore and trade Flynn I would be happy. Matt is a FA this year he made $2.75 million sitting on the bench.

If we can trade Flynn for a 3rd rounder or even a conditional 5th rounder that could be improved upon and we can sign Moore as FA for $3.5 million then I think we haven't taken much of a drop-off and would save $3.5 million / year and have the extra pick

You won't get Moore for less than $3million there are several teams that he would be an upgrade on as a starter and the question is would he accept backup role or rather go somewhere where he could win the job like KC, AZ etc


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:08 pm 
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Missing_Clink wrote:
theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
MontanaHawk05 wrote:
I don't see who's going to jump for Flynn. There were three or four QB-desperate teams last March and none of them gave more than a half-hearted offer. He'll probably just get cut.


Agreed. I think we'll cut him unless a team offers a late round pick. And the Seahawks will be free then to add a QB with comparable physical skills to Wilson so they don't have to dramatically switch their game plan if the starter gets injured.

And there's never great demand for a physically mediocre QB approaching 30, earning $7-8m for a season who has to date been a career backup. If you think a team is going to offer much for that, it's wishful thinking. The market was cold for a reason last year. The fact a few others teams are also in need 12 months on means little. Are Kansas City going to jump from Cassel/Quinn to Matt Flynn? Good luck selling that to the fans in KC.


I think this hits the nail on the head. Flynn's value is being overstated by many around here. He is a career backup who has never proven that he can be a franchise saver. For the teams who are desperate, I just do not see them betting it all on Matt Flynn. Personally, I would like to keep him unless it is clear that the Flynn money would be better used elsewhere.


Any team that gives up a mid round pick and pays him his current contract isn't betting it all on Flynn. That's a modest commitment to a stopgap QB with potential to be good for a few years and IMO its worth the gamble to a team desperate for a QB. If he doesn't work out for them, the trade and contract didn't set them back far and they can still draft another QB in 2014 or 2015. Even if he isn't the savior, he's a clear upgrade for about 5 teams right now.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:11 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
Matt Moore as backup please. Dude has played decently to well wherever he's been. He had a very nice year in Miami last year, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just say 'no' to a T-Jack return.


I agree if we could sign Matt Moore and trade Flynn I would be happy. Matt is a FA this year he made $2.75 million sitting on the bench.

If we can trade Flynn for a 3rd rounder or even a conditional 5th rounder that could be improved upon and we can sign Moore as FA for $3.5 million then I think we haven't taken much of a drop-off and would save $3.5 million / year and have the extra pick

You won't get Moore for less than $3million there are several teams that he would be an upgrade on as a starter and the question is would he accept backup role or rather go somewhere where he could win the job like KC, AZ etc


If the Hawks make the Super Bowl this year, you might be able to get Moore on the cheap. Just tell him that the last 2 Matt's to play QB in Seattle have gone to the Super Bowl and there's no way he can say no!

As far as Flynn's trade value is concerned, remember that TJack actually netted us something in return. Barrett Rudd potentially as well. I'd say that Flynn has a little more value than both of these guys. I don't know how much more, but there's definitely value there in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:13 pm 
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I think the FO would likely ask Flynn to take a paycut first.. ala Winslow.
Then I wouldn't mind us trading him for some proven OL talent... I am certain there are some fine players ripe for the picking.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:20 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
Matt Moore as backup please. Dude has played decently to well wherever he's been. He had a very nice year in Miami last year, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just say 'no' to a T-Jack return.


I agree if we could sign Matt Moore and trade Flynn I would be happy. Matt is a FA this year he made $2.75 million sitting on the bench.

If we can trade Flynn for a 3rd rounder or even a conditional 5th rounder that could be improved upon and we can sign Moore as FA for $3.5 million then I think we haven't taken much of a drop-off and would save $3.5 million / year and have the extra pick

You won't get Moore for less than $3million there are several teams that he would be an upgrade on as a starter and the question is would he accept backup role or rather go somewhere where he could win the job like KC, AZ etc

Very good point. He may be signed as a stopgap for one of the QB needy teams that didn't get one of the 3 first rounders kearly mentioned. Hard to say though because it seems to me he's got that "career backup" stigma some guys get. And yeah, money plays an obvious part too. I'm going to hope the Hawks get him, but that for sure might not happen for the reasons you mentioned.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Next year is the target year of our plan here, I doubt you sacrofice a sure back up in that year unless you hve a secured comproable solution. Just becasue we as fans want to crunch numbers and say boot the bum so we can spend it somewhere ele does not mean it will happen.

You all hve such short memorys, at the end of last season we had NOBODY here we thought could play QB. Be greatful we have a situation that is now solid instead of bitching about Flynns contract, the postion is still cheap overall since we can't re negotiate Wilsons contract due to the bargainaing agreement.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:20 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
The most important thing for Seattle to do this off-season is to keep improving, keep building. They aren't going to be able to do that as easily if they're paying a backup $7-8m against the cap. They need to bounce some cap forward, consider the consequences of a LOT of young players starting to hit contract years and make one or two key acquisitions (such as a Randy Starks) to keep improving the starting roster.

All of these things are much more likely if Flynn is traded or cut.


Cut isn't an option really. I think the cap hit would be the full salary for this coming year so the 7-8 million plus the guaranteed for 2014 which is over 2 million so that is a $10 million cap hit (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Trade is an option


This is incorrect. As far as I'm aware, the signing bonus included into Flynn's contract worth $6m means that we paid most if not all of the guaranteed money in the first year of his contract. The deal was essentially structured to make it easy to get out of after one year if needs be... and if Flynn earns the starting job he gets paid nicely via salary for the remaining two years. So it won't cost $7-8m to cut him. I think we'd be on the hook for $2m, meaning a saving of $5-6m. So yeah, cutting him is an option and has been touted by people like John Clayton as a likely occurrence.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
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Chiefs have 26 Million in Cap. So we trade Flynn for Dwayne Bowe (who has already said he's ready to move on, and would look forward to joining a contending team). We would probably have to give up a 2nd/3rd round pick along with the trade.

The chiefs already had a bad experience with a backup from a really good team, but it's worth a shot.

Could you imagine Rice and Bowe lined up with Baldwin in the slot. That would be sweet. And we could afford to lose a pick this year.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:29 pm 
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chris98251 wrote:
Next year is the target year of our plan here, I doubt you sacrofice a sure back up in that year unless you hve a secured comproable solution. Just becasue we as fans want to crunch numbers and say boot the bum so we can spend it somewhere ele does not mean it will happen.

You all hve such short memorys, at the end of last season we had NOBODY here we thought could play QB. Be greatful we have a situation that is now solid instead of bitching about Flynns contract, the postion is still cheap overall since we can't re negotiate Wilsons contract due to the bargainaing agreement.


Nobody is bitching about Flynn's contract. It's not exactly the most outrageous suggestion that the team would likely find a better use for $5-6m of cap space than spending it on a guy who won't take the field apart from emergency. Even if they don't spend the money on free agents, there are rewards for being under the cap that will help this team re-sign key players in the future. It makes fiscal sense for teams to be under the cap these days. There's a reason why some of the national media (Peter King, John Clayton etc) are suddenly talking about Flynn not being part of this team next year. It's not fans 'number crunching'. It's how the NFL works. You don't need to spend $7-8m on a backup QB. The team will almost certainly want to spend that money on improving other areas of the roster.

And quite frankly - if anybody out there doesn't trust PC and JS to find a cheaper, capable backup... it's time to buy in. Look at their work so far. We don't need Matt Flynn or his contract anymore.

Shock2k wrote:
Chiefs have 26 Million in Cap. So we trade Flynn for Dwayne Bowe (who has already said he's ready to move on, and would look forward to joining a contending team). We would probably have to give up a 2nd/3rd round pick along with the trade.

The chiefs already had a bad experience with a backup from a really good team, but it's worth a shot.

Could you imagine Rice and Bowe lined up with Baldwin in the slot. That would be sweet. And we could afford to lose a pick this year.


Bowe is a free agent, so a trade can only happen if KC is willing to pay 120% of his current salary to keep him on the franchise tag or if they sign him to a new deal.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:36 pm 
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chris98251 wrote:
Next year is the target year of our plan here, I doubt you sacrofice a sure back up in that year unless you hve a secured comproable solution. Just becasue we as fans want to crunch numbers and say boot the bum so we can spend it somewhere ele does not mean it will happen.

You all hve such short memorys, at the end of last season we had NOBODY here we thought could play QB. Be greatful we have a situation that is now solid instead of bitching about Flynns contract, the postion is still cheap overall since we can't re negotiate Wilsons contract due to the bargainaing agreement.


No one said any of this. We're discussing whether it makes sense to pay a backup QB 2-3 times the salary as other backups, and whether that cap space could be used more wisely on securing our own starters or free agents next year.

Obviously we wouldn't trade Flynn unless another capable backup is signed.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
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This whole thread is about the money being paid to Flynn........................

Also since when hs anything Clayton or King had to say about this team been accurate or matter except to support a selected arguement.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:50 pm 
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chris98251 wrote:
This whole thread is about the money being paid to Flynn........................

Also since when hs anything Clayton or King had to say about this team been accurate or matter except to support a selected arguement.


No one said Flynn's a bum, and no one's "bitching" about Flynn's contract.

If you can't see that paying a backup QB 7-10 million a year impacts the cap and might prevent us from resigning players and potential free agents then maybe you should stick to the other threads.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:55 pm 
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kearly wrote:
HawkWow wrote:
IMO, will be there late as well, But after Lienert, do they really want to put their necks out for another Trojan? Sounds like a PR nitemare to me.


A few months ago I was hopeful that Barkley could slide, but I think it's very obvious now that he won't. You have teams all over league tripping over themselves to copy Indy's Curtis Painter tactic from 2011. The Jets purposely not starting Tim Tebow in favor of future CFL player Greg McElroy. Arizona starting Lindley and Hoyer. The Bills GM openly admitting that he will trade up for a QB in the upcoming draft. The Raiders are thinking of turning to Terrelle Pryor (although he might actually be an upgrade over Matt Leinart).

And who are those teams so desperate to tank for? I doubt it's Tyler Wilson, who's this year's Ryan Tannehill (at best). I doubt it's for Geno Smith, who has some ability but has very much cooled off after a hot start. It has to be for Barkley. Let's not forget that many people considered Barkley 1B to Andrew Luck's 1A before this season, and Barkley's white hot finish in 2011 was the reason for USC's pre-season #1 ranking.

Barkley will go #1, or at the very worst, top 5. If KC picks #1, he will be a Chief. If Jacksonville picks #1, he'll either be a Jaguar or sold off to the highest bidder. Do NOT be shocked if we see a huge bidding war for Barkley's services. He will likely be the consensus #1 QB and teams are as hungry as ever for rookie QBs hoping to channel the same success as the 2012 group.


I have read many of your posts/threads and consider you a wealth of football knowledge. Your position on Barkley has inspired me to re-think mine. There are things about Barkley that just scream Leinert to me. Offenses have changed dramatically over the years. Most times to accomadate the fact there are not too many great QBs. Teams are thinking outside the box (like us) but you still don't see too many succesful QBs, at the next level, with avg arm strength.

I agree with your take on Barkley's status prior to last April. He was "the most pro-ready" of the bunch. Did he peak in his Jr year? He didn't exactly fail as a Sr, but look at the weapons at his disposal. Luck had some TEs and a full back. But Luck has a huge arm and that, IMO, seperates him from Barkley. The same, IMO, can be said for RW and Griffin. I sincerely hope he goes higher than I've projected him. That will push at least one player down the board for our scrutiny (Jenkins!). We'll just have to see. After the Hawks win the SB, it's an anxious wait for draft day. I am just so happy we no longer have to concern ourselves with the position. It's been a hell ride.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:58 pm 
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The Radish wrote:
You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams.


This is true, Les. And just because Flynn may never see a meaningful snap doesn't mean that the $7-8 mil is being wasted. Backup QB's are a big deal.

But even as it stands now, Seattle does not have anywhere near the cap room to sign the Terex-Titan-truckload of elite talent with ominous contract dates coming up. The team needs every penny it can free up. Flynn, given his total physical mismatch for the system, is a prime target.


The Radish wrote:
I think some of you just are never completely happy and have to think up outragous things for something to do.

:141847_bnono:


Well, I can't argue with that.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:05 pm 
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The Radish wrote:
Again I completely disagree with those of you that think Flynn will be traded or released.

You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams. And why would we trade away a better than decent backup when we have no other in sight and maybe have a chance at a Super Bowl?

Use you heads,,,there is no upside for the Seahawks to trade/release Flynn in any of the scenerios you mention.

Again I'm going to wager he is going no where for at least 2 more seasons. Why? Cause the team can't negotiate a new contract for Wilson until he has played 3 years of his rookie contract. By then, Flynn might very well be to old for any trade value and his best money options would be stay here for the rest of his career.

He can make $3 million a year and hopefully not get his uniform dirty. Not a Super Bowl but damned sure better than most backup QBs can expect.

I think some of you just are never completely happy and have to think up outragous things for something to do.

:141847_bnono:


I am 1000% down with this. We have fans here saying that we will likely "release Flynn" if a deal cannot be reached (via trade). Whaaaaat?

RW does have some super-human characteristics, but that word human sorta jumps out at me. Yes, he knows how to slide and picks his spots very well. Anyone recall the career ending play of (the great) Curt Warner? We are one play away from being average again (without RW / Flynn). Others have stated they would take a 5th for him. I ask...a 5th of what? The only way I could feel good about Flynn going away is if it's for a 2nd (or higher). Seriously. Even then, could we replace him with a 2nd QB? Who would that be?


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:09 pm 
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HawkWow wrote:
kearly wrote:
HawkWow wrote:
IMO, will be there late as well, But after Lienert, do they really want to put their necks out for another Trojan? Sounds like a PR nitemare to me.


A few months ago I was hopeful that Barkley could slide, but I think it's very obvious now that he won't. You have teams all over league tripping over themselves to copy Indy's Curtis Painter tactic from 2011. The Jets purposely not starting Tim Tebow in favor of future CFL player Greg McElroy. Arizona starting Lindley and Hoyer. The Bills GM openly admitting that he will trade up for a QB in the upcoming draft. The Raiders are thinking of turning to Terrelle Pryor (although he might actually be an upgrade over Matt Leinart).

And who are those teams so desperate to tank for? I doubt it's Tyler Wilson, who's this year's Ryan Tannehill (at best). I doubt it's for Geno Smith, who has some ability but has very much cooled off after a hot start. It has to be for Barkley. Let's not forget that many people considered Barkley 1B to Andrew Luck's 1A before this season, and Barkley's white hot finish in 2011 was the reason for USC's pre-season #1 ranking.

Barkley will go #1, or at the very worst, top 5. If KC picks #1, he will be a Chief. If Jacksonville picks #1, he'll either be a Jaguar or sold off to the highest bidder. Do NOT be shocked if we see a huge bidding war for Barkley's services. He will likely be the consensus #1 QB and teams are as hungry as ever for rookie QBs hoping to channel the same success as the 2012 group.


I have read many of your posts/threads and consider you a wealth of football knowledge. Your position on Barkley has inspired me to re-think mine. There are things about Barkley that just scream Leinert to me. Offenses have changed dramatically over the years. Most times to accomadate the fact there are not too many great QBs. Teams are thinking outside the box (like us) but you still don't see too many succesful QBs, at the next level, with avg arm strength.

I agree with your take on Barkley's status prior to last April. He was "the most pro-ready" of the bunch. Did he peak in his Jr year? He didn't exactly fail as a Sr, but look at the weapons at his disposal. Luck had some TEs and a full back. But Luck has a huge arm and that, IMO, seperates him from Barkley. The same, IMO, can be said for RW and Griffin. I sincerely hope he goes higher than I've projected him. That will push at least one player down the board for our scrutiny (Jenkins!). We'll just have to see. After the Hawks win the SB, it's an anxious wait for draft day. I am just so happy we no longer have to concern ourselves with the position. It's been a hell ride.


I think Barkley is way over hyped. Let's get that out of the way. Now I have seen several prognosticators (mcshay, schrager) with him out of the first round. I will say I don't agree with that but him being ruled out of the bowl game with a bad throwing shoulder after a month off isn't going to help his cause. I also think that the 2011 class isn't helping either.


On topic, he has to restructure or kick rocks. The entire secondary has their contract come up within a year other two respectively. Okung is coming up. LTs and CBs are expensive. Way too much talent needing to be paid.


Last edited by CALIHAWK1 on Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:12 pm 
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"It's how the NFL works. You don't need to spend $7-8m on a backup QB. The team will almost certainly want to spend that money on improving other areas of the roster.

And quite frankly - if anybody out there doesn't trust PC and JS to find a cheaper, capable backup... it's time to buy in. Look at their work so far. We don't need Matt Flynn or his contract anymore."



+1. It is nothing to do with Flynn's potential ability as a starter. It is everything to do with English's point


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:12 pm 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
mikeak wrote:
theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
The most important thing for Seattle to do this off-season is to keep improving, keep building. They aren't going to be able to do that as easily if they're paying a backup $7-8m against the cap. They need to bounce some cap forward, consider the consequences of a LOT of young players starting to hit contract years and make one or two key acquisitions (such as a Randy Starks) to keep improving the starting roster.

All of these things are much more likely if Flynn is traded or cut.


Cut isn't an option really. I think the cap hit would be the full salary for this coming year so the 7-8 million plus the guaranteed for 2014 which is over 2 million so that is a $10 million cap hit (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Trade is an option


This is incorrect. As far as I'm aware, the signing bonus included into Flynn's contract worth $6m means that we paid most if not all of the guaranteed money in the first year of his contract. The deal was essentially structured to make it easy to get out of after one year if needs be... and if Flynn earns the starting job he gets paid nicely via salary for the remaining two years. So it won't cost $7-8m to cut him. I think we'd be on the hook for $2m, meaning a saving of $5-6m. So yeah, cutting him is an option and has been touted by people like John Clayton as a likely occurrence.


You are correct my number is wrong. Went and did some more research. The way I think it is puts it in the middle of what I have and what you have :)
The $6 million gets spread on 3 years - signing bonus. Then you would have to add the $2 million guaranteed so $4 million per year. Now if you cut him that is $4 million and then you have to pay someone else so the point still stands you are not cutting Flynn. Even trading him without getting anything is better....


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Matt Flynn
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:16 pm 
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I'm starting to change my stance on Matt Flynn. For the last several months, I've felt that having a good backup has a lot of value and shouldn't be discarded without much thought. Actually, I still feel that way, but I had a bit of a change of heart when I looked up Flynn's contract details at Spotrac today:

Matt Flynn's Cap hit-

2013: $7.25 million (2 mil guaranteed)
2014: $8.25 million (2 mil guaranteed)

For comparison's sake, Flynn's cap hit this season was only $4 million.




Quote:
Flynn will be paid $7.25 million next season and $8.25 million the next. If it was $4 million, I'd agree. But at that steep a price, I suspect he'll be gone this offseason.


So this isn't about money? This was the OP.

Quote:
And for all we know he could've been the reincarnation of Kevin FitzCassellKolb and been entirely mediocre, as is the case with most backups turned starters.

I don't feel sorry for Flynn. He's making bank and having to do jack for it. What a tough break.


Quote:
And there's never great demand for a physically mediocre QB approaching 30, earning $7-8m for a season who has to date been a career backup. If you think a team is going to offer much for that, it's wishful thinking. The market was cold for a reason last year. The fact a few others teams are also in need 12 months on means little. Are Kansas City going to jump from Cassel/Quinn to Matt Flynn? Good luck selling that to the fans in KC.




Quote:
I would like to see him in a Cardinal uniform next year. I just think he is average and it would continue to hold back that franchise imo.




So nobody is thinking Flynn is a bum?

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