The Radish wrote:Again I completely disagree with those of you that think Flynn will be traded or released.

You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams. And why would we trade away a better than decent backup when we have no other in sight and maybe have a chance at a Super Bowl?

Use you heads,,,there is no upside for the Seahawks to trade/release Flynn in any of the scenerios you mention.

Again I'm going to wager he is going no where for at least 2 more seasons. Why? Cause the team can't negotiate a new contract for Wilson until he has played 3 years of his rookie contract. By then, Flynn might very well be to old for any trade value and his best money options would be stay here for the rest of his career.

He can make $3 million a year and hopefully not get his uniform dirty. Not a Super Bowl but damned sure better than most backup QBs can expect.

I think some of you just are never completely happy and have to think up outragous things for something to do.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:

MontanaHawk05 wrote:I don't see who's going to jump for Flynn. There were three or four QB-desperate teams last March and none of them gave more than a half-hearted offer. He'll probably just get cut.

Agreed. I think we'll cut him unless a team offers a late round pick. And the Seahawks will be free then to add a QB with comparable physical skills to Wilson so they don't have to dramatically switch their game plan if the starter gets injured.

And there's never great demand for a physically mediocre QB approaching 30, earning $7-8m for a season who has to date been a career backup. If you think a team is going to offer much for that, it's wishful thinking. The market was cold for a reason last year. The fact a few others teams are also in need 12 months on means little. Are Kansas City going to jump from Cassel/Quinn to Matt Flynn? Good luck selling that to the fans in KC.

mikeak wrote:Since when do we care what people want?

Oh sorry you don't like playing CB Sherman you want to be a WR sure lets make you the number 1 WR..........

Flynn wants to retire then he is free to do so

Mistashoesta wrote:

mikeak wrote:Since when do we care what people want?

Oh sorry you don't like playing CB Sherman you want to be a WR sure lets make you the number 1 WR..........

Flynn wants to retire then he is free to do so

When it free's up some cash to pay (and help keep) some guys who are actually playing, rather then a guy riding the pine, some care to a lot.

Mistashoesta wrote:I don't think Flynn wants to be a career backup. If he did, why leave Green Bay? He was backing up one of the best (supposedly). Sure you can say the money, but ultimately I think he came to Seattle under the guise of being it's starting quarterback. You can't argue that this played out unexpectedly. Few thought that WIlson would come and and win the job. It put Flynn in a weird situation. I wouldn't be surprised if the FO did Flynn "a solid" and let him test the waters to see what kind of interest there is in his services next off season, sort of give a him a chance to go and start somewhere else.

kearly wrote:

HawkWow wrote:IMO, will be there late as well, But after Lienert, do they really want to put their necks out for another Trojan? Sounds like a PR nitemare to me.

A few months ago I was hopeful that Barkley could slide, but I think it's very obvious now that he won't. You have teams all over league tripping over themselves to copy Indy's Curtis Painter tactic from 2011. The Jets purposely not starting Tim Tebow in favor of future CFL player Greg McElroy. Arizona starting Lindley and Hoyer. The Bills GM openly admitting that he will trade up for a QB in the upcoming draft. The Raiders are thinking of turning to Terrelle Pryor (although he might actually be an upgrade over Matt Leinart).

And who are those teams so desperate to tank for? I doubt it's Tyler Wilson, who's this year's Ryan Tannehill (at best). I doubt it's for Geno Smith, who has some ability but has very much cooled off after a hot start. It has to be for Barkley. Let's not forget that many people considered Barkley 1B to Andrew Luck's 1A before this season, and Barkley's white hot finish in 2011 was the reason for USC's pre-season #1 ranking.

Barkley will go #1, or at the very worst, top 5. If KC picks #1, he will be a Chief. If Jacksonville picks #1, he'll either be a Jaguar or sold off to the highest bidder. Do NOT be shocked if we see a huge bidding war for Barkley's services. He will likely be the consensus #1 QB and teams are as hungry as ever for rookie QBs hoping to channel the same success as the 2012 group.

Sgt. Largent wrote:Flynn signed a two year contract, it's not up to him......unless he wants to hold out. But I don't see him as that kind of player.

The Hawks hold all the cards on this one. My guess is Pete and John will trade Flynn if they can get a high draft pick.........or they'll keep him as a backup.

The Radish wrote:Again I completely disagree with those of you that think Flynn will be traded or released.

You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams. And why would we trade away a better than decent backup when we have no other in sight and maybe have a chance at a Super Bowl?

Use you heads,,,there is no upside for the Seahawks to trade/release Flynn in any of the scenerios you mention.

Again I'm going to wager he is going no where for at least 2 more seasons. Why? Cause the team can't negotiate a new contract for Wilson until he has played 3 years of his rookie contract. By then, Flynn might very well be to old for any trade value and his best money options would be stay here for the rest of his career.

He can make $3 million a year and hopefully not get his uniform dirty. Not a Super Bowl but damned sure better than most backup QBs can expect.

I think some of you just are never completely happy and have to think up outragous things for something to do.

mikeak wrote:

Mistashoesta wrote:

mikeak wrote:Since when do we care what people want?

Oh sorry you don't like playing CB Sherman you want to be a WR sure lets make you the number 1 WR..........

Flynn wants to retire then he is free to do so

When it free's up some cash to pay (and help keep) some guys who are actually playing, rather then a guy riding the pine, some care to a lot.

This is different than posted above about Flynn not wanting to be a backup. The team shouldn't care what Flynn wants and doesn't want. They should care about the best decision for the team using the cap as one item to review. I didn't say don't care about the cap I said don't care about Flynns feelings..............

The Radish wrote:Again I completely disagree with those of you that think Flynn will be traded or released.

You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams. And why would we trade away a better than decent backup when we have no other in sight and maybe have a chance at a Super Bowl?:

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:The most important thing for Seattle to do this off-season is to keep improving, keep building. They aren't going to be able to do that as easily if they're paying a backup $7-8m against the cap. They need to bounce some cap forward, consider the consequences of a LOT of young players starting to hit contract years and make one or two key acquisitions (such as a Randy Starks) to keep improving the starting roster.

All of these things are much more likely if Flynn is traded or cut.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:The most important thing for Seattle to do this off-season is to keep improving, keep building. They aren't going to be able to do that as easily if they're paying a backup $7-8m against the cap. They need to bounce some cap forward, consider the consequences of a LOT of young players starting to hit contract years and make one or two key acquisitions (such as a Randy Starks) to keep improving the starting roster.

All of these things are much more likely if Flynn is traded or cut.

mikeak wrote:The only way you trade Flynn is if you have a backup capable of winning games.

Tech Worlds wrote:This situation is very similar to the Ninners situation.

They promoted Kapriprick. Why? He's cheap. This will allow them to cut or trade Smith. Then they will use that money to try and reup some of their superstar roster.

bestfightstory wrote:

Tech Worlds wrote:This situation is very similar to the Ninners situation.

They promoted Kapriprick. Why? He's cheap. This will allow them to cut or trade Smith. Then they will use that money to try and reup some of their superstar roster.

It sounds as though you have been monitoring this situation very closely...

Sgt. Largent wrote:Of course. But there are plenty of capable backup QB's in the league, and my guess is Pete and John would continue their tradition of drafting QB's in the later rounds to develop.
.

NYCoug wrote:Hey, Tarvaris looked pretty good in the new uni's. Just sayin! Solid, tough, durable, affordable, knows the system, and looks good taking a knee/holding a clipboard. Some here were even confident that the team could barely make the playoffs with Tarvaris at QB. Don't know how he'd do against our brutal schedule, but the guy won me over last season.

mikeak wrote:
My ranking - note Maybe is because either they can kind of play in my mind or I have no freaking clue if they can play . Either way the list of capable is very short in my mind and remember some of these would be free agents and demand over $1.5 million so now the value goes down compared to what you have.

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Matt Moore as backup please. Dude has played decently to well wherever he's been. He had a very nice year in Miami last year, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just say 'no' to a T-Jack return.

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Matt Moore as backup please. Dude has played decently to well wherever he's been. He had a very nice year in Miami last year, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just say 'no' to a T-Jack return.

Missing_Clink wrote:

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:

MontanaHawk05 wrote:I don't see who's going to jump for Flynn. There were three or four QB-desperate teams last March and none of them gave more than a half-hearted offer. He'll probably just get cut.

Agreed. I think we'll cut him unless a team offers a late round pick. And the Seahawks will be free then to add a QB with comparable physical skills to Wilson so they don't have to dramatically switch their game plan if the starter gets injured.

And there's never great demand for a physically mediocre QB approaching 30, earning $7-8m for a season who has to date been a career backup. If you think a team is going to offer much for that, it's wishful thinking. The market was cold for a reason last year. The fact a few others teams are also in need 12 months on means little. Are Kansas City going to jump from Cassel/Quinn to Matt Flynn? Good luck selling that to the fans in KC.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Flynn's value is being overstated by many around here. He is a career backup who has never proven that he can be a franchise saver. For the teams who are desperate, I just do not see them betting it all on Matt Flynn. Personally, I would like to keep him unless it is clear that the Flynn money would be better used elsewhere.

mikeak wrote:

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Matt Moore as backup please. Dude has played decently to well wherever he's been. He had a very nice year in Miami last year, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just say 'no' to a T-Jack return.

I agree if we could sign Matt Moore and trade Flynn I would be happy. Matt is a FA this year he made $2.75 million sitting on the bench.

If we can trade Flynn for a 3rd rounder or even a conditional 5th rounder that could be improved upon and we can sign Moore as FA for $3.5 million then I think we haven't taken much of a drop-off and would save $3.5 million / year and have the extra pick

You won't get Moore for less than $3million there are several teams that he would be an upgrade on as a starter and the question is would he accept backup role or rather go somewhere where he could win the job like KC, AZ etc

mikeak wrote:

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Matt Moore as backup please. Dude has played decently to well wherever he's been. He had a very nice year in Miami last year, 16 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just say 'no' to a T-Jack return.

I agree if we could sign Matt Moore and trade Flynn I would be happy. Matt is a FA this year he made $2.75 million sitting on the bench.

If we can trade Flynn for a 3rd rounder or even a conditional 5th rounder that could be improved upon and we can sign Moore as FA for $3.5 million then I think we haven't taken much of a drop-off and would save $3.5 million / year and have the extra pick

You won't get Moore for less than $3million there are several teams that he would be an upgrade on as a starter and the question is would he accept backup role or rather go somewhere where he could win the job like KC, AZ etc

mikeak wrote:

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:The most important thing for Seattle to do this off-season is to keep improving, keep building. They aren't going to be able to do that as easily if they're paying a backup $7-8m against the cap. They need to bounce some cap forward, consider the consequences of a LOT of young players starting to hit contract years and make one or two key acquisitions (such as a Randy Starks) to keep improving the starting roster.

All of these things are much more likely if Flynn is traded or cut.

Cut isn't an option really. I think the cap hit would be the full salary for this coming year so the 7-8 million plus the guaranteed for 2014 which is over 2 million so that is a $10 million cap hit (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Trade is an option

chris98251 wrote:Next year is the target year of our plan here, I doubt you sacrofice a sure back up in that year unless you hve a secured comproable solution. Just becasue we as fans want to crunch numbers and say boot the bum so we can spend it somewhere ele does not mean it will happen.

You all hve such short memorys, at the end of last season we had NOBODY here we thought could play QB. Be greatful we have a situation that is now solid instead of bitching about Flynns contract, the postion is still cheap overall since we can't re negotiate Wilsons contract due to the bargainaing agreement.

Shock2k wrote:Chiefs have 26 Million in Cap. So we trade Flynn for Dwayne Bowe (who has already said he's ready to move on, and would look forward to joining a contending team). We would probably have to give up a 2nd/3rd round pick along with the trade.

The chiefs already had a bad experience with a backup from a really good team, but it's worth a shot.

Could you imagine Rice and Bowe lined up with Baldwin in the slot. That would be sweet. And we could afford to lose a pick this year.

chris98251 wrote:Next year is the target year of our plan here, I doubt you sacrofice a sure back up in that year unless you hve a secured comproable solution. Just becasue we as fans want to crunch numbers and say boot the bum so we can spend it somewhere ele does not mean it will happen.

You all hve such short memorys, at the end of last season we had NOBODY here we thought could play QB. Be greatful we have a situation that is now solid instead of bitching about Flynns contract, the postion is still cheap overall since we can't re negotiate Wilsons contract due to the bargainaing agreement.

chris98251 wrote:This whole thread is about the money being paid to Flynn........................

Also since when hs anything Clayton or King had to say about this team been accurate or matter except to support a selected arguement.

kearly wrote:

HawkWow wrote:IMO, will be there late as well, But after Lienert, do they really want to put their necks out for another Trojan? Sounds like a PR nitemare to me.

A few months ago I was hopeful that Barkley could slide, but I think it's very obvious now that he won't. You have teams all over league tripping over themselves to copy Indy's Curtis Painter tactic from 2011. The Jets purposely not starting Tim Tebow in favor of future CFL player Greg McElroy. Arizona starting Lindley and Hoyer. The Bills GM openly admitting that he will trade up for a QB in the upcoming draft. The Raiders are thinking of turning to Terrelle Pryor (although he might actually be an upgrade over Matt Leinart).

And who are those teams so desperate to tank for? I doubt it's Tyler Wilson, who's this year's Ryan Tannehill (at best). I doubt it's for Geno Smith, who has some ability but has very much cooled off after a hot start. It has to be for Barkley. Let's not forget that many people considered Barkley 1B to Andrew Luck's 1A before this season, and Barkley's white hot finish in 2011 was the reason for USC's pre-season #1 ranking.

Barkley will go #1, or at the very worst, top 5. If KC picks #1, he will be a Chief. If Jacksonville picks #1, he'll either be a Jaguar or sold off to the highest bidder. Do NOT be shocked if we see a huge bidding war for Barkley's services. He will likely be the consensus #1 QB and teams are as hungry as ever for rookie QBs hoping to channel the same success as the 2012 group.

The Radish wrote:You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams.

The Radish wrote:I think some of you just are never completely happy and have to think up outragous things for something to do.

The Radish wrote:Again I completely disagree with those of you that think Flynn will be traded or released.

You all ignore the FACTS of Wilson being in his rookie contract for at least 3 years we are probably paying less for our 2 QBs than most teams. And why would we trade away a better than decent backup when we have no other in sight and maybe have a chance at a Super Bowl?

Use you heads,,,there is no upside for the Seahawks to trade/release Flynn in any of the scenerios you mention.

Again I'm going to wager he is going no where for at least 2 more seasons. Why? Cause the team can't negotiate a new contract for Wilson until he has played 3 years of his rookie contract. By then, Flynn might very well be to old for any trade value and his best money options would be stay here for the rest of his career.

He can make $3 million a year and hopefully not get his uniform dirty. Not a Super Bowl but damned sure better than most backup QBs can expect.

I think some of you just are never completely happy and have to think up outragous things for something to do.

HawkWow wrote:

kearly wrote:

HawkWow wrote:IMO, will be there late as well, But after Lienert, do they really want to put their necks out for another Trojan? Sounds like a PR nitemare to me.

A few months ago I was hopeful that Barkley could slide, but I think it's very obvious now that he won't. You have teams all over league tripping over themselves to copy Indy's Curtis Painter tactic from 2011. The Jets purposely not starting Tim Tebow in favor of future CFL player Greg McElroy. Arizona starting Lindley and Hoyer. The Bills GM openly admitting that he will trade up for a QB in the upcoming draft. The Raiders are thinking of turning to Terrelle Pryor (although he might actually be an upgrade over Matt Leinart).

And who are those teams so desperate to tank for? I doubt it's Tyler Wilson, who's this year's Ryan Tannehill (at best). I doubt it's for Geno Smith, who has some ability but has very much cooled off after a hot start. It has to be for Barkley. Let's not forget that many people considered Barkley 1B to Andrew Luck's 1A before this season, and Barkley's white hot finish in 2011 was the reason for USC's pre-season #1 ranking.

Barkley will go #1, or at the very worst, top 5. If KC picks #1, he will be a Chief. If Jacksonville picks #1, he'll either be a Jaguar or sold off to the highest bidder. Do NOT be shocked if we see a huge bidding war for Barkley's services. He will likely be the consensus #1 QB and teams are as hungry as ever for rookie QBs hoping to channel the same success as the 2012 group.

I have read many of your posts/threads and consider you a wealth of football knowledge. Your position on Barkley has inspired me to re-think mine. There are things about Barkley that just scream Leinert to me. Offenses have changed dramatically over the years. Most times to accomadate the fact there are not too many great QBs. Teams are thinking outside the box (like us) but you still don't see too many succesful QBs, at the next level, with avg arm strength.

I agree with your take on Barkley's status prior to last April. He was "the most pro-ready" of the bunch. Did he peak in his Jr year? He didn't exactly fail as a Sr, but look at the weapons at his disposal. Luck had some TEs and a full back. But Luck has a huge arm and that, IMO, seperates him from Barkley. The same, IMO, can be said for RW and Griffin. I sincerely hope he goes higher than I've projected him. That will push at least one player down the board for our scrutiny (Jenkins!). We'll just have to see. After the Hawks win the SB, it's an anxious wait for draft day. I am just so happy we no longer have to concern ourselves with the position. It's been a hell ride.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:

mikeak wrote:

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:The most important thing for Seattle to do this off-season is to keep improving, keep building. They aren't going to be able to do that as easily if they're paying a backup $7-8m against the cap. They need to bounce some cap forward, consider the consequences of a LOT of young players starting to hit contract years and make one or two key acquisitions (such as a Randy Starks) to keep improving the starting roster.

All of these things are much more likely if Flynn is traded or cut.

Cut isn't an option really. I think the cap hit would be the full salary for this coming year so the 7-8 million plus the guaranteed for 2014 which is over 2 million so that is a $10 million cap hit (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Trade is an option

This is incorrect. As far as I'm aware, the signing bonus included into Flynn's contract worth $6m means that we paid most if not all of the guaranteed money in the first year of his contract. The deal was essentially structured to make it easy to get out of after one year if needs be... and if Flynn earns the starting job he gets paid nicely via salary for the remaining two years. So it won't cost $7-8m to cut him. I think we'd be on the hook for $2m, meaning a saving of $5-6m. So yeah, cutting him is an option and has been touted by people like John Clayton as a likely occurrence.

I'm starting to change my stance on Matt Flynn. For the last several months, I've felt that having a good backup has a lot of value and shouldn't be discarded without much thought. Actually, I still feel that way, but I had a bit of a change of heart when I looked up Flynn's contract details at Spotrac today:

Matt Flynn's Cap hit-

2013: $7.25 million (2 mil guaranteed)
2014: $8.25 million (2 mil guaranteed)

For comparison's sake, Flynn's cap hit this season was only $4 million.

Flynn will be paid $7.25 million next season and $8.25 million the next. If it was $4 million, I'd agree. But at that steep a price, I suspect he'll be gone this offseason.

And for all we know he could've been the reincarnation of Kevin FitzCassellKolb and been entirely mediocre, as is the case with most backups turned starters.

I don't feel sorry for Flynn. He's making bank and having to do jack for it. What a tough break.

And there's never great demand for a physically mediocre QB approaching 30, earning $7-8m for a season who has to date been a career backup. If you think a team is going to offer much for that, it's wishful thinking. The market was cold for a reason last year. The fact a few others teams are also in need 12 months on means little. Are Kansas City going to jump from Cassel/Quinn to Matt Flynn? Good luck selling that to the fans in KC.

I would like to see him in a Cardinal uniform next year. I just think he is average and it would continue to hold back that franchise imo.