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 Post subject: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:04 pm 
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On their level of talent and what they've shown on the field, with injuries being a factor.

Just to refresh your memory, here's our draft classes, in order of round drafted in:

2010: Russell Okung, Earl Thomas, Golden Tate, Walter Thurmond, EJ Wilson, Kam Chancellor, Anthony McCoy, Dexter Davis, the KONZ

2011: James Carpenter, John Moffitt, KJ Wright, Kris Durham, Richard Sherman, Mark Legree, Byron Maxwell, Lazarius Levingston, Malcolm Smith, Doug Baldwin as notable UDFA

2012: Bruce Irvin, Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson, Robert Turbin, Jaye Howard, Korey Toomer, Jeremy Lane, Winston Guy, JR Sweezy, Greg Scruggs

Man this is harder than I expected. I'd have to rank them like this:

THE ELITE:
Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Russell Wilson, Russell Okung.

THE VERY GOOD, WITH POTENTIAL TO BE ELITE: Kam Chancellor, Bobby Wagner, KJ Wright.

GOOD, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE DIMENSIONS IN THEIR GAME: Golden Tate, Bruce Irvin, Doug Baldwin.

STOP GETTING INJURED!!! James Carpenter, Walter Thurmond.

SO MUCH POTENTIAL, NEED MORE TIME: Jeremy Lane, Malcolm Smith, Robert Turbin, JR Sweezy, Greg Scruggs.

THE DEPTH: Anthony McCoy, Byron Maxwell, Winston Guy, Jaye Howard.

COULDN'T MAKE THE CUT: EJ Wilson, Dexter Davis, Jameson Konz, Kris Durham, Mark Legree, Lazarius Levingston, Korey Toomer.

What you guys think?


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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Are we just looking at the players or at the quality of the draft pick? Looks about right but I think you have to take into account where they were drafted. Based on where they were drafted i'd say that Chancellor and Wright should be in that elite category.

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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:16 pm 
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JSeahawks wrote:
Are we just looking at the players or at the quality of the draft pick? Looks about right but I think you have to take into account where they were drafted. Based on where they were drafted i'd say that Chancellor and Wright should be in that elite category.


I'm looking more at the players, as I don't think KJ and Chancellor deserve to be mentioned in the elite category, while Okung and Thomas for example would be downgraded because they were such high picks. So go in this assuming all these guys are equal in terms of where they are drafted.

JS grades out well on any scale though, these are amazing drafts.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:42 pm 
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I think you did a good job and I wouldn't disagree.

I think you could move up McCoy to the so much potential, need more time. The thing with McCoy is that he is a solid blocker as well. Some fans (not saying you) may only look at his receptions to form opinions on him, but go watch Marshawns runs this year and especially his first TD run against the ninners. McCoy is doing a fine job in his role and he seems to be growing.

And I think eventually Baldwin could go into the very good category. I think he and Wilson are building rapport. Depending on what the Seahawks plan to do at receiver this off season and the injuries of Sidney Rice, I could see Baldwin growing in this offense. I kind of view him as the Bobby Engram type in this offense. It just depends how much the Seahawks want and need to lean on him as a primary receiver. Baldwin could go catchless in a game or he could get 8 receptions. Just depends on what opposing defenses give us. ESPN does a good job at targets stats. Baldwin lately is getting 4, 5 and recently 6 targets as of late. If he continues to get targeted 80 times a season he would probably be a 700/800 yard receiver and a top 50 receiver, which to me is pretty good.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:50 pm 
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I'd move McCoy up into the "more dimensions" category, given that he's got three touchdowns on the season.

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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:44 pm 
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I think you did a good job and I wouldn't disagree.

I think you could move up McCoy to the so much potential, need more time. The thing with McCoy is that he is a solid blocker as well. Some fans (not saying you) may only look at his receptions to form opinions on him, but go watch Marshawns runs this year and especially his first TD run against the ninners. McCoy is doing a fine job in his role and he seems to be growing.

And I think eventually Baldwin could go into the very good category. I think he and Wilson are building rapport. Depending on what the Seahawks plan to do at receiver this off season and the injuries of Sidney Rice, I could see Baldwin growing in this offense. I kind of view him as the Bobby Engram type in this offense. It just depends how much the Seahawks want and need to lean on him as a primary receiver. Baldwin could go catchless in a game or he could get 8 receptions. Just depends on what opposing defenses give us. ESPN does a good job at targets stats. Baldwin lately is getting 4, 5 and recently 6 targets as of late. If he continues to get targeted 80 times a season he would probably be a 700/800 yard receiver and a top 50 receiver, which to me is pretty good.


I never see our receivers as big yards kind of guys. Our offense is more in the deadly efficient category.... If we go in the redzone three times, we will score a TD three times, ect. Really limits the yards they can get, but ups the scores they can get.

And the point of these is once you move up a category, you aren't done there :) lol

AND! About McCoy, I thought about moving him up, and I am a big McCoy fan, defended him his whole time here, but I just can't see him moving past Zach Miller, so he's depth. Hopefully he proves me wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:05 am 
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I can't disagree with any of that. I do think that Irvin has elite potential if Seattle further bolsters their D-line and/or Carroll develops a willingness to blitz much more frequently.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:40 pm 
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EJ Wilson, DE, North Carolina

Man, I swear upon seeing that CJ Wilson, DE, East Carolina became a productive draft pick by the Packers (the team JS had just left) and seeing as EJ wasn't even considered a draftable prospect and didn't fit at all in the Hawks scheme - I'm thinking something got messed up over the phone or on the card. lol.

This FO has just been phenomenal though.

Looking at all those picks, the depth on this team and the bunch of picks they have upocoming it'll be really hard for a lot of the 2013 picks to make the team. There may not be a lot of jobs available.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:32 pm 
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I'll see if I can actually rank them, 1 thru 29. I'll consider current performance, potential, draft value, positional value, and injuries.

1. Russell Wilson
Elite QB, great leader, makes his teammates better, and a great role model. And he was taken in the 3rd round. How can he not be #1?

2. Richard Sherman
A 6-3 shutdown corner is a true rarity in the NFL. He's the best CB in the NFL right now and was taken in the 5th round. He's the only potential answer to my question above about why Wilson wouldn't be #1 on this list. He's only 2nd to Wilson because of positional value.

3. Earl Thomas
Like Sherman, he's possibly the best player in the NFL at his position. His speed enables the secondary to play the way they do. I rank Sherman higher because Thomas was a 1st round pick, and CB is a more valuable position.

4. Kam Chancellor
As a 5th round pick, he made the Pro Bowl in his second year, first year of starting. He's not quite as good in coverage as ET, but makes up for it by providing a very intimidating presence in the secondary. Based on draft value, you could make an argument that he could be ranked higher than ET, but I think ET is clearly the better player and more important to the defense.

5. Bobby Wagner
He's been very solid as a rookie leading a veteran defense and making plays. He's outplaying his draft position, but he might have been available a little later.

6. Russell Okung
There were very high expectations for him after he was drafted sixth overall. Injuries slowed him down his first couple seasons, but he's now finally living up to his potential and draft position. If you made this list for most teams or their last 3 drafts, and he was on another team, he would probably rank higher than 6th.

7. KJ Wright
Solid outside linebacker, playing above his draft position, but not to the degree that Sherman and Chancellor are.

8. Doug Baldwin
Baldwin made NFL history by being the first rookie UDFA WR to lead his team in receptions. He'd be much higher on this list if he was able to match last year's production this year. Thanks to his recent production, I still have high hopes for him.

9. Golden Tate
It took a while, but Tate is finally showing the playmaking potential that made him a late 2nd round pick. He could've been higher on the list if he produced sooner, like Baldwin.

10. Bruce Irvin
He's getting his sacks, but so far he's a one-dimensional pass rusher. I don't believe the reports that the Jets were prepared to take him with the next pick. I believe he was overdrafted, maybe not by a full round, but at least 10-15 picks. I like his potential, and he fit a need, but he wasn't a good value.

11. Walter Thurmond III
He had first round talent and slipped to the fourth round because of an injury. So far he hasn't really been able to overcome the injuries. If he ever does, like Okung seems to have done, he could be a great player and give us ridiculous depth in the secondary.

12. Robert Turbin
A solid RB and good value for where he was drafted. Our offense would take a slight step back if Lynch went down with an injury or DUI suspension and Turbin had to carry the load, but it wouldn't be half as bad as it was last year when he missed the Browns game.

13. John Moffitt
Average guard taken in the 3rd round. I've heard rumors he doesn't have the best work ethics and dedication.

14. Jeremy Lane
Good on special teams, and has played well in his few games that he's had to start in place of Browner. Another late pick with a lot of potential.

15. JR Sweezy
He has a ton of potential, which is what you want out of 7th round picks. I'd like to see what he can do at RT.

16. Anthony McCoy
He's turning into a solid player. Good draft value.

17. James Carpenter
Like Sweezy, all he's got right now is potential, but that isn't enough for a first round pick. He was overdrafted by a round, and he was bad last year at the position he was drafted to play. He hasn't been able to stay healthy, so its going to be hard for him to fulfill that potential.

18. Malcolm Smith
Fast LB and played well in Leroy Hill's absence. I'd like to see more playing time for him.

19. Greg Scruggs
7th round pick that's provided a little bit of pass rush pressure in his limited snaps.

20. Byron Maxwell
He might belong higher on this list, but I just don't see or hear enough about him. I think Lane has been better.

21. Winston Guy
Late round pick that people were hoping could be another big hitter like Chancellor. So far he hasn't shown anything.

22. Jaye Howard
4th round pick that hasn't shown anything yet.

I'm getting tired of writing this post, and 23 thru 29 are all players who didn't make the team, so you can arrange them in reverse order of draft position.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:38 pm 
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hawksfan515 wrote:
THE ELITE: Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas, Russell Wilson, Russell Okung.

THE VERY GOOD, WITH POTENTIAL TO BE ELITE: Kam Chancellor, Bobby Wagner, KJ Wright.

GOOD, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE DIMENSIONS IN THEIR GAME: Golden Tate, Bruce Irvin, Doug Baldwin.

STOP GETTING INJURED!!! James Carpenter, Walter Thurmond.

SO MUCH POTENTIAL, NEED MORE TIME: Jeremy Lane, Malcolm Smith, Robert Turbin, JR Sweezy, Greg Scruggs.

THE DEPTH: Anthony McCoy, Byron Maxwell, Winston Guy, Jaye Howard.

COULDN'T MAKE THE CUT: EJ Wilson, Dexter Davis, Jameson Konz, Kris Durham, Mark Legree, Lazarius Levingston, Korey Toomer.


Where does John Moffitt fit on your list?


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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:44 am 
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Here's one that makes me curious:

Which player was a better draft value?

Russell Wilson in the 3rd round

Richard Sherman in the 5th.

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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:25 am 
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Erebus wrote:
I'll see if I can actually rank them, 1 thru 29. I'll consider current performance, potential, draft value, positional value, and injuries.

1. Russell Wilson
Elite QB, great leader, makes his teammates better, and a great role model. And he was taken in the 3rd round. How can he not be #1?

2. Richard Sherman
A 6-3 shutdown corner is a true rarity in the NFL. He's the best CB in the NFL right now and was taken in the 5th round. He's the only potential answer to my question above about why Wilson wouldn't be #1 on this list. He's only 2nd to Wilson because of positional value.

3. Earl Thomas
Like Sherman, he's possibly the best player in the NFL at his position. His speed enables the secondary to play the way they do. I rank Sherman higher because Thomas was a 1st round pick, and CB is a more valuable position.

4. Kam Chancellor
As a 5th round pick, he made the Pro Bowl in his second year, first year of starting. He's not quite as good in coverage as ET, but makes up for it by providing a very intimidating presence in the secondary. Based on draft value, you could make an argument that he could be ranked higher than ET, but I think ET is clearly the better player and more important to the defense.

5. Bobby Wagner
He's been very solid as a rookie leading a veteran defense and making plays. He's outplaying his draft position, but he might have been available a little later.

6. Russell Okung
There were very high expectations for him after he was drafted sixth overall. Injuries slowed him down his first couple seasons, but he's now finally living up to his potential and draft position. If you made this list for most teams or their last 3 drafts, and he was on another team, he would probably rank higher than 6th.

7. KJ Wright
Solid outside linebacker, playing above his draft position, but not to the degree that Sherman and Chancellor are.

8. Doug Baldwin
Baldwin made NFL history by being the first rookie UDFA WR to lead his team in receptions. He'd be much higher on this list if he was able to match last year's production this year. Thanks to his recent production, I still have high hopes for him.

9. Golden Tate
It took a while, but Tate is finally showing the playmaking potential that made him a late 2nd round pick. He could've been higher on the list if he produced sooner, like Baldwin.

10. Bruce Irvin
He's getting his sacks, but so far he's a one-dimensional pass rusher. I don't believe the reports that the Jets were prepared to take him with the next pick. I believe he was overdrafted, maybe not by a full round, but at least 10-15 picks. I like his potential, and he fit a need, but he wasn't a good value.

11. Walter Thurmond III
He had first round talent and slipped to the fourth round because of an injury. So far he hasn't really been able to overcome the injuries. If he ever does, like Okung seems to have done, he could be a great player and give us ridiculous depth in the secondary.

12. Robert Turbin
A solid RB and good value for where he was drafted. Our offense would take a slight step back if Lynch went down with an injury or DUI suspension and Turbin had to carry the load, but it wouldn't be half as bad as it was last year when he missed the Browns game.

13. John Moffitt
Average guard taken in the 3rd round. I've heard rumors he doesn't have the best work ethics and dedication.

14. Jeremy Lane
Good on special teams, and has played well in his few games that he's had to start in place of Browner. Another late pick with a lot of potential

15. JR Sweezy
He has a ton of potential, which is what you want out of 7th round picks. I'd like to see what he can do at RT.

16. Anthony McCoy
He's turning into a solid player. Good draft value.

17. James Carpenter
Like Sweezy, all he's got right now is potential, but that isn't enough for a first round pick. He was overdrafted by a round, and he was bad last year at the position he was drafted to play. He hasn't been able to stay healthy, so its going to be hard for him to fulfill that potential.

18. Malcolm Smith
Fast LB and played well in Leroy Hill's absence. I'd like to see more playing time for him.

19. Greg Scruggs
7th round pick that's provided a little bit of pass rush pressure in his limited snaps.

20. Byron Maxwell
He might belong higher on this list, but I just don't see or hear enough about him. I think Lane has beenbetter.

21. Winston Guy
Late round pick that people were hoping could be another big hitter like Chancellor. So far he hasn't shown anything.

22. Jaye Howard
4th round pick that hasn't shown anything yet.

I'm getting tired of writing this post, and 23 thru 29 are all players who didn't make the team, so you can arrange them in reverse order of draft position.



Magnificent post man.

And i did forget John Moffitt, but to me he's just an average to below average guard. I think Sweezy will overtake him soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:35 am 
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Sarlacc83 wrote:
Here's one that makes me curious:

Which player was a better draft value?

Russell Wilson in the 3rd round

Richard Sherman in the 5th.


That is a good question. I would say Wilson simply because he plays quarterback. Quarterbacks can have a tendency to be overdrafted as opposed to the other positions.

The argument for Sherman would be that he was taken in the fifth and is arguably the best at his position


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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:35 am 
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If Russell Okung keeps playing at the level that he is playing right now then he should ALWAYS rank at the top right next to our franchise QB Russell Wilson. Franchise QB and franchise LT's are very very hard to find in this league.

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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:53 pm 
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Erebus wrote:

17. James Carpenter
Like Sweezy, all he's got right now is potential, but that isn't enough for a first round pick. He was overdrafted by a round, and he was bad last year at the position he was drafted to play. He hasn't been able to stay healthy, so its going to be hard for him to fulfill that potential.



I really dislike this popular take on Carp. You're talking about a guy with pro bowl ability being considered a reach. How is that overdrafted? He's injured, and if truth were told, Okung would have been put in the same spot last year by a lot of people. I don't mind putting him in an unproven/hasn't reached his potential category, but if anyone has watched him he has huge upside.

Next year I envision Carp at LG next to Okung. How's that for a road grading left side? It's his natural side and with Sweezy developing into a madman on the right the OL can be even better than it is now. Not to mention Carp is the one guard we can plug in who has elite pass blocking potential.

As far as the rest I agree and it amazes me how good we have been drafting.

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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Fuzzman55 wrote:
Erebus wrote:

17. James Carpenter
Like Sweezy, all he's got right now is potential, but that isn't enough for a first round pick. He was overdrafted by a round, and he was bad last year at the position he was drafted to play. He hasn't been able to stay healthy, so its going to be hard for him to fulfill that potential.



I really dislike this popular take on Carp. You're talking about a guy with pro bowl ability being considered a reach. How is that overdrafted? He's injured, and if truth were told, Okung would have been put in the same spot last year by a lot of people. I don't mind putting him in an unproven/hasn't reached his potential category, but if anyone has watched him he has huge upside.

Next year I envision Carp at LG next to Okung. How's that for a road grading left side? It's his natural side and with Sweezy developing into a madman on the right the OL can be even better than it is now. Not to mention Carp is the one guard we can plug in who has elite pass blocking potential.

As far as the rest I agree and it amazes me how good we have been drafting.


I appreciate your Seahawks-colored view of Carpenter, but I don't think you're evaluating him objectively. The fact of the matter is he was terrible last year at RT, with a -20 grade from Pro Football Focus (zero is average, -20 was good for 66th out of 76 eligible tackles). This year he's shown improvement while playing LG, but still below average at -7.6. So far there is nothing elite about his game, but I did mention in my original post that he has a lot of potential.

This may be unfair to say, because he's not the only reason for it, but it was right after he went out with an injury this year that the Seahawks started averaging 50 points a game, thanks to their rushing prowess. And with them averaging 50 points a game without him, it just goes to show that they really don't need him for the offense to be successful.

He was overdrafted by a round based on pre-draft publications, which for the most part are fairly accurate to within half a round in the 1st and 2nd rounds (yes I know there are exceptions). The only reason to dispute that, IMO, is believing the post-draft press the Seahawks used to hype him up, which every team does for their draft picks.


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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Carpenter was a horrible pick. If we wanted him so bad we could have had him in round 2 or maybe 3.

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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Erebus wrote:
Fuzzman55 wrote:
Erebus wrote:

17. James Carpenter
Like Sweezy, all he's got right now is potential, but that isn't enough for a first round pick. He was overdrafted by a round, and he was bad last year at the position he was drafted to play. He hasn't been able to stay healthy, so its going to be hard for him to fulfill that potential.



I really dislike this popular take on Carp. You're talking about a guy with pro bowl ability being considered a reach. How is that overdrafted? He's injured, and if truth were told, Okung would have been put in the same spot last year by a lot of people. I don't mind putting him in an unproven/hasn't reached his potential category, but if anyone has watched him he has huge upside.

Next year I envision Carp at LG next to Okung. How's that for a road grading left side? It's his natural side and with Sweezy developing into a madman on the right the OL can be even better than it is now. Not to mention Carp is the one guard we can plug in who has elite pass blocking potential.

As far as the rest I agree and it amazes me how good we have been drafting.


I appreciate your Seahawks-colored view of Carpenter, but I don't think you're evaluating him objectively. The fact of the matter is he was terrible last year at RT, with a -20 grade from Pro Football Focus (zero is average, -20 was good for 66th out of 76 eligible tackles). This year he's shown improvement while playing LG, but still below average at -7.6. So far there is nothing elite about his game, but I did mention in my original post that he has a lot of potential.

This may be unfair to say, because he's not the only reason for it, but it was right after he went out with an injury this year that the Seahawks started averaging 50 points a game, thanks to their rushing prowess. And with them averaging 50 points a game without him, it just goes to show that they really don't need him for the offense to be successful.

He was overdrafted by a round based on pre-draft publications, which for the most part are fairly accurate to within half a round in the 1st and 2nd rounds (yes I know there are exceptions). The only reason to dispute that, IMO, is believing the post-draft press the Seahawks used to hype him up, which every team does for their draft picks.


Predraft publications are only accurate to those that write them. That's their board, no one else's. We've been through a few years of Schneider drafts now and they're all reaches in every round. I'm okay with the rankings because their fun, but obviously Schneider and Cable determined him a 1st round talent and I'm a little more inclined to side with them.

And call them Seahawks colored glasses or whatever, when Carp's been healthy and fit he brings a physicality to the line no one else matches. It's all about the guy getting healthy and then we'll see. I'm just not going to jump on the 'overdrafted, reach, bust, whatever' label until he has a season of playing time under his belt.

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 Post subject: Re: Rank all of JS's Seahawk draft picks
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Am I correct in thinking that we're averaging at least 6-7 guys each year who are starters or contributors to the team, and that that is an outrageously good number?

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