Update on sherman

Navyhawkfan187 · Dec 23, 2012

bestfightstory":zqad0waa said:
I have a hard time believing him because:

A). He has a lot to lose.
B). Guy and Browner also tested positive.
C). I have taken these tests in the military and for the airlines and for the Govt.
D). I have administered these tests.
Re: C&D). The process by which these sample are gathered and tested is pretty relatively uniform and failsafe.
His story is laughable.

Due process Is for the justice system. I am not a part of that. I am one man's opinion. And I suspect he is full of crap (and adderall).

I hope his lawyers keep him on the field though.

Yes but if the bottle was faulty in the Navy where I took countless tests over 11yrs they would have dumped that sample and had me drink a bunch of water/coffee and re test with a new bottle. Any fault in the specimen cup invalidates the test, that's why you have to have positive control of the bottle from the time you grab it and inspect it until the tamper seal is placed on it, in the Navy now they even had us tip the bottle upside down on a "chem wipe" to make sure there were no leaks or anything. I have a hard time believing that the NFL sample takers are that careful about things. The test itself is uniform and fail safe yes, but if there is any discrepancy in the actual taking of the sample then the test is invalid. The NFL sample taker should have had Sherman immediately retest with a new specimen cup.

CurryStopstheRuns · Dec 23, 2012

I want to thank you MTS before I can no longer see your posts for taking less than twenty to prove that you deserve to be on my ignore list. See how I gave you the benefit of the doubt?

Okay, bye.

Will I · Dec 23, 2012

MTS":2iq9a7dn said:
Please read throughout the thread before posting replies to early replies.

I admit that I did not know that he denied the initial story. I saw the proof that he is denying that story.

And for those of you who are saying "innocent until proven guilty"...Im sorry, but hasn't he already been proven guilty?

He tested positive for Adderall, period. He is guilty, now he must prove his innocence. Notice: this is an "appeal" not a trial.

Go away troll!

SalishHawkFan · Dec 23, 2012

JSeahawks":cv7xn9tz said:
MTS":cv7xn9tz said:

Oh yeah, his defense will definitely work if this is the case, but the point is...

should that make you happy, that someone who cheated gets away with it? It happens all of the time, sure, but when you have the chance to catch and punish someone, you don't?

sigh...

Click to expand...

Yes. It would make me happy.

I'm all for morality. But i'm even more all for the Seahawks winning a Super bowl.

MTS, I am all for morality. I believe totally in what you're saying. We shouldn't be happy that someone cheated and got away with it. Which brings me to.....

Super Bowl XL.

The Testeverde helmet is a football.

Super Bowl XL.

The Ravens have an extra timeout.

Super Bowl XL.

Lame scheduling that gives every other team, every year, unfair advantages that Seattle Seahawks annually have to overcome, but which NEVER puts the Hawks in an advantageous position.

Super Bowl XL.

Sorry, but after all the times the Hawks have been cheated, well, to quote Clark Gable

Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn

MTS · Dec 23, 2012

See ya! Thanks for reading.

Now, off of personal attacks. Another thing that we aren't sure of (since that is the route we are taking), there hasn't been ANY proof by anyone that what Sherman is claiming is even true regarding the bottle. He just stated it...so now can they prove it?

Navyhawkfan187 · Dec 23, 2012

kmedic":2cs975mq said:
Sherman never said he didn't take Adderall or any other PED. All he said was that the truth would come out and that he would be ok. Besides, it is illegal for any NFL employee or player to comment on a pending suspension appeal.

The defense here reminds me a lot of Ryan Braun a couple years ago. Positive for steroids, but sample tampered with (protocol not followed), therefore results thrown out.

This could work. If Sherman can subpeona the test taker and he admits to using a broken cup then I don't see how the results hold up.

This exactly, I couldn't remember who it was in MLB that got their positive test thrown out though. Any inconsistency or fault in the sample gathering process invalidates the test.

SlimHawk80 · Dec 23, 2012

SalishHawkFan":29lgqxb7 said:
JSeahawks":29lgqxb7 said:

MTS":29lgqxb7 said:

Oh yeah, his defense will definitely work if this is the case, but the point is...

should that make you happy, that someone who cheated gets away with it? It happens all of the time, sure, but when you have the chance to catch and punish someone, you don't?

sigh...

Click to expand...

Yes. It would make me happy.

I'm all for morality. But i'm even more all for the Seahawks winning a Super bowl.

Click to expand...

MTS, I am all for morality. I believe totally in what you're saying. We shouldn't be happy that someone cheated and got away with it. Which brings me to.....

Super Bowl XL.

The Testeverde helmet is a football.

Super Bowl XL.

The Ravens have an extra timeout.

Super Bowl XL.

Lame scheduling that gives every other team, every year, unfair advantages that Seattle Seahawks annually have to overcome, but which NEVER puts the Hawks in an advantageous position.

Super Bowl XL.

Sorry, but after all the times the Hawks have been cheated, well, to quote Clark Gable

Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn

Well Said

seahawksflow · Dec 23, 2012

bestfightstory":2lokaomw said:
I have a hard time believing him because:

A). He has a lot to lose.
B). Guy and Browner also tested positive.
C). I have taken these tests in the military and for the airlines and for the Govt.
D). I have administered these tests.
Re: C&D). The process by which these sample are gathered and tested is pretty relatively uniform and failsafe.
His story is laughable.

Due process Is for the justice system. I am not a part of that. I am one man's opinion. And I suspect he is full of crap (and adderall).

I hope his lawyers keep him on the field though.

Ya I tend to agree.

Even if it is true (cup seal broken). So he saw this happen and didn't say anything? If you knew you were not breaking any rules (PEDs), wouldn't you not want it to touch a broken seal cup in case it was contaminated?

It seems to me the only person who would not say something would be someone who knew they were positive at the time and knew they could use the mistake as a cop out later.

I'm not fully understanding though. By having a broken seal, are they saying that he tested positive only because it had remnants of someone else piss? Or is it purely a technicality, he is positive for PEDs, but since they didn't follow the steps perfectly he gets away with it?

kmedic · Dec 23, 2012

MTS":3tl90mv1 said:
Oh yeah, his defense will definitely work if this is the case, but the point is...

should that make you happy, that someone who cheated gets away with it? It happens all of the time, sure, but when you have the chance to catch and punish someone, you don't?

sigh...

We're not here to discuss the morality of whether or not it's right or wrong if a NFL player gets away with cheating. We're here to discuss if our starting CB Richard Sherman can win his appeal so that he can freaking play in the playoffs. Obviously, you are not a Hawks fan....

If you want to talk about whether cheating is right or wrong then send a letter to Roger Goodell or go to church today. Either way, I suggest you take your banter elsewhere. It's pointless in this thread.

MTS · Dec 23, 2012

Can they re-test him if he can prove the sample was "tampered with"? I don't know how long adderall lasts in your system.

Navyhawkfan187 · Dec 23, 2012

MTS":fro8x7ig said:
See ya! Thanks for reading.

Now, off of personal attacks. Another thing that we aren't sure of (since that is the route we are taking), there hasn't been ANY proof by anyone that what Sherman is claiming is even true regarding the bottle. He just stated it...so now can they prove it?

Sherman commented to Local Radio that the water bottle thing wasn't true. That he wasn't using that as his defense and that "the substance I tested positive for has never been in my body." So keep bringing up a false report by a 3rd hand source that was debunked the day after it was reported.

MTS · Dec 23, 2012

kmedic":30f7u7wq said:
MTS":30f7u7wq said:

Oh yeah, his defense will definitely work if this is the case, but the point is...

should that make you happy, that someone who cheated gets away with it? It happens all of the time, sure, but when you have the chance to catch and punish someone, you don't?

sigh...

Click to expand...

We're not here to discuss the morality of whether or not it's right or wrong if a NFL player gets away with cheating. We're here to discuss if our starting CB Richard Sherman can win his appeal so that he can freaking play in the playoffs. Obviously, you are not a Hawks fan....

If you want to talk about whether cheating is right or wrong then send a letter to Roger Goodell or go to church today. Either way, I suggest you take your banter elsewhere. It's pointless in this thread.

Obviously I'm not a Hawks fan because I want a cheater to take the punishment he deserves? Man, marketing is really kicking your @$$ huh?

Navyhawkfan187 · Dec 23, 2012

MTS":u9c6r5ya said:
Can they re-test him if he can prove the sample was "tampered with"? I don't know how long adderall lasts in your system.

Any amphetamine which is what the positive result was, which is what adderall is, lasts a few days at most in your system. Its a very quickly metabolized substance.

kmedic · Dec 23, 2012

seahawksflow":2u7qp8uc said:
bestfightstory":2u7qp8uc said:

I have a hard time believing him because:

A). He has a lot to lose.
B). Guy and Browner also tested positive.
C). I have taken these tests in the military and for the airlines and for the Govt.
D). I have administered these tests.
Re: C&D). The process by which these sample are gathered and tested is pretty relatively uniform and failsafe.
His story is laughable.

Due process Is for the justice system. I am not a part of that. I am one man's opinion. And I suspect he is full of crap (and adderall).

I hope his lawyers keep him on the field though.

Click to expand...

Ya I tend to agree.

Even if it is true (cup seal broken). So he saw this happen and didn't say anything? If you knew you were not breaking any rules (PEDs), wouldn't you not want it to touch a broken seal cup in case it was contaminated?

It seems to me the only person who would not say something would be someone who knew they were positive at the time and knew they could use the mistake as a cop out later.

I'm not fully understanding though. By having a broken seal, are they saying that he tested positive only because it had remnants of someone else piss? Or is it purely a technicality, he is positive for PEDs, but since they didn't follow the steps perfectly he gets away with it?

He gets off on a technicality. As I mentioned before, this reminds me a lot of the whole Ryan Braun deal. He was clearly positive, but got off because protocol was broken.

And for those wondering whether I care or not if he was actually positive? NO. :177692:

MTS · Dec 23, 2012

Sherman commented to Local Radio that the water bottle thing wasn't true. That he wasn't using that as his defense and that "the substance I tested positive for has never been in my body." So keep bringing up a false report by a 3rd hand source that was debunked the day after it was reported.[/quote]

When I said "bottle" I meant the bottle he urinated in that magically broke and caused them to use an adderall-laced bottle. I already stated that I have heard/understood that he has denied the water-bottle drinking "claim" that someone obviously made up to write the news without any cause or purpose.

taz291819 · Dec 23, 2012

MTS":12burlpm said:
See ya! Thanks for reading.

Now, off of personal attacks. Another thing that we aren't sure of (since that is the route we are taking), there hasn't been ANY proof by anyone that what Sherman is claiming is even true regarding the bottle. He just stated it...so now can they prove it?

The NFL will (or has) talk to the person that administered the test. That person has nothing to hide, it's not like they'll get fired for it. We haven't heard anything about that because they aren't allowed to comment on it.

I read somewhere that Sherman has been tested before and after the testing in question took place. Haven't heard anything about him testing positive in those cases.

And to the OP that asked about hair samples. I believe Adderall is like alcohol, it only stays in your system for something like 24 hours. I don't believe it would show up in a hair sample.

seahawksflow · Dec 23, 2012

Navyhawkfan187":2jdmd60e said:
MTS":2jdmd60e said:

Can they re-test him if he can prove the sample was "tampered with"? I don't know how long adderall lasts in your system.

Click to expand...

Any amphetamine which is what the positive result was, which is what adderall is, lasts a few days at most in your system. Its a very quickly metabolized substance.

What about things that Adderall has been used to cover up? (Not saying this is the case). How long do some of those last in the system?

kmedic":2jdmd60e said:
seahawksflow":2jdmd60e said:

bestfightstory":2jdmd60e said:

I have a hard time believing him because:

A). He has a lot to lose.
B). Guy and Browner also tested positive.
C). I have taken these tests in the military and for the airlines and for the Govt.
D). I have administered these tests.
Re: C&D). The process by which these sample are gathered and tested is pretty relatively uniform and failsafe.
His story is laughable.

Due process Is for the justice system. I am not a part of that. I am one man's opinion. And I suspect he is full of crap (and adderall).

I hope his lawyers keep him on the field though.

Click to expand...

Ya I tend to agree.

Even if it is true (cup seal broken). So he saw this happen and didn't say anything? If you knew you were not breaking any rules (PEDs), wouldn't you not want it to touch a broken seal cup in case it was contaminated?

It seems to me the only person who would not say something would be someone who knew they were positive at the time and knew they could use the mistake as a cop out later.

I'm not fully understanding though. By having a broken seal, are they saying that he tested positive only because it had remnants of someone else piss? Or is it purely a technicality, he is positive for PEDs, but since they didn't follow the steps perfectly he gets away with it?

Click to expand...

He gets off on a technicality. As I mentioned before, this reminds me a lot of the whole Ryan Braun deal. He was clearly positive, but got off because protocol was broken.

Thanks for the clarification.

MTS · Dec 23, 2012

Another issue...

When they give urinalysis tests (I have done in the past for employment), the test-giver has to sign off that they not only inspected the bottle and that it was unbroken seal, they made me sign off on it, too.

One thing that makes me wonder:

If this bottle had broken and he knew it, why did Sherman wait alllll the way until now to appeal it instead of requesting that a new sample be taken on the spot? I don't know...maybe he wanted to wait because he knew the second test would be dirty too?

Because you know, he could have requested to take the sample again to be sure that something like this didnt happen.

But of course, what do I know? I am an idiot non-Seahawks fan that just hates Sherman from San Francisco with no education and I am just trolling.

BocciHawk · Dec 23, 2012

Hair test would be meaningless for any amphetamine.

Honestly the more I hear about all this the more I think the NFL has a lame testing system. Cycling takes multiple samples, and keeps the others on ice until appeals are resolved. The simple fact they don't have a second sample to go to is just mind boggling. It's also very questionable that the sample was placed in another vessel, as no hands or anything should come in contact with the fluid... if a guy took the sample, was handling it, getting urine on his hands, then the sweat and anything else from his hands is getting into the sample, too, even while he's putting the sample in another cup. It's tainted, pure and simple.

I've stated before and again that a good outcome from this would be that Sherman gets off, and the NFL restructures and improves their testing to bring it in line with other world class sports...

MTS · Dec 23, 2012

BocciHawk":1mu8eunz said:
Hair test would be meaningless for any amphetamine.

Honestly the more I hear about all this the more I think the NFL has a lame testing system. Cycling takes multiple samples, and keeps the others on ice until appeals are resolved. The simple fact they don't have a second sample to go to is just mind boggling. It's also very questionable that the sample was placed in another vessel, as no hands or anything should come in contact with the fluid... if a guy took the sample, was handling it, getting urine on his hands, then the sweat and anything else from his hands is getting into the sample, too, even while he's putting the sample in another cup. It's tainted, pure and simple.

I've stated before and again that a good outcome from this would be that Sherman gets off, and the NFL restructures and improves their testing to bring it in line with other world class sports...

Sherman should have complained about the faulty testing and took the sample again on the spot....

Or would he have no excuse for later then?

Update on sherman

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