Don't get me wrong; I know millions of people of faith benefit from their faith. Being a clean addict and an agnostic, I believe in something, not sure what it is, but I believe and it has helped me. This though is why it seems to me, religion is so often one of the worst things to happen to society.

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I would say that guy won. Finland > India. How many people drank said holy toilet water I wonder. It's a miracle!

So a small pack of idiots displays their foolishness, and religion becomes "one of the worst things to happen to society"?

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There has been more death and hatred over religion than just about anything else. Yes, it is very often a destructive force; history clearly shows this.

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Oh c'mon, man. This is more of a sentiment than a quantifiable fact. People who use religion to justify stupidity are stupid, and fully responsible for their own actions.

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seems like every war has been started over in part to religious beliefs in one form or the other... how many innocent lives have been destroyed or worse over religion... hard to argue history.

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American Revolution, Civil War, Vietnam, WWI, WWII, War of 1812, War in Afghanistan, Desert Storm, to name a few. Wars occur due to conflict of ideologies, religion being one. We would still fight wars without religion.

good point, but i still think all those wars listed , had some religious conotations envolved to some degree... would be interesting to dig a little deeper and see how many wars started over religious beliefs , how many not.. i would think the ratio would be greatly one sided.. i am no expert by any means..

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I'm not a religious person by any means...

And certainly you can argue that religion is the cause of many wars.

But it's hard to see the other side of the picture that never happened. If religion never existed, then people would come up with their own beliefs and get in arguments over that. Here's kind of how I see it.

With Religion:

Country A believes in Religion X as a whole
Country B believes in Religion Y as a whole

They get in a war over it...but the people in both countries are united with each other

Without Religion:

Country A and B believe in nothing and thus they fight among themselves because they are not as United.

This is really just a wild-ass theory.

Implying that humans would not act just as stupid and foolish throughout history without religion

If it's not religion, then it's political. If it's not political, then it's economical. Humans will always find a reason to fight wars. I agree.

This theory is a flaming pile of shit.

Want quantification? Careful what you wish for.

French Wars of Religion - Fought in the 1500s, waged between Catholics and Protestants. Millions of lives claimed. Religious differences were the primary motivator.

Thirty Years War - Fought in the early to mid 1600s, this bloody war, waged between Catholic and Protestant forces, claimed millions of lives. Religious differences were the primary motivator.

The Crusades - As many as three million dead over a 200 year period, starting in the 11th Century. Fought between Muslims and Christians.

Sudanese Civil War - Fought between Christians and Muslims, a couple million dead over a 20 year period.

Nigerian Civil War - Fought between Christians and Muslims, a couple million dead in just three years.

The Dungan Revolt - As many as 10 million lives lost during the mid 1800s in China.

The Old Testament - Do I really need to mention the myriad lives lost due to religious superstition, as stated in the Bible?

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Historically, religion has caused major conflicts and countless deaths. In the last few hundred years wars have been much more politically or economically motivated. The more religion is phased out the more we'll find different reasons to kill each other. It's not religion, it's humans.

I could not agree more...........your statement is 100% accurate

Ok, maybe that wasn't a miracle.

But how do you explain the Virgin Mary appearing on a tortilla in Juarez, Mexico?

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If someone doesn't disagree with you in the simplest form of your 'undeniable' creator it's a lot easier to resolve things. It wouldn't mean the ending of murder, wars and fighting... but it would make it a lot easier to discuss things.

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It's human nature to make war. Always has been, and quite frankly probably always will be. On every continent, during every century, humans have fought each other over countless "reasons".

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No. It's not human nature. It's been humans past to conquer each other and push their way of life and belief system.

I don't wake up every morning looking to "go to war" it's not my nature to start killing others just because. Is it yours?

War isn't human nature, war is a result of human actions. When things can't be worked out amicably. It's the result of greed of leaders. Calling war "human nature" is just giving an excuse to let it happen. We don't need war, we don't have to have it. It's just a seemingly easier way to resolve things than most have the intelligence or patience to do.

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The Sudanese, Nigerian, and Dungan wars were politically and ethnically motivated. Calling them "religious wars" is like calling the Revolutionary War a "religious war" because the religions of Britain and her colonies were of different flavor. Sure, it didn't create any goodwill between the two sides and may have been used to further the animosity, but that doesn't make it a legitimate tinderbox. It makes it a supporting tool at worst, and says more about men than it does about religion.

The Thirty Years War started out as a religious conflict, though other factors were involved, but coasted on long afterwards on political interests. It and the French Wars helped to weaken the tyrannical Catholic Church by progressing religious freedom in Europe, so you're welcome. But if you're not an "ends justifies the means" type, and neither am I, then it's also easy to dismiss the Roman Catholic Church of the Middle Ages as not a pure religion but a corrupted mechanism for holding on to power and wealth. Many religions have that sect, and like others here have said, it's less of a diss on religion than it is the corruption of man.

As for the Old Testament - if you're referring to Joshua's conquest of Canaan, which many people usually are, then nowhere in the OT does it explicitly teach that genocide by man's will is a morally approved thing. Canaan was instanced war, ordered by divine will, that killed off certain peoples so morally depraved and degenerate by even today's standards, and so ominously positioned as a geographical crossroads between three continents, that their total removal stands as a benefit to the human race. These people practiced slow infant sacrifice, bestiality, incest, and brutal genocides of their own.

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