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 Post subject: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:11 pm 
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At different points this season, this forum has been dominated by:

1. Wilson needs to be benched for Flynn

2. Darrell Bevell isn't doing a good enough job

3. When will Pete Carroll be on the hot seat

As we prepare for the biggest game of the season so far, the following is true:

1. Wilson is a legit candidate for offensive rookie of the year, breaking multiple records this season while looking every bit a franchise quarterback.

2. Bevell has organised the offense from which Wilson has excelled and been able to achieve his success. The team also has one of the best rushing attacks in the league, has been creative and conservative at various times and has executed the type of trick plays that seemed to beat us all the time in the Holmgren era. Our offense has produced long, 80-90 yard drives but has also mastered the quick strike. The guy deserves a lot more credit.

3. Carroll inherited a hopeless team with zero identity going absolutely nowhere fast. And he's one win away from guaranteeing two playoff appearances in three seasons with that same team, having built a fine identity, core of franchise players, found a franchise quarterback. The list goes on. He's turned the Seahawks into a contender that people are starting to say could make the Super Bowl this season. A truly remarkable job.

Three people who have been knocked during the course of the year, all doing fantastic jobs for this team.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:16 pm 
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I am guilty of number 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:16 pm 
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All of these are impressive. Pete Carroll is coach of the year. I don't care who the actual award goes to.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:18 pm 
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yeah, it's unbelievable how little love Bevell gets here.

It's either insane hate, or no love. Just like a stud guard.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:19 pm 
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I always thought the Bevell criticism was unfair and premature. I always thought he did a great job designing interesting plays and now that he has the QB to execute - we can see his scheme at work.

As for the other two, I think the Wilson talk finished up very very quickly. To have an entire fan base on board with a 3rd round rookie QB by about week 8 is phenomenal.

Lastly, the Pete Carroll criticism would be much louder if we had not won the last three game and lost two more game on the road. I thought the season could have gone either way after Miami as losing to that team after a bye was inexcusable. I said at the beginning of the year that we needed to make the play-offs this year and not be an also-ran. I think we have proved that.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
I am guilty of number 2.


Everybody poops...

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:21 pm 
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KARAVARUS wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
I am guilty of number 2.


Everybody poops...

Thank you, I left that hanging just hoping somebody would hit it.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:23 pm 
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KARAVARUS wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
I am guilty of number 2.


Everybody poops...



Some more then others! :stirthepot:


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:27 pm 
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TDOTSEAHAWK wrote:
I always thought the Bevell criticism was unfair and premature.


Even looking back on it it's difficult too know whether or not this is true. Did Wilson develop the way he has because of the limitations placed on the offense during the first few weeks? Entirely possible.
However it's also possible that he was capable of doing what he's doing now all along, or at least much earlier than he was allowed to display it this season. We'll never know.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:34 pm 
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IBleedBlueAndGreen wrote:
Even looking back on it it's difficult too know whether or not this is true. Did Wilson develop the way he has because of the limitations placed on the offense during the first few weeks? Entirely possible.
However it's also possible that he was capable of doing what he's doing now all along, or at least much earlier than he was allowed to display it this season. We'll never know.


Maybe he was capable of that - but too many people assumed the conservative stuff earlier in the year was all on Bevell. Carroll has been quite open in stating he was behind that. If anything, I think the shackles are off Bevell as well as Wilson. If Bevell was a big name like Tom Cable, people would be raving about what he's done here.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Bevel and Bradley get roasted here simply because they do what PC tells them to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:46 pm 
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#1 was always dumb.
#2 was true off and on, and I was guilty of it.
#3 was also always dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Wait until we lose 2-3 games ... and some voices will get louder than others ...

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:00 pm 
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I say we were right saying Bevell should have opened up the offense sooner. We should have a 12-2 record if this forum did the playcalling :D


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:02 pm 
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im guilty on #2 Sorry Bevell will you forgive us


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:02 pm 
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joeseahawks wrote:
Wait until we lose 2-3 games ... and some voices will get louder than others ...


We are not going to go on a 2 game losing streak the rest of this season, I guarantee you that.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:41 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
I say we were right saying Bevell should have opened up the offense sooner. We should have a 12-2 record if this forum did the playcalling :D



Or maybe 2-12


Its really tough on these people that hind sight isn't even in their favor.

and I've been guilty of complaining. I still am worried about our run D. But have realized its probably better when struggling than our entire 05 season.

:les:

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:23 pm 
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There will always be ebbs and flows, ups and downs. No coach will be perfect nor will any player. They are human beings. Sometimes we need to take a step back, breathe deeply and remind ourselves of that fact.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:29 pm 
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I'm still guilty of #2 and will be as long as we setup in empty sets on 3rd and short - sure I love it when it works, but I think that Marshawn could generally make most of those conversions in his sleep.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
I am guilty of number 2.


Yea but Bevell was blowing it early on, I stand by my claim.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:41 pm 
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sc85sis wrote:
Only one team has had a perfect season including winning the Super Bowl, and that team had 2 fewer games to play in the regular season.

There will always be ebbs and flows, ups and downs. No coach will be perfect nor will any player. They are human beings. Sometimes we need to take a step back, breathe deeply and remind ourselves of that fact.


Good point, losses will happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:44 pm 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
At different points this season, this forum has been dominated by:

1. Wilson needs to be benched for Flynn

2. Darrell Bevell isn't doing a good enough job

3. When will Pete Carroll be on the hot seat

As we prepare for the biggest game of the season so far, the following is true:

1. Wilson is a legit candidate for offensive rookie of the year, breaking multiple records this season while looking every bit a franchise quarterback.

2. Bevell has organised the offense from which Wilson has excelled and been able to achieve his success. The team also has one of the best rushing attacks in the league, has been creative and conservative at various times and has executed the type of trick plays that seemed to beat us all the time in the Holmgren era. Our offense has produced long, 80-90 yard drives but has also mastered the quick strike. The guy deserves a lot more credit.

3. Carroll inherited a hopeless team with zero identity going absolutely nowhere fast. And he's one win away from guaranteeing two playoff appearances in three seasons with that same team, having built a fine identity, core of franchise players, found a franchise quarterback. The list goes on. He's turned the Seahawks into a contender that people are starting to say could make the Super Bowl this season. A truly remarkable job.

Three people who have been knocked during the course of the year, all doing fantastic jobs for this team.


You knocked number 2 around the same time I was, but I agree with you for the most part, until (if) the offense stops working.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:45 pm 
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I still can't forgive the coaching staff for the offensive playcalling in Miami


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:47 pm 
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themunn wrote:
I still can't forgive the coaching staff for the offensive playcalling in Miami


This!

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:49 pm 
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themunn wrote:
I still can't forgive the coaching staff for the offensive playcalling in Miami


Just like how you can't give them credit for the Patriots, Lions, Vikings, Jets, Bears, and Bills games?


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:52 pm 
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themunn wrote:
I still can't forgive the coaching staff for the offensive playcalling in Miami

The run plays in that game were horrible


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:53 pm 
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theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
At different points this season, this forum has been dominated by:

1. Wilson needs to be benched for Flynn

2. Darrell Bevell isn't doing a good enough job

3. When will Pete Carroll be on the hot seat



Good topic.

#1 Only during games 1-4 when Wilson tended to overthrow and miss open receivers. He's grown up faster than anyone could have imagined.

#2 I'd credit Cable more for the rushing attack than Bevell. PC has said that Bevell is more in charge of the passing game, while Cable draws up the running plays. Before the read option came about, Bevell was still too predictable in his play calling.

#3 This was kneejerk and reactionary. I'd still like to see Carroll improve on in-game situations, and defensive adjustments though.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
I am guilty of number 2.

:13: however there have been times when it has been warranted however he seems to have learned and has improved dramatically

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:00 pm 
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Am I the only one smirking with all you guys talking about being guilty of number 2?

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:09 pm 
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Didn't the offense start clicking after Bevell implemented the read-option that Shanahan had been using all year with RGIII? Could it be that play alone that has opened up everything else? No research on my part, just wondering out loud.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:17 pm 
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Bevell will still be criticized even as we are playing for the Super Bowl. Whomever calls the offensive plays will get ripped, everybody has their own opinion on how to call a game offensively, defensively, not so much. It's something I fought vehemently against early in the season, but eventually I just gave up. People see what they want to see.

I was guilty of #1, very very guilty. I just didn't see this coming at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:33 pm 
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SoCalSeahawk wrote:
Didn't the offense start clicking after Bevell implemented the read-option that Shanahan had been using all year with RGIII? Could it be that play alone that has opened up everything else? No research on my part, just wondering out loud.

Technically that was Pete, or at least the film study and decision were his. Bevell implements it in the game plans of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
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KARAVARUS wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
I am guilty of number 2.


Everybody poops...


God I love .net!

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
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I think the guys that were get on Bevell had their ears plugged. PC said on many occasions that it was he holding back the offense in order to bring RW up slowly. Yet Bevell got blamed for the lack of dynamic play calling. The training wheels are off and Bevell shines.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:47 pm 
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v1rotv2 wrote:
I think the guys that were get on Bevell had their ears plugged. PC said on many occasions that it was he holding back the offense in order to bring RW up slowly. Yet Bevell got blamed for the lack of dynamic play calling. The training wheels are off and Bevell shines.


Did PC tell Bevell to call a draw play on 3rd and 2 after Beast Mode gashed the Rams for a couple big runs? It's not his entire offense as a whole that I complained about. He has some really good drives and then nothing for a long time. Where the play calls were mind boggling. Just look at almost every drive getting towards the end of the first half. And then look at our opening drives. Totally night and day.

Now with that I'll be the first to eat crow about Bevell. Since the Miami game, he's been great. Still has some "WTF" moments but he has been calling up more creative plays. Yes, a lot of that has to do with the training wheels coming off, but as many have said, a conservative called game doesn't mean you have to be predictable.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:54 pm 
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I'm not guilty of any.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:19 pm 
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Don't forget we have a terrible WR corps. (Rice-Tate ranked as a top 5 receiver combo in the NFL)

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:46 pm 
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I was guilty of #1, and thought Flynn would be a better starter this year than Wilson.

Sure glad I was wrong.

I think the way they handled WIlson and the offense was almost perfect. Maybe 1-2 games earlier they could've cut it loose more, but we don't see what they do in practice and on films, so it's easy for us to critisize.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:55 pm 
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After the Miami game there was one guy that declared he was done. ...don't remember his name but he missed a lot of fun since he quit the hawks.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:12 pm 
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HawkFan72 wrote:
Am I the only one smirking with all you guys talking about being guilty of number 2?


Why the smirk? I don't recall you being some big Bevell advocate, standing up for him and making threads about it, and stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:10 pm 
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I was probably the first guy on dot net that speculated about getting Green Bay's backup QB, but that was only a comment about when we got MH (and getting a Green Bay backup worked that time). I had no idea who Matt Flynn was, and he hadn't played a down as far as I knew. I only knew that ANYBODY had to be better than TJack!

I was also always against TJack, to the point that many on here gave me crap (publicly and via PM) about calling him TurdVarius. I stand by my assessment of his skilz, although I ended up being an admirer of his raw manliness in his embodiment of the warrior mentality.

I was never enamored of Bevel - he was unable to craft a championship O with Hutch and Favre, and when he was hired here TJack came as part of the package. I'm considering changing my mind. Let's see how the season ends. I was also one of the lone voices wondering about all that "In Ruskell We Trust" crap back when. However, I'm not nearly as far down on Bevel right now as I was ever down on Timmay. Bevel seems to be able to learn and change.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:10 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
HawkFan72 wrote:
Am I the only one smirking with all you guys talking about being guilty of number 2?


Why the smirk? I don't recall you being some big Bevell advocate, standing up for him and making threads about it, and stuff.

Scatalogical "humor" I believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:37 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
I am guilty of number 2.


Its okay, even Michael Jordan missed shots.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Carroll is on the hot seat next year if we don't win. We all are very happy with the team right now but a loss to the Ninners plus stumbling against the rams will greatly kill the enthusiasm.

We don't have anything solidified yet this season.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:54 pm 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:
Don't forget we have a terrible WR corps. (Rice-Tate ranked as a top 5 receiver combo in the NFL)


Good one. This should be on the list as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:58 pm 
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Tech Worlds wrote:
Carroll is on the hot seat next year if we don't win. We all are very happy with the team right now but a loss to the Ninners plus stumbling against the rams will greatly kill the enthusiasm.

We don't have anything solidified yet this season.


"Don't win" meaning losing record in 2013? You'd probably be right.

Ain't happening though.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:10 am 
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kearly wrote:
Tech Worlds wrote:
Carroll is on the hot seat next year if we don't win. We all are very happy with the team right now but a loss to the Ninners plus stumbling against the rams will greatly kill the enthusiasm.

We don't have anything solidified yet this season.


"Don't win" meaning losing record in 2013? You'd probably be right.

Ain't happening though.


I don't believe so either.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:20 am 
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My only concern was Bevell, I did not want Seahawks to go through a OC change every other year and make things worse. But some of the play calling was horrible, until the read option can into fruition. I understand complex plays take time to form and execute, but the calls were very predictable, run, throw, run and give the ball 3 and out. After an whole offseason and 2nd years players, I would have thought it would click well. I understand the training wheels, but some games, he made RW throw deep ball to win games in the last minute.... really when you had 60 minutes to move the chains, you suddenly start calling aggressive play calling in the end. That was what I was really upset about. Introducing the read option bringing in an additional element to this offense was the key to the success for sure. But still Miami, and to some extent Chicago, Carolina were all terrible in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:41 am 
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Bevell was hot garbage in the beginning of the season. I don't feel bad about calling him out.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson, Carroll, Bevell.
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:30 am 
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I was wrong about Bevell. I think I called the time of death too early on that one. While the playcalling was tepid during the early part of the season, it could just be that that was the plan in bringing Wilson along. Pete probably had more of an influence on the style and playcalling that he preferred. Now he's letting Bevell do his thing and it's flourishing. I know Vikings fans weren't a big fan of his and some Seahawks fans aren't, but I'm starting to come around to the idea that he might be hitting his stride as a coach right now. Innovative, dynamic, powerful, quick.. this offense has everything you'd want right about now. You're right English, he deserves a ton of credit.

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