Wilson vs. Kaep straight up.... who do you take?

Marvin49":2y957lu3 said:

amill87":2y957lu3 said:

Marvin49":2y957lu3 said:

Well...

1) Kaep hasn't started 6 games...he has started 5. He came in for an injured Alex Smith in that first Rams game. I also MADE that comparison in my post...so not sure why you are rehashing the argument unless its just to try to scew the number to throw in a 3TD game for Wilson


2) My entire argument isn't that "Kaep is better". I'm saying its not a case that it "isn't even close" You can say that Kaep had a full year, but you can also say that Wilson came in MUCH more pro ready than Kaep did. Kaep was RAW when he was drafted.

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I would counter that with Wilson has left the past two games early. Wilson has 143 attempts over that span and Kaep has 145. So they have nearly the same attempts but Wilson is doing more.

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LOL, is that how it works now?

Sigh.

Anything to make the number say what you want, right? I uncluded the last 5 games for Wilson in my initial post (which are better than Kaep), but that just wasn't enough? LOL. Say what you want about the respective defenses, but I'd like to see Wilson go into Foxborough in December and knock off the Pats with 4 TD passes.

I have alot of respect for Russell Wilson, but you guys are making it out like he's the next Montana and kaep is just a flash in the pan. Its pretty comical. LOL.

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And the Niner fans are making Kaep out to be the next Montana after he's only played 6 games. It goes both ways.

You were skewing your facts by comparing their first 5 games when you know Wilson was a rookie with a limited playbook coming off an offseason where he split reps. Kaep had much more time to get a feel with the playbook and Kaep has a superior offensive coach.

Let's just throw out those numbers than. Wilson still leads the NFL in QBR since week 6 and second highest QB rating the past 10 weeks. He's been playing at some of the highest level of all the QBs in the league for quite awhile now.

I think Kaep is playing at a high level right now. The question is who would I want straight up and if I'm basing that decision off of right now, I gotta go with Wilson due to performing better. It's not a knock on Kaep.[/quote]


Have you even read the whole of my first post? In the SAME POST I made the comparison with Wilsons LAST 5. I didn't pull the #5 out of thin air...that is the number of starts that Kaep has. It's just that simple.

I'm not making Kaep out to be Montana...I'm saying that it's an argument over whos better, Wilson or Kaep.

I'm not sure exactly which QBR you are talking about. If it's the ESPN one I'm linking below, then Colin is second only to Peyton Manning in total QBR.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

If you mean regular QB rating, then the number are better for Wilson, but not SOOO much better that this isn't even a comparison. Kaep has only started 5 games in his entire career and he's had a rating higher than 100 3 times. You guys want to keep setting aside Colins numbers based on his "experince" of sitting on the bench for 1.5 years. I'm willing to give Wilson credit for the fact that he's improved dramatically, but are you unwilling to see that kaep has done this in 5 freaking starts and might have a SIMILAR trajectory upwards?

Shaz":8j1ywwu3 said:

Marvin I don't think that's the general thought of Seahawks fans at all

Yeah you have a few dumbasses that are obviously bias homers but overall we all believe Kaep is a very good QB and will continue to be so

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I understand that. ;-) Thanks.

It's always the extremes you argue with...just like in politics. Its the same on our boards as well. When I say "you guys", I'm aware I'm most often talking with the less clear-sighted people on the boards. ;-)

Marvin49":2nx7cmxi said:

amill87":2nx7cmxi said:

Marvin49":2nx7cmxi said:

Well...

1) Kaep hasn't started 6 games...he has started 5. He came in for an injured Alex Smith in that first Rams game. I also MADE that comparison in my post...so not sure why you are rehashing the argument unless its just to try to scew the number to throw in a 3TD game for Wilson


2) My entire argument isn't that "Kaep is better". I'm saying its not a case that it "isn't even close" You can say that Kaep had a full year, but you can also say that Wilson came in MUCH more pro ready than Kaep did. Kaep was RAW when he was drafted.

Click to expand...

I would counter that with Wilson has left the past two games early. Wilson has 143 attempts over that span and Kaep has 145. So they have nearly the same attempts but Wilson is doing more.

Click to expand...

LOL, is that how it works now?

Sigh.

Anything to make the number say what you want, right? I uncluded the last 5 games for Wilson in my initial post (which are better than Kaep), but that just wasn't enough? LOL. Say what you want about the respective defenses, but I'd like to see Wilson go into Foxborough in December and knock off the Pats with 4 TD passes.

I have alot of respect for Russell Wilson, but you guys are making it out like he's the next Montana and kaep is just a flash in the pan. Its pretty comical. LOL.

Click to expand...

And the Niner fans are making Kaep out to be the next Montana after he's only played 6 games. It goes both ways.

You were skewing your facts by comparing their first 5 games when you know Wilson was a rookie with a limited playbook coming off an offseason where he split reps. Kaep had much more time to get a feel with the playbook and Kaep has a superior offensive coach.

Let's just throw out those numbers than. Wilson still leads the NFL in QBR since week 6 and second highest QB rating the past 10 weeks. He's been playing at some of the highest level of all the QBs in the league for quite awhile now.

I think Kaep is playing at a high level right now. The question is who would I want straight up and if I'm basing that decision off of right now, I gotta go with Wilson due to performing better. It's not a knock on Kaep.[/quote]

Oh...and BTW, Kaep didn't even get to split his reps...HE WASN'T THE STARTER.

Marvin49":jglyl9jz said:

I'm not sure exactly which QBR you are talking about. If it's the ESPN one I'm linking below, then Colin is second only to Peyton Manning in total QBR.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

If you mean regular QB rating, then the number are better for Wilson, but not SOOO much better that this isn't even a comparison. Kaep has only started 5 games in his entire career and he's had a rating higher than 100 3 times. You guys want to keep setting aside Colins numbers based on his "experince" of sitting on the bench for 1.5 years. I'm willing to give Wilson credit for the fact that he's improved dramatically, but are you unwilling to see that kaep has done this in 5 freaking starts and might have a SIMILAR trajectory upwards?

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Like I said, QBR since week 6. Sando has stated it multiple times on his blog.

I think you're missing the point. Both have potential to be really good but potential is potential for a reason. It is not yet achieved. If we are basing a decision purely off what is directly in front of us right now, Wilson is barely ahead.

I like to compare it a little bit to pitchers in baseball. When a young pitcher comes on, you don't really know how good he is until he plays for awhile. He might be as good as he looks but than he might just be catching everyone off guard and once everyone knows what he is about, he suddenly isn't as good. This holds true for both Wilson and Kaep.

I think with both fanbases there is such a passion due to how we're playing that it's created this "We rule the world" mentality which of course is ok

I think both teams have cemented themselves as the 2 most Physical and baddest teams in the NFL

Shaz":2ndoof4b said:

I think with both fanbases there is such a passion due to how we're playing that it's created this "We rule the world" mentality which of course is ok

I think both teams have cemented themselves as the 2 most Physical and baddest teams in the NFL

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That much we can agree on. ;-) I was aguing with a Pats fan last week. All he was talking about was how the SEC linebackers were the most physical in the NFL and "better" than the 49ers LBs. :shock:

Um...wha!?!

LOL!

Yeah...and Danny Woodhead is more physical than Marshawn Lynch, right? Lunatics in every forum.

amill87":1tnu058t said:

Marvin49":1tnu058t said:

I'm not sure exactly which QBR you are talking about. If it's the ESPN one I'm linking below, then Colin is second only to Peyton Manning in total QBR.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

If you mean regular QB rating, then the number are better for Wilson, but not SOOO much better that this isn't even a comparison. Kaep has only started 5 games in his entire career and he's had a rating higher than 100 3 times. You guys want to keep setting aside Colins numbers based on his "experince" of sitting on the bench for 1.5 years. I'm willing to give Wilson credit for the fact that he's improved dramatically, but are you unwilling to see that kaep has done this in 5 freaking starts and might have a SIMILAR trajectory upwards?

Click to expand...

Like I said, QBR since week 6. Sando has stated it multiple times on his blog.

I think you're missing the point. Both have potential to be really good but potential is potential for a reason. It is not yet achieved. If we are basing a decision purely off what is directly in front of us right now, Wilson is barely ahead.

I like to compare it a little bit to pitchers in baseball. When a young pitcher comes on, you don't really know how good he is until he plays for awhile. He might be as good as he looks but than he might just be catching everyone off guard and once everyone knows what he is about, he suddenly isn't as good. This holds true for both Wilson and Kaep.

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Well, I don't have the numbers in front of me to compute that so I'll trust you on that one. To be honest tho, even though Colin being second on that list looks pretty impressive, I'm not really a fan of QBR.


If all you are saying is that right now Wilson is slightly ahead of Colin then we have nothing to argue about. Colin has only started 5 games, so I'd anticipate him being much better 6 starts from now than he is now...altho that would be next year...if I'm doing the math right hopefully the season opener of next year.

Marvin49":2uqo0to5 said:

Finally...athletic ability. This one is tough to judge. Wilson is 5'11", 206, very mobile, and has a good arm. Kaep is 6'4 or 6'5", 230+, and is also very mobile....and has a CANNON of an arm.


So, in conclusion....the argument can be made that either guy is "better". I, of course would take Kaep, but suggesting it "isn't even close" is simply lunacy.

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Good arm? Lets be clear here, Russ has a CANNON of arm as with sweet touch on his passes. Kap, I've seen him fling it but don't know if he's got the touch like Russ.

QBR is a joke. Every week there's some huge discrepancy on there; either a QB who should be much higher, or one that should be much lower. Until/unless they release the math on how they calculate it in its entirety, it's not to be trusted.

It surprises me that so many 49ers fans claim Kaepernick's sack & fumble numbers don't matter...

Both are good quarterbacks and young.. both fanbases should be happy they have an excellent future at that position... I read something twitter today about how no QB drafted by the Chiefs has won an NFL game since 1987. WOW

Ask me this question after next years season. To fully compare the two i think kaep needs more games under his belt. Also we will see which one has the "sophmore slump".

I think both QB's are too smart and good to suffer a Sophomore Slump

I believe that the debate comes down to only one question... and only one answer.

Whose name is on the ball?

Just in case you really didn't know, click here.

:rofl: :49ersmall: :rofl:

Excellent trolling of this thread, onanygivensunday. Made me laugh.

RolandDeschain":16j7i7ia said:

QBR is a joke. Every week there's some huge discrepancy on there; either a QB who should be much higher, or one that should be much lower. Until/unless they release the math on how they calculate it in its entirety, it's not to be trusted.

It surprises me that so many 49ers fans claim Kaepernick's sack & fumble numbers don't matter...

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I actually agree which is why I didn't use it in my initial post.

The Sack numbers have alot to do with his line...they are the best in football (by alot) at run-blocking, but pass blocking? Not so much.

As for the fumbles...they absolutely do matter, but it's something that is gonna get fixed. It has mostly to do with Kaep never playing under center at Nevada. all but 2 of his fumbles have been fumbled snaps and one was on a run against the Bills. Only one of his fumbles have been the "got hit and lost the ball" variety since he became the starter.

The cold and rain in Foxborough on top of that didn't help...and yes, I'm aware he may have the same issue in Seattle.

RolandDeschain":245p1qyn said:

Excellent trolling of this thread, onanygivensunday. Made me laugh.

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LOL. Me too.

RolandDeschain":39niwrec said:

QBR is a joke. Every week there's some huge discrepancy on there; either a QB who should be much higher, or one that should be much lower. Until/unless they release the math on how they calculate it in its entirety, it's not to be trusted.

It surprises me that so many 49ers fans claim Kaepernick's sack & fumble numbers don't matter...

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I don't like QBR much either but it is impressive how highly they both rank. It does generally show if a QB has a bad game or a good game. It's not perfect but Aaron Rodgers is gonna have a higher QBR than Josh Freeman.

Speaking of Sando....

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/ ... r-defenses

I admit that I badly wanted the Seahawks to draft Kaepernick two years ago. When Carpenters name was called I was very disappointed but in hindsight, I now understand better the PC/JS rebuild process. I really, really appreciate the abilities of PC/JS to evaluate talent and the fact that they didn't mind taking a chance on a non-typical 5-11 QB with hugh upside. Kaepernick ticked a lot of boxes for me when I researched him two years ago and he is showing in his limited number of starts that he will indeed be a very, very good QB. I was very upset that he was drafted by a division rival, especially SF. I knew that Kaepernick was going to be a franchise QB and would produce well in the NFL and I still believe he's on a path to becoming a very good QB one day. Then, along came this years draft. RW, a 5-11 QB, really?

Russell Wilson came into the season with the Seahawks as a fairly raw rookie, had to compete and split reps through training camp and the preseason, had to learn consistency with his receivers while playing actual games instead of in practice. The coaches wern't sure he could handle the entire offense, so they spoon fed him in the first few games until it became obvious that the kid could handle much closer to a full playbook. The end result for Wilson is that he has improved in every game and just keeps getting better and better as the season winds along. Wilson is still learning and will end up not only as a pro-bowl QB, but one of the top tier QB's in the league for years to come.

If one compares Wilson and Kaepernick on all of their qualities as QB's, they are, at this time, pretty close, however this poll would be better evidence of which is better with a full season used to compare their stats and games. How about next year? They both should be the starters for their respective teams and the comparison would be much more meaningfull.

QBR is supposed to be a measurement of QB efficiency, Wilson's efficiency, so far, has been just great and the good news is that he's improving leaps and bounds every single week. I am starting to think that Wilson's height at 5-11, along with his mobility, is actually an advantage over taller QB's, he can "get lost" behind the hugh linemen playing all around him. Wilson is just starting to show what he can do IMO. Poise? Intangilbles? No comparison between the two.

At this point in time I'd much rather have Wilson leading the Seahawks as he has the smarts, work ethic, football IQ and most of all extreme confidence to be a strong leader. Kaepernick may not ever catch up to Wilson in those categories of QB makeup. San Francisco is lucky to have a good QB like Kaepernick, but the Seahawks are even luckier to have a fantastic young QB and team leader like DangeRuss on their team for the next 10-15 years. We all, as Seahawks fans should be happy because we do indeed have our franchise QBOTF. Kaepernick should be happy if he just continues to develop and maybe one day San Francisco will have the same. So, yes I like them both, but Russell Wilson is going to show the world and I'd take him over Kaepernick - straight up - any day.

Barthawk":1uq5fw8u said:

I read something twitter today about how no QB drafted by the Chiefs has won an NFL game since 1987. WOW

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I believe that's correct.

Todd Blackledge was the last one. He was drafted #7 overall in the famous QB class of the 1983 draft. His last starts for the Chiefs occurred in the 1987 season, wherein he finished 1-1.

Source of Blackedge's career starts for KC... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... acTo00.htm

And here's a source for the list of QBs drafted by KC... http://www.fantasyfootballchallenge.com ... backs.html